CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Uh oh... someone higher up isn’t happy. Wonder what these guys did?
Were these the same jokers who, in the beginning of January, approved go ahead on a community banquet of tens of thousands of people who brought pot luck? If I recall, they were trying to beat a Guinness Book record. They were aware of the virus when they did it.
There was a case in Hong Kong where 9 out of 19 family members sharing a communal "hot pot" dinner caught the virus. If not shared food, proximity would have spread it to a wide base.
 

rondaben

Veteran Member
Remember, IF this is a bioweapon, someone didn't spend time and $$$ making something with a short incubation period, short shelf life, low lethality rate, single host, one mode of transmission, low rate of mutation, easy to test for, easy to treat, etc. They want bang for their buck.

Maybe design something one can recover from, then have a massive relapse after a long asymptomatic infection time.

Why make just another coronavirus that can be followed with the usual models? We have that now going around.

IF this is a bioweapon its not going to act like anything we've seen before. And its going to continue being a mystery/surprise.

Lots of speculation about if this is a bioweapon or not. Most of this is associated with the apparent rate of infection and reported positives in the west vs. china. More specifically, is there an ethnic predisposition to this virus?

1. Is there a physiological difference in Asian populations vs. White vs. Black? Only a few studies have asked the question and those are very small sample sizes but there DOES appear to be contemporary data that there may be.

2. Is there a genetic difference in the regions most effected that could lend itself to a possible biological target? Yes, there is. Very complex topic but here is the gist. Segments of human DNA tend to be very stable and are associated with certain populations. Changes in this stable segment can produce hereditary diseases. Sickle cell anemia and thalassemias are changes in the very stable hemoglobin. It changes the function of the hemoglobin and has associated problems. Both mutations are much more common in African and mediterranean ethnic groups. Ethnic groups themselves have a haplogroup. For instance, this is haplogroup O-M175. Something that could target this haplotype could, in theory, target a specific ethnic group while leaving the others with either partial immunity or much reduced symptoms. This would have the effect of appearing to have multiple different "strains".

1581388058318.png

3. Is there technology to do this? Yes. Absolutely. CRISPR technology uses RNA editing technologies and could, in theory , be used to create specific targeted viruses. Here is an article about the technology from just this last week:

4. The technology is there, but how else is it used? It is used in something called Genetic Drive technology. Basically, you can insert a gene into a living cell that is ALWAYS passed along to future generations arising from that cell. On a macroscale you could change it slowly, over time, an entire targeted population could be rendered sterile, or have a terminal illness through gene editing. This has already been attempted with mosquitos. Bill and Melinda Gates have invested 75 million in the technology.


5. Is there any indication that this technology may be used as a biological weapon? Possibly. Because of the nature of some governments finding informatio is much more difficult. Certainly research has been done in the U.S. It doesn't take much to read how this could be used for "non-beneficial" means by any nationstate with a necessary technological capacity.




*****READ THIS*****

6. Has there been any other relevant stories? Thats a subjective question, but yes. Most notably from August where USAMRIID, the military bioweapons research facility, was essentially shut down by the CDC for "failing to meet biosafety standards.


Possible virus packages? DARPA Funded.

Pentagon funded in Khazakstan bioweapons lab?

Wuhan virology with ties to USAMRIID

TAKEAWAYS:

I don't know if this is a weapon or not. We may not ever know. I do know the technology exists. I do know that the US has conducted research and is capable of producing a targeted weapon of this type. My suspicions are that China may not have the sophistication at this point, but that likely Russia, Israel, and perhaps a few other European countries do.

Hopefully not too much woo...just trying to learn.
 

jward

passin' thru
Santa Clara County has declared a local emergency due to the coronavirus outbreak, a procedural move that allows the county to leverage state funds and mutual aid resources if more cases of the virus are confirmed locally.

County public health officials say the risk to the general public is still low, and the declaration approved by the Board of Supervisors Monday afternoon does not change that.

“The declaration and proclamation do not signify any increase in risk to the residents of Santa Clara County. These actions empower the County to more effectively respond to the outbreak, seek and utilize mutual aid, potentially obtain reimbursement, and ensure that the County’s public health professionals have all necessary tools at their disposal to keep the community safe,” the Public Health Department said in a statement.

As of Monday, two cases of coronavirus had been confirmed in Santa Clara County. In both cases, the individuals traveled to Wuhan, China where the virus originated. Unless a person has traveled to China, or had close contact with a person who has, county health officials say the risk is low and there has been no evidence of person-to-person spread of the virus in Santa Clara County.


State law allows local public health officers to declare a local emergency for up to seven days, which the county did on Feb. 3. The board’s action Monday extended the emergency declaration by another 30 days.

The declaration allows the county to receive mutual aid resources from the state and neighboring jurisdictions, including potential recovery of costs if the governor also declares a state of emergency, according to the county.



Related Articles
The new virus is a respiratory illness with symptoms similar to the flu — fever, cough, and shortness of breath — that appear two to fourteen days after exposure, according to the Centers for Disease Control.




“All of this can be prevented by people washing their hands and staying home when they are sick,” public health officer Dr. Sara Cody told the board Monday afternoon.





Just what does this protend????

Texican....

Well hopefully it just means they're doing their paperwork and setting up their boxes to be checked in order to be ready to receive any federal assistance that might become available. But, ya don't get disaster declarations for six patients, no matter how many contacts you have to chase down and test...so ::sad shrug:: means they know they're the epicenter or first landing area of this thing in the conus, and they're putting the wheels into motion to deal with the county's health crisis. What that plan entails specifically should be available to us, but my research skills are zero, so-
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Gotta dig for the article from last year that was discussing the Wuhan lab using bat viruses for gene therapy... That something along those lines escaped, make much more sense - employees selling lab animals at the meat market, etc, etc.

EDIT TO ADD:

Found it:
Bat adeno-associated viruses as gene therapy vectors with the potential to evade human neutralizing antibodies
Interesting that there was a 53 year old Chinese geneticist who was educated at Berkeley, CA died recently in China of the virus.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Following quoted for the Ring of TRUTH!!


(Bold mine)


Remember, IF this is a bioweapon, someone didn't spend time and $$$ making something with a short incubation period, short shelf life, low lethality rate, single host, one mode of transmission, low rate of mutation, easy to test for, easy to treat, etc. They want bang for their buck.

Maybe design something one can recover from, then have a massive relapse after a long asymptomatic infection time.

Why make just another coronavirus that can be followed with the usual models? We have that now going around.

IF this is a bioweapon its not going to act like anything we've seen before. And its going to continue being a mystery/surprise.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Vincent Lee‏Verified account @Rover829 13s13 seconds ago

SHANGHAI, Feb 11 (Reuters) - The coronavirus outbreak could trim China's full-year economic growth rate by as much as 1 percentage point in 2020, a senior member of a Chinese government think tank said in comments published on Tuesday.

If the virus estimates - even on the low end - are remotely accurate, a 1% contraction is laughable. My take is that the epidemic is much worse than the Chicoms are letting on and that it's enough to leave the Chinese economy in a smoking hole. Needless to say, knock on effects - aside from viral contamination - will greatly harm much of the rest of the world.

Best
Doc
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'm afraid that for most everybody in the USA, and unfortunately including some right here,
that line in the sand event to initiate self-quarantine, whatever you'd decided it needs to be,
will later be discovered to of been 2-3 weeks late. By the time you see/hear of a confirmed
case in your neighborhood, you'll of likely already of been rubbing elbows with somebody
else that was also infectious for a couple weeks beforehand. That'll suck...

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

auxman

Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit...

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
View: https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1227064637390192640

TIME TO ABANDON SHIP. The Princess Diamond with 136 cases (largest cluster outside ) has become a live Petri dish. In fact, 10 crew also infected, crew also bunk together, +prepare food/serve others. Must evacuate ASAP. ⁦C’mon @WHO⁩ + Japan! Coronavirus Cases Double On Quarantined Cruise Ship. Is It Time To Evacuate Passengers?
Finally, virologists might get some hard numbers regarding infectious nature
and morbidity of this virus, instead of low-ball lying Chinese numbers.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

Allotrope

Inactive
TIME TO ABANDON SHIP. The Princess Diamond with 136 cases (largest cluster outside ) has become a live Petri dish. In fact, 10 crew also infected, crew also bunk together, +prepare food/serve others. Must evacuate ASAP. ⁦C’mon @WHO⁩ + Japan! Coronavirus Cases Double On Quarantined Cruise Ship. Is It Time To Evacuate Passengers?

I think this is a better estimation of what may happen in the Chinese quarantine camps, third world countries, jails, slums, etc, than the data from China would indicate.
 

Oreally

Right from the start
Vincent Lee‏Verified account @Rover829 47s47 seconds ago

Reuters: "Assuming the virus is contained by the end of March, we revise down our 20Q1 GDP growth forecast considerably to 3.6% and the annual growth modestly to 5.3%", Citi analysts said in a note. Citi previously forecast Q1 growth of 4.8% and full-year growth of 5.5%.


haha... tonight i need some of what they are smoking over at Reuters

"Assuming the virus is contained by the end of March, ..."

!!!
 

jward

passin' thru
Finally, virologists might get some hard numbers regarding infectious nature
and morbidity of this virus, instead of low-ball lying Chinese numbers.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane

Those numbers will be artificially HIGH. Perhaps if the two sets were averaged? I dunno. As to your earlier point that we'll have already encountered exposure before deciding to quarentine---- this thing has been global, at least in theory, for most if not all of this year, best as I can tell. So, you're right about the exposure, but so far we're not seeing the overwhelmingly critical patients dying in our hospital halls for want of mechanical supports. (we have patients in halls of our hospitals semi regularly, too, yall recall, right?)
 
I'm on the record on this thread that I think the 24-day incubation is a scare tactic. That seems very, very long. The additional 10 days almost doubles the thing.


Normally I'd be inclined to agree with you, except - this time things are not normal

This nasty rat communist bastard of a virus, runs down to the bottom of your lungs. While there it signals to your immune system, "no big deal." Yeppers dude, actually informs your immune system to not be concerned (HIV component).

Now, super comfy - it replicates and in doing so slowly, industriously gains a phenomenal foothold in the lungs (not to mention traveling in uetro systemically). All the while, with every single breath, twins and cousins leaves your body.

The host (say you again in this example), finally declares an immune response. Never mind it's been three days to the better part of a month. "Oh Crap," says your system, "we're fooked~!"

So now finally, all defensive systems go into overdrive.

Your BP rises, vital passages inflame, snot flows with reckless abandon, relentless coughing ensues. The, "out of breath," feature kicks in.

Now what happens?

You - We need to motate, get out- go find help - Stat!

Perfect, a living host, by the will of the engineer of all this madness - seeks other possible candidates, more human hosts. First responders, neighbors, a cab driver, family doctor, son-in law, nurse Nancy, ...

- Trillions of RNA chop suey viral hell, beyond legion, are now on the move.

All they need is for a room for, 'just one', possible entrance. A finger tip, a shoe, a face mask, a bite of food, a single breath.

Replicate and repeat.


~~~~

And there is how I see this progressing.

----

So - not inclined to create scary. Bad enough without.

Much Love!

===

.
 

Allotrope

Inactive
I have mentioned before, my disdain for government statistics and reasoning. They employ simple, irrefutable, totally erroneous logic. The official corona-virus reports we are getting are the latest example. Another example of government reasoning is:

Nothing is better than a good steak,
A piece of dry bread is better than nothing,
therefore, A piece of dry bread is better than a good steak.

So when they say, the people will be fine (divided into small pieces), we are prepared (them not you),
a vaccine is being developed (distribution is another matter), you can trust them.
You could be a professor of Philology as Dr. Morbius and still be unable to discern their true intent from what they say. I guess, in politics, it is swear in, swear at, swear off, repeat. /Rant off
 

littlechasingbear

2nd gen. prepper
Suspected case being tested in Bozeman Montana of someone who recently traveled to China.

(First attempt at posting an article)



A person in Gallatin County is being evaluated at Bozeman Health Deaconess Hospital after becoming ill following travel to mainland China and will be tested for the novel coronavirus.
It's the first reported person under investigation for the virus in Montana, according to the state Department of Public Health and Human Services.
The Gallatin City-County Health department emphasized that the person is being tested and monitored, but has not been diagnosed with the virus. Results from testing, done by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, are expected sometime this week.
Novel coronavirus is the cause of a respiratory illness outbreak that was first detected in Wuhan, China.

In the United States a total of 12 people have tested positive for the virus, according to the CDC, out of 398 cases under investigation. Cases have been confirmed in Washington, California, Arizona, Wisconsin, Illinois and Massachusetts.
About 42,500 cases of the virus had been confirmed globally by Monday, and more than 1,000 people have died, with the majority in mainland China.
Jim Murphy, the state health department's Communicable Disease Control and Prevention bureau chief, said Monday the state has been notified by federal health officials of about 15 people with a recent travel history in China and is working with those people to monitor their health.


Matt Kelley, the health officer with the Gallatin City-County Health Department, said Monday the risk to people in the county and state is very low, but that he wanted to make information public to avoid the spread of rumors or confusion.
“We wanted to share with people who were expressing concern the information we have and we wanted to do that in a consistent way and in a widespread way,” Kelley said.
Kelley said five people in Gallatin County who have recently traveled to China are working with the state and local health departments to be monitored.
The person who is being tested went to the Bozeman hospital after becoming ill. The hospital is taking special precautions to protect employees and others, Kelley said.


"This is the first person that we’ve been monitoring that has shown the symptoms," Kelley said.
The risk to anyone in the county remains very low.
"The exposure of this person is really small and we don't even know what is making this person ill," Kelley said. "The things we would tell people in Gallatin County today are really the same things we would have told them last week — take care of yourselves and take the same precautions that you take for influenza."
Murphy said that when people travel from China to the United States, those who are being allowed back in the country are screened by federal health workers for symptoms. Those who are not sick and travel back to their home states are flagged for the state health department.

The state then works with local health departments to monitor those people for about two weeks, the longest known incubation period for the virus.
Murphy pointed out about 97% of those who have been tested for the virus in the United States have not had it.
"We're optimistic that our person is going to also test negative and we should know that mid-week," Murphy said.
The CDC has the only lab that can do testing, but Murphy said Montana's state labs should be able to test for the virus by the end of the month.
He said the low diagnosis rate shows the screening systems set up at major airports are working.

"This person, for instance, was somebody that was on our monitoring list and as a result we were able to reach out and make contact and when something changed in the person's health status, a medical evaluation was going to occur," Murphy said, adding that those on the monitoring list generally have restrictions placed on their movement to limit the possible spread of a potential illness.
Montana has had four deaths from influenza this year, with 4,033 cases reported in the state and 186 hospitalizations. All counties have reported at least one case.

There is no vaccine for the novel coronavirus, but the CDC recommends people generally avoid spreading respiratory viruses and the flu by avoiding contact with people who are sick; washing your hands; avoiding touching your eyes, nose and mouth; staying home when you are sick; and cleaning and disinfecting frequently touched objects and surfaces.
 

Mark D

Now running for Emperor.
One of the members over on AR15.com was in the hospital with his sick child when the couple (not just a man) came in wheezing and coughing. They were non-English speaking Chinese. The AR15.com member was posting about it from the ER waiting room. He described them as an older couple, probably husband and wife IIRC.

And yes, we have been expecting that the CDC and .gov WILL NOT be making cases like this all that public.

Well, it seems as if our gov and the CDC aren't being quite open about virus activity here in the U.S., as I just saw these posts in a Facebook group.

View attachment 182437

View attachment 182438
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Chaos Brings Opportunity...And Chaos

I went through my E.R.'s supplies this past weekend, and made a list of items that we source from China. The list is esoteric, and very inside-baseball, unless you're in the trade. I sent it, in a memo, up the chain, so that hopefully administration will source alternative vendors for items which may become Chinesium Unobtanium any day now, until further notice, because between 50-500M Chinese are no longer going to work in the toy factories that make the things I use to make sick people well. So forget the item list, but take away this TL;DR note:

Of 54 major items, 43% (23 items) are sourced from, assembled in, or produced in China. That's nearly half of everything we use, 24/7/365, forever.

Many of them might be sourced elsewhere (and I hope to hell we do it before it bites us in the ass); but many cannot be. The lack of some will get you or someone like you killed if I haven't got it.

Multiply that times nearly 5600 U. S. hospitals, and countless clinics and doctor's offices, just for healthcare, nationwide, and you can begin to grasp the magnitude of this problem.


Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane


Shane, here is the full link and a copy of Aesop's full post including the above: Chaos Brings Opportunity...And Chaos

(34 comments follow)

Chaos Brings Opportunity...And Chaos








So, as I said I would at the end of that post, I went through my E.R.'s supplies this past weekend, and made a list of items that we source from China. The list is esoteric, and very inside-baseball, unless you're in the trade. I sent it, in a memo, up the chain, so that hopefully administration will source alternative vendors for items which may become Chinesium Unobtanium any day now, until further notice, because between 50-500M Chinese are no longer going to work in the toy factories that make the things I use to make sick people well. So forget the item list, but take away this TL;DR note:

Of 54 major items, 43% (23 items) are sourced from, assembled in, or produced in China. That's nearly half of everything we use, 24/7/365, forever.
Many of them might be sourced elsewhere (and I hope to hell we do it before it bites us in the ass); but many cannot be. The lack of some will get you or someone like you killed if I haven't got it.

Multiply that times nearly 5600 U. S. hospitals, and countless clinics and doctor's offices, just for healthcare, nationwide, and you can begin to grasp the magnitude of this problem.

Then, extrapolate that to the entire economy.

Then go from second-order effects, to third order effects.

WallyMart and Horror Freight live and die on importing literal metric mega-****tons of cheap Chinese sh*t, to exist.

So when that pipeline dries up, possibly overnight, you tell me:

What does stock in WalMart or Harbor Freight open at on the market the day after they can't get their goods?

What about fourth-order effects?

Who gets laid off as a direct result?

What happens to the economy, not only for the family of Joe the Greeter and Sally the Checker, but for the folks whose groceries they don't buy, the movies they don't see, the gasoline they don't need to drive to work at the job they don't have any more, and the state and federal welfare dole they swell?



Because some little sh*theads, in some sh*thole, had to have batburgers last year, the economy, perhaps of the world, takes a punch right in the crotch.
And the rot of fiatbux means the house of cards could all come tumbling down.
Possibly in a matter of weeks. Or months. Or hours. Or never.

No one has any effing idea whether or not, nor how fast and far, such a collapse could go.

And it doesn't even require even one single person more outside China to get corona virus, (or whatever-in-hell this is).

That's enough rose-colored glasses for one morning.
Think it over yourself.

And have a happy day.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Santa Clara County has declared a local emergency due to the coronavirus outbreak, a procedural move that allows the county to leverage state funds and mutual aid resources if more cases of the virus are confirmed locally.

County public health officials say the risk to the general public is still low, and the declaration approved by the Board of Supervisors Monday afternoon does not change that.

“The declaration and proclamation do not signify any increase in risk to the residents of Santa Clara County. These actions empower the County to more effectively respond to the outbreak, seek and utilize mutual aid, potentially obtain reimbursement, and ensure that the County’s public health professionals have all necessary tools at their disposal to keep the community safe,” the Public Health Department said in a statement.

As of Monday, two cases of coronavirus had been confirmed in Santa Clara County. In both cases, the individuals traveled to Wuhan, China where the virus originated. Unless a person has traveled to China, or had close contact with a person who has, county health officials say the risk is low and there has been no evidence of person-to-person spread of the virus in Santa Clara County.


State law allows local public health officers to declare a local emergency for up to seven days, which the county did on Feb. 3. The board’s action Monday extended the emergency declaration by another 30 days.

The declaration allows the county to receive mutual aid resources from the state and neighboring jurisdictions, including potential recovery of costs if the governor also declares a state of emergency, according to the county.



Related Articles
The new virus is a respiratory illness with symptoms similar to the flu — fever, cough, and shortness of breath — that appear two to fourteen days after exposure, according to the Centers for Disease Control.




“All of this can be prevented by people washing their hands and staying home when they are sick,” public health officer Dr. Sara Cody told the board Monday afternoon.







Well hopefully it just means they're doing their paperwork and setting up their boxes to be checked in order to be ready to receive any federal assistance that might become available. But, ya don't get disaster declarations for six patients, no matter how many contacts you have to chase down and test...so ::sad shrug:: means they know they're the epicenter or first landing area of this thing in the conus, and they're putting the wheels into motion to deal with the county's health crisis. What that plan entails specifically should be available to us, but my research skills are zero, so-
I used to be a County Supervisor (for a much smaller in pop. CA county.) During disasters, we would tally the expenditures and losses (for fire or flood or crops) and once that exceeded a certain amount, we could declare an emergency and ask for state assistance and funds. At a certain level, the state could declare an emergency and call upon the fed's to kick in. I imagine it is the same for health disasters, although we never had one in my 12 years. The declaration lasts for so many days then you have to renew it. Usually, a federal declaration would include all adjacent counties,

I know my county (adjacent) has its EOC (Emergency Operations Center) operational and that is costing the county money, whether we have a confirmed case or not.

I am relatively near San Francisco. It has a large Chinese population and an International Airport - yet not one case?

I am still concerned that we are only testing people who have traveled to China or had direct contact with someone who has. People in other countries, such as Singapore, Thailand, etc. are now getting the disease and there would be no testing if you had contact with them or some surface they touched or coughed on etc. I suspect there are many more carriers out there undetected. 13 cases seems absurd to me, given international traffic and the rate this has spread on the cruise ships. I wonder if the CDC wants this masked by the regular flu cases and just let it flow through the population because they know they can't stop it.

It will cull the elderly unproductive Boomer Bump population which is a drag on Medicare and SS and perhaps alleviate some of the pressures on Millennials and their failure to launch and reproduce. Sinister thinking, but I wouldn't put it past them.

I guess Australia has actually replicated an active virus. Perhaps we can come up with a speedy antibody test for the field like they have for HIV.
 

jward

passin' thru
further confirmation that the 13th case in CA was from the evac and not in the general population there. Good news always welcome
Toro, Ana (CDC/OD/OADC) <pvq1@cdc.gov>

Mon 2/10/2020 10:19 PM
CDC Confirms 13th Case of 2019 Novel Coronavirus

CDC today confirmed another infection with 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in the United States that was detected in California. The patient who was under a federal quarantine order recently returned from Wuhan, China, where an outbreak of respiratory illness caused by this novel coronavirus has been ongoing since December 2019. This brings the total of number of 2019-nCoV cases in the United States to 13.


CDC is conducting a thorough contact investigation of the person who has tested positive to determine contacts and to assess if those contacts had high risk exposures.


For the latest information on the outbreak, visit CDC’s Novel Coronavirus 2019 website.


Yes, it was one of the evacuees from Wuhan.


It is in San Diego. MCAS Miramar






Thanks,

Ana

 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Shane, here is the full link and a copy of Aesop's full post including the above: Chaos Brings Opportunity...And Chaos

(34 comments follow)

Chaos Brings Opportunity...And Chaos








So, as I said I would at the end of that post, I went through my E.R.'s supplies this past weekend, and made a list of items that we source from China. The list is esoteric, and very inside-baseball, unless you're in the trade. I sent it, in a memo, up the chain, so that hopefully administration will source alternative vendors for items which may become Chinesium Unobtanium any day now, until further notice, because between 50-500M Chinese are no longer going to work in the toy factories that make the things I use to make sick people well. So forget the item list, but take away this TL;DR note:


Many of them might be sourced elsewhere (and I hope to hell we do it before it bites us in the ass); but many cannot be. The lack of some will get you or someone like you killed if I haven't got it.

Multiply that times nearly 5600 U. S. hospitals, and countless clinics and doctor's offices, just for healthcare, nationwide, and you can begin to grasp the magnitude of this problem.

Then, extrapolate that to the entire economy.

Then go from second-order effects, to third order effects.

WallyMart and Horror Freight live and die on importing literal metric mega-****tons of cheap Chinese sh*t, to exist.

So when that pipeline dries up, possibly overnight, you tell me:

What does stock in WalMart or Harbor Freight open at on the market the day after they can't get their goods?

What about fourth-order effects?

Who gets laid off as a direct result?

What happens to the economy, not only for the family of Joe the Greeter and Sally the Checker, but for the folks whose groceries they don't buy, the movies they don't see, the gasoline they don't need to drive to work at the job they don't have any more, and the state and federal welfare dole they swell?



Because some little sh*theads, in some sh*thole, had to have batburgers last year, the economy, perhaps of the world, takes a punch right in the crotch.
And the rot of fiatbux means the house of cards could all come tumbling down.
Possibly in a matter of weeks. Or months. Or hours. Or never.

No one has any effing idea whether or not, nor how fast and far, such a collapse could go.

And it doesn't even require even one single person more outside China to get corona virus, (or whatever-in-hell this is).

That's enough rose-colored glasses for one morning.
Think it over yourself.

And have a happy day.
I'd initially just grabbed and shared the top half (about medical supply shortages) for my AirLife Paramedic son.
Thanks for posting the rest here Night Driver.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

jward

passin' thru
I used to be a County Supervisor (for a much smaller in pop. CA county.) During disasters, we would tally the expenditures and losses (for fire or flood or crops) and once that exceeded a certain amount, we could declare an emergency and ask for state assistance and funds. At a certain level, the state could declare an emergency and call upon the fed's to kick in. I imagine it is the same for health disasters, although we never had one in my 12 years. The declaration lasts for so many days then you have to renew it. Usually, a federal declaration would include all adjacent counties,

I know my county (adjacent) has its EOC (Emergency Operations Center) operational and that is costing the county money, whether we have a confirmed case or not.

I am relatively near San Francisco. It has a large Chinese population and an International Airport - yet not one case?

I am still concerned that we are only testing people who have traveled to China or had direct contact with someone who has. People in other countries, such as Singapore, Thailand, etc. are now getting the disease and there would be no testing if you had contact with them or some surface they touched or coughed on etc. I suspect there are many more carriers out there undetected. 13 cases seems absurd to me, given international traffic and the rate this has spread on the cruise ships. I wonder if the CDC wants this masked by the regular flu cases and just let it flow through the population because they know they can't stop it.

It will cull the elderly unproductive Boomer Bump population which is a drag on Medicare and SS and perhaps alleviate some of the pressures on Millennials and their failure to launch and reproduce. Sinister thinking, but I wouldn't put it past them.

I guess Australia has actually replicated an active virus. Perhaps we can come up with a speedy antibody test for the field like they have for HIV.

I hoped you would speak to this. As to testing, I just do not know where one would begin, with limited resources, to begin the widespread tests. We DO need them, if for no other reason than to give our numbers some real relationship to reality- which we cannot have without a sense of how many mild, moderate, and recovered cases walk amongst us without ever seeking care.

As a practical matter, I just do not know what else might be done this early on to best meet the needs of our populations.

ETA: I hope you're feeling better- this must be surreal to care for yourself and grandbabies while chasing this monster down digitally : (
As to your point about the lack of diagnosed cases, and how many must be out there- do you not also draw some hope from that? We might hide or not know diagnosis, but I do not think in America we could miss a large die off, and that simply is not happening here, at this point. Even though we've had time enough to start hearing the rumbles, were such a thing occurring...
 
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I listened to NPR on the radio going to work this morning (my form of oppo research). They had a segment from Thailand where the jist was they didn't want Chinese tourists bringing china flu to their town and they should just stay away.
NPR playing that (xenophobic :)) story in prime time told me that the MSM is about to start talking about this and the time for final obvious preps is closing quickly.
15 hr 10 min ago
After being turned away by three countries, the Westerdam will finally dock on Thursday
From CNN’s Mick Krever in Tokyo


The Holland America Westerdam cruise ship is pictured passing through Glacier Bay, Alaska in July 2019.
The Holland America Westerdam cruise ship is pictured passing through Glacier Bay, Alaska in July 2019. Credit: Tim Rue/Bloomberg/Getty Images

The Westerdam cruise ship -- which has more than 2,000 people on board -- will dock this Thursday in the Thai city of Laem Chabang. It was previously denied entry to Japan, the Philippines and Taiwan as countries closed their ports to cruise ships over coronavirus fears.

The vessel, operated by Holland America, was scheduled to end its itinerary in Yokohama, Japan, on February 15, but was refused entry at any Japanese port despite having no confirmed cases of the coronavirus on board.
Holland America says the guests will receive a 100% refund for the current trip as well as “100% Future Cruise Credit.”
Passengers will be allowed to disembark the ship at Laem Chabang, which is around 50 miles from Bangkok.

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Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
I hear ya
I'm afraid that for most everybody in the USA, and unfortunately including some right here,
that line in the sand event to initiate self-quarantine, whatever you'd decided it needs to be,
will later be discovered to of been 2-3 weeks late. By the time you see/hear of a confirmed
case in your neighborhood, you'll of likely already of been rubbing elbows with somebody
else that was also infectious for a couple weeks beforehand. That'll suck...

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
, I hear ya. My story. A well known Christian man and his Chinese wife are closely tied to the U of I campus. I48 chinese were home for the Christmas break. She is very involved with the Chinese students....he could easily have been exposed by her. And I by him. Small world and all that. It has played games with my mind. Sunday night I was in close contact with sixty kids, twenty adults at church. High fiving, fist bumping.....and praying. I see this coming to an abrupt end.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
ONE of the interesting things we can (or will be able to see) is a legit R(naught) for nCoV 2019 from the effects on the tour ships.

This will be a HUGE help (even if it just legitimizes the bad news) so we will have a decent understanding of what we have in our hands. Little tough to have 21st Century expectations when your tools are 19th Century State of the Art, which up to about last Thursday was where we were.

This also strongly supports a number of people's point that we REALLY CAN NOT SAy what we got for another week or 10 days.

Consequently, use of 200 proof hair gel with matches is NOT warranted at this time. Don't LOSE the 200 Proof hair gel, just don't USE it yet.

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Rondaben, I wasn't suggesting that there was anything in the post I quoted to suggest your post was out of the money. AFAIK, your post is a 10-ring hit.
 

auxman

Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit...

northern watch

TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3‏ @EndGameWW3 8m8 minutes ago

The chief executive of Hong Kong won't close all the borders with China and Hong Kong will pay for this but this is a major travel and international business hub to that could bring this virus around the world.
 

auxman

Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit...

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I hear ya

, I hear ya. My story. A well known Christian man and his Chinese wife are closely tied to the U of I campus. I48 chinese were home for the Christmas break. She is very involved with the Chinese students....he could easily have been exposed by her. And I by him. Small world and all that. It has played games with my mind. Sunday night I was in close contact with sixty kids, twenty adults at church. High fiving, fist bumping.....and praying. I see this coming to an abrupt end.
Oh, cripe, really hate to hear any story like that.

Making all this conjecture suddenly scary real.

Hoping/praying, Ractivist, you've dodged that bullet.

- Shane
 

auxman

Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit...
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