WAR Pentagon Chief: If Ukraine Is Defeated, NATO Will Be At War With Russia

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I don't believe that we have seen the full force of Russia in play in Ukraine. If the US challenges Putin in an all our war. we'll get our butts handed to us, based on the pitiful state of our military and leadership. Putin is not playing, but our military is still deciding what shade of lipstick matches our soldier's uniforms.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
What we have been watching in Ukraine is not the way the world warring will proceed. This opening act is more like two men insulting each other before reaching the point of a duel. But when we get to that point of real war, it won't be a duel.

Who in Europe can the US count on? Name one country you would like to have by your side going into a rowdy bar where you know a fight is going to happen. I pick none. They will leave us bleeding on the side of the road and snicker as they run off. But let's say someone out there was our friend. Which one has the manufacturing capability to support a war machine?

Now consider our enemies. We have friends when we pay off their leaders (and give 10% to the big guy). But there is NOBODY wanting to fight alongside us. In fact, most of the world is our enemy. China pretended to love us as long as we were a market that could be bled. They stole our technology and infiltrated everything here. We are a picked melon and the worms have already bored into the meat.

When it starts, there will be no trenches. Not even artillery. Nothing like WW1. Very soon, the horror will surpass anything that has gone before.
You took me too literally.

And yes, it will be the most horrible thing that humanity has ever done to itself.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
To do what?
tumblr_nq1ve6iiZp1qgn2eeo2_250.gif
 

Chance

Veteran Member
Well, with the CIA exposing their spy network in Ukraine this week..effectively up ending it...maybe they've done as much destruction as they'd planned on doing...and now time to pass the baton to NATO.

Interesting timeline of events:

CIA director secretly to Kyiv on the 22nd I believe, Then the Russian Federation officials show up in Saudi Arabia to meet with the crown prince (first time Russians in Saudi Arabia) and the next day Zelensky did the same thing ..looking for help with a peace deal with Russia..showing up with his ten points peace plan. Did the CIA tell him to go after a peace deal with Russia now? Notably, the US is absent from this peace deal making....hmmm


Meanwhile this article comes out about the NATO warmongers...they don't want peace with Russia. Too many fingers in the pie!?

Has the CIA set NATO up for war with Russia? Was that their plan all along? Do a lot of damage and get the West in deep? Why expose their spy network? And why now?
 
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Elza

Veteran Member
I don't believe that we have seen the full force of Russia in play in Ukraine. If the US challenges Putin in an all our war. we'll get our butts handed to us, based on the pitiful state of our military and leadership. Putin is not playing, but our military is still deciding what shade of lipstick matches our soldier's uniforms.
QFT! Our current military couldn't fight it's way out of a Hong Kong whore house.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city

Pentagon Chief: If Ukraine Is Defeated, NATO Will Be At War With Russia​


by Tyler Durden​



This is the single most important, dangerous and highly revealing statement from a top defense official in the West in a long time... It also demonstrates the precarious urgency of the moment and the huge stakes going into the November US election. The world truly stands on the precipice of a nuclear nightmare with the following fresh assertion of Biden's Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, who said before Congress on Thursday:

What's more is that this came the very day that Russian President Vladimir Putin warned things could easily spiral toward nuclear war in the scenario that NATO sends troops to Ukraine. Watch:

According to the fuller context of the Pentagon chief's statements, he emphasized that more Washington funding is crucial for Ukraine in order to prevent a situation where "one country can redraw its neighbors’ boundaries and illegitimately take over its sovereign territory."
"We know that if Putin is successful here, he will not stop. He will continue to take more aggressive actions in the region. And other leaders around the world, other autocrats around the world will look at this and will be encouraged by the fact that this happened and we failed to support a democracy," he added.

"If you are a Baltic state, you are really worried about whether you are next. They know Putin. They know what he is capable of. And, frankly, if Ukraine falls, I really believe that NATO will be in a fight with Russia," Austin said.
What is even more alarming about this statement is that everyone now knows that Ukraine forces are in retreat at this very moment, especially after the Russian capture of the city of Avdiivka, and surrounding villages.

Bloomberg on Thursday issued a report predicting total collapse of the Ukrainian front lines by summer, as the headline suggests (Ukraine Sees Risk of Russia Breaking Through Defenses by Summer): "Ukrainian officials are concerned that Russian advances could gain significant momentum by the summer unless their allies can increase the supply of ammunition, according to a person familiar with their analysis," the report says. According to more from Bloomberg:

US DoD/Flickr
So the consensus narrative and belated mainstream media admission is that Ukraine's military is a mere months away from clear defeat, and the top US defense chief just said NATO will go to war with Russia "if Ukraine falls".
The conflict has reached a dire and perilously unpredictable moment indeed, and clearly the already slim chances of jump-starting serious peace negotiations to end the war are slipping away fast.

And..............how is the good Secretary's CANCER going???
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
I would love to see who signs your paychecks....
the US overthrew a duly elected government in Kyiv. As they always do, “let’s have a “color revolution”, courtesy of the cia. Because “Democracy”!

nazis all the way down.... been running the US for waaaay too long. News flash: brainwashing is a thing...
And don't forget the Cuban Missile Crisis--

which some (hypocritically) think is "okay for me to respond to but not for thee..."
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Putin was not wrong. He told Ukraine “no NATO in Ukraine”!
the cia overthrew the government of Kyiv. Violently. WE are the guilty culprits in Ukraine. When we are nothng more than shadows burned into the ground all across America, you will have no one to blame but the Nazis that run the MIC in this country.
:applaud:
 

Shadow

Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
And don't forget the Cuban Missile Crisis--

which some (hypocritically) think is "okay for me to respond to but not for thee..."
At which point we were about to go to nuclear war because a Russian proxy had nukes 90 miles away from our border.

If there were a Russian equivalent to NATO and Colombia joined we might be unhappy. If Mexico joined, with a border tangent to ours, we would be jumping ugly. (Hypothetically, if it were the early 1960's and we cared about the nation.)

That was what pushed the Ukraine issue past tension and into action. Ukraine was moving toward joining NATO and had a border in common with Russia. That would have been a first and Russia is now backed into the position we were with Cuba. They cannot afford anything but a win.

That is as stripped down to it's essence as I can get it.


Shadow
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
And yet, Putin is STILL not entitled to absorb Ukraine into Russia, any more than Ukraine should become someone else's vassal state. Get it?

After all the puppet governments Putin has been involved in setting up, and all the opposition he's had killed, suddenly he needs to execute an actual, boneified war?

Zelensky and his graft with Biden are real. Russian paranoia over NATO is understandable. Both are excuses for Putin to do something he wanted to do.

It's bad actors on both sides, with the rest of us stuck in the middle.
No, Searcher, you refuse to acknowledge that our cia did a violent “Maiden” revolution including sharpshooters firing into the crowds to overthrow a duly elected government. Who took over who, huh? And then the Ike nazis started shelling civilian Russian speakers in the Donbas, why? Because they spoke russian. Me thinks you have spent too much time inside the circle down in DC... I have talked to a few family related types from the DC pentagon environs - bean counters in uniforms- too obvious they never heard any narrative except out of the Washington Post, ever.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
No, Searcher, you refuse to acknowledge that our cia did a violent “Maiden” revolution including sharpshooters firing into the crowds to overthrow a duly elected government. Who took over who, huh? And then the Ike nazis started shelling civilian Russian speakers in the Donbas, why? Because they spoke russian. Me thinks you have spent too much time inside the circle down in DC... I have talked to a few family related types from the DC pentagon environs - bean counters in uniforms- too obvious they never heard any narrative except out of the Washington Post, ever.
Good Gravy, Jed. I was talking about Russia's view of the world, not DC's. Yes, DC lies to us like breathing. It has NOTHING to do with Russia's own self-aggrandizing interpretation of history.

There are two (TWO!) entities fighting over there, neither are telling us the truth. The depravity of the Biden-Zelensky axis holds the door open for Russia to do things they shouldn't do, because WE DON'T LIKE Biden and his fiscal launderer. This is WHY a moral government is important - the enemies take advantage of that weakness.

Let's look at this way: If someone commits a crime against the local government from your home, does the local government get to keep your home as payment for saving you?
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
At which point we were about to go to nuclear war because a Russian proxy had nukes 90 miles away from our border.

If there were a Russian equivalent to NATO and Colombia joined we might be unhappy. If Mexico joined, with a border tangent to ours, we would be jumping ugly. (Hypothetically, if it were the early 1960's and we cared about the nation.)

That was what pushed the Ukraine issue past tension and into action. Ukraine was moving toward joining NATO and had a border in common with Russia. That would have been a first and Russia is now backed into the position we were with Cuba. They cannot afford anything but a win.

That is as stripped down to it's essence as I can get it.


Shadow
There are other countries that border Russia that joined NATO already. There is something special about Ukraine.
 

Shadow

Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
There are other countries that border Russia that joined NATO already. There is something special about Ukraine.
Russia has been invaded thru the land mass that is Ukraine. Bad experiences with it in the past. Add in the corruption, the bio labs and the killing of Russians within the Ukraine.

There is much more you can protract but I believe that is the core of it.

Shadow
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
At which point we were about to go to nuclear war because a Russian proxy had nukes 90 miles away from our border.

If there were a Russian equivalent to NATO and Colombia joined we might be unhappy. If Mexico joined, with a border tangent to ours, we would be jumping ugly. (Hypothetically, if it were the early 1960's and we cared about the nation.)

That was what pushed the Ukraine issue past tension and into action. Ukraine was moving toward joining NATO and had a border in common with Russia. That would have been a first and Russia is now backed into the position we were with Cuba. They cannot afford anything but a win.

That is as stripped down to it's essence as I can get it.


Shadow
THANK YOU.

THAT is what EVERYONE keeps FORGETTING.

That, and--iirc---wasn't there a TREATY with Russia, that NATO would NEVER allow missiles in any nation next to a Russian border? Nor would it EVER allow Ukraine to join NATO?

more useless promises.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
There are other countries that border Russia that joined NATO already. There is something special about Ukraine.
yes--it was once part of Russia, and many ethnic-Russians still lived there (or did, when this started 2 years ago). Again, iirc (those of you with better memories help me out here) I believe it was part of the LAST peace agreement regarding Ukraine that this ONE PARTICULAR COUNTRY would never allow NATO missiles to be set up there. (and maybe no NATO troops, too?)
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Good Gravy, Jed. I was talking about Russia's view of the world, not DC's. Yes, DC lies to us like breathing. It has NOTHING to do with Russia's own self-aggrandizing interpretation of history.

There are two (TWO!) entities fighting over there, neither are telling us the truth. The depravity of the Biden-Zelensky axis holds the door open for Russia to do things they shouldn't do, because WE DON'T LIKE Biden and his fiscal launderer. This is WHY a moral government is important - the enemies take advantage of that weakness.

Let's look at this way: If someone commits a crime against the local government from your home, does the local government get to keep your home as payment for saving you?
I think Biden et al did FAR more than just make money off Ukraine. They DID over throw the duly-elected govt the PEOPLE of the country WANTED (maybe that was their "practice" for 2020 here)--just as our country has interfered with, or TRIED to interfere with, OTHER elections in other countries. We can't do that and then walk away scott-free and complain that "those other two nations just can't get along! OBVIOUSLY we'll HAVE to intervene!"
 

Shadow

Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
There are other countries that border Russia that joined NATO already. There is something special about Ukraine.
Yes, Finland joined in 2023 in response to the Ukraine situation, and that was provocative but Russia did not take the bait. Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were about 2004 but I do not think Russia found them worrisome.

Shadow
 

JeanCat

Veteran Member
--- Interlude ---

I would like to say that I feel that we have exited the "it's quiet, too quiet" phase into "TB2K members are sniping at each other phase". This usually indicates a bad moon rising.

Jed, I'd like to apologize. I will put this thread on lurk mode.
“Bad moon rising”?? Is this CCR with the bathroom on the right???
 

jward

passin' thru
NEXTA
@nexta_tv

The Chinese Foreign Ministry responds to Putin's nuclear threats and calls for restraint

"There will be no winners in a nuclear war, and China calls on all parties to maintain restraint," stated the ministry spokesperson, recalling that in January 2022, the leaders of the five nuclear-armed states made a joint statement affirming that a nuclear war cannot be won and must not be started.
 

jward

passin' thru
--- Interlude ---

I would like to say that I feel that we have exited the "it's quiet, too quiet" phase into "TB2K members are sniping at each other phase". This usually indicates a bad moon rising.

Jed, I'd like to apologize. I will put this thread on lurk mode.
While I do not blame you- or haven't read what you wrote, so if you are to blame, I do not yet know it-
I would remind people this is an information thread, and that we're all, presumably, busy people, so keeping our posts relevant is respectful and appreciated.
 

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
I truly don't remember an explicitly goal of the West to end Russia and parcel it out. It certainly isn't in NATO's charter that I know of.

As for the Saint Putin business, I've seen that said in specific by some people.
I don't believe there is a West, not the way you seem to be implying. There is a loose conglomeration of cliques, cabals, (captured) religious structures, and a certain demographic that controls the levers of power in the West, and that is 100% true of "Nato"; when "Nato" went to war with Serbia on behalf of Muslim herion cartels I knew they were no longer a Treaty Organization but were fully in the camp of the NWO (today known as WEF, though that is just a front organization). Not trying to argue, but I am long past being able to be manipulated by jingoistic USA rhetoric, which currently is coming from the group that control the highest levers of power in the USA. The only worry I have about Russia are the nukes. MY COUNTRY is being invaded by millions and millions. Therein is my concern.
 

jward

passin' thru
details of Germanys' actions r posted in the Russian War thread...or the details can be read about in the article referenced below.

Glenn Diesen
@Glenn_Diesen

Germany reveals that British soldiers have been behind the attacks on Russia's Black Sea Fleet
- This is insane! An act of war against the world's largest nuclear power. Will we scream "unprovoked" when Russia eventually retaliates?
View: https://twitter.com/Glenn_Diesen/status/1763393325690696093?s=20
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
details of Germanys' actions r posted in the Russian War thread...or the details can be read about in the article referenced below.

Glenn Diesen
@Glenn_Diesen

Germany reveals that British soldiers have been behind the attacks on Russia's Black Sea Fleet
- This is insane! An act of war against the world's largest nuclear power. Will we scream "unprovoked" when Russia eventually retaliates?
View: https://twitter.com/Glenn_Diesen/status/1763393325690696093?s=20
This is not good at all.
 

Groucho

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So our DIE hire SecDef, who was MIA for four days and nobody missed him, comes up with enough fertilizer to take care of half the corn fields in Iowa. Impressive.

NATO was brought about to defend against the Soviet Union. There is no more Soviet Union. NATO is obsolete and should be tossed on the scrap heap.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
So our DIE hire SecDef, who was MIA for four days and nobody missed him, comes up with enough fertilizer to take care of half the corn fields in Iowa. Impressive.

NATO was brought about to defend against the Soviet Union. There is no more Soviet Union. NATO is obsolete and should be tossed on the scrap heap.

I have to wonder if whatever constitutes the Praetorians have a limit set where they'll step in and take over either behind the scenes or overtly?
 

jward

passin' thru

When Putin Talks the West Better Listen​


If you’re under 55 years of age you probably never heard of EF Hutton. Hutton, a brokerage, made quite a name for itself with a series of ads that carried the tag-line, “When EF Hutton talks, people listen.” Here is one example:

So pay careful attention to Putin’s warning to the West during his annual “The State of Russia” speech.
Putin noted that while accusing Russia of plans to attack NATO allies in Europe, Western allies were “selecting targets for striking our territory” and “talking about the possibility of sending a NATO contingent to Ukraine.”
“We remember the fate of those who sent their troop contingents to the territory of our country,” the Russian leader said in an apparent allusion to the failed invasions by Napoleon and Hitler. “Now the consequences for the potential invaders will be far more tragic.”
In a two-hour speech before an audience of lawmakers and top officials, Putin cast Western leaders as reckless and irresponsible and declared that the West should keep in mind that “we also have the weapons that can strike targets on their territory, and what they are now suggesting and scaring the world with, all that raises the real threat of a nuclear conflict that will mean the destruction of our civilization.”

Putin’s remarks were not “off-the-cuff.” It was a carefully crafted message directed specifically at Biden and NATO leaders and came in the wake off French President Macron’s incredibly tone-deaf speech earlier in the week:
French President Emmanuel Macron said Monday that sending Western troops on the ground in Ukraine is not “ruled out” in the future after the issue was debated at a gathering of European leaders in Paris, as Russia’s full-scale invasion grinds into a third year.
The French leader said that “we will do everything needed so Russia cannot win the war” after the meeting of over 20 European heads of state and government and other Western officials.
“There’s no consensus today to send in an official, endorsed manner troops on the ground. But in terms of dynamics, nothing can be ruled out,” Macron said in a news conference at the Elysee presidential palace.

Macron was not the only European leader with a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease. Olaf Scholz did his share to sow more NATO disunity. While he strongly dismissed Macron’s claim that Europe would deploy troops to Ukraine, he threw the U.K. and France under the bus:
Speaking to journalists in Berlin earlier this week, Scholz justified his continued refusal to send Germany’s Taurus long-range cruise missiles to Ukraine by saying it could require German troops in Ukraine to program them.
That would — in Scholz’s view — make Germany an active participant in the conflict.
“This is a very far-reaching weapon,” Scholz said of the Taurus. “And what the British and French are doing in terms of target control and support for target control cannot be done in Germany.”

Besides Putin’s clear warning to the NATO alliance that it is playing with potential nuclear fire, Russia’ s intelligence service leaked a stunning conversation between German military officers who were discussing plans to attack Russia. According to the transcript, a conversation took place on February 19, 2024 among Grafe (department head for operations and exercises at the Air Force Forces Command of the Bundeswehr), Gerhartz (Bundeswehr Air Force Inspector), Fenske and Frohstedte (employees of the Air Operations Command within the Space Operations Center of the Bundeswehr). There was a detailed discussion of using German missiles to attack targets in Russia, such as the Kerch Bridge in Crimea. You can read the full transcript here.

This was not an accidental leak. It was intended to put the West on notice that Russia is fully aware of what NATO officials across the alliance are saying to each other and is aware of plans to attack Russian targets. This leak coupled with Putin’s remarks the previous day is an unmistakable warning to the West that it is approaching a red-line that, if crossed, will require a strong Russian response.

Such a response could include destroying NATO bases used to launch attacks on Russia. Putin is not bullshitting. He is serious and the gravity of the matter is underscored by Putin giving the green light to leak intercepted conversations of NATO officers to the media. The West better pay close attention.
Ray McGovern and I discussed this with Judge Napolitano today:

RT<30m
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcFbfhkL3WE

 
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