…… Where do I call to report a smarta** Mormon?
- Thread starter AlfaMan
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Meemur
Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Maybe it was just my neighborhood when I lived in East Des Moines, but I was told that they had to be out of our area by 8 pm, and I watched a van pick up the pair in the local library parking lot.
It may also have been a local ordinance. Salespeople weren't supported to knock after 8 pm.
It's only the Baptists who come around where I live now. In the spring, a 30ish couple, dressed in formal clothing, goes door-to-door inviting all of us to their church. They leave behind a printed invitation if no one answers the door. They live in town: I've seen them at the local farmers market, so I know they aren't casing the houses.
It may also have been a local ordinance. Salespeople weren't supported to knock after 8 pm.
It's only the Baptists who come around where I live now. In the spring, a 30ish couple, dressed in formal clothing, goes door-to-door inviting all of us to their church. They leave behind a printed invitation if no one answers the door. They live in town: I've seen them at the local farmers market, so I know they aren't casing the houses.
AlfaMan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It was on the end table 1/2 second reach away. It's always good to have 45 reasons around you.
Meemur
Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
I don't show a weapon. That's just how I was trained. I was also trained not to open the door in the first place if I don't know who is knocking, especially at night, but I'm also female.
TKO
Veteran Member
Yep. I've seen that, too. My thinking was living people. Not the posthumous baptisms. I think LDS have changed the rules around the postumous baptisms, though.Not true.
Mormon Church apologizes for posthumous baptisms
Mormon Church apologizes for posthumous baptismswww.latimes.com
Mormon Church apologizes for posthumous baptisms
BY MITCHELL LANDSBERG, LOS ANGELES TIMES
FEB. 15, 2012
"The Mormon Church apologized Tuesday for a “serious breach of protocol” after it was discovered that the parents of the late Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal were posthumously baptized as Mormons. The church also acknowledged that one of its members tried to baptize posthumously three relatives of Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel.
The efforts, at least in Wiesenthal’s case, violated the terms of an agreement that the church signed in 1995, in which it agreed to stop baptizing Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Wiesenthal and Wiesel gained fame for careers spent grappling with the legacy of the Holocaust, Wiesenthal by hunting down war criminals, Wiesel by writing books that became part of the canon of 20th century literature.
Coming at a time when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in the public eye as perhaps never before, the revelations could prove embarrassing — and, conceivably, influence perceptions of presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s faith.
Posthumous baptism is common in the Mormon Church. The purpose is to ensure that ancestors can join church members in the afterlife. Individual Mormons submit to the church the names of persons they wish to have baptized, then undergo baptism “by proxy.”
However, the practice has sometimes offended those of other faiths whose ancestors are baptized by proxy by enthusiastic Mormons. That is especially true of the families of Jewish victims of the Holocaust, whose outcries prompted the 1995 agreement. Although the Mormon Church now says its policy limits posthumous baptisms to direct ancestors of its members, it acknowledges that the policy is sometimes violated.
The latest revelations came from Helen Radkey, a former Mormon who independently researches Mormon genealogy. Radkey is perhaps best known for discovering in 2009 that President Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, had been baptized after her death.
The church acknowledged that individual Mormons had been baptized on behalf of Wiesenthal’s parents and that other members were apparently preparing to do so for Wiesel’s three relatives.
“We sincerely regret that the actions of an individual member of the church” led to the baptism of Wiesenthal’s parents, Mormon Church spokesman Matthew Purdy said. ""We consider this a serious breach of our protocol and we have suspended indefinitely this person’s ability to access our genealogy records.”
In the case of Wiesel’s family, the process was apparently halted in its early stages.
The church did not identify the members responsible in either case.
Wiesenthal’s mother, Rosa, died in 1942 in the Belzek extermination camp. His father, Asher, had died earlier, in combat in World War I. Simon Wiesenthal died in 2005.
“If Simon were alive today, it’s hard to really describe what his reaction would be,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.
Cooper described the Mormon practice of posthumous baptism as a “beautiful gesture,” when done within Mormon families, but said it was inappropriate and offensive to baptize the Jewish dead, especially those who died in the Holocaust.
“Their physical lives were taken, their communities were destroyed and now somebody is coming along, however well-intentioned, and is suggesting that they’re going to rebrand their souls,” he said. “It just doesn’t compute.”
AlfaMan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It wouldn't have been seen.
Meemur
Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Yep. I'm already known as the "crazy old lady." In this climate, I don't want to add "with a gun" to that, but I'm sure a few of the guys have seen me at the range. I keep a low profile. I generally go early in the morning.
lostinaz
Senior Member
There was a story a while back about fake missionaries robbing people. They had the look down too. Fake Mormon Missionaries Rob Home at Gunpoint
MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
I read the linked story. Two things jumped out at me:
1) One of the two perps was black. Anyone that knows squat about Mormon missionaries would know that very, very few of them assigned to white middle-class suburbs would be anything but white. The victims really should have immediately smelled a rat when they saw a black; think of the black Klansman in "Blazing Saddles" for near-comparable discordance. (See the opening scene in the crude if hilarious comedy movie "Orgazmo" for a decent rendition of them.)
2) The reporter who wrote up the article clearly didn't know much about Mormons, to have expected them to carry Bibles. I went with a Mormon relative to their Sunday services one time, less than a year ago, and I didn't see one Bible (or Cross, for that matter) in the whole place.
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MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
Jehovah Witness doorknockers have a longstanding reputation for ignoring "No Solicitations" signage.
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adgal
Veteran Member
The reporter who wrote up the article clearly didn't know much about Mormons, to have expected them to carry Bibles. I went with a Mormon relative to their Sunday services one time, less than a year ago, and I didn't see one Bible (or Cross, for that matter) in the whole place.
We actually use the King James Version of the Bible - Old and New Testament. Along with scripture we call the Book of Mormon which is a scriptural history of the people in the Americas. But your exactly right, we don’t have crosses in our churches because we worship the resurrected Christ.
We actually use the King James Version of the Bible - Old and New Testament. Along with scripture we call the Book of Mormon which is a scriptural history of the people in the Americas. But your exactly right, we don’t have crosses in our churches because we worship the resurrected Christ.
ohiohippie
Veteran Member
In Ohio LDS elders have curfews.
They don’t go out that late.
They don’t even back a car unless their partner is outside watching.
Highly suspect these were LDS.
They don’t go out that late.
They don’t even back a car unless their partner is outside watching.
Highly suspect these were LDS.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
MS, what you saw was probably people holding “quads”, that is, a book that contained all four holy scriptures recognized by the Mormon faith: The Bible (old and new testament), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
Nowadays, they are just as likely to have their scriptures in digital format on their iPads, but until recently, they would usually carry one huge volume that contained all four of these scriptures.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
And no, you will never see a cross in a Mormon sanctuary. They do not believe in the trinity.
MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
Not so. They only had copies of the Book of Mormon (and plenty of those I saw), I'm pretty sure. I have this assessment BC my relative GAVE me one (they were all the same dark blue, with identical shape and size, and not many of them), and I glanced at it.
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MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
Perhaps, but their version of the Bible would have to be missing the books of Ephesians, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Romans, Corinthians, Revelation, and Matthew, among others.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
MS, with all due respect - you have no idea what you are talking about.
As Adgal has already shared with you, Mormons DO believe in the Bible - both the Old and New Testaments, as contained in the King James version of the Bible.
ALL books of the King James version, including the books that you listed.
Now, it is probably true that they do not interpret all scriptures in those books the same exact way that you do.
And who is to say whether your interpretation is the correct one? Or if it is theirs? Or if both of you are wrong, and the correct interpretation is something else entirely?
It is way above my pay grade to try to make that determination.
What I feel pretty sure of is that they believe their interpretation is as correct as you feel your interpretation is.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yes, the LDS missionaries do have curfews. But those curfews vary from one region to another.
MOST - but not all - missionaries serving in the US mainland are subject to either an 8pm or 9pm curfew. Southern missionaries tend to have a later curfew than northern serving missionaries, because of winter weather conditions.
In other countries, the curfew will be highly influenced by local customs. I remember a returned missionary giving a talk in sacrament service on his return home from some tropical country or another - I don’t remember what country he served in this many years later.
But it was so hot during the daytime that they slept during the day and tracted all night. But knocking on somebody’s hut door at 2 am in the morning was not a problem. 2 pm would have been, but not 2 am.
Everybody else was up all night too, and actively doing what ever was normal for them to do.
That is an extreme example, of course, but it does illustrate how Mormon missionaries - and their curfews - adapt to what is normal for the natives living in the region.
MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
Barry, the Bible is crystal clear on there being no marriage in heaven, that salvation is purely by faith, that if you add or take away from the Bible you go to hell, that if a self-proclaimed prophet is EVER in error when he has his prophet hat on he's a false prophet, etc. Like the prohibitions against gay sex, tattoos, and female clergy, there is no "interpretation" of God's message on those possible to be done for Christians.
Griz3752
Retired, practising Curmudgeon
From your description of the event I'm pretty sure they weren't Mormons; more likely scammers looking for 'donations' &/or a recon team scoping out potential B&E targets.
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Laurane
Canadian Loonie
Most LDS people now have their scriptures on their phones to read in church or class…. That way they have access to many cross references.
Same with hymn books…
helen
Panic Sex Lady
Decades ago two Mormon elders came to my house in a bad neighborhood. Elders at the ages of 19 and 20! It was hot and they were on the verge of heat stroke. They were from a different demographic background and terrified of the gangbangers next door.
I brought them in and fed them cookies and kool-aid. I had a 386 computer with video games. The games were irresistible to boys barely out of high school.
For months they came by when they were tired or hungry. They told me about their families and their dogs. They had to be missionaries for two years in order to get permission to marry. They hated their clothes. They had to leave their apartment and stay out for 12 hours every day, rain or shine. And I was the only non-Mormon in a city of thousands who would let them in
The older boy rotated out, and a new boy started coming. At every visit they said that next time, we needed to study their scripture lessons.. At every visit, the cookies and games were waiting.
One day a serious elder all of 21 years old came with the other two boys. I guess they had to keep logs of visits, and there was a suspicious statistical anomaly at my house. This young man was satisfied the only debauchery going on was confined to snacks under the air conditioner. He saw the games on the computer, looked at me, and said softly, "You shouldn't do this."
I was actually ashamed in front of this serious young man.
He said he had been instructed to provide scripture teaching to me by the elders of the local stake. If I declined, I would never receive another visit from a Mormon. I could come to them at any time if I changed my mind. I said they could baptize me after death, and he said that would not be done in my case unless I converted before death.
I declined instruction. I have never received a visit from a Mormon since that day, even though I moved many times. I'm pretty sure they won't baptize me either.
I brought them in and fed them cookies and kool-aid. I had a 386 computer with video games. The games were irresistible to boys barely out of high school.
For months they came by when they were tired or hungry. They told me about their families and their dogs. They had to be missionaries for two years in order to get permission to marry. They hated their clothes. They had to leave their apartment and stay out for 12 hours every day, rain or shine. And I was the only non-Mormon in a city of thousands who would let them in
The older boy rotated out, and a new boy started coming. At every visit they said that next time, we needed to study their scripture lessons.. At every visit, the cookies and games were waiting.
One day a serious elder all of 21 years old came with the other two boys. I guess they had to keep logs of visits, and there was a suspicious statistical anomaly at my house. This young man was satisfied the only debauchery going on was confined to snacks under the air conditioner. He saw the games on the computer, looked at me, and said softly, "You shouldn't do this."
I was actually ashamed in front of this serious young man.
He said he had been instructed to provide scripture teaching to me by the elders of the local stake. If I declined, I would never receive another visit from a Mormon. I could come to them at any time if I changed my mind. I said they could baptize me after death, and he said that would not be done in my case unless I converted before death.
I declined instruction. I have never received a visit from a Mormon since that day, even though I moved many times. I'm pretty sure they won't baptize me either.
MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
Perhaps, but that would predict few to no Books of Mormon there, either. Instead, I saw a fair number of them there -- and not one single Bible (and I was carefully looking).
Likewise, one room had a large wall display of something like an ancient family tree of over 20 people that appeared to be the equivalent of what in a mainstream Christian church would have been of important names from the Old and New Testaments. I am not that bad with Biblical names, and the only name I recognized was that of Jesus (and the Muslims claim Him, too, albeit also at a lesser level of importance than does the Bible, i.e., also saying he was a man in origin.)
Whatever you guys are, it's something other than what anyone living 200 years ago could conceivably have deemed a Christian.
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AlfaMan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well, it's been a few days since I called and reported the mouthy kids. There hasn't been hide nor hair of them in the complex since then. Maybe because of Thanksgiving; but I tend to think that call to the 800 number did something right. I too would have hated that grandmotherly type I talked to chewing me out.
adgal
Veteran Member
Actually, if you read the Book of Mormon (which is scripture and a spiritual history of the people of the Americas, like the Bible is one of the people in the Middle East) there are quite a few passages that quote directly from Isaiah. The earliest people in the Book of Mormon - Lehi and his family - actually left Jeruselum in about 600 BC - before it was destroyed.
adgal
Veteran Member
I can promise you - they would be thrilled to baptize you. You are an incredible spirit and one of the elect daughters of Heavenly Father. And, just to set the record straight, young men (and young women) are encouraged to go on missions - but if they decide not to go, it does not prevent them from getting married. Although, it's a wonderful chance for young people in the age group that "it's all about them" to learn about true service to others. Thank you for your kindness to those young men.
Sicario
The Executor
Well, it looks like he found a solution to his problem...
www.thegatewaypundit.com
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
The victim, Elder Michael Fauber, 18, of Dayton, Ohio, is currently serving in the Alabama Birmingham Mission.
According to a statement from Sam Penrod, a spokesman with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Fauber was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
Penrod said that Fauber was taken to UAB Hospital in Birmingham and has undergone surgery. He said that the other missionaries that were present were not physically hurt, but are receiving counseling.
According to their statement, the Church is cooperating with law enforcement and is awaiting additional details from investigators.
According to a press release from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, “upon arrival, it was discovered that a male entered the gymnasium at this location where a group of teenagers was playing basketball and fired shots.”
They are still seeking the shooter and are asking for anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 205-254-7777.
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
The victim, Elder Michael Fauber, 18, of Dayton, Ohio, is currently serving in the Alabama Birmingham Mission.
According to a statement from Sam Penrod, a spokesman with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Fauber was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
Penrod said that Fauber was taken to UAB Hospital in Birmingham and has undergone surgery. He said that the other missionaries that were present were not physically hurt, but are receiving counseling.
According to their statement, the Church is cooperating with law enforcement and is awaiting additional details from investigators.
According to a press release from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, “upon arrival, it was discovered that a male entered the gymnasium at this location where a group of teenagers was playing basketball and fired shots.”
They are still seeking the shooter and are asking for anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 205-254-7777.
adgal
Veteran Member
We are praying for this young man who was protecting the teens playing basketball in the gym when he was shot.Well, it looks like he found a solution to his problem...
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
The victim, Elder Michael Fauber, 18, of Dayton, Ohio, is currently serving in the Alabama Birmingham Mission.
According to a statement from Sam Penrod, a spokesman with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Fauber was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
Penrod said that Fauber was taken to UAB Hospital in Birmingham and has undergone surgery. He said that the other missionaries that were present were not physically hurt, but are receiving counseling.
According to their statement, the Church is cooperating with law enforcement and is awaiting additional details from investigators.
According to a press release from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, “upon arrival, it was discovered that a male entered the gymnasium at this location where a group of teenagers was playing basketball and fired shots.”
They are still seeking the shooter and are asking for anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 205-254-7777.
TKO
Veteran Member
Wonder what really happened there. Birmingham. So, mostly black there. Maybe this elder busted a good move on another dude, during the ballgame, and he didn't like it. Went out to his car and got his gun. Whitey needs to steer clear of black areas. That's the only safe thing to do...and then it's a crapshoot anymore. You never know when a nutjob will just open fire. Hope this young man gets better in a hurry. I've known missionaries that didn't come back home. Extremely tough for the parents. God bless the young man and his family right now.Well, it looks like he found a solution to his problem...
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church | The Gateway Pundit | by Cassandra MacDonald
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
18-Year-Old Latter-Day Saint Missionary Shot in Alabama Church
An 18-year-old missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is hospitalized in serious, but stable, condition after being shot in an Alabama church.
The victim, Elder Michael Fauber, 18, of Dayton, Ohio, is currently serving in the Alabama Birmingham Mission.
According to a statement from Sam Penrod, a spokesman with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Fauber was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
Penrod said that Fauber was taken to UAB Hospital in Birmingham and has undergone surgery. He said that the other missionaries that were present were not physically hurt, but are receiving counseling.
According to their statement, the Church is cooperating with law enforcement and is awaiting additional details from investigators.
According to a press release from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office, “upon arrival, it was discovered that a male entered the gymnasium at this location where a group of teenagers was playing basketball and fired shots.”
They are still seeking the shooter and are asking for anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 205-254-7777.
So, my take-away from this is to arm myself with a question-answer that every Mormon should know, but that a imposter like would not know--such as, where is Joseph Smith buried? Yeah, it would take about a minute of research to find out on the internet, but throw the question at the kids and see what happens. I bet very few imposters would take the trouble to do more than put on the "uniform".
Maybe have some verse in mind from the Bible or the Book of Mormon, and ask them to show it to you.
Maybe some of the Mormons on the board can suggest something. But I'd not like to see the "test" made public.
Maybe have some verse in mind from the Bible or the Book of Mormon, and ask them to show it to you.
Maybe some of the Mormons on the board can suggest something. But I'd not like to see the "test" made public.
adgal
Veteran Member
It sounded to me like the game was going on and this older fellow came into the church looking for trouble. I think the missionary approached the man, to stop him from going into the gym and the guy opened fire on the missionary. Parenthesis added:
"Fauber (the missionary) was “with two other missionaries and a group of people interested in learning more about the Church. A weekly athletic activity (sounds like A Young Men/ Young Women activities night) was being held and basketball was being played in the cultural hall. At approximately 8:30 p.m., Elder Fauber spoke with an unknown individual who came into the building during the activity. (not part of the group already playing in the gym.) A few moments later, Elder Fauber was shot multiple times. The shooter then fled.”
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