Elec Sys What's draining my battery?

B

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
I have a 1949 Farmall Cub.
6V system and positive ground.
If I don't start it every couple days, the battery goes dead.

Put the load tester on it and he's dead, Jim.
At first, I was taking the batteries back to Auto Zone and getting a free new one but it was getting to the point I was going back every month or two.

(I don't use the tractor a lot)

I can't believe all these batteries are junk even though Dura Last isn't top of the line.

Any suggestions where to start looking are appreciated.
Thanks
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
It may be the bluetooth, trying to connect when you are away.

They didn't have all the bugs worked out of it back then.


1650.jpg




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B

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
buttie said:
Those electrical systems are so simple it can't be hard to find. I'd guess it's a bad voltage regulator or a chaffed wire. Do you have a Multimeter? They're a great tool for diagnosing this kind of problem.
Click to expand...
I'm not an electrical whiz.
I do have a multimeter.
What would I test?
Ohms?

Thanks for the wiring diagram.
No PTO, though
 
Millwright

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
If it drains down in a coupla days, that's a significant draw.

You need to be able to read amp draw from the battery terminal to its clamp. Problem being, most meters don't handle a lot of current and may smoke...usually a fuse in the meter itself.

Easiest way for me is to measure the amp draw and start disconnecting things.

Hobo Freight has this meter for about 90bux.

64015_W3.jpg


All you have to do is clamp it around the battery cable to get an idea of amp draw.

I just checked mine on my truck, it sees the 1.4 amp draw of the dome lights when I opened the door.
 
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CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
On a '49 my first impression would be that the alternator or generator is not recharging the battery when you do run it. At least to full capacity.

I also remember in a lot of those old cars, one of the first things mechanics looked at was the starter solenoid.

Other than that, I know that a Garmin GPS pluggeded into the lighter socket will drain one too.
 
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Jackpine Savage

Jackpine Savage

Veteran Member
buttie said:
Looking at that schematic, not likely the voltage regulator since it's off when the key is. Had a short in a starter solenoid on a JD 1010 once that would drain the battery.
Click to expand...

Unless someone rewired it. I've run into that before.

First thing is do a good visual and poke around, move around the wires and see if you can spot any bare wires.
 
Shadow

Shadow

Swift, Silent,...Sleepy
I would disconnect the battery when not using it until it is fixed. Batteries do not like being run flat and it shortens their life.

The simplest thing would be to place a test light, or rig the smallest 6volt lamp you can find, between the battery and disconnected battery terminal. It should illuminate or you need something smaller. Then pull fuses one at a time. Then disconnect things like brake light power or headlight power etc until the test light goes out. Then you have to figure out what is wrong with that system and fix it.

Shadow
 
R

raven

TB Fanatic
Millwright said:
It may be the bluetooth, trying to connect when you are away.

They didn't have all the bugs worked out of it back then.


1650.jpg




Wiring Diagram and Schematics

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www.caretxdigital.com


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Click to expand...

Border Collie Dad said:
I'm not an electrical whiz.
I do have a multimeter.
What would I test?
Ohms?

Thanks for the wiring diagram.
No PTO, though
Click to expand...
Would not recommend using that diagram. Look at the battery in the diagram - it isn't positive ground. Not sure it is 6V or Farmall.
Below is a link to Farmall 6 Volt wiring diagrams . . . but you have to read the paragraphs and the images ARE NOT all Farmall 6 volt.

1953 farmall cub wiring diagram - Wiring Diagram and Schematics

Understanding the 1953 Farmall Cub Wiring DiagramThe 1953 Farmall Cub is a small and agile tractor that has been in use since 1953. It is known for its solid construction and easy maneuverability, making it an ideal choice for those who need to move materials or work the land on a daily basis...
www.caretxdigital.com
These two are positive ground - but not sure if either are for 1949 Farmall Cub. First is basic. Second even has a tail light. And these have "generators" not alternators (like your car). What's on your tractor? The third image is a generator to alternator conversion.
Make sure you are working with the right schematic.
(go to the FarmallCub forum and join it)

49 Cub Wiring Help - Farmall Cub

www.farmallcub.com

1690483143325.png
1690483193812.png
Generator to alternator conversion
1690484234303.png
 
R

raven

TB Fanatic
It should have a cutout, or Relay, on top of the generator. They are not a voltage regulator, you have to select the charging rate you want, with the 4 position switch.
The Cub owner's manual explains it.

A 1949 Cub would have a magneto, unless someone changed it to a Battery Ignition unit.

Below is the 1949 Cub owner's manual. The experts on here recommend reading it. It has much info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication. There is a table of contents on page 1.
It explains how to use the 4 position switch on page 34, and there is a wiring diagram there also.
Page 59 in the manual has a wiring diagram.

'49 Farmall Cub owners manual.
 
BornFree

BornFree

Came This Far
Are you sure it is charging when it is running? Use an ammeter to check for current drawl when the machine is off. Sometimes a relay in the the voltage regulator can stick causing a constant drawl through the generator when turned off.
Or as others have said. Just pull off the battery terminal when you park it.
 
R

raven

TB Fanatic
We had a blade disconnect switch on the Massey Ferguson like this but it was a 12 volt positive ground "top post".
1690493522616.png
Clamp on the left attaches to battery.
Post on the right attaches to tractor cable.
$15.00
Ask at tractor supply for one for your battery.
 

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TheSearcher

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Border Collie Dad said:
I have a 1949 Farmall Cub.
6V system and positive ground.
If I don't start it every couple days, the battery goes dead.

Put the load tester on it and he's dead, Jim.
At first, I was taking the batteries back to Auto Zone and getting a free new one but it was getting to the point I was going back every month or two.

(I don't use the tractor a lot)I

I can't believe all these batteries are junk even though Dura Last isn't top of the line.

Any suggestions where to start looking are appreciated.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Airplane-Movie1-500x312.jpg
 
P

Publius

TB Fanatic
The problem is likely the voltage regulator. They do make six volt alternators and they put out more at idle than the old generators at idle. I have worked with a number of older cars and trucks and few the voltage regulator was not working correctly and the darn thing was sending battery voltage to the generator when it was shut down causing the generator to act like a electric motor and draining the battery.
It could even be a bad light switch thats if the tractor came with lights.
 
B

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
raven said:
hese two are positive ground - but not sure if either are for 1949 Farmall Cub. First is basic. Second even has a tail light. And these have "generators" not alternators (like your car). What's on your tractor?
Click to expand...
I have lights but they have been disconnected for many years
BornFree said:
Are you sure it is charging when it is running?
Click to expand...
Only by looking at the gauge.
It indicates charging.
I did verify the light switch was in the proper position.
I think the gauge may be an ammeter.

I have a generator and not a magneto
 
BornFree

BornFree

Came This Far
Border Collie Dad said:
I have lights but they have been disconnected for many years

Only by looking at the gauge.
It indicates charging.
I did verify the light switch was in the proper position.
I think the gauge may be an ammeter.

I have a generator and not a magneto
Click to expand...
I knew it would be a generator on that something that old. But the regulator has a couple of relays in it. If one of them sticks then current flows back into the generator coil when the engine is off. The built in Ammeter is good to show charging but it is not sensitive enough to show a slow current drain. For that you should use a digital meter in current mode. Hook it between the battery and the battery terminal(And don't try to crank the engine when you do that). You might start in the Amp range, but ultimately you are possibly looking for milliamps of unexpected drain. With no digital electronics when there should be no current drain at all. Zero, even in the milliamp range when everything is shut off.
 
Doc1

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If you are not worried about keeping the tractor original for entry in shows/contests, I'd recommend that you completely do away with the generator, regulator, six volt system and positive ground.

Replace all of that with a GM 10SI alternator. The 10SI is self-contained, internally regulated, negatively grounded, 12 volts and cheap.

At most you'll have to fabricate a mounting bracket and possibly experiment with the alternator pulleys to get the desired RPM.

Best
Doc
 
B

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
Doc1 said:
If you are not worried about keeping the tractor original for entry in shows/contests, I'd recommend that you completely do away with the generator, regulator, six volt system and positive ground.

Replace all of that with a GM 10SI alternator. The 10SI is self-contained, internally regulated, negatively grounded, 12 volts and cheap.

At most you'll have to fabricate a mounting bracket and possibly experiment with the alternator pulleys to get the desired RPM.

Best
Doc
Click to expand...
Not worried about that, Doc1.
But would like to keep it, mostly, original for no good reason.

Suspecting that it, originally, had a magneto.
 
Macgyver

Macgyver

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Border Collie Dad said:
I'm not an electrical whiz.
I do have a multimeter.
What would I test?
Ohms?

Thanks for the wiring diagram.
No PTO, though
Click to expand...
Pto clutch staying engaged was my first thought looking at the schematic.
But not having it rules it out.

Possibly the starting solenoid passing a little juice through when off.

Check the starter side of the terminal on the solenoid to the positive terminal on the battery and look for juice.
 
B

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
Here's where I am right now.
Charged all night with the positive terminal (ground) disconnected.
With multimeter:
Across both terminals-6.31 volts
From pos terminal to ground-0.1
From pos terminal to disconnected battery terminal-0 Amp flow
Voltage drop measured by meter across terminals while cranking engine. Meter kept jumping from 0 to 6ish
 
Luke

Luke

Silent Grey Fellow
I have a '53 Cub and '53 Super H (both 6 volt, pos ground, with generators) , and have been through similar issues. 6.31 volts is a good reading for a battery at rest. You should see around 6.7 volts at the battery with the engine running and a good charging system. The ammeter (the only gage on the Cub dashboard) should move left of center when you turn on the ignition (prior to engine start). After engine start the ammeter should move to the right side of center, settling to just right of center once the engine has been running for a few minutes.

I had a bear of a time getting my charging systems to work properly. Turns out the cheap voltage regulators I bought at Tractor Supply, CaseIH dealer, auto part store were junk. I ended up going to Brillman.com for USA-made units at 2-3 times the price. But they work.
 
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