Knock on door @ 9:00 Pm... Answer door with 1911 in hand. That should help in solving any problems.
It was on the end table 1/2 second reach away. It's always good to have 45 reasons around you.
Yep. I've seen that, too. My thinking was living people. Not the posthumous baptisms. I think LDS have changed the rules around the postumous baptisms, though.Not true.
Mormon Church apologizes for posthumous baptisms
Mormon Church apologizes for posthumous baptismswww.latimes.com
Mormon Church apologizes for posthumous baptisms
BY MITCHELL LANDSBERG, LOS ANGELES TIMES
FEB. 15, 2012
"The Mormon Church apologized Tuesday for a “serious breach of protocol” after it was discovered that the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that one of its members tried to baptize posthumously three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel.
The efforts, at least in Wiesenthal’s case, violated the terms of an agreement that the church signed in 1995, in which it agreed to stop baptizing Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Wiesenthal and Wiesel gained fame for careers spent grappling with the legacy of the Holocaust, Wiesenthal by hunting down war criminals, Wiesel by writing books that became part of the canon of 20th century literature.
Coming at a time when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in the public eye as perhaps never before, the revelations could prove embarrassing — and, conceivably, influence perceptions of presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s faith.
Posthumous baptism is common in the Mormon Church. The purpose is to ensure that ancestors can join church members in the afterlife. Individual Mormons submit to the church the names of persons they wish to have baptized, then undergo baptism “by proxy.”
However, the practice has sometimes offended those of other faiths whose ancestors are baptized by proxy by enthusiastic Mormons. That is especially true of the families of Jewish victims of the Holocaust, whose outcries prompted the 1995 agreement. Although the Mormon Church now says its policy limits posthumous baptisms to direct ancestors of its members, it acknowledges that the policy is sometimes violated.
The latest revelations came from Helen Radkey, a former Mormon who independently researches Mormon genealogy. Radkey is perhaps best known for discovering in 2009 that President Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, had been baptized after her death.
The church acknowledged that individual Mormons had been baptized on behalf of Wiesenthal’s parents and that other members were apparently preparing to do so for Wiesel’s three relatives.
“We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church” led to the baptism of Wiesenthal’s parents, Mormon Church spokesman Matthew Purdy said. ""We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person’s ability to access our genealogy records.”
In the case of Wiesel’s family, the process was apparently halted in its early stages.
The church did not identify the members responsible in either case.
Wiesenthal’s mother, Rosa, died in 1942 in the Belzek extermination camp. His father, Asher, had died earlier, in combat in World War I. Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005.
“If Simon were alive today, it’s hard to really describe what his reaction would be,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.
Cooper described the Mormon practice of posthumous baptism as a “beautiful gesture,” when done within Mormon families, but said it was inappropriate and offensive to baptize the Jewish dead, especially those who died in the Holocaust.
“Their physical lives were taken, their communities were destroyed and now somebody is coming along, however well-intentioned, and is suggesting that they’re going to rebrand their souls,” he said. “It just doesn’t compute.”
I don't show a weapon. That's just how I was trained. I was also trained not to open the door in the first place if I don't know who is knocking, especially at night, but I'm also female.
It wouldn't have been seen.
YassumYep. I'm already known as the "crazy old lady." In this climate, I don't want to add "with a gun" to that, but I'm sure a few of the guys have seen me at the range. I keep a low profile. I generally go early in the morning.
Not familiar with that one.My sister just moved here to Fl from SLC. She's not Mormon, but lived and worked around them for years. She once told me that the ones that don't adhere to the rules are referred to as "Jack Mormons".
I read the linked story. Two things jumped out at me:There was a story a while back about fake missionaries robbing people. They had the look down too. Fake Mormon Missionaries Rob Home at Gunpoint
Jehovah Witness doorknockers have a longstanding reputation for ignoring "No Solicitations" signage.Barry, I mean this question with all due respect... as I've said upthread, I've never seen a rude LDS missionary. But wouldn't they be instructed to obey local law enforcement and no soliciting laws.. or not?
Summerthyme
I read the linked story. Two things jumped out at me:
….
2) The reporter who wrote up the article clearly didn't know much about Mormons, to have expected them to carry Bibles. I went with a Mormon relative to their Sunday services one time, less than a year ago, and I didn't see one Bible (or Cross, for that matter) in the whole place.
Not so. They only had copies of the Book of Mormon (and plenty of those I saw), I'm pretty sure. I have this assessment BC my relative GAVE me one (they were all the same dark blue, with identical shape and size, and not many of them), and I glanced at it.MS, what you saw was probably people holding “quads”, that is, a book that contained all four holy scriptures recognized by the Mormon faith: The Bible (old and new testament), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
Nowadays, they are just as likely to have their scriptures in digital format on their iPads, but until recently, they would usually carry one huge volume that contained all four of these scriptures.
Perhaps, but their version of the Bible would have to be missing the books of Ephesians, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Romans, Corinthians, Revelation, and Matthew, among others.MS, what you saw was probably people holding “quads”, that is, a book that contained all four holy scriptures recognized by the Mormon faith: The Bible (old and new testament), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
Nowadays, they are just as likely to have their scriptures in digital format on their iPads, but until recently, they would usually carry one huge volume that contained all four of these scriptures.
MS, with all due respect - you have no idea what you are talking about.Perhaps, but their version of the Bible would have to be missing the books of Ephesians, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Romans, Corinthians, Revelation, and Matthew, among others.
Yes, the LDS missionaries do have curfews. But those curfews vary from one region to another.In Ohio LDS elders have curfews.
They don’t go out that late.
They don’t even back a car unless their partner is outside watching.
Highly suspect these were LDS.
From your description of the event I'm pretty sure they weren't Mormons; more likely scammers looking for 'donations' &/or a recon team scoping out potential B&E targets.Sitting here with the missus, knock on the door. Two young Mormons wanted to talk about Jesus. I told them I didn't want to and they were soliciting (it's 830 pm folks. Come on!) One piped up with "we have permission to be on the property anytime we want".
No they don't; they have been run off for these "talks about Jesus" during the very early morning, twice a day in some buildings, at night, all the time basically- and me and the property mgr. are friends-no, they don't have permission. Cops have escorted them off the property at least twice. Looking for souls is one thing-but this late at night?
I informed them their statements were incorrect-in return I was told to "F*ck off". as they walked away from my wide open door (and persuasion instrument in clear view on the end table). In front of my home, in my face, in the evening.
Yeah, one actually said that. Really????????
So, my question is; how can I track down the group these folks are with? I'd like to inform their preacher of their sterling representatives of their religion. And I'd like to ask whoever their leaders are is this representative of the faith these yokels are supposed to be representing?
I'm a little calmer now; when this happened it just surprised me. And angered me. And I don't get mad, I get even. If I can get a license plate on their next visit here, woe be unto them and their families.
I read the linked story. Two things jumped out at me:
1) One of the two perps was black. Anyone that knows squat about Mormon missionaries would know that very, very few of them assigned to white middle-class suburbs would be anything but white. The victims really should have immediately smelled
a rat when they saw a black; think of the black Klansman in "Blazing Saddles" for near-comparable discordance. (See the opening scene in the crude if hilarious comedy movie "Orgazmo" for a decent rendition of them.)
2) The reporter who wrote up the article clearly didn't know much about Mormons, to have expected them to carry Bibles. I went with a Mormon relative to their Sunday services one time, less than a year ago, and I didn't see one Bible (or Cross, for that matter) in the whole place.
Most LDS people now have their scriptures on their phones to read in church or class…. That way they have access to many cross references.Alphabets. Pick three different letters.
You are on their radar, and they are *subtly* letting you know that.
Perhaps, but that would predict few to no Books of Mormon there, either. Instead, I saw a fair number of them there -- and not one single Bible (and I was carefully looking).Most LDS people now have their scriptures on their phones to read in church or class…. That way they have access to many cross references.
Same with hymn books…
Whatever you guys are, it's something other than what anyone living 200 years ago could conceivably have deemed a Christian.
Actually, if you read the Book of Mormon (which is scripture and a spiritual history of the people of the Americas, like the Bible is one of the people in the Middle East) there are quite a few passages that quote directly from Isaiah. The earliest people in the Book of Mormon - Lehi and his family - actually left Jeruselum in about 600 BC - before it was destroyed.Whatever you guys are, it's something other than what anyone living 200 years ago could conceivably have deemed a Christian.
I can promise you - they would be thrilled to baptize you. You are an incredible spirit and one of the elect daughters of Heavenly Father. And, just to set the record straight, young men (and young women) are encouraged to go on missions - but if they decide not to go, it does not prevent them from getting married. Although, it's a wonderful chance for young people in the age group that "it's all about them" to learn about true service to others. Thank you for your kindness to those young men.I have never received a visit from a Mormon since that day, even though I moved many times. I'm pretty sure they won't baptize me either.
We are praying for this young man who was protecting the teens playing basketball in the gym when he was shot.Well, it looks like he found a solution to his problem...
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.www.thegatewaypundit.com
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
The victim, Elder Michael Fauber, 18, of Dayton, Ohio, is currently serving in the Alabama Birmingham Mission.
According to a statement from Sam Penrod, a spokesman with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Fauber was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
Penrod said that Fauber was taken to UAB Hospital in Birmingham and has undergone surgery. He said that the other missionaries that were present were not physically hurt, but are receiving counseling.
According to their statement, the Church is cooperating with law enforcement and is awaiting additional details from investigators.
According to a press release from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, “upon arrival, it was discovered that a male entered the gymnasium at this location where a group of teenagers was playing basketball and fired shots.”
They are still seeking the shooter and are asking for anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 205-254-7777.
Wonder what really happened there. Birmingham. So, mostly black there. Maybe this elder busted a good move on another dude, during the ballgame, and he didn't like it. Went out to his car and got his gun. Whitey needs to steer clear of black areas. That's the only safe thing to do...and then it's a crapshoot anymore. You never know when a nutjob will just open fire. Hope this young man gets better in a hurry. I've known missionaries that didn't come back home. Extremely tough for the parents. God bless the young man and his family right now.Well, it looks like he found a solution to his problem...
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.www.thegatewaypundit.com
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
The victim, Elder Michael Fauber, 18, of Dayton, Ohio, is currently serving in the Alabama Birmingham Mission.
According to a statement from Sam Penrod, a spokesman with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Fauber was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
Penrod said that Fauber was taken to UAB Hospital in Birmingham and has undergone surgery. He said that the other missionaries that were present were not physically hurt, but are receiving counseling.
According to their statement, the Church is cooperating with law enforcement and is awaiting additional details from investigators.
According to a press release from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, “upon arrival, it was discovered that a male entered the gymnasium at this location where a group of teenagers was playing basketball and fired shots.”
They are still seeking the shooter and are asking for anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 205-254-7777.
It sounded to me like the game was going on and this older fellow came into the church looking for trouble. I think the missionary approached the man, to stop him from going into the gym and the guy opened fire on the missionary. Parenthesis added:Wonder what really happened there. Birmingham. So, mostly black there. Maybe this elder busted a good move on another dude, during the ballgame, and he didn't like it. Went out to his car and got his gun. Whitey needs to steer clear of black areas. That's the only safe thing to do...and then it's a crapshoot anymore. You never know when a nutjob will just open fire. Hope this young man gets better in a hurry. I've known missionaries that didn't come back home. Extremely tough for the parents. God bless the young man and his family right now.