cat killer
Senior Member
Jimmy Carter is still around maybe he’ll pardon the draft dodgers again.
Hopefully Biden will be long gone but I would give odds he would do the it.
CHAT What If The Draft Is Brought Back?
- Thread starter Buick Electra
- Start date
Hopefully Biden will be long gone but I would give odds he would do the it.
Ractivist
Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
The response here will be like wise across the nation. Hence they will recruit those mostly in shape illegal aliens of fighting age who seemed to show up at just the right time.... there's a problem or two associated with that scenario.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well on that thought line we could do an American foreign legion. And basically say if you are here without proper papers, you either serve or leave, regardless of age. Then just use the idiots in meat grinders. A lot of foreigners will flee at that point with the propsect of dying if they come here.
I don't think it will go well at all. The current generation 18-25 grew up watching the forever wars we were in and seeing what the government did. I know people give crap to Gen Z, but the ones I know have a good grasp on the world and are very skeptical of what the government and the older generations keep preaching and isn't working. I think most just wouldn't show up for the draft.
I've seen here, on other forums, and vets I know they don't want their children serving. If a draft came they would most likely try to go in place of their kids. The whole fact that generational military families are now saying "hell no" speaks volumes to me. Unless the mainland USA is invaded people aren't going.
One X factor that both sides have and hasn't, IMO, been explored yet is the fact that we have the internet. The new generation grew up with having instant communication. I think it is harder for the government to white wash certain things.
As others have said. Why are we going to go to fight a war in a foreign land, for what?
I have thought that the politicians can be the first to go. I don't care if it is a 85 year old congress person in a wheelchair. They can go to basic training with the very people they want to send to war. Here is your rifles and shovel. No special status or treated any different.
I believe that the draft falls into some categories listed in the 13th amendment. The draft is a form of slavery and indentured servitude. A drafted person can't leave or has free choice to not be there. For me it comes down to freedom of choice. The government is forcing the drafted person to be there at gun point (if the cops or feds come to arrest that person they will have guns) It is kidnapping. Pretty simple to me.
Text of 13 Amendment to the constitution of the USA
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/
Thirteenth Amendment
Section 1
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
I've seen here, on other forums, and vets I know they don't want their children serving. If a draft came they would most likely try to go in place of their kids. The whole fact that generational military families are now saying "hell no" speaks volumes to me. Unless the mainland USA is invaded people aren't going.
One X factor that both sides have and hasn't, IMO, been explored yet is the fact that we have the internet. The new generation grew up with having instant communication. I think it is harder for the government to white wash certain things.
As others have said. Why are we going to go to fight a war in a foreign land, for what?
I have thought that the politicians can be the first to go. I don't care if it is a 85 year old congress person in a wheelchair. They can go to basic training with the very people they want to send to war. Here is your rifles and shovel. No special status or treated any different.
I believe that the draft falls into some categories listed in the 13th amendment. The draft is a form of slavery and indentured servitude. A drafted person can't leave or has free choice to not be there. For me it comes down to freedom of choice. The government is forcing the drafted person to be there at gun point (if the cops or feds come to arrest that person they will have guns) It is kidnapping. Pretty simple to me.
Text of 13 Amendment to the constitution of the USA
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-13/
Thirteenth Amendment
Section 1
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
223shootersc
Veteran Member
Unless a major city or cities get nuked.....and everyone goes UBER PATRIOTIC, like after Pearl Harbor or 9/11, it will never happen. The American people are fed up with the government, don't trust them and certainly will not tolerate a draft of ANY KIND.
Besides the fact that what's available to be drafted is in pretty PISS POOR SHAPE, physically, emotionally, intellectually and pretty much every other point of measurement. Heck half of them don't even know what gender they are.
I can just see them going through boot camp, a WAR TIME boot camp! You can't take a time out or tell your Drill Instructor to stop yelling at you and calling you names.I can just see a "Karen" or "Ken" back talking a REAL D.I.
And what about all those "helicopter" parents. They'll probably want to go to boot camp with their little tender babies.
Nope, I just don't see it happening, not without something really MAJOR going down. A Pearl Harbor attack or a 9/11 or something bigger.
Sad but TRUTH!
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Conscription was a bit of a grey area. Basically federal service falls outside of the constitution. If someone really brings up the case and makes a proper argument, yes it can get ruled unconstitutional by the supremes. But that does not mean the feds can't do a back door way saying no student loans or other perks if you don't serve...
F’k this bloodsucking Communist cadre of criminal filth that’s in power today. By all rights a few million patriots should arm-up, march on DC, and kill them all. And I’m not just talking about the “elected” Communists. The entire Deep State needs to be dragged out and shot, and their bodies left to bloat where they've fallen.
Rat f’king bastards.
I hope and pray the only draft that would be obeyed would be one that also wouldn't be needed...a truly righteous, and existential war. One for our rights and freedoms, whether against foreign or domestic enemies.
In that event, if we need a draft to have enough Americans to fight... We've lost already.
Summerthyme
In that event, if we need a draft to have enough Americans to fight... We've lost already.
Summerthyme
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Hognutz
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hell yea!
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Just started reading this thread, but before I got to far away, just wanted to say:
I did.
And at No. 35 pulled my birthday.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Our "dressing out for PT" consisted of taking our Fatigue jacket off, and folding it up on the ground. We were still dressed out in our bloused fatigue pants, white T-shirt, and combat boots, with high top for 8" boots wool socks. Ran two miles. Push ups, sit ups and the dreaded leg lifts. Almost as bad as doing a dying cockroach as punishment. I'd rather do a hundred pushups.
And we stayed in those clothes all day long. Which didn't matter really since we ran to the rifle range with the jackets on, in august in Fort Polk, LA.
My son was in, they issued shorts, running t's and jogging shoes, and white crew socks.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Back in those days when you enlisted as I did, with a draft number of 35, I didn't want to go to Vietnam, the Army offered a 16 month guarantee at a place of your choosing. And a guarantee of a job of your choice. I choose Ft. Hood, and a Records Clerk.
Right before my 16 months was up, and everyone knew where they were going when it was up, Nixon started recalling troops, and flooded the states with soldiers. They were offering all kinds of early outs after that.
Stayed at Hood my entire enlistment, except for Basic and AIT at Polk.
Enjoyed my enlistment. Especially the part about not getting shot at. Worked in a office job from 7-5 M-F. Only went to the field one time, and that was down to San Antonio in an old airport, and took the PX and bunk beds with us. We formed a Division rear and you know the generals and full birds couldn't be without their accessories.
My work as a Morning Report Monitor generally ended by 1:00 but stayed in the office to help company clerks, and commanders with problems, which included generals and full birds. But usually anytime I needed to take care of personal business or run to the PX my NCOIC let me go. And my NCOIC took care of us, and no one, not even one with stars could come in there and jump on any of us. He would stand between us, and tell them if you have a problem with any of my people you tell me, and I'll handle it.
That job doesn't exist anymore and I helped phase it out.
That is not the Army of today. Even though I know men in the military right now. I would not recommend it as a fighting machine, due to the leadership. A job like something in my line of work, may not be so bad, since it was not a front line job, and would always be a division rear job. No one should ever think just because the Army is not in a war, it will never be in a war, and it's just a job like any other, is badly mistaken.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
As for the OP.
first off the draft is legal and has been legal ever since the Civil War.. If it wasn't legal, it would have been addressed by now. Law suits, class action, Supremes etc. All done and paid for. Draft dodgers in the Civil War were shot. Not considered murder.
However just because they can, doesn't mean they should. It will be a down right total mess. DEI, Trannies not being deployable, tons of deferments, women draftees, etc...
If they do impose it, just telling some one else not to go, when it is their life that will be disrupted, isn't the right advice either. Sitting down with them and going over all the problems and choices is the best one can do. It's their life and their choice.
BTW they don't come knocking on your door to deliver a draft notice either. It comes in the mail. Not reporting, if they follow the Vietnam policy, is when they come to your door. The helmet they will be wearing will have a white band with MP printed on the side.
first off the draft is legal and has been legal ever since the Civil War.. If it wasn't legal, it would have been addressed by now. Law suits, class action, Supremes etc. All done and paid for. Draft dodgers in the Civil War were shot. Not considered murder.
However just because they can, doesn't mean they should. It will be a down right total mess. DEI, Trannies not being deployable, tons of deferments, women draftees, etc...
If they do impose it, just telling some one else not to go, when it is their life that will be disrupted, isn't the right advice either. Sitting down with them and going over all the problems and choices is the best one can do. It's their life and their choice.
BTW they don't come knocking on your door to deliver a draft notice either. It comes in the mail. Not reporting, if they follow the Vietnam policy, is when they come to your door. The helmet they will be wearing will have a white band with MP printed on the side.
kyrsyan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I have a bunch of mixed thoughts on this. The draft was threatened when I was just starting college. The draft didn't get started but a bunch of long retired military people I knew got called back up. Long past the time of reserves.
Nowadays... one thought is that it would end up thinning the generation that they are losing control of. And most of the ones thinned out would be the ones that are a problem for them. And realize, a draft now would pull women as well. 99% of draft would be Millennial and Gen Z. I think this would backfire on them but it doesn't mean they won't try it.
Another thought is that they are hoping that a full on war would boost the economy, or at least give them something "patriotic" to point to and blame for everything. They haven't learned from Ukraine and the signs are there that they are hoping to use Israel as the next ignition point.
What the left doesn't realize is that they are just as much cannon fodder because they are becoming a problem that is out of control and making the controllers look bad.
As far as not surviving boot, . Boot will handle them and line them up like they are meant to. It's the front lines that will take care of the rest. Once you reach a place where surviving from day to day takes precedence over your "feelings", and you get to see what the rest of the world will do to those who insist on pushing their ideological views, you wake up real fast.
Pampering will disappear quickly if we are pushed to a draft. The first groups through will lose a lot of people. And then sure as stuff rolls downhill, the loosening of the boot camp regs will reverse. Because those people represent money and time to the military. And the public will raise a godawful ruckus about the loss of their family members. And it will make a massive mess.
But... there has also been a change in warfare. So it might take a while to occur because a lot of those folks will be controlling drones. Or computer hackers. Or other, less dangerous physically positions.
Nowadays... one thought is that it would end up thinning the generation that they are losing control of. And most of the ones thinned out would be the ones that are a problem for them. And realize, a draft now would pull women as well. 99% of draft would be Millennial and Gen Z. I think this would backfire on them but it doesn't mean they won't try it.
Another thought is that they are hoping that a full on war would boost the economy, or at least give them something "patriotic" to point to and blame for everything. They haven't learned from Ukraine and the signs are there that they are hoping to use Israel as the next ignition point.
What the left doesn't realize is that they are just as much cannon fodder because they are becoming a problem that is out of control and making the controllers look bad.
As far as not surviving boot, . Boot will handle them and line them up like they are meant to. It's the front lines that will take care of the rest. Once you reach a place where surviving from day to day takes precedence over your "feelings", and you get to see what the rest of the world will do to those who insist on pushing their ideological views, you wake up real fast.
Pampering will disappear quickly if we are pushed to a draft. The first groups through will lose a lot of people. And then sure as stuff rolls downhill, the loosening of the boot camp regs will reverse. Because those people represent money and time to the military. And the public will raise a godawful ruckus about the loss of their family members. And it will make a massive mess.
But... there has also been a change in warfare. So it might take a while to occur because a lot of those folks will be controlling drones. Or computer hackers. Or other, less dangerous physically positions.
Elza
Veteran Member
Ft. Polk? Yuck. At least I got to take basic at Ft. Ord, CA. The rest of what you wrote applied to us but at least we had nice weather and fewer bugs.
Weps
Veteran Member
Or maybe 90% of today's young men are smart enough to realize the troupe of "patriotism" is blatant propaganda.
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33dInd
Veteran Member
Based on what I saw from the Vietnam war let me be first in line to help draft dodgers escape the country.
The suffering of our surviving soldiers male and female was immense when the survivors returned home. And look what happened in Afghanistan. Anybody that supports this war machine needs their head examined.
I saw my half brother in chains in a courtroom. He quit a great job at the telephone Co. Showed up for the draft, failed the physical due to an old hernia injury, left without his job and the govt messed up their records and showed him as being a draft dodger. The FBI came to my Mom's house looking for him, pounded on door to the bathroom where I was taking a shower, pulled me out searched the whole house and left my poor Mom a wreck. If it wasn't for the fact his famous artist brother was wealthy he probably would have went to jail.
I spit on our government.
The suffering of our surviving soldiers male and female was immense when the survivors returned home. And look what happened in Afghanistan. Anybody that supports this war machine needs their head examined.
I saw my half brother in chains in a courtroom. He quit a great job at the telephone Co. Showed up for the draft, failed the physical due to an old hernia injury, left without his job and the govt messed up their records and showed him as being a draft dodger. The FBI came to my Mom's house looking for him, pounded on door to the bathroom where I was taking a shower, pulled me out searched the whole house and left my poor Mom a wreck. If it wasn't for the fact his famous artist brother was wealthy he probably would have went to jail.
I spit on our government.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yeah if it wasn't for Ft. Ord it would have been great. LOL
AIT at Polk was from roughly Oct-Dec 1972 and believe it or not it can get fairly cold there.
So the story is: way out in Ft. Ord. CA they (y'all) had a spinal meningitis outbreak. So Ft. Polk (we) to keep from catching the contagious meningitis, had to take precautions which were in the 1945 barracks consisted of:
Moving lockers so they were in between each set of bunk beds, as they faced the wall/window out into the middle of the floor.
Alternating each window opening from lower to upper to lower etc.
Alternating each head from top to bottom to side to side. As the bunk beds faced the windows. Meaning if my head on my bed was near the window the guy above and on each side would be feet.
As chance would have the alternations ended up with me being on the bottom bunk, my head being towards the window, with the bottom window being open.
Gale force, straight from the North Pole winds would come through that window, and lift the blankets right offen my body.
All because y'all out in Ft. Ord, CA had a contagious outbreak.
I'm just glad I can now tell someone, Thank you very much. I near froze to death.
LOL
See US Code Title 10, Sec 112 thru 113 regarding the definition of the Militia of the United States and its call-up to active duty.
My Dad told me a story of WWII....they were staging in England.. prior to DD....staying in quonset huts.. it was brutally cold...Dad was an officer (rotc from VPI) and an enlisted man suddenly rushed into his hut ... didn't knock... didn't ask permission .....just not done...he was a mechanic with a wrench frozen to his hand..of course my Dad got him by the heat and helped get the wrench off his hand.... but that was some cold weather
As for Nam....I have friends on that wall..and friends...who back and were never the same..most drank them selves to death....
There was a book ..."Report from Iron Mountain"... the book disappeared quickly ...some said the government went by book stores and took them...we will never know for sure... It was about the plan to eliminate 50,000 of the baby boomer generation...yep it was about population control back then they address it in that book...I have an old copy around here somewhere..it was back in the 1960s.. there are more than 50,000 on the wall .... and just like the GA guide stones they told us....first ...and they did it..... one of those things that make you go hum...
As for Nam....I have friends on that wall..and friends...who back and were never the same..most drank them selves to death....
There was a book ..."Report from Iron Mountain"... the book disappeared quickly ...some said the government went by book stores and took them...we will never know for sure... It was about the plan to eliminate 50,000 of the baby boomer generation...yep it was about population control back then they address it in that book...I have an old copy around here somewhere..it was back in the 1960s.. there are more than 50,000 on the wall .... and just like the GA guide stones they told us....first ...and they did it..... one of those things that make you go hum...
It was the only lottery I “won” I was #41.
Here is a link to a pdf file of the book
Night Breeze
Veteran Member
Many ways to look at the draft, my guess and expert opinion is the only draft that will take place is the hard to fill occupations like Doctor, dentist, chaplain and a few others. Most branches can get the big bucks and offer golden parachutes for enlisting. Back in the 70s when I joined the draft was wide open and many were drafted. You were in for two years, 2 months for basic two months for AIT a month for leave APO San Francisco (Viet Nam) for a year back to the states with a month of leave and about 6 to twelve weeks of project transition. This was job training when you got out. Carpentry, plombing, electrician, etc. Or you could get out and go to school (VA education for 48 months. The expert part of me knows most draft eligible men aged 18 and 19 are not physically fit or mentally capable to finish their training on the modern battlefield that they wouyld have to operate on. Enlist get 50 grand and stay for 4 years if you can the brains to qualify.
33dInd
Veteran Member
As I recall
The constitution gambit if involuntary servitude was litigated in the courts
It didn’t pass muster
Still got our hineys drafted and part of the lean green machine we became
The draft is legal
That’s why so many people went to jail or to Canada
Still got a hi school friend in Canada
He never accepted the amnesty sthick
medic38572
TB Fanatic
Amen
Fort Lost in the Woods?
meezy
I think I can...
I don't know... the draft for WWII was right after the Depression, and I guarantee there were a lot of malnourished draftees. The bar for admission was pretty low -- like, having a certain number of teeth.
Quoting from a post on Reddit, which I'm sure has a real source that I'm too lazy to look for right now (but I've seen it before, somewhere else) :
And:
Then again... conditions were pretty much the same for our enemies, too.