WAR Russian Tanks Rolling Into South Ossetia! Hot War!-9/22-#2534

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Nyquist today on invasion...

http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/analysis.html

Russia Invades Georgia
by J. R. Nyquist
Weekly Column Published: 08.08.2008

A s these words are written, Russian mechanized troops are moving against the Republic of Georgia. The Georgian leadership has been taken by surprise. They did not think the Russians would go this far. So the question has to be asked: Why is Russia invading Georgia now? What would a war between Georgia and Russia accomplish?

Some observers have stated that Russia wouldn’t dare invade Georgia. Such an invasion would bog them down in an endless fight against Georgian guerrillas. From the Kremlin standpoint this wouldn’t necessarily be a bad outcome. First, the suppression of ragtag forces is always possible if the invader is persistent and determined. In Chechnya the Kremlin’s determination has been unwavering and brutal for almost nine years. Nobody thinks Russia has lost the war in Chechnya.

During World War II one of Hitler’s generals fretted about Russian partisans. Hitler corrected the general. Fighting partisans was a sign of victory, he explained. It meant that the enemy’s main forces were defeated. It meant that Germany’s losses would be comparatively minor. Only those who cannot keep the field in regular warfare hide in caves and snipe at convoys from the underbrush. In totalitarian terms, the Russian action is entirely rational.

One thing is certain: the Russian invasion of Georgia, if it continues, will mark a turning point. Why are the Russians acting in such a bold manner? Some may speculate that it’s about the price of oil, as the world’s second-longest oil pipeline passes through Georgia. And this point should be considered. But more than anything, the invasion impacts U.S.-Russian relations in a decisive manner. It changes the political atmosphere in Europe and the Far East, in Washington and London and Tokyo. The Kremlin strategists already know that the global economy is headed for trouble. This means growing political weakness within the democratic countries.

Already America has been weakened on many fronts. In strategic terms, this may be the perfect moment for Russia to break with the United States. There may never be a better moment to paint America as an imperialist aggressor. In Washington D.C., however, there is no desire for a break with Russia. American policy-makers have long assumed that Russia is a friendly country. They have assumed that disagreements can be worked out, and peace will prevail. There has been no real preparation for a renewed Cold War. Western politicians pose the following questions: Why should the Russians shoot themselves in the foot? Why should they damage their own economic chances? But these questions misunderstand the real situation.

The Russians see America’s weakness. First and foremost, the Americans are unwilling to bomb Iran. They have upset the Saudis by building a Shiite democracy in Iraq. The Americans have angered the Turks by supporting the Iraqi Kurds. The Americans have weakened NATO by admitting too many FSB/KGB-influenced countries into the NATO fold. The Russian leadership probably feels it is time to tip everything over. It is time to expose America’s weakness. What will President Bush do? By the time you read these words, the White House will probably have issued a statement denouncing the Russian invasion. But will American troops be sent to Georgia?

As for the moral justifications now being mounted by the Kremlin, a few words are necessary. Moscow’s claim of Georgian ethnic cleansing in Ossetia is as cynical as it is hypocritical. One only has to take a look at Chechnya. Russian atrocities in that part of the world are famous. The real issue is the fact that Georgia’s leadership threw off Moscow’s shackles and aligned itself with the United States. Even though there is no formal alliance between the United States and Georgia, the two countries have become close. There are U.S. military advisors in Georgia. The border of NATO is directly to the south. The Russian attack on Georgia may a way of testing NATO. It may, in fact, lead to the unraveling of NATO.

Would the United States send troops to Georgia?

Anticipating events, the Russians have long accused the Americans of attempting to push Russia out of the Caucasus. Russian propagandists have said that Westerners are greedy for oil (i.e., the Baku oil fields). It has even been alleged that America has fueled the war in Chechnya and seeks to destroy Russia itself. This is ridiculous, of course, but Russian nationalism is stirred by such allegations.

Noting the proximity of Azerbaijan to Iran, one ought to speculate on the fact that a war has been brewing between Iran and the U.S. for three years. By invading Georgia the Russians are assuring the Iranians of Moscow’s readiness to confront the U.S. By invading Georgia the Russians are exacerbating the global energy crisis by strengthening all anti-American forces in the Middle East.

The price of oil isn’t merely about oil. It is about food, the U.S. dollar and power-politics. Westerners, however, are always “mystified” when the Russians seem to act contrary to their own economic interest (as if economic interests were the only interests). It is true that Russia has benefitted from high energy prices. More significantly, Russia will benefit even more when the U.S. dollar collapses.

In every strategic equation losses are relative. If you are somewhat hurt and your enemy is crippled, you’ve won a great victory. After all, war is about accepting damage as well as inflicting damage. And war between America and Russia has been the game all along. Only the American side has consistently refused to recognize the fact. In Washington they have deluded themselves about Russia’s long term strategic intentions. And even now they will continue to delude themselves. American pundits will puzzle over Russia’s invasion of Georgia. And perhaps the Russians will pull back, having gained some significant concession from Washington. It is hard to say at this early hour.

If we look at Russian rhetoric and Russian actions over the past nine years we will find a pattern. In recent months the Russians have been acting as if they want to provoke a break with the Americans. They want to put themselves openly and honestly on the other side of the fence. If there is global conflict anywhere in the world the Russian government wants to take the side of America’s enemy. In Venezuela, in Africa, in the Middle East, in the Far East, the Russians want to renew the confrontation between East and West.

And this time they intend to prevail.

Copyright © 2008 Jeffrey R. Nyquist
______________________________

Got God, Grub, Guns & Gold?

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!


- Shane
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Warthog, I have been trying to support that 1,000 US troops In Country and I simply can't at this time. At least I can't support it from any reputable website.

PART of the reason I'm trying is that I remember the number being around 800 just a couple weeks ago.

I can find number quotes of 200, and "a couple hundred" but can't support MY memory (800) or the 1,000 you commented on.

Got a source??? Other wise I'm gonna have to figger it's my spongiform brain again.

c, who reads too darn much...
 

expose'

The Pulse......
The brazen attacks during the night of August 7 to 8 in South Ossetia left Tbilisi with no choice but to respond. Continuing Georgian restraint would have resulted in irreparable human, territorial, and political losses. Moscow’s military and propaganda operation bears the hallmarks of its blitzkriegs in Transnistria in 1992 and Abkhazia in 1993. Georgia’s defensive response in South Ossetia since August 8 is legally within the country’s rights under international law and militarily commensurate with the attacks.

Y2KO,
I don't think you can blame the US for this one... Moscow has been trying to get Georgia back since the early 1990's..
 

Warthog

Black Out
Here's what I found Driver

http://www.democraticunderground.co...z=printer_friendly&forum=102&topic_id=3395923


Go back to previous topic
Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia (VAZIANI, Georgia)
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3395923
3395923, U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia (VAZIANI, Georgia)
Posted by Judi Lynn on Tue Jul-15-08 06:08 AM

Source: Reuters

U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia
26 minutes ago

VAZIANI, Georgia (Reuters) - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008," had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi's bid to join the NATO military alliance.

"The main purpose of these exercises is to increase the cooperation and partnership between U.S. and Georgian forces," Brigadier General William B. Garrett, commander of the U.S. military's Southern European Task Force, told reporters.
 

expose'

The Pulse......
Warthog, I have been trying to support that 1,000 US troops In Country and I simply can't at this time. At least I can't support it from any reputable website.

Chuck - it's in one of the newstories I posted. It says 1000 US troops to Georgia in July, 2008 for training.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
10-Q...

Talk about TIMING....from Freepers

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2058313/posts

Military exercises Immediate Response 2008 finish in Georgia-(Republic of Georgia)
itar ^ | 7/31/08 | Itar-Tass

Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:45:30 PM by Flavius

Planned exercises Immediate Response 2008 finished at the military base Vaziani, which is located 25 kilometers from the Georgian capital Tbilisi, on Thursday. The exercises Immediate Response, which began on July 15, handled “scenarios of interaction in peacekeeping operations in Iraq”. The maneuvers were held under NATO’ program Partnership for Peace. The US financed the exercises, such maneuvers are held every year for the US’ ally countries.


(Excerpt) Read more at itar-tass.com ...
 

Warthog

Black Out
Here's a better one. Folks our troops are in harms way in a bad way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080715...c&printer=1;_ylt=AqImoXJQN6YoTxrgJQp9LSlg.3QA

Back to Story - Help
U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia Tue Jul 15, 5:40 AM ET



One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008," had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi's bid to join the NATO military alliance.

"The main purpose of these exercises is to increase the cooperation and partnership between U.S. and Georgian forces," Brigadier General William B. Garrett, commander of the U.S. military's Southern European Task Force, told reporters.

The war games involve 600 Georgian troops and smaller numbers from ex-Soviet Armenia, Azerbaijan and Ukraine.

The two-week exercise was taking place at the Vaziani military base near the capital Tbilisi, which was a Russian air force base until Russian forces withdrew at the start of this decade under a European arms reduction agreement.

Georgia and the Pentagon cooperate closely. Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military.

Georgia last week recalled its ambassador in Moscow in protest at Russia sending fighter jets into Georgian airspace. Tbilisi urged the West to condemn Russia's actions.

Russia said the flights were to prevent Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili from launching a military operation against the separatist South Ossetia region.

Moscow accuses Saakashvili of preparing to restore Tbilisi's control over South Ossetia and the second breakaway region of Abkhazia by force. Tbilisi says that is a pretext for Russia to effectively annexe large chunks of Georgian territory.




Copyright © 2008 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.


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kozanne

Inactive
Watching how all this stuff is adding up....Looking from a Biblical prophecy point of view....this off Joel Rosenbergs page.

http://joelrosenberg.blogspot.com/

Joel is a brilliant man and a wonderful writer. He has moved in the political circles and knows what he's talking about. He talks about looking through the third lens of Scripture when dealing with world events.

The link produces the following informative and interesting article:

UPDATED: Are Russia and Georgia on the verge of all out war? Tensions have been growing for the last few years, but the situation has deteriorated rapidly in the last twenty-four hours and fighting along the border has broken out. Most serious so far: Russian fighter jets have bombed two towns in neighboring Georgia, killing and injuring innocent civilians, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday. [At 9:35am eastern, Fox News reported that Georgia had shot down four Russian fighter jets....an hour ago, the New York Times reported that two Russian jets had been shot down, something AP reported as well....AP is now also running this headline: "Russia Invades Georgia."....at 10:47am eastern, AP reported hundreds dead in fighting....Sen. McCain has just called on Russia to halt its action in Georgia and withdraw....]


One critical issue to watch as the crisis develops: Who is really in charge in Moscow, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin or newly installed President Dmitry Medvedev? For the moment, it seems to be Putin who is calling the shots and speaking out most forcefully on the crisis with Georgia. Putin, of course, believes deeply in restoring the glory of Mother Russia. He certainly does not want to lose Russian territory and is determined to expand the Russian empire. As I have written about previously, he knows he cannot expand Russia westward because NATO is expanding eastward. Putin also knows he cannot expand Russia eastward because of China. He has claimed ownership of the North Pole, but the real opportunity for Russia is to expand southward, and that is where Putin has been focusing all of his attention in recent years. He is determined to control the Caucuses region, and South Ossetia -- though not a name or place most Westerners have ever heard of much less cared about -- is a key piece in Putin's southward strategy. Interestingly, a new poll finds that four times more Russians think Putin is the most powerful man in Moscow than Medvedev, and tensions between the two men have been growing all summer.


The Russian bombs allegedly fell on Gori and Kareli, two towns near South Ossetia, a volatile region smaller than the size of Rhode Island with a population of less than 70,000. South Ossetia broke away from the Republic of Georgia in the early 1990s and has been controlled ever since by Moscow-backed separatists. To effectively hold the territory for themselves -- or at least keep the territory of South Ossetia from being reclaimed by Georgia, Russia sent military troops designated as "peacekeepers" into the area several years ago and provides economic support to the rebels. Now Georgian military forces have just launched a major attack on those rebels in a bid to regain control of the territory.


Putin warned Georgia that her attack on South Ossetia would trigger a retaliation. Putin did not say precisely what form that retaliation would take, and as of this writing, Russia is denying that it has bombed Georgian towns.


"The Georgian leadership has launched a dirty adventure," the Russian Defense Ministry said on Friday. "We will not leave our peacekeepers and Russian citizens unprotected."


"Heavy weapons and artillery have been sent there, and tanks have been added," Putin told reporters this morning. "Deaths and injuries have been reported, including among Russian peacekeepers....It's all very sad and alarming. And, of course, there will be a response."


The Republic of Georgia is a democratic country that wants to join NATO, remove Russian troops and military bases from its soil, allow the U.S. to build a missile defense system on its territory, and become a full-fledged ally of the West. For those very reasons, tensions between Georgia and Russia have been growing steadily.


In April of this year, under intense pressure from Moscow, NATO decided not to invite Georgia and Ukraine join its 26-member alliance immediately, but promised to revisit the issue soon. This may prove to have been a serious mistake, inviting Russian provocation. Days later, Putin ordered the establishment of semi-official ties with the rebel "government" in South Ossetia, which Georgia charged was a violation of international law. A few weeks later, Russia began sending more troops to the border of South Ossetia, which NATO said was a provocation of Georgia. In July, Russian fighter jets penetrated Georgian airspace and flew a reconnaissance mission over South Ossetia in a show of force -- a warning, really -- designed to "cool hot heads in Tbilisi [the capital of Georgia]," the Kremlin said. The President of Georgia immediately recalled his ambassador from Moscow, all but cutting off diplomatic ties, to protest the aggressive Russian move.


Back in September 2006, as I wrote about at the time, Russia warned of dire consequences if NATO provided arms and continued building strong ties to Georgia. In October 2006, Russian forces blockaded Georgia from air, rail and ground transportation and Putin sent the Russian navy to maneuver off Georgia's Black Sea coast.


In January 2006, two explosions ripped through pipelines carrying Russian oil to the former Soviet Republic of Georgia. The blasts effectively cut off Georgia's main supply of energy amidst a brutally cold winter. The Kremlin called the sabotage acts of terrorism, but Georgian President President Saakashvili, top Georgian officials, and even a number of Western analysts were not convinced. They accused Russian intelligence of triggering the explosions to send Georgia a chilling message: don't join NATO, don't insist that Russia give up its military bases in Georgia, don't keep criticizing Putin as he re-centralizes power and rebuilds the Russian military, don't oppose Russia's application to join the World Trade Organization, stop calling for UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan to “internationalize” peacekeeping operations in the troubled southern Russian regions Abkhazia and Ossetia, and stop promoting pro-democracy movements throughout the former Soviet Union.


The pipelines were eventually fixed, and oil began flowing again, but tensions were never defused. "Russian-Georgian relations have deteriorated to the point that some Kremlin officials are seriously weighing a military operation, which they hope will hand Georgia a military defeat and topple President Saakashivili," wrote Heritage Foundation Russia expert Dr. Ariel Cohen in March. Cohen quoted one veteran Russian foreign policy as saying, "It’s springtime -- a time to start a war with Georgia." Cohen noted that Kremlin political strategist Gleb Pavlovsky actually called for Saakashvili to be assassinated, and that Vladimir Zhirinovsky’s Liberal Democratic Party issued a statement in February statement saying the call for assassination should be seen as a warning to the Georgian leader. “Saakashvili is out of control, and needs to be brought to heel,” said one Kremlin insider, quoted by Cohen. “If Georgians keep quiet and behave, we may even tolerate their joining NATO, but if they are loud, we’ll take measures.”


ALSO WORTH NOTING: Observers of Biblical prophecies such as Ezekiel 38 and 39 will note that directly or effectively controlling Georgia would be key when Moscow one day begins moving Russian military forces through Turkey and into Lebanon, Syria and eventually against Israel

And don't forget, earlier this year Iran and Russia paid a visit to the Caspian Sea nations to talk about oil.....
 

Pass Go

Deceased
Why are the Russians acting in such a bold manner? Some may speculate that it’s about the price of oil, as the world’s second-longest oil pipeline passes through Georgia. Nyquist

Oil, oil and oil. Bush and handlers wont let the Afghani pipeline dream just die, and now this? Whoa.

Driver, I couldn't substantiate that number either. Buried somewhere in this thread someone mentioned Israelis there, too.
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
:eek:

Thank you all for being on top of this, your timely postings and especially your sharing!

Is there any credible information about Georgia having a nuke or is that all speculation?
 

AzProtector

Veteran Member
Here's a better one. Folks our troops are in harms way in a bad way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080715...c&printer=1;_ylt=AqImoXJQN6YoTxrgJQp9LSlg.3QA

Back to Story - Help
U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia Tue Jul 15, 5:40 AM ET



One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008," had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi's bid to join the NATO military alliance.

"The main purpose of these exercises is to increase the cooperation and partnership between U.S. and Georgian forces," Brigadier General William B. Garrett, commander of the U.S. military's Southern European Task Force, told reporters.

The war games involve 600 Georgian troops and smaller numbers from ex-Soviet Armenia, Azerbaijan and Ukraine.

The two-week exercise was taking place at the Vaziani military base near the capital Tbilisi, which was a Russian air force base until Russian forces withdrew at the start of this decade under a European arms reduction agreement.

Georgia and the Pentagon cooperate closely. Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military.

Georgia last week recalled its ambassador in Moscow in protest at Russia sending fighter jets into Georgian airspace. Tbilisi urged the West to condemn Russia's actions.

Russia said the flights were to prevent Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili from launching a military operation against the separatist South Ossetia region.

Moscow accuses Saakashvili of preparing to restore Tbilisi's control over South Ossetia and the second breakaway region of Abkhazia by force. Tbilisi says that is a pretext for Russia to effectively annexe large chunks of Georgian territory.




Copyright © 2008 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.


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It was a 2 week exercise...it's over now, so it would make sense that they are gone back to where ever they came from....
 

DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
Here's a better one. Folks our troops are in harms way in a bad way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080715...c&printer=1;_ylt=AqImoXJQN6YoTxrgJQp9LSlg.3QA

Back to Story - Help
U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia Tue Jul 15, 5:40 AM ET



One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called "Immediate Response 2008," had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

The United States is an ally of Georgia and has irritated Russia by backing Tbilisi's bid to join the NATO military alliance.

"The main purpose of these exercises is to increase the cooperation and partnership between U.S. and Georgian forces," Brigadier General William B. Garrett, commander of the U.S. military's Southern European Task Force, told reporters.

The war games involve 600 Georgian troops and smaller numbers from ex-Soviet Armenia, Azerbaijan and Ukraine.

The two-week exercise was taking place at the Vaziani military base near the capital Tbilisi, which was a Russian air force base until Russian forces withdrew at the start of this decade under a European arms reduction agreement.

Georgia and the Pentagon cooperate closely. Georgia has a 2,000-strong contingent supporting the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, and Washington provides training and equipment to the Georgian military.

Georgia last week recalled its ambassador in Moscow in protest at Russia sending fighter jets into Georgian airspace. Tbilisi urged the West to condemn Russia's actions.

Russia said the flights were to prevent Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili from launching a military operation against the separatist South Ossetia region.

Moscow accuses Saakashvili of preparing to restore Tbilisi's control over South Ossetia and the second breakaway region of Abkhazia by force. Tbilisi says that is a pretext for Russia to effectively annexe large chunks of Georgian territory.




Copyright © 2008 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.


Copyright © 2008 Yahoo All rights reserved.Copyright/IP Policy |Terms of Service |Help |Feedback
NOTICE: We collect personal information on this site. To learn more about how we use your information, see our» Privacy Policy


Isn't this the airbase that the Russians bombed earlier today? I suppose our guys were still there? :eek:


EDIT: Nevermind. I read the post above this one after I posted it.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Warthog check my edit to post 126.

I checked at globalsecurity and Immediate ERsponse 2008 had +1000 US troops, 300 from the state of Georgia (US)...

It wrapped up last evening.. likely JUST as the Sov tanks were rolling into Georgia..
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
Turn off the TV Turn on TB:popcorn1:

Actually, it didn't come from the tube, there is little to no US coverage, rather from a Dutch thread at another site, where he is posting (just not sharing here :shr: thus the thank you to all that are).

So, do you know or not about the nuke speculations?
 

expose'

The Pulse......
It was a 2 week exercise...it's over now, so it would make sense that they are gone back to where ever they came from....

I wouldn't count on it.
We were there for a reason. Our intel knew Russia was on it's way. I wouldn't be surprised if we have much more than the 1000 stated for the "training".

We may never get an accurate number of US troops in Georgia from the media. Especially now.

It's important to know that our troops are there right now in ANY number. I heard a General on CNN this morning state that he knows there are hundreds of US troops in Georgia for training...
 

Hokey

Veteran Member
just...wow.

The Russians will play for keeps, and keep they will. They don't give a damn about other's opinions on it either. You could see this coming for some time.
 

Mark D

Now running for Emperor.
Warthog check my edit to post 126.

I checked at globalsecurity and Immediate ERsponse 2008 had +1000 US troops, 300 from the state of Georgia (US)...

I know there's more than a bit of OPSEC clouding the actual U.S. troop numbers and composition over there. We may not be able to get a really good idea of what's going on over there WRT our guys.
 

MC2006

Veteran Member
STRATFOR

August 8, 2008 | 1738 GMT



Georgian troops fire rockets at separatist South Ossetian troops Aug. 8
The following are internal Stratfor documents produced to provide high-level guidance to our analysts. These documents are not forecasts, but rather a series of guidelines for understanding and evaluating events, as well as suggestions on areas for focus.

Given the speed with which the Russians reacted to Georgia’s incursion into South Ossetia, Moscow was clearly ready to intervene. We suspect the Georgians were set up for this in some way, but at this point the buildup to the conflict no longer matters. What matters is the message that Russia is sending to the West.

Russian President Dmitri Medvedev summed this message up best: “Historically Russia has been, and will continue to be, a guarantor of security for peoples of the Caucasus.”

Strategically, we said Russia would respond to Kosovo’s independence, and they have. Russia is now declaring the Caucasus to be part of its sphere of influence. We have spoken for months of how Russia would find a window of opportunity to redefine the region. This is happening now.

All too familiar with the sight of Russian tanks, the Baltic countries are terrified of what they face in the long run, and they should be. This is the first major Russian intervention since the fall of the Soviet Union. Yes, Russia has been involved elsewhere. Yes, Russia has fought. But this is on a new order of confidence and indifference to general opinion. We will look at this as a defining moment.

The most important reaction will not be in the United States or Western Europe. It is the reaction in the former Soviet states that matters most right now. That is the real audience for this. Watch the reaction of Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Nagorno-Karabakh and the Balts. How will Russia’s moves affect them psychologically?

The Russians hold a trump card with the Americans: Iran. They can flood Iran with weapons at will. The main U.S. counter is in Ukraine and Central Asia, but is not nearly as painful.

Tactically, there is only one issue: Will the Russians attack Georgia on the ground? If they are going to, the Russians have likely made that decision days ago.

Focus on whether Russia invades Georgia proper. Then watch the former Soviet states. The United States and Germany are of secondary interest at this point.
 

Amazed

Does too have a life!
Thanks for the link Jean B. When Joel speaks, I listen. I just yesterday started his new book "Dead Heat". :eek:

Jumpy Frog, prayers for your brother's safety as well as all our Spec Ops over there.
 
Last edited:

Pass Go

Deceased
A little more background about what I believe is the real agenda.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4484849.ece

From Times OnlineAugust 8, 2008

Analysis: energy pipeline that supplies West threatened by war Georgia conflict
A section of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline 30 miles south Tbilisi, Georgia, under construction in 2003

Robin Pagnamenta

The conflict that has erupted in the Caucasus has set alarm bells ringing because of Georgia's pivotal role in the global energy market.

Georgia has no significant oil or gas reserves of its own but it is a key transit point for oil from the Caspian and central Asia destined for Europe and the US.

Crucially, it is the only practical route from this increasingly important producer region that avoids both Russia and Iran.

The 1,770km (1,100 miles) Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which entered service only last year, pumps up to 1 million barrels of oil per day from Baku in Azerbaijan to Yumurtalik, Turkey, where it is loaded on to supertankers for delivery to Europe and the US. Around 249km of the route passes through Georgia, with parts running only 55km from South Ossetia.

Related Links
Georgia 'downs two Russian warplanes'
Russia and Georgia on brink of war
Georgia pounds Russian-backed rebels
The security of the BTC pipeline, depicted in the James Bond film The World is Not Enough, has been a primary concern since before its construction.

The first major attack on the pipeline took place only last week - not in Georgia but in Turkey where part of it was destroyed by PKK separatist rebels.

Output from the pipeline, which is 30 per cent owned by BP and carries more than 1 per cent of the world's supply, is likely to be on hold for several weeks while the fire is extinguished and the damage repaired.

But the threat of another attack by separatists in Georgia itself is very real.

Only a few days before the Turkish explosion, Georgian separatists threatened to sabotage the pipeline if hostilities continued.

The latest eruption of violence could easily spur fresh attacks. The BTC pipeline, which is buried throughout most of its length to make sabotage more difficult, was a politically highly charged project. It was firmly opposed by Russia, which views the Caucasus as its own sphere of influence and wants central Asian oil to be exported via its own territory.

Russia also backs the South Ossetian and Abkhazian separatists in Georgia and relations between Moscow and Tbilisi have curdled into outright hostility in recent months.

The BTC pipeline, which cost $3 billion to build, is a key plank of US foreign policy because it reduces Western reliance on oil from both the Middle East and Russia.
 

Zulu Cowboy

Keep It Real...
Here's another twist to this story...
:popcorn1:
Zulu Cowboy
- - - - - - - -
Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

August 8, 2008

Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.

Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.”

Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province.

In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday.

Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists.

Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed.

Lado Gurgenidze, Georgia's prime minister, said on Friday that Georgia will continue its military operation in South Ossetia until a "durable peace" is reached. "As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations."

DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars.

DEBKAfile discloses Israel’s interest in the conflict from its exclusive military sources:

Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.

Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected.

Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.

These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday.

In recent weeks, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was “defensive.”

This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.

- - - - - - - - -

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material in this post is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes…
 

kozanne

Inactive
This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.

And just what form will this punishment for Israel take I wonder?
 

Mark D

Now running for Emperor.

FWIW, that's not "technically" fighting. That's artillery rockets headed downrange - somewhere. I'll guess and say either the BM-21 truck mounted forty-shot Katyusha unit, or the really heavy SMERCH unit. From the number of rounds launched, AND the sound, I'd go with the BM-21.

BM-21:
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-lGwyySrwY
BM_21_0005_Parada_Militar_2005_cortesia_de_Peru_Defensa.jpg


SMERCH:
Rus_Smerch.jpg
 
Last edited:

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Russia’s Market Collapsed on War in South Ossetia

http://www.kommersant.com/p-13038/r_528/South_Ossetia_market/

Driven down by Georgia’s assault on South Ossetia, the benchmark of Russia’s Trading System dropped 5.06 percent in the afternoon and the MICEX index lost 4.26 percent.
The slight morning decline in quotes gave way to another slump in the afternoon, pointed out Veldega analysts. No miracle has happened despite the positive movement of indices in Europe and the United States.

The best expectations are that RTS will close slightly above the August minimum, i.e. somewhere above 1,764. It is the most optimistic scenario, as it gives hopes for a new breakthrough in the nearest future. Another forecast is 1,700, but that value is the last stronghold of RTS en route to 1,450.

Political risks are at the maximum due to the combat actions in South Ossetia, the traders say. Investors are apprehensive notwithstanding the promising prices of Russia’s market, and the common sentiment is to wait for stabilization. But the situation will further aggravate if Russia’s relations with Europe and the United States finally decay, entailing the capital outflow.

As to the market performance, the decline will continue until the positions of Moscow and Washington are clear. “The depth of decline is difficult to forecast. The level of 1,800 on RTS is a very strong level, we are going down, but we haven’t broken it yet. If it is broken, the intense downward movement could be expected,” said Vladimir Detinich, who heads information and analytic department at OLMA.

Freaking off the financial cliff!
 

Pass Go

Deceased
Another interesting report.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92E9QUO0&show_article=1

Georgia says Russian aircraft bombed its air bases

Aug 8 03:21 PM US/Eastern
By MUSA SADULAYEV
Associated Press Writer


DZHAVA, Georgia (AP) - Russia sent columns of tanks and reportedly bombed Georgian air bases Friday after Georgia launched a major military offensive to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia, threatening to ignite a broader conflict.
Hundreds of civilians were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won defacto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Witnesses said the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was devastated.

"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. "It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."

The fighting broke out as much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were in Beijing.

The timing suggests Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia—a key to his hold on power.

Saakashvili agreed the timing was not coincidental, but accused Russia of being the aggressor. "Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he said in an interview with CNN. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country."

The Russian stock market plunged around 6.5 percent on Friday, apparently in response to the fighting.

Diplomats called for another emergency session of the United Nations Security Council, its second since early Friday morning seeking to prevent an all-out war.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had spoken to the parties involved and was working to end the fighting, State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos told reporters.

Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili told CNN that the troops would be called home Saturday in the face of the South Ossetia fighting.

Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership—a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.

The U.N. refugee agency said Friday that hundreds were fleeing the fighting in South Ossetia and seeking safety elsewhere in Georgia or neighboring Russia.

The leader of South Ossetia's rebel government, Eduard Kokoity, said about 1,400 people were killed in the onslaught, the Interfax news agency reported. The toll could not be independently confirmed.

Ten Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces but Georgia alleges they back the separatists.

Georgia's Foreign Ministry accused Russian aircraft of bombing two military air bases inside Georgia, inflicting some casualties and destroying several military aircraft. Rustavi 2 television said four people were killed and five wounded at the Marneuli air base.

Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending reinforcements for its peacekeepers, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said.

The International Committee of the Red Cross, citing local medical officials, said that Tskhinvali's main hospital had closed down after coming under fire from artillery.

Water, electricity and telephone lines in the city also have been cut off, ICRC spokeswoman Maia Kardava said by telephone from the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.

Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili said government troops were now in full control of Tskhinvali, but the RIA-Novosti news agency quoted Konashenkov as saying late Friday that Russian tanks were firing on Georgian positions in the city.

"We are facing Russian aggression," said Georgia's Security Council chief Kakha Lomaya. "They have sent in their troops and weapons and they are bombing our towns."

Putin has warned that the Georgian attack will draw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.

Chairing a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev also vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

"In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished."

On Friday, an AP reporter saw tanks and other heavy weapons concentrating on the Russian side of the border with South Ossetia—supporting the reports of an incursion. Some villagers were fleeing into Russia.

"I saw them (the Georgians) shelling my village," said Maria, who gave only her first name. She said she and other villagers spent the night in a field and then fled toward the Russian border as the fighting escalated.

Yakobashvili said Georgian forces had shot down four Russian combat planes over Georgian territory but gave no details. Russia's Defense Ministry denied an earlier Georgia report about one Russian plane downed and had no immediate comment on the latest claim.

Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt.

More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain.

South Ossetia officials said Georgia attacked with aircraft, armor and heavy artillery. Georgian troops fired missiles at Tskhinvali, an official said, and many buildings were on fire.

Georgia's president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.

A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.

Russia's Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure." "Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site.

Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and built up ties with Moscow.

Relations between Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushed to join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces to Abkhazia.

The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict.

Georgian officials later blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by shelling Georgian villages in the area.
 

shadowboxer

Contributing Member
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav08080 a_pr.shtml
Eurasia Insight:
GEORGIA: PRESIDENT SAYS GEORGIAN TROOPS CONTROL SOUTH OSSETIA
8/08/08


Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, addressing the nation via television August 8, indicated that Georgia had won the opening battle for control of the separatist territory of South Ossetia. The outcome of the war, however, remains very much in doubt.

Clashes began August 7 between Georgian troops and South Ossetian separatists. [See related EurasiaNet story]. After nightfall, Saakashvili went on television to tell viewers that Georgian forces "completely control” Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian separatist capital, as well as "all population points and all villages" in the territory.

The Georgian leader went on to call for national unity and attempted to cast the military operation as an unavoidable action amid the country’s transformation from formerly Soviet republic to a Western-oriented democracy. "The fight for the future is worth fighting," he said. “If we stand together, there is no force that can defeat Georgia, defeat freedom, defeat a nation striving for freedom -- no matter how many planes, tanks, and missiles they use against us.”

It remains to be seen whether Georgia will be able to consolidate its battlefield gains. Russian leaders have vowed to punish Tbilisi, and Russian leader Dmitry Medvedev told state television that “the guilty will get the punishment they deserve.” A Russian Defense Ministry spokesman announced that Russian troops have been dispatched to South Ossetia, nominally to support Russian peacekeeping troops already on the ground, the official RIA-Novosti news agency reported. In addition, witnesses have reported that dozens of Russian tanks and armored vehicles have moved into the conflict zone, along with hundreds of supposed “volunteers” ready to assist beleaguered South Ossetian separatist forces.

According to Russian military sources, at least 10 Russian peacekeepers had been killed and 30 wounded during the initial Georgian thrust into the separatist-held territory, according to a RIA-Novosti report.

As night fell over Tskhinvali, Georgian officials in Tbilisi and troops in South Ossetia braced for a Russian riposte. There were some early indications that the Kremlin might not limit its response to Ossetia. For example, the Rustavi-2 television station in Georgia reported late August 8 that jets coming from the direction of Armenia bombed a site in the southwestern Georgian hamlet of Bolnisi, not far from the borders with Azerbaijan and Armenia.

Such reports are especially ominous, given that they portend a widening of the fighting. US President George W. Bush conferred with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Beijing on August 8. "We urge restraint on all sides -- that violence would be curtailed and that direct dialogue could ensue in order to help resolve their differences," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters.

Some Georgian officials, including Georgian National Security Council chief Kakha Lomaia, have publicly compared Tbilisi’s current predicament to that faced by Hungary in 1956 and the former Czechoslovakia in 1968, references to invasions carried out by Soviet military forces. Lomaia has announced that roughly half of the approximately 2,000 Georgian troops now in Iraq as part of the US-led coalition were being brought home to help contend with the domestic security crisis.

Although the strategic situation late August 8 seemed favorable to Georgia, Saakashvili sounded as though his side was on the defensive. He conveyed a feeling that the challenges in the coming days will only mount for Georgia. “We will not give up, and we will achieve victory. I call on everyone to mobilize. I declare, here and now, a universal mobilization of the nation and the Republic of Georgia,” he said during his televised address. “I hereby announce that reserve officers are called up -- everyone must come to mobilization center and fight to save our country.”
 

Amberglass

Inactive
US calls for cease-fire in South Ossetia
By FOSTER KLUG – 57 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States on Friday pushed for an immediate cease-fire in a fast-unfolding conflict between Russia and Georgia over the breakaway Georgian province of South Ossetia.
The White House said President Bush discussed the situation with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin while both leaders were in Beijing for the start of the Olympics. And Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called the parties involved in hopes of ending the fighting, and made plans to send a U.S. envoy to the region.
"We urge all parties, Georgians, South Ossetians and Russians, to de-escalate the tension and avoid conflict," said White House press secretary Dana Perino from Beijing. "We are working on mediation efforts to secure a cease fire and we are urging the parties to restart their dialogue."
She said Bush was getting regular updates on the situation and reiterated that the U.S. "supports Georgia's territorial integrity."
In Washington, State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos would not name the envoy who would be sent.
A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity because no official announcement had been made, said the envoy was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Bryza, a specialist on the region. The timing of the trip was unclear because of the changing situation.
At the Pentagon, a senior defense official said Friday that Georgian authorities have asked the United States for help getting their troops out of Iraq.
Georgia has about 2,000 troops serving with the coalition forces in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor after the United States and Britain.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the discussions have been private, said no formal decision has been made on whether to support the departure, but said it is likely the U.S. will do so.
Also, Pentagon officials said Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has reached out to his counterparts in Russia and Georgia, but has not yet connected with them.
The scramble by U.S. diplomats came as Georgian troops launched a major military offensive to regain control over South Ossetia. The fighting prompted a furious response from Russia, which vowed retaliation and sent a column of tanks into the region.
It was the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war that ended in 1992.
A Russian military officer said that 10 Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces, but Georgia alleges they back the separatists.
Vasil Sikharulidze, Georgia's ambassador to Washington, said in an interview, "We are asking our friends, and the United States among them, to somehow to try to mediate and try to persuade Russia to stop this military aggression and invasion of Georgia."
"What we heard is that the State Department and the entire administration is deeply concerned and that they are heavily engaged with Russia trying to de-escalate the situation," he said.
At a luncheon for world leaders in Beijing, Bush talked to Putin about the fighting, a White House spokesman said, without giving details.
Defense Department officials have had some contact with Georgian authorities, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said Friday, adding that the U.S. is monitoring the situation closely. Whitman said Georgia has not requested any assistance from the U.S., but he would not provide details on discussions that have occurred.
He said he does not believe U.S. military officials have had any contact with the Russians.
According to Whitman, the U.S. has about 130 trainers in Georgia, including a few dozen civilians who are all working to prepare the Georgian forces for their next deployment to Iraq. He said all of those U.S. trainers have been accounted for, none has been injured, and there are no plans to pull them out of the country.
He said the trainers are in the Tbilisi area, but would not say exactly where.
Both major U.S. presidential candidates also weighed in.
Republican John McCain said Russia should immediately withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory.
"What is most critical now is to avoid further confrontation between Russian and Georgian military forces. The consequences for Euro-Atlantic stability and security are grave," he said, calling for the international community "to establish a truly independent and neutral peacekeeping force in South Ossetia."
Democrat Barack Obama said Georgia and Russia must show restraint and avoid a full-scale war.
"All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia," he said in a statement.
Associated Press Writer Lolita C. Baldor contributed to this report.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQYe039zkquHxitiI6u4M_TRr_BAD92E9VO00
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I wouldn't count on it.
We were there for a reason. Our intel knew Russia was on it's way. I wouldn't be surprised if we have much more than the 1000 stated for the "training".

We may never get an accurate number of US troops in Georgia from the media. Especially now.

It's important to know that our troops are there right now in ANY number. I heard a General on CNN this morning state that he knows there are hundreds of US troops in Georgia for training...

yep, exposé... totally agree. nothing like having our people pre-positioned for real intel let alone coordinating efforts if/when things really go south.

Mike
 

Amberglass

Inactive
McCain, Obama urge halt to fighting in Georgia

McCain, Obama urge halt to fighting in Georgia
By BETH FOUHY – 38 minutes ago
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — The major candidates for president on Friday called on Russia and Georgia to end their military action and appealed for more diplomatic efforts aimed at avoiding a full-scale war.
Republican John McCain said Russia should withdraw its forces. Democrat Barack Obama condemned the violence and urged the two sides to show restraint.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has long pledged to take back control of South Ossetia, which battled Georgia for de facto independence in fighting that ended in 1992. On Friday, Moscow sent tanks into the region when Georgia launched a major military offensive to retake the breakaway province.
Campaigning in Iowa, McCain told reporters that the U.S. should convene an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council to resolve the crisis.
"What's most critical now is to avoid further confrontation between Russian and Georgian military forces," McCain said.
The U.S. should work with the European Union to put diplomatic pressure on Russia and help establish an independent peacekeeping force in South Ossetia, McCain said.
Obama, speaking to reporters during a flight to Hawaii for a vacation, said he's getting regular updates on the violence. He said it's important for the United States to work with international partners to end the conflict.
"I wholeheartedly condemn the violation of Georgia's sovereignty. I think it is important at this point for all sides to show restraint and to stop this arms conflict. Georgia's territorial integrity needs to be preserved and now is the time for direct talks," he said during a refueling stop in Sacramento, Calif.
Associated Press writer Nedra Pickler in Sacramento, Calif., contributed to this report.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hIKyDCRfs2yd6x3RUxDDUJfqiMiAD92EAAJ88
 

CygnusXI

Inactive
Just a quick snide remark/humor here.....

FALSE FLAG!
The Russian governement spec ops "created" this conflict so Russia could go in and reclaim Georgia, and crack down on civil liberties.
:lkick:
/sarcasm off.

...oh wait thats only America..

^^;

But seriously.
This could get ugly, but I have no doubt whatsoever that the US/UN will stay the hell outta this, aside from some posturing.
 

DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
McCain, Obama urge halt to fighting in Georgia
By BETH FOUHY – 38 minutes ago
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — The major candidates for president on Friday called on Russia and Georgia to end their military action and appealed for more diplomatic efforts aimed at avoiding a full-scale war.
Republican John McCain said Russia should withdraw its forces. Democrat Barack Obama condemned the violence and urged the two sides to show restraint.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has long pledged to take back control of South Ossetia, which battled Georgia for de facto independence in fighting that ended in 1992. On Friday, Moscow sent tanks into the region when Georgia launched a major military offensive to retake the breakaway province.
Campaigning in Iowa, McCain told reporters that the U.S. should convene an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council to resolve the crisis.
"What's most critical now is to avoid further confrontation between Russian and Georgian military forces," McCain said.
The U.S. should work with the European Union to put diplomatic pressure on Russia and help establish an independent peacekeeping force in South Ossetia, McCain said.
Obama, speaking to reporters during a flight to Hawaii for a vacation, said he's getting regular updates on the violence. He said it's important for the United States to work with international partners to end the conflict.
"I wholeheartedly condemn the violation of Georgia's sovereignty. I think it is important at this point for all sides to show restraint and to stop this arms conflict. Georgia's territorial integrity needs to be preserved and now is the time for direct talks," he said during a refueling stop in Sacramento, Calif.
Associated Press writer Nedra Pickler in Sacramento, Calif., contributed to this report.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hIKyDCRfs2yd6x3RUxDDUJfqiMiAD92EAAJ88

Oh good! Now that both McCain and Obama are calling for both sides to stop, I'll sure they will take notice and go back to peaceful negotiations. After all, why would they call for the fighting to cease if they didn't really expect it to help? Surely they wouldn't just grandstand on that issue.....would they?:shr:
 

CygnusXI

Inactive
I am listening to the UN talks live now.


It seems that most of the consensus is for Georgia and the rebels to STOP fighting and negotiate.

Seems they are gonna pull a Serbia/croatia on em.

Yep.
Just let some rebels start fighting and voila!
Get ur own country.

Psst.
Don't tell the illegals.
:rolleyes::kk2:
 
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