WAR Pentagon Chief: If Ukraine Is Defeated, NATO Will Be At War With Russia
- Thread starter jward
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Groucho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The problem is, Obama, Victoria Nuland, Susan Rice, and Valerie Jarrett are among those behind the scenes now. I'm not sure there are any right thinking grown-ups or Praetorian guard left to right the ship.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
There is on a couple of fronts.
Grain
Invasion point (as used by Germany during WWII) Even though the Baltic States have and are wanting in NATO they have never tried to invade Russia. And would be on the order of foolish compared with Ukraine. And during WWII were easily overrun. And could be cut off from support by Russia's north sea fleet. Which brings up point No. 3
A very important warm water port in the Black Sea. And has always been a big deal with Russia. Into the Valley of death rode the Light Brigade.
Not sure what the Cuban Missile Crisis is all about - late to the party I guess, but of note is:
In a separate deal, which remained secret for more than twenty-five years, the United States also agreed to remove its nuclear missiles from Turkey.
Cuban Missile Crisis
In October 1962, an American U2 spy plane secretly photographed nuclear missile sites being built by the Soviet Union on the island of Cuba. Because he did not want Cuba and the Soviet Union to know that he had discovered the missiles, Kennedy met in secret with his advisors for several days to...
jed turtle
a brother in the Lord
Let us rather look at it this way: Russia already let the western corporate juggernaut in after the collapse of the USSR to “help them”. From what I understand Putin had to finally step in and kick them all out to save Russia from being financially and materially rapEd by the carpetbaggers.
now,
biden/Obama / “the West” has invaded Ukraine, threatening Putin with replacement and Russia with dismemberment for refusing to join the NWO/ World Economic Forum, World Bank, Etc, etc,
forcing Russia to ally with China and Iran And playing footsies with Turkey. Our guys are idiots and the outcome that you don’t like were natural survival moves by Russia to avoid being crushed by the waaaay out of control western oligarchies. When your “neighbor“ starts threatening to burn your house down - at night with you and your family in it - it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee, my friend.
Russia didn’t overthrow Mexico or Canada. WE over threw Ukraine. “Get it” yet?
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
I'll add this to my post, call me old fashioned; I think physically branding illegals caught twice, and those violent or criminals, so that if they get caught anywhere at any time it is immediately obvious they need to be punished and kicked out, or put on old fashioned corruption prone chaingangs.
jward
passin' thru
That comforting thought allows me to sleep at night, but I imagine the nightmare of there being no such thing and everything being run by an ever changing conglomerate of infantile, inept, stunted skin-sacs is probably closer to the truth of the matter.
jward
passin' thru
Germany confirms bugging of Bundeswehr Ukraine war talks
10 hours agoChancellor Olaf Scholz pledged a quick probe into a Russian leak of secret talks about the Ukraine war. The German military confirmed the talks were real, but couldn't rule out that the recording had been edited.
Germany's Defense Ministry on Saturday confirmed the authenticity of a recording of a confidential discussion between high-ranking Bundeswehr officers regarding the war in Ukraine that was leaked by Russian state media.
"According to our assessment, a conversation in the air force division was intercepted. We are currently unable to say for certain whether changes were made to the recorded or transcribed version that is circulating on social media," a spokeswoman for the ministry said.
The head of Russian state broadcaster RT, Margarita Simonyan, on Friday published what she said was an audio recording between German officers, including the chief of the Air Force, Lieutenant General Ingo Gerhartz.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz described it as "a very serious matter."
"It will now be investigated very carefully, very intensively, and very quickly," Scholz said on Saturday during a visit to Rome.
What else was on the audio
As aired by Simonyan on Telegram, the audio includes a discussion about whether Taurus cruise missiles would be capable of destroying a bridge, seemingly a reference to the new bridge linking Russian-occupied Crimea to the Russian mainland over the Kerch Strait.
The recording was apparently made from a video conference between four Luftwaffe offices discussing Russia's war in Ukraine.
On the audio leak, they spoke about ways German officers could supply Ukrainians with targeting information without appearing to be directly involved in the conflict with Russia.
The clip also contains reference to the British having "a few people on the ground" in connection with the deployment of their Storm Shadow cruise missiles delivered to Ukraine.
German outlet Der Spiegel reported that the virtual meeting did not take place via a secure line, but via the Webex platform.
German lawmakers alarmed
"If this story turns out to be true, it would be a highly problematic incident," Konstantin von Notz, the chairman of the Bundestag's parliamentary oversight committee, told broadcast network Redaktionsnetzwerk Deutschland.
The Green party politician said it should be determined "whether this is a one-off incident or a structural safety problem."
Roderich Kiesewetter, of the center-right Christian Democratic Union and deputy chairman of the Bundestag's parliamentary oversight committee said it seemed that Russia had leaked the conversation to put pressure Germany not to supply Taurus missiles to Ukraine.
"A number of other conversations will certainly have been intercepted and may be leaked at a later date for Russia's benefit," he told broadcaster ZDF.
Scholz has so far refused to send the Taurus missiles to Ukraine.
Earlier this week, he said the missiles range and the likely need for assistance from German Bundeswehr troops was problematic and could be construed as direct or indirect participation in the war.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova demanded that Germany "promptly" provide an explanation and claimed the audio was evidence of a "hybrid war" the West was waging on Russia.
lo/msh (dpa, AFP)
Germany confirms bugging of Bundeswehr Ukraine war talks – DW – 03/02/2024
Chancellor Olaf Scholz pledged a quick probe into a Russian leak of secret talks about the Ukraine war. The German military confirmed the talks were real, but couldn't rule out that the recording had been edited.
www.dw.com
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
We certainly poked the bear quite a bit before the current dust-up started.
One fallacy that continually trips people up is the belief that if one side is the bad guy, then the other side is the good guy. Here's a revelation: every side considers themselve to be the 'good guys' - or at least not the bad guys.
Sometimes, hell perhaps lots of times, it's more like the Hell's Angels vs. the Outlaws fighting over territory and dominance.
Just with nicer suits and better gear, think-tanks calculating percentages, as well as an entire captured industry pumping out propaganda...
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Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Old Greek
Veteran Member
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
blueinterceptor
Veteran Member
Discussing if something can be done and planning to do it, are two different things. We wargame (discuss) if things can be done all the time.
jward
passin' thru
Victor vicktop55
@vicktop55
The French are already fighting in Ukraine and are going to come again.
Military expert Alexander Zimovsky writes:
French newspapermen have received confirmation from the Elysee Palace that Macron is serious about the introduction of French troops by the parle francais très sérieusement* (quite seriously).
The President and the military in Paris are considering options for the transfer of French SpN units and other military units to Ukraine in order to put Putin in front of a strategic dilemma.
(mettre Poutine dans un dilemme stratégique)
One of the options will be for the French army to carry out tasks to protect individual cities and regions of Ukraine in order to stop Russia's further offensive.
____
* Excuse my French.
t.me
View: https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1764170512266100815?s=20
@vicktop55
The French are already fighting in Ukraine and are going to come again.
Military expert Alexander Zimovsky writes:
French newspapermen have received confirmation from the Elysee Palace that Macron is serious about the introduction of French troops by the parle francais très sérieusement* (quite seriously).
The President and the military in Paris are considering options for the transfer of French SpN units and other military units to Ukraine in order to put Putin in front of a strategic dilemma.
(mettre Poutine dans un dilemme stratégique)
One of the options will be for the French army to carry out tasks to protect individual cities and regions of Ukraine in order to stop Russia's further offensive.
____
* Excuse my French.
Victor vicktop55
The French are already fighting in Ukraine and are going to come again. Military expert Alexander Zimovsky writes: French newspapermen have received confirmation from the Elysee Palace that Macron is serious about the introduction of French troops by the parle francais très sérieusement*...
t.me
LightEcho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The desperation of the devils trying to seize total control of the world is becoming more evident. If NATO brings in more weapons and invades Ukraine with military forces, Russia will have no choice but to begin a strategic game. And there is no re-spawning from that game.
General Butler too.
jed turtle
a brother in the Lord
You are such a softie. Previous criminals who are then deported better have been chipped so when they try to come back robotic border patrol guard posts immediately detect and destroy said re-invading illegals within less than three minutes. A trench needs to be dug all along the other side of the border wall for their carcasses to fall into so that their fellow invaders need to step over their rotten bodies in order to get near the wall...
TheSearcher
Are you sure about that?
De-Lurking to say: No matter whatever differences I may have with many of you about this war going on, I say LightEcho is 100% correct here.
I'm very concerned that our banter here is about to mean precisely dick.
colonel holman
Veteran Member
They are likely lining up to cash in on all the re-building grants that will follow a negotiated defeat, smelling huge skimming and kickback opportunities… assuming they don’t trigger Armageddon in the run-up to that stage of $$$$ harvesting.
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
80% of the German war effort was against Russia. And the Germans lost. The only way 'we' could have won would have been with nukes.
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
I had already thought of that. Chips can be removed.
jward
passin' thru
War on the Rocks
@WarOnTheRocks
The U.S. Army should now rediscover the lost art of nuclear battlefield operations and prepare its soldiers for the uniquely devastating effects of nuclear weapons.
www.timebomb2000.com
@WarOnTheRocks
The U.S. Army should now rediscover the lost art of nuclear battlefield operations and prepare its soldiers for the uniquely devastating effects of nuclear weapons.
WAR - 03-02-2024-to-03-09-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR****
(334) 02-10-2024-to-02-16-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** (335) 02-17-2024-to-02-23-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** (336) 02-24-2024-to-03-01-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted for fair...
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
How about you just say no? You WANT your relatives to end up on someone's dinner plate?War on the Rocks
@WarOnTheRocks
The U.S. Army should now rediscover the lost art of nuclear battlefield operations and prepare its soldiers for the uniquely devastating effects of nuclear weapons.
WAR - 03-02-2024-to-03-09-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR****
(334) 02-10-2024-to-02-16-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** (335) 02-17-2024-to-02-23-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** (336) 02-24-2024-to-03-01-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted for fair...
von Koehler
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Russia received massive amounts of war material from America and England. It's still argued to this day whether this aid made the difference between winning or losing for the Soviet Union. Russia hardly even acknowledges receiving this aid.
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LightEcho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
as I recall (not first-hand), it was not "war material" but trucks that saved Russia in WW2. We gave them the means of transportation.
Tanks, planes, automobiles, food, ammunition, fuel, medicine- damned near everything. The commie bastards in this country haven’t stopped helping/propping up/expanding the commie agenda.
OA
Redleg
Veteran Member
We should have kept the low yield nukes that we can shoot out of artillery. We were training, simulating, with the use in the battlefield back in the late 80's.War on the Rocks
@WarOnTheRocks
The U.S. Army should now rediscover the lost art of nuclear battlefield operations and prepare its soldiers for the uniquely devastating effects of nuclear weapons.
WAR - 03-02-2024-to-03-09-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR****
(334) 02-10-2024-to-02-16-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** (335) 02-17-2024-to-02-23-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** (336) 02-24-2024-to-03-01-2024__****THE****WINDS****of****WAR**** ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted for fair...
von Koehler
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It's true that America gave them trunks but that was only part of the massive aid they received.
For example, during the war the Soviets were able to construct only ONE locomotive while we supplied 100's to them. Russia to this day relies mainly on rail transport as their road system sucks.
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Correct. The trucks gave the Soviets' the means to move their personal and supplies without having to first produce these vehicles.
@@@
World War II Allies: U.S. Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union, 1941-1945
Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, America sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the Nazi invasion. Totaling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today’s currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the “enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy — bloodthirsty Hitlerism.”
- 400,000 jeeps & trucks
- 14,000 airplanes
- 8,000 tractors
- 13,000 tanks
- 1.5 million blankets
- 15 million pairs of army boots
- 107,000 tons of cotton
- 2.7 million tons of petrol products
- 4.5 million tons of food
It has always been a Command, Control and Security issue of concern with those weapons.
jward
passin' thru
I suspect you're still a bit confused about what it is we do here; the article is merely one of the voices currently found in the public square that is seeking to shape policy.
That makes it relevant to the issues in this thread and is why it is posted; it has nothing to do with me, personally, nor any views I may, or may not, hold on a given subject.
jward
passin' thru
any chance this ballooning of defense budgets we've seen the last few years is about the paradigm shift to a multi-polar world and the w/d of US's protections, and NOT everyone and their brother stepping up into war footing??? 
The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
BREAKING: Reuters reports that the European Commission will propose ways for the EU to boost its arms industry so it can shift to 'war economy mode'
1:40 PM · Mar 4, 2024
289.9K
Views
The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex
BREAKING: Reuters reports that the European Commission will propose ways for the EU to boost its arms industry so it can shift to 'war economy mode'
1:40 PM · Mar 4, 2024
289.9K
Views
Mark D
Now running for Emperor.
.
The psychopaths in D.C crave War.
Another manifestation of the scoundrels hiding themselves in the cloaks of patriots......