CHAT What If The Draft Is Brought Back?

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I don't know... the draft for WWII was right after the Depression, and I guarantee there were a lot of malnourished draftees. The bar for admission was pretty low -- like, having a certain number of teeth.

Quoting from a post on Reddit, which I'm sure has a real source that I'm too lazy to look for right now (but I've seen it before, somewhere else) :


And:


Then again... conditions were pretty much the same for our enemies, too.
The real problem was World War I when a similar happened with the draft because so many recruits from the inner-city immigrant areas were so malnourished from starvation and disease that they did not qualify. That started the school lunch program in the United States, as the problem was large enough to be seen as a matter of national security (the real kind). It also resulted in a similar "class" issue I mentioned in my first post. Farm more "corn-fed, midwestern, farm boys" qualified (and died) during the First World War (from the United States) than those of urban and primarily immigrant families.

That helped fuel a rise in anti-immigration sentiment that would look familiar to many people today.

The kind of "damage" talked about both during WWI and today is the sort of thing you can't "toughen out" of people. Sure, you can throw them into a 25-mile hike with a 100-pound backpack, but if they fall with a shattered hip after 15 miles (today) or collapse from being too underweight to carry the load (WWI), it is a waste of time and money to train them. Then, we must discharge them and pay their medical expenses, perhaps even lifetime disability, if the injury results in a total disability.

In World War I, the damage was done in childhood through starvation combined with diets that were mostly cheap carbs and few vegetables or fresh meat and dairy. Today, the problems are malnutrition (and skeletal damage) from an ultra-processed diet and a lack of exercise (not just PE, simply not moving around much) that results in brittle bones, no stamina, early onset diabetes, and other conditions that can make even boot camp beyond the ability of their bodies to handle.

What may happen is what Israel did with their High IQ/High Functioning Aspies, which is to come up with a separate form of "National Service," which might or might not be military. But it would allow these young people to train and perform duties that they CAN do, especially those with better educations and skills who can do things like IT work or work in supplies and maintenance but not be able to physically perform well enough to get through even the modern and modified boot camps of today.

Isreal has compulsory service, and they had three choices with the Aspies: Give them medical exemptions, Keep trying the old way (and end up shooting some of them, or have them in prison), find a way to train them enough to do their jobs and then let them do the tricky types of "mental work" that they could do."

I am not saying that NO ONE from Generation Z will qualify or be able to be pressed into shape. I am saying that people with more direct experience than me with the issue are telling me that a large number will not be. That brings with it all the problems you had during WWI, but only with modern social media to ensure everyone knows about it, and families of young people who qualify will be upset that much faster.
 

Elza

Veteran Member
Should a return of the draft become necessary, there may not be enough time to have anyone graduate from Boot Camp…

OA
For that matter, where are they going to be trained? Most of our military installations have been shut down and turned into industrial parks. For ground pounders they could set up temporary camps as was done for WWII.

For the Navy it's another matter altogether. Where are the naval vessels going to come from? Where are they going to be built or repaired/re commissioned? Where will they be docked? All but a few of our Navy yards have been decommissioned and the equipment scrapped.

Where will the munitions come from? Most of the government munitions plants are long gone. Most of our reserves have been given away.

If this country ever gets into a real conflict we are summarily screwed on a number of points. Manpower will likely be the least of our problems.
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
Selective service needs to remove gender entirely or we’ll suddenly have a lot of 19 yr old trans people. If the needs are great though (WWIII), they’ll suddenly see that “trans” is only paper deep.

I like the American foreign legion idea.
 

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Being underweight is no longer a limitation. Relative was underweight when he went in. The dieticians took care of it. Barely. But he gained the weight he needed by the end of boot. Although from the way I heard it, some other folks took exception to it because he was being forced to eat more calories than most of them were being given.
 

patriotgal

Veteran Member
Being underweight is no longer a limitation. Relative was underweight when he went in. The dieticians took care of it. Barely. But he gained the weight he needed by the end of boot. Although from the way I heard it, some other folks took exception to it because he was being forced to eat more calories than most of them were being given.
Same for grand. Drill seargants would put an extra plate in front of him and tell him to eat it all. Minimum weight is the best he can do. Between starvation as a child and our family high metabolism, he doesn't stand a chance of gaining weight.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
I don't know... the draft for WWII was right after the Depression, and I guarantee there were a lot of malnourished draftees. The bar for admission was pretty low -- like, having a certain number of teeth.
It was the same in the UK in WWI - conscripts were thin and malnourished. They muscled up considerably with good food and exercise - added an average of about 15 lbs if I recall right.
 

Milkweed Host

Veteran Member
If there is a WW3, a military draft is certain.

Also, with a WW3, mainland America will not be spared from combat.
This is where the too old for the draft people will serve in some type of unit
or the Lone Wolf brigade.

The battle lines will be blurred.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
"Report from Iron Mountain" ... was about the plan to eliminate 50,000 of the baby boomer generation...yep it was about population control back then they address it in that book.
I don't see any such reference. Can you point it out more specifically?
 

Firebird

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Same for grand. Drill seargants would put an extra plate in front of him and tell him to eat it all. Minimum weight is the best he can do. Between starvation as a child and our family high metabolism, he doesn't stand a chance of gaining weight.
Struggling to gain weight is a real thing, I've always struggled with it my whole life
 

gunwish

Senior Member
The real problem was World War I when a similar happened with the draft because so many recruits from the inner-city immigrant areas were so malnourished from starvation and disease that they did not qualify. That started the school lunch program in the United States, as the problem was large enough to be seen as a matter of national security (the real kind). It also resulted in a similar "class" issue I mentioned in my first post. Farm more "corn-fed, midwestern, farm boys" qualified (and died) during the First World War (from the United States) than those of urban and primarily immigrant families.

That helped fuel a rise in anti-immigration sentiment that would look familiar to many people today.

The kind of "damage" talked about both during WWI and today is the sort of thing you can't "toughen out" of people. Sure, you can throw them into a 25-mile hike with a 100-pound backpack, but if they fall with a shattered hip after 15 miles (today) or collapse from being too underweight to carry the load (WWI), it is a waste of time and money to train them. Then, we must discharge them and pay their medical expenses, perhaps even lifetime disability, if the injury results in a total disability.

In World War I, the damage was done in childhood through starvation combined with diets that were mostly cheap carbs and few vegetables or fresh meat and dairy. Today, the problems are malnutrition (and skeletal damage) from an ultra-processed diet and a lack of exercise (not just PE, simply not moving around much) that results in brittle bones, no stamina, early onset diabetes, and other conditions that can make even boot camp beyond the ability of their bodies to handle.

What may happen is what Israel did with their High IQ/High Functioning Aspies, which is to come up with a separate form of "National Service," which might or might not be military. But it would allow these young people to train and perform duties that they CAN do, especially those with better educations and skills who can do things like IT work or work in supplies and maintenance but not be able to physically perform well enough to get through even the modern and modified boot camps of today.

Isreal has compulsory service, and they had three choices with the Aspies: Give them medical exemptions, Keep trying the old way (and end up shooting some of them, or have them in prison), find a way to train them enough to do their jobs and then let them do the tricky types of "mental work" that they could do."

I am not saying that NO ONE from Generation Z will qualify or be able to be pressed into shape. I am saying that people with more direct experience than me with the issue are telling me that a large number will not be. That brings with it all the problems you had during WWI, but only with modern social media to ensure everyone knows about it, and families of young people who qualify will be upset that much faster.
That speaks highly of a country right there. Put people in jail or shoot them because they can't understand something. That tells me all I need to know about the government of Israel
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
That speaks highly of a country right there. Put people in jail or shoot them because they can't understand something. That tells me all I need to know about the government of Israel
They didn't do that, they made a special service for them that did not involve standard boot camp.
 

Wyominglarry

Veteran Member
My neighbor's son joined the Marines last year. He told his mom that in his small group of friends who joined with him only two were offered enlistment. The other three were told they are too fat and ill to be good candidates for joining the Marines.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
A peace time draft needs to be reinstated. That will toughen the spoiled brats.
It's healthy for people to get some discipline and a dose of coddle-free life. But it's also vital for the armed forces to be a cross-section of the public. The armed forces must not become a dumping ground for people who had no other employment options.
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
You’ll know America’s totally doomed, when I get a draft notice for my 74 year old, decrepit, achy body…

OA
 

Elza

Veteran Member
A peace time draft needs to be reinstated. That will toughen the spoiled brats.
I agree IF they went back to a real military with discipline and respect. We have not had either in our military for a long time. Taking a bunch of pansies and putting them in our current pansy military would do no good at all. If anything it would only serve to reinforce their libtard ideals.

I grew up in the Dr. Spock era. (Thank God my parents never bought into that bull shit.) I went into the Army in '72. A good number of the guys I was in with didn't have the slightest idea of what discipline, respect, or responsibility meant. Talk about learning a hard lesson. Some of them simply didn't know whether to shit or wind their watch. And no stress card to hold up when they wanted a time out. The Army being what the Army was then taught them quickly and efficiently.

But, that was then and this is now. I do not believe for one second that our military will ever be like it used to be. At least not until this country is burned to the ground and rebuilt from the ground up.
 
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