ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

jward

passin' thru
Jack Detsch
@JackDetsc

28m

NEW: Russia is “likely” increasingly reliant on indiscriminate artillery fires against Ukrainian cities due to limited targeting ability, and an unwillingness to risk flying combat aircraft into contested airspace: UK Defense Intelligence
 

jward

passin' thru
The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent

16m

Ukraine, Russia stall on peace negotiations. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister said that “negotiations are not continuing.” He blamed Ukraine for not agreeing to Russian terms. Mykhailo Podolyak, advisor to the Ukrainian president’s office, said that negotiations “are paused.”
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Ya, I posted that yesterday morning; will be interesting to see just how long Mikhail lives to regret it, eh?
..were i him i would immediately donate all my toasters, and board up my windows :eek:
If this sort of media coverage out of Russia continues I think it means Putins grip may be slipping. Especially if this guy doesnt fall out his apartment window.
 

jward

passin' thru
Yaroslav Trofimov
@yarotrof

5h

Ukrainians keep saying they need HIMARS to mount counteroffensives and regain lost terrain. Washington wasn’t willing to provide this kind of firepower in the past, but new language out of DOD seems more open to the possibility.
1652788188079.png
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
Ya, I posted that yesterday morning; will be interesting to see just how long Mikhail lives to regret it, eh?
..were i him i would immediately donate all my toasters, and board up my windows :eek:
Today Mikhail fell out of 10 story window, died of covid and during the autopsy they found an Azov tattoo. :D
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Of course the White House and BoJo are not "ready" for a peace deal with Russia, in Biden's case I'm sure his handlers are not ready for all sorts of things to come out about his dealings there and those of some of his associates. I'm not as sure about BoJo, though the issues may be similar or he may have other reasons such as a distraction from his own political problems at home.
France, Germany & Italy Favor Negotiations To End Ukraine War
Tyler Durden's Photo
BY TYLER DURDEN
TUESDAY, MAY 17, 2022 - 01:03 PM
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,

In recent weeks, the leaders of the three largest EU countries by population — France, Germany, and Italy — have all come out in favor of negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow as a way to end the fighting in Ukraine.

Unlike President Biden, French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, and Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi have all spoken with Russian President Vladimir Putin since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24.


AFP via Getty Images
The three European leaders have all signed off on sending weapons to the Ukrainians but have also been calling for a ceasefire. After speaking with Putin by phone on Friday, Scholz wrote on Twitter: "There must be a ceasefire in Ukraine as quickly as possible."

In an address to European Parliament last week, Macron said, "We are not at war with Russia." He said that Europe’s “duty is to stand with Ukraine to achieve a ceasefire, then build peace.”

Draghi met with President Biden last week, and after the meeting, the Italian leader, who previously discouraged talks with Russia, said it was time to start thinking about a peace deal. "We agreed that we must continue to support Ukraine and put pressure on Moscow, but also begin to ask how to build peace," Draghi said.

The German Chancellor's statement is as follows:


"People … want to think about the possibility of bringing a ceasefire and starting again some credible negotiations. That’s the situation right now. I think that we have to think deeply on how to address this," Draghi added.

After the Biden-Draghi meeting, the White House still appeared to be uninterested in negotiations. "We feel the most constructive role is to continue to support the Ukrainians’ hands at the negotiating table and support them militarily," White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said.

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin recently spoke with his Russian counterpart for the first time since Russia invaded, but Secretary of State Antony Blinken, the US’s top diplomat, has yet to speak with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. The two diplomats last spoke on February 15.

Meanwhile, direct Ukraine-Russia talks which had been frequent through the first month-and-a-half of the invasion faltered and then were terminated...


British Prime Minister Boris Johnson shares Washington’s view on negotiations. Johnson recently told Macron in a call that he “urged” Ukraine not to hold talks with Russia and reportedly told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on April 9 that even if Kyiv was ready to sign a deal with Moscow, the West was not.

Other hawkish NATO countries have come out against talks with Moscow. In early April, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki slammed Macron for speaking with Putin, likening it to “negotiating with Hitler.”
 

mistaken1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Western sources say putin won't invade, putin will be deposed, putin is ill, putin is dying, putin is directly controlling troops. And in other news hitlery will win in a landslide and 70 million people voted for biden.

I do not trust western sources or their lapdog media any farther than I can throw them.
 

DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
Western sources say putin won't invade, putin will be deposed, putin is ill, putin is dying, putin is directly controlling troops. And in other news hitlery will win in a landslide and 70 million people voted for biden.

I do not trust western sources or their lapdog media any farther than I can throw them.

Alot of truth to that thought.

However, I trust the Russian media even less, as the government directly controls most of that. It is even currently illegal in Russia to contradict the government line.
 

TFergeson

Non Solum Simul Stare
Alot of truth to that thought.

However, I trust the Russian media even less, as the government directly controls most of that. It is even currently illegal in Russia to contradict the government line.

Correct, it is illegal to contradict the government line. And the russians are far better at propaganda and deception than we are, so I will pose the question: If individuals are "speaking out" and news is "leaking out", could it perhaps be on purpose?
 

DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
Correct, it is illegal to contradict the government line. And the russians are far better at propaganda and deception than we are, so I will pose the question: If individuals are "speaking out" and news is "leaking out", could it perhaps be on purpose?

Yep, could be on purpose or it could be a legit "leak." There's alot of double-reverse top-spin with the possibilities.

There's also a chance that face value is the correct perspective. I do find it very interesting that there is beginning to be public talk in Russia about things not going so well. No matter how one views it, all possibilities are interesting.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
NY Times Blasted For Writing Ukrainian Fighters "Evacuated", Didn't Surrender At Azovstal

BY TYLER DURDEN
ZERO HEDGE
TUESDAY, MAY 17, 2022 - 10:16 AM

The New York Times is coming under heavy criticism for announcing the end of the lengthy Russian siege of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol with the below tweet and headline saying Ukraine ended its "combat mission" in Mariupol on Monday. Objectively... they were "evacuated" to Russian-controlled territory, in a Russian-controlled hospital, by Russian forces.

The "paper of record" managed to completely avoid the reality that some 300 Azov militants surrendered - instead opting to suggest that somehow Ukraine's forces decided to wind down their "combat mission". The headline also emphasized they were "being evacuated".

But then awkwardly, the very first sentence of the Monday Times report indicated after they laid down their arms, the fighters were taken into Russian custody and transferred to pro-Kremlin territory (specifically to Novoazovsk - in the Donestsk People's Republic). So again, they were "evacuated" by their Russian enemies who've captured them.

"Hundreds of Ukrainian fighters were taken by bus to Russian controlled territory," the NYT report said. "Ukraine's president said the combat mission in the city was over, capping some of the longest, fiercest resistance."

By any objective observer's assessment, the surrounded Ukrainians - holed up in the cavernous facility for two months with nowhere to exit - finally surrendered Monday. And yet the "paper of record" along with a slew of other mainstream media presented that somehow it was a Ukrainian "mission accomplished":

"Mariupol’s defenders have fully accomplished all missions assigned by the command," said Hanna Maliar, adding that it was impossible to "unblock Azovstal by military means."

Some social media commenters noted that the NY Times has turned Orwellian newspeak into an art form.

Many others have also long pointed out that Azov battalion's long established unabashed neo-Nazi ideology, which has for years been exhaustively documented, has all but disappeared from acknowledgement in mainstream media.

And journalist Michael Tracy warns of the dangerous pattern concerning such obvious narrative bias when major outlets purport to "present the facts" regarding a complex, rapidly developing war where few correspondents are actually on the ground in battle zones...
"This is why you have to assume that pretty much everything coming out of Western media about the tactical progression of the war is a distortion. They’re operating within an impenetrable superstructure of ideology that prevents the NYT from labeling this a surrender."

NY Times Blasted For Writing Ukrainian Fighters "Evacuated", Didn't Surrender At Azovstal | ZeroHedge
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Mariupol fighters in Russian hands; both sides claim wins
Hundreds of Ukrainian fighters left the vast steel plant in Mariupol where they mounted a dogged last stand and turned themselves over to Russian hands
By OLEKSANDR STASHEVSKYI and CIARAN McQUILLAN Associated Press
17 May 2022, 09:29

Iuliia Loseva, right, and her sons Hryhorii and Denys cry over the coffin of their husband and father Volodymyr Losev, 38, during his funeral in Zorya Truda, Odesa region, Ukraine, Monday, May 16, 2022. Volodymyr Losev, a Ukrainian volunteer soldier,

Image Icon
The Associated Press
Iuliia Loseva, right, and her sons Hryhorii and Denys cry over the coffin of their husband and father Volodymyr Losev, 38, during his funeral in Zorya Truda, Odesa region, Ukraine, Monday, May 16, 2022. Volodymyr Losev, a Ukrainian volunteer soldier, was killed May 7 when the military vehicle he was driving ran over a mine in eastern Ukraine. (AP Photo/Francisco Seco)

KYIV, Ukraine -- Hundreds of Ukrainian fighters, including wounded men carried out on stretchers, left the vast steel plant in Mariupol where they mounted a dogged last stand and turned themselves over to Russian hands, signaling the beginning of the end of a siege that became a symbol of Ukraine's resistance to Moscow's invasion.

Russia on Tuesday called the operation a mass surrender. The Ukrainians avoided using that word — but said the garrison had completed its mission, and that they were working to pull out the fighters that remain.

On Monday, more than 260 fighters left the Azovstal plant — their last redoubt in Mariupol — and were transported to two towns controlled by Moscow-backed separatists, officials on both sides said. Other fighters — their precise numbers unknown — remain inside the ruins of the fortified mill that sprawls over 11 square kilometers (4 square miles) in the otherwise Russian-held city.

Azovstal's fall would mark the complete capture of Mariupol, a significant milestone in one of the bloodiest battles of the war. It would give Russia its biggest victory yet after multiple setbacks — both military and diplomatic. Its troops have suffered costly losses, and President Vladimir Putin is increasingly isolated internationally, with Finland and Sweden announcing in recent days that they intend to join NATO, a major blow to the Russian leader.

Wrapping up Mariupol’s capture would give Russia an unbroken land bridge to the Crimean Peninsula, which it annexed from Ukraine in 2014, and also deprives Ukraine of a vital port. It could also free up Russian forces for fighting elsewhere in the industrial heartland of eastern Ukraine.

But Ukraine sought to turn the evacuation into a symbol for its side, too, highlighting the role that the Azovstal fighters played in boosting Ukrainian morale and tying up Russian forces who couldn’t be deployed elsewhere.

“Ukraine needs Ukrainian heroes to be alive. It’s our principle,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in announcing that troops had begun leaving the relentlessly bombarded mill and its warren of tunnels and bunkers.
"The work continues to bring the guys home and it requires delicacy and time,” he said.

It's not clear what will happen to the fighters — and a Russian official cast doubt over whether Moscow would agree to hand over all of the men in a prisoner of war exchange.

Ukraine Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar said 264 fighters were evacuated from the plant, including 53 “heavily wounded” brought to a medical facility. Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov gave slightly different numbers: 265 evacuees, 51 of them seriously wounded. The discrepancy couldn’t immediately be explained.

After nightfall Monday, several buses pulled away from the mill accompanied by Russian military vehicles. Russian Defense Ministry video of some evacuees did not show any that were armed. In the footage, troops patted down and searched the fighters. Some were on stretchers as they were loaded onto the buses.

Oleksandr Danylyuk, a Ukrainian former national security chief and finance minister, told the BBC that because Ukrainian forces were unable to liberate the plant, the negotiated evacuation to Russian-controlled territory had been “the only hope” for Azovstal’s defenders.

Those remaining in the plant are still “able to defend it. But I think it’s important to understand that their main mission is completed and now their lives need to be saved,” he said.

A full negotiated withdrawal could save lives on the Russian side, too, sparing Russian-backed troops from what almost certainly would be a bloody and difficult battle to wrest the labyrinth-like plant from Ukrainian control.

Danylyuk added that those evacuated should be swapped for Russian prisoners — but Vyacheslav Volodin, speaker of the lower house of the Russian parliament, said without evidence that there are “war criminals” among the plant defenders and they should not be exchanged but tried.

Russia has repeatedly falsely portrayed the wider war as a battle against Nazism, and Volodin again levied that accusation.

Maliar, the Ukrainian official, heaped praise on the fighters but said it been impossible to liberate them "by military means.”

“Mariupol’s defenders have fully accomplished all missions assigned by the commanders,” she said.

Retired French Vice Admiral Michel Olhagaray, a former head of France’s center for higher military studies, said Azovstal’s fall would be more of a symbolic boost for Russia than a military one.

“Factually, Mariupol had already fallen but not symbolically because of this incredible resistance,” he said. “Now Putin can claim a ‘victory’ in the Donbas,” the eastern Ukrainian region that is now his focus.

But because Azovstal’s defenders tied down Russian troops Ukraine can also claim that it came out on top.

“Both sides will be able take pride or boast about a victory – victories of different kinds,” he said.

After Russia's failure in the initial stages of the Feb. 24 invasion to take the capital, Kyiv, the focus of the fighting has shifted to the Donbas but also has turned into a slog.

Strikes have also occasionally hit other areas of the country. The western city of Lviv was rocked by loud explosions early Tuesday. Witnesses counted at least eight blasts accompanied by distant booms. The sky west of the city, which was under an overnight curfew, was lit up by an orange glow.

The governor of the Lviv region, Maksym Kozytskyy, said Russian strikes targeted railroad and military facilities around Yavoriv, west of the city.


The Yavoriv area, which is just a short drive from Ukraine’s border with Poland, has also been the target of previous Russian strikes apparently aimed at slowing the flow of weapons and supplies coming from Western countries. A Russian strike in March also killed 35 people at Yaroviv military training base.

Howitzers from the U.S. and other countries have helped Kyiv hold off or gain ground against Russia, a senior U.S. defense official said, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the U.S. military assessment.

In another setback for Moscow, Swedish Foreign Minister Ann Linde signed the formal request to join NATO that will now be sent to the alliance's secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg. Sweden's move follows a similar decision by neighboring Finland — historic shifts for the countries, which have been nonaligned for generations.

U.S. President Joe Biden Biden will host Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson of Sweden and President Sauli Niinistö of Finland at the White House on Thursday to discuss the two countries’ NATO applications.

Stoltenberg has said the membership process for both could be quick — but President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, a NATO member, has cast doubt on that.

He has objected to allowing Sweden and Finland to join NATO, saying they failed to take a “clear” stance against Kurdish militants and other groups that Ankara considers terrorists, and imposed military sanctions on Turkey.

All 30 current NATO members must agree to let the Nordic neighbors join.

Putin said Monday that Moscow “does not have a problem” with Sweden or Finland as they apply for NATO membership, but that “the expansion of military infrastructure onto this territory will of course give rise to our reaction in response.”

———

McQuillan and Yuras Karmanau reported from Lviv, Ukraine. Mstyslav Chernov and Andrea Rosa in Kharkiv, Elena Becatoros in Odesa and other AP staffers around the world contributed.

———

Follow AP’s coverage of the war in Ukraine: Russia-Ukraine | Breaking News & Live Updates | AP News

Mariupol fighters in Russian hands; both sides claim wins - ABC News (go.com)
 
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CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson shares Washington’s view on negotiations. Johnson recently told Macron in a call that he “urged” Ukraine not to hold talks with Russia and reportedly told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on April 9 that even if Kyiv was ready to sign a deal with Moscow, the West was not.
That statement all by itself should clue everyone in that this Ukraine war, is not about the war but has a far bigger scope in mind.

Because if Ukraine wants to end the war though talks/peace deal/land for peace why should that matter to the west? And if Z does, does that mean the west will go to war with Russia over........what?
 

raven

TB Fanatic
NY Times Blasted For Writing Ukrainian Fighters "Evacuated", Didn't Surrender At Azovstal

BY TYLER DURDEN
ZERO HEDGE
TUESDAY, MAY 17, 2022 - 10:16 AM

The New York Times is coming under heavy criticism for announcing the end of the lengthy Russian siege of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol with the below tweet and headline saying Ukraine ended its "combat mission" in Mariupol on Monday. Objectively... they were "evacuated" to Russian-controlled territory, in a Russian-controlled hospital, by Russian forces.

The "paper of record" managed to completely avoid the reality that some 300 Azov militants surrendered - instead opting to suggest that somehow Ukraine's forces decided to wind down their "combat mission". The headline also emphasized they were "being evacuated".

But then awkwardly, the very first sentence of the Monday Times report indicated after they laid down their arms, the fighters were taken into Russian custody and transferred to pro-Kremlin territory (specifically to Novoazovsk - in the Donestsk People's Republic). So again, they were "evacuated" by their Russian enemies who've captured them.

"Hundreds of Ukrainian fighters were taken by bus to Russian controlled territory," the NYT report said. "Ukraine's president said the combat mission in the city was over, capping some of the longest, fiercest resistance."

By any objective observer's assessment, the surrounded Ukrainians - holed up in the cavernous facility for two months with nowhere to exit - finally surrendered Monday. And yet the "paper of record" along with a slew of other mainstream media presented that somehow it was a Ukrainian "mission accomplished":



Some social media commenters noted that the NY Times has turned Orwellian newspeak into an art form.

Many others have also long pointed out that Azov battalion's long established unabashed neo-Nazi ideology, which has for years been exhaustively documented, has all but disappeared from acknowledgement in mainstream media.

And journalist Michael Tracy warns of the dangerous pattern concerning such obvious narrative bias when major outlets purport to "present the facts" regarding a complex, rapidly developing war where few correspondents are actually on the ground in battle zones...
"This is why you have to assume that pretty much everything coming out of Western media about the tactical progression of the war is a distortion. They’re operating within an impenetrable superstructure of ideology that prevents the NYT from labeling this a surrender."

NY Times Blasted For Writing Ukrainian Fighters "Evacuated", Didn't Surrender At Azovstal | ZeroHedge
They are getting a well deserved R&R after their celebrated victory in a fabulous resort facility catered by the Russians, famous for their hospitality.
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Alot of truth to that thought.

However, I trust the Russian media even less, as the government directly controls most of that. It is even currently illegal in Russia to contradict the government line.
I trust neither of them! Western media has proven time and time again that they will kill stories that don't support their bias left leaning stance, present only "facts" that supports their agenda or outright lie. Remember the days when we were told that Russian media lies??? I personally look to the actions rather than the rhetoric. I also think what I would do in their positions. Human nature is human nature.
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yep, could be on purpose or it could be a legit "leak." There's alot of double-reverse top-spin with the possibilities.

There's also a chance that face value is the correct perspective. I do find it very interesting that there is beginning to be public talk in Russia about things not going so well. No matter how one views it, all possibilities are interesting.

Be careful there. This talk is coming by way of the western media which has their own agenda and marching orders to promote.
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
Azovstal has fallen, Russia now has it's land bridge to the Crimea

The above should be the world's headlines!

Instead, it is being claimed in all western press that the Azovstal steel plant is being "evacuated".

What you want to guess how this would be shouted out by the western pravda if it was the Russians being "evacuated"?

The British did not surrender at Yorktown! They were "evacuated".
The Germans did not surrender at Stalingrad! They were "evacuated".
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Ukrainian MP Lesia Vasylenko tells Mariella Frostrup that Ukrainian troops have pushed Russian soldiers around Kharkiv back over the Russian border. --- Times Radio brings you the latest breaking news, expert analysis and well-informed discussion on the biggest stories of the day.

8:16
Ukraine Reaches the Russian Border | Lesia Vasylenko
182,415 views
May 16, 2022

View: https://youtu.be/YBOOluS2L6o
 

von Koehler

Has No Life - Lives on TB
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3

I think president Zelensky should make it absolutely clear and public that if these guys are not returned , then Ukraine reserves the right to execute every ruZZian POW in Ukraine , and not take POWs in the future .

Reminiscent of der Führer's orders prior to the invasion of the Soviet Union. He ordered that the people and army of Russia be treated without mercy. Neither side were party to the Geneva conventions and treated POWs with inhumane conditions. Russian POWs were either forced into slave labor or simply starved to death.

The Russians were just as brutal. For example, of all of Sixth Army POWs captured at Stalingrad, only a few thousand survived, mostly officers.

During WWII most American POWs were accorded treatment along the Geneva conventions and with Red Cross inspections. Of course there exceptions.

Most countries prefer to respect the Geneva conventions in order that their captured troops be treated likewise. I have seen a few accounts where POW exchanges have taken place between Russia and Ukraine.

Hopefully POW exchanges between Russia and the Ukraine will continue to take place.
 
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