Intergator
SWM
I have to wonder how much a mask and gloves would help. If the strain is virulent and it gets on your clothes, in your car, hair, etc. you would have to go through a decontamination chamber every time you went home.Fleataxi said:
The global human H5N1 pandemic might have started.. Something is happening in China
- Thread starter NoCarrier
- Start date
Intergator said:
Unfortunately, if you really have to go outside and don't want to contaminate your house when you come back, you need to build a decontamination room before you enter the house. You need to remove your clothes and I mean everything. I understand that it might sound ridiculous, but that's going to be part of the "survival" plan.
You will need to take a shower of water and javex formula. I don't have the exact recipe, but I am sure you can find it on this board.
truthseeker
Membership Revoked
Hogwash, this isnt a normal progressive coversation as its made out to be. If they where seeing stuff happen they would be more descriptive. This is BS.
I do think a pandemic could occur if the virus makes the jump to human to human transmission.
Im sure the links to the original converstation have been "taken down".
I do think a pandemic could occur if the virus makes the jump to human to human transmission.
Im sure the links to the original converstation have been "taken down".
I have read in several forums that N-95 masks will not prevent the bird flu virus.
It was suggested that the N-100 or the Nano mask would work better. Would
someone with a medical background please clarify this point once and for
all. I have a great fear of misinformation being given unintentionally.
I have also read that goggles should be worn.
It was suggested that the N-100 or the Nano mask would work better. Would
someone with a medical background please clarify this point once and for
all. I have a great fear of misinformation being given unintentionally.
I have also read that goggles should be worn.
SCR1 said:
I am NOT suggesting you get rid of them, but buy more of everything.
I still challenge anyone to wear any type of respiratory protection for THREE hours.
Give it a try for three hours, make it easy, just find a comfortable chair and read a book for three hours. A good prepper trys out all of their preps. Come back here and tell us how you did, give us some real life experience.
Don't be embrassed if it becomes an exercise of real willpower. My job requires me to train, drill and wear respiratory protection, usually sitting at rest I can suck a 30 minute SCBA bottle dry in 20 minutes and often drain it in under 15 minutes. Real easy to do if your under stress and heavy labor. After 30 minutes with a mask on my face I am so happy to get that damm thing off. I've often walked out of the hot zone and as soon as I've gone though decon and I'm in the doffing area I have my mask off inside my suit! before the guys can get my suit unzipped.
The average virus is a hundred times tinier than the average bacteria. N95 and P100 masks will NOT filter out any virus, but then they don't need to. Viruses and bacteria are usually clumpt together and carried through the air on the tiniest droplets of water I'm guessing these drops are a couple of hundred thousand times bigger than a virus. These Invisible droplets that are filtered out by a N95 fairly well. However the mask will absorb moisture and tend to saturate at a point in time and make breathing through the mask difficult. You need to change masks. Then of course what happens if you get this terrible itch around your nose and reach under your mask to scratch it or you rub your tired or watery eyes...and you've got the flu. ...keep your hands away from your face (noes, eyes, mouth) at all costs...
The Flying Dutchman
Deceased
Double_A said:
Hummmmmm
Sounds like you have been there; done that.
But FWIW - ALL the bug hunters I have talked with/to say that this bug (H5N1) requires a N-100 mask (at the minium) to be safely protected...
And yes, I too. Have worn face masks (in poisonious air enviroments). for up to 8 hours a day - not fun! Not fun at all. But still, it's better than dying...
Alert, another 'bug' (virus?) has resurfaced.
Three weeks ago my wife came down with Whooping Caugh. She finally went to the doctor day before yesterday and he diagnosed it. He says that CDC has put out a warning to the medical community to expect a major increase in the incidence of this disease. They are of the view that our immunity from shots taken as a child has worn off. Booster shots are available for those interested.
My wife has essentially been on her back for three weeks, and really sick, sick! I urge everyone to check WebMD for information on the disease, and then follow the recommendations to prevent contracting Whooping Caugh.
FWIW,
Woolly
Three weeks ago my wife came down with Whooping Caugh. She finally went to the doctor day before yesterday and he diagnosed it. He says that CDC has put out a warning to the medical community to expect a major increase in the incidence of this disease. They are of the view that our immunity from shots taken as a child has worn off. Booster shots are available for those interested.
My wife has essentially been on her back for three weeks, and really sick, sick! I urge everyone to check WebMD for information on the disease, and then follow the recommendations to prevent contracting Whooping Caugh.
FWIW,
Woolly
Christian for Israel
Knight of Jerusalem
neither the n-95 nor the n-100 is a 100% guarantee against getting the flu, but they're better than nothing. the only REAL way to keep from getting sick is to quarantine yourself against ALL contact with everyone you don't KNOW to be uninfected (basically those in the shelter with you).
the thing is, viruses are like poison or radiation in that one single unit won't hurt you, but accumulating many over a short period of time will. if only a few viri get in your system your bodies' natural defenses will destroy them, but when many get in at once they overwhelm your ability to fight them off. the masks reduce the number of individual viri that get in to your body, meaning you can be exposed a little more than you could without them. but, reducing that exposure with other common sense precautions is necessary also, for instance, limiting your trips outside and standing 10 feet away from everyone (100 feet from anyone who's obviously sick.
i see the masks only being used if for some reason i MUST go out for something, but we plan on bugging in for up to 90 days in the event that this bug comes here.
the thing is, viruses are like poison or radiation in that one single unit won't hurt you, but accumulating many over a short period of time will. if only a few viri get in your system your bodies' natural defenses will destroy them, but when many get in at once they overwhelm your ability to fight them off. the masks reduce the number of individual viri that get in to your body, meaning you can be exposed a little more than you could without them. but, reducing that exposure with other common sense precautions is necessary also, for instance, limiting your trips outside and standing 10 feet away from everyone (100 feet from anyone who's obviously sick.
i see the masks only being used if for some reason i MUST go out for something, but we plan on bugging in for up to 90 days in the event that this bug comes here.
Shakey said:
Yep you can do a lot if you have too. Always nice to know what the pitfalls and problems will be ahead of time by practicing. Everyone with tyvek suits in their preps should try wearing one fully zipped up, gloves taped on and a full face respirator for 3 or 4 hours just to see what that is like. For god sake just don't forget to drink plenty of water, I'd say a half liter per hour should be a good start.
Anjou said:What kind of SCBA? I'd imagine smaller than underwater SCUBA usually. Also, how does the air from a SCBA compare to plain old air in O2 content, etc.? Are those tanks and the air available OTC or just for special people? (OK, no more questions.)
Well I've worn SCBA's made by North (my least favorite) to Survivair, Scott (their masks are my favorite with the mesh instead of rubber straps that tear out hair) and lately Carin's high pressure stuff (those are real nice). As for size & weight they are about the same really. Although the Carin's we now use are real light and comfortable.
Air is the same, we use get our tanks filled at a local SCBA shop they also do our tank hydrotesting. There are some shops that will on special request put an extra o2 boost in the mix, but I'm not sure that's a good idea.
JohnGaltfla
#NeverTrump
Roxann said:
Ditto. I've seen this debate back and forth on these threads. Can someone provide some scientific data to give us the right answer.
Please.
There is not much reason to think colloidal silver is effective against viruses. It is against bacteria so might be helpful against secondary infections from the flu. I have seen some minor anecdotal claims that it might be effective against viruses, but I wouldn't count on it. But if made properly it's harmless so since I make my own and have been using it for various things for probably 15 years I'd take it if there was a flu pandemic.
Here is several snippits from the CDC site, links are provided for each.
Assessment of Current Situation
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/asia.htm
The avian influenza A (H5N1) epizootic outbreak in Asia is not expected to diminish significantly in the short term. It is likely that H5N1 infection among birds has become endemic to the region and that human infections will continue to occur. So far, no sustained human-to-human transmission of the H5N1 virus has been identified, and no evidence for genetic reassortment between human and avian influenza virus genes has been found; however, the epizootic outbreak in Asia poses an important public health threat.
If these H5N1 viruses gain the ability for efficient and sustained transmission between humans, there is little preexisting natural immunity to H5N1 infection in the human population, and an influenza pandemic could result, with high rates of illness and death. In addition, genetic sequencing of influenza A (H5N1) virus samples from human cases in Vietnam and Thailand shows resistance to the antiviral medications amantadine and rimantadine, two of the medications commonly used for treatment of influenza. This would leave two remaining antiviral medications (oseltamivir and zanamivir) that should still be effective against currently circulating strains of H5N1 virus. Efforts to produce a vaccine that would be effective against this strain of influenza A (H5N1) virus are under way. Vaccine reference virus strains already have been made and provided to manufacturers to produce pilot lots for human clinical trials as well as to produce a larger quantity of H5N1 vaccine, but mass production and availability of such a vaccine is some time off.
Recent research findings give further cause for concern. New research suggests that currently circulating strains of H5 viruses are becoming more capable of causing disease (pathogenic) for mammals than earlier H5 viruses and are becoming more widespread in birds in the region. One study found that ducks infected with H5N1 are now shedding more virus for longer periods of time without showing any symptoms of illness. This has implications for the role of ducks in transmitting disease to other birds and possibly to humans as well. Additionally, other findings have documented H5 infection among pigs in China and H5 infection in felines (experimental infection in housecats in the Netherlands and isolation of H5N1 viruses from infected tigers and leopards in Thailand ), suggesting that cats could host or transmit the infection. These finding are particularly worrisome in light of the fact that reassortment of avian influenza genomes is most likely to occur when these viruses demonstrate a capacity to infect multiple species, as is now the case in Asia.
Information on Influenza A (H5N1)
• Background: Influenza A (H5N1) is a subtype of the type A influenza virus. Wild birds are the natural hosts of the virus -- hence, the name avian influenza or bird flu. The virus was first isolated from birds (terns) in South Africa in 1961. The virus circulates among birds worldwide. It is very contagious among birds and can be deadly to them, particularly domesticated birds like chickens.
• Infection: The virus does not typically infect humans. In 1997, however, the first instance of direct bird-to-human transmission of influenza A (H5N1) virus was documented during an outbreak of avian influenza among poultry in Hong Kong; the virus caused severe respiratory illness in 18 people, of whom 6 died. Since that time, there have been other instances of H5N1 infection among humans. However, H5N1 viruses thus far have not been capable of efficient human-to-human transmission; health officials continue to monitor the situation closely for evidence of H5N1 transmission between people.
• Spread: Infected birds shed virus in saliva, nasal secretions, and feces. Avian influenza viruses spread among susceptible birds when they have contact with contaminated excretions. It is believed that most cases of H5N1 infection in humans have resulted from contact with infected poultry or contaminated surfaces.
Preparing for the Next Pandemic
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/gen-info/pandemics.htm
Many scientists believe it is only a matter of time until the next influenza pandemic occurs. The severity of the next pandemic cannot be predicted, but modeling studies suggest that its effect in the United States could be severe. In the absence of any control measures (vaccination or drugs), it has been estimated that in the United States a “medium–level” pandemic could cause 89,000 to 207,000 deaths, between 314,000 and 734,000 hospitalizations, 18 to 42 million outpatient visits, and another 20 to 47 million people being sick. Between 15% and 35% of the U.S. population could be affected by an influenza pandemic, and the economic impact could range between $71.3 and $166.5 billion.
Assessment of Current Situation
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/asia.htm
The avian influenza A (H5N1) epizootic outbreak in Asia is not expected to diminish significantly in the short term. It is likely that H5N1 infection among birds has become endemic to the region and that human infections will continue to occur. So far, no sustained human-to-human transmission of the H5N1 virus has been identified, and no evidence for genetic reassortment between human and avian influenza virus genes has been found; however, the epizootic outbreak in Asia poses an important public health threat.
If these H5N1 viruses gain the ability for efficient and sustained transmission between humans, there is little preexisting natural immunity to H5N1 infection in the human population, and an influenza pandemic could result, with high rates of illness and death. In addition, genetic sequencing of influenza A (H5N1) virus samples from human cases in Vietnam and Thailand shows resistance to the antiviral medications amantadine and rimantadine, two of the medications commonly used for treatment of influenza. This would leave two remaining antiviral medications (oseltamivir and zanamivir) that should still be effective against currently circulating strains of H5N1 virus. Efforts to produce a vaccine that would be effective against this strain of influenza A (H5N1) virus are under way. Vaccine reference virus strains already have been made and provided to manufacturers to produce pilot lots for human clinical trials as well as to produce a larger quantity of H5N1 vaccine, but mass production and availability of such a vaccine is some time off.
Recent research findings give further cause for concern. New research suggests that currently circulating strains of H5 viruses are becoming more capable of causing disease (pathogenic) for mammals than earlier H5 viruses and are becoming more widespread in birds in the region. One study found that ducks infected with H5N1 are now shedding more virus for longer periods of time without showing any symptoms of illness. This has implications for the role of ducks in transmitting disease to other birds and possibly to humans as well. Additionally, other findings have documented H5 infection among pigs in China and H5 infection in felines (experimental infection in housecats in the Netherlands and isolation of H5N1 viruses from infected tigers and leopards in Thailand ), suggesting that cats could host or transmit the infection. These finding are particularly worrisome in light of the fact that reassortment of avian influenza genomes is most likely to occur when these viruses demonstrate a capacity to infect multiple species, as is now the case in Asia.
Information on Influenza A (H5N1)
• Background: Influenza A (H5N1) is a subtype of the type A influenza virus. Wild birds are the natural hosts of the virus -- hence, the name avian influenza or bird flu. The virus was first isolated from birds (terns) in South Africa in 1961. The virus circulates among birds worldwide. It is very contagious among birds and can be deadly to them, particularly domesticated birds like chickens.
• Infection: The virus does not typically infect humans. In 1997, however, the first instance of direct bird-to-human transmission of influenza A (H5N1) virus was documented during an outbreak of avian influenza among poultry in Hong Kong; the virus caused severe respiratory illness in 18 people, of whom 6 died. Since that time, there have been other instances of H5N1 infection among humans. However, H5N1 viruses thus far have not been capable of efficient human-to-human transmission; health officials continue to monitor the situation closely for evidence of H5N1 transmission between people.
• Spread: Infected birds shed virus in saliva, nasal secretions, and feces. Avian influenza viruses spread among susceptible birds when they have contact with contaminated excretions. It is believed that most cases of H5N1 infection in humans have resulted from contact with infected poultry or contaminated surfaces.
Preparing for the Next Pandemic
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/gen-info/pandemics.htm
Many scientists believe it is only a matter of time until the next influenza pandemic occurs. The severity of the next pandemic cannot be predicted, but modeling studies suggest that its effect in the United States could be severe. In the absence of any control measures (vaccination or drugs), it has been estimated that in the United States a “medium–level” pandemic could cause 89,000 to 207,000 deaths, between 314,000 and 734,000 hospitalizations, 18 to 42 million outpatient visits, and another 20 to 47 million people being sick. Between 15% and 35% of the U.S. population could be affected by an influenza pandemic, and the economic impact could range between $71.3 and $166.5 billion.
Fuzzychick
Membership Revoked
JohnGaltfla said:
John,sorry tired...try googling it...
CDC RECOMMENDATIONS
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/professional/protect-guid.htm
The following interim recommendations are based on what are deemed optimal precautions for protecting individuals involved in the response to an outbreak of high pathogenic avian influenza from illness and the risk of viral reassortment (i.e., mixing of genes from human and avian viruses). The health risk to humans from low pathogenic avian influenza viruses is less well established, but is likely to be lower. Nonetheless, it is considered prudent to take all possible precautions to the extent feasible when individuals have contact with birds infected by any avian influenza virus as part of control and eradication activities.
Basic Infection Control
• Educate workers about the importance of strict adherence to and proper use of hand hygiene after contact with infected or exposed poultry, contact with contaminated surfaces, or after removing gloves. Hand hygiene should consist of washing with soap and water for 15-20 seconds or the use of other standard hand-disinfection procedures as specified by state government, industry, or USDA outbreak-response guidelines.
• Ensure that personnel have access to appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE), instructions and training in PPE use, and respirator fit-testing (detailed below).
Personal Protective Equipment
• Disposable gloves made of lightweight nitrile or vinyl or heavy duty rubber work gloves that can be disinfected should be worn. To protect against dermatitis, which can occur from prolonged exposure of the skin to moisture in gloves caused by perspiration, a thin cotton glove can be worn inside the external glove. Gloves should be changed if torn or otherwise damaged. Remove gloves promptly after use, before touching non-contaminated items and environmental surfaces.
• Protective clothing, preferably disposable outer garments or coveralls, an impermeable apron or surgical gowns with long cuffed sleeves, plus an impermeable apron should be worn.
• Disposable protective shoe covers or rubber or polyurethane boots that can be cleaned and disinfected should be worn.
• Safety goggles should be worn to protect the mucous membranes of eyes.
• Disposable particulate respirators (e.g., N-95, N-99, or N-100) are the minimum level of respiratory protection that should be worn. This level or higher respiratory protection may already be in use in poultry operations due to other hazards that exist in the environment (e.g., other vapors and dusts). Workers must be fit-tested to the respirator model that they will wear and also know how to check the face-piece to face seal. Workers who cannot wear a disposable particulate respirator because of facial hair or other fit limitations should wear a loose-fitting (i.e., helmeted or hooded) powered air purifying respirator equipped with high-efficiency filters.
• Disposable PPE should be properly discarded, and non-disposable PPE should be cleaned and disinfected as specified in state government, industry, or USDA outbreak-response guidelines. Hand hygiene measures should be performed after removal of PPE.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/professional/protect-guid.htm
The following interim recommendations are based on what are deemed optimal precautions for protecting individuals involved in the response to an outbreak of high pathogenic avian influenza from illness and the risk of viral reassortment (i.e., mixing of genes from human and avian viruses). The health risk to humans from low pathogenic avian influenza viruses is less well established, but is likely to be lower. Nonetheless, it is considered prudent to take all possible precautions to the extent feasible when individuals have contact with birds infected by any avian influenza virus as part of control and eradication activities.
Basic Infection Control
• Educate workers about the importance of strict adherence to and proper use of hand hygiene after contact with infected or exposed poultry, contact with contaminated surfaces, or after removing gloves. Hand hygiene should consist of washing with soap and water for 15-20 seconds or the use of other standard hand-disinfection procedures as specified by state government, industry, or USDA outbreak-response guidelines.
• Ensure that personnel have access to appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE), instructions and training in PPE use, and respirator fit-testing (detailed below).
Personal Protective Equipment
• Disposable gloves made of lightweight nitrile or vinyl or heavy duty rubber work gloves that can be disinfected should be worn. To protect against dermatitis, which can occur from prolonged exposure of the skin to moisture in gloves caused by perspiration, a thin cotton glove can be worn inside the external glove. Gloves should be changed if torn or otherwise damaged. Remove gloves promptly after use, before touching non-contaminated items and environmental surfaces.
• Protective clothing, preferably disposable outer garments or coveralls, an impermeable apron or surgical gowns with long cuffed sleeves, plus an impermeable apron should be worn.
• Disposable protective shoe covers or rubber or polyurethane boots that can be cleaned and disinfected should be worn.
• Safety goggles should be worn to protect the mucous membranes of eyes.
• Disposable particulate respirators (e.g., N-95, N-99, or N-100) are the minimum level of respiratory protection that should be worn. This level or higher respiratory protection may already be in use in poultry operations due to other hazards that exist in the environment (e.g., other vapors and dusts). Workers must be fit-tested to the respirator model that they will wear and also know how to check the face-piece to face seal. Workers who cannot wear a disposable particulate respirator because of facial hair or other fit limitations should wear a loose-fitting (i.e., helmeted or hooded) powered air purifying respirator equipped with high-efficiency filters.
• Disposable PPE should be properly discarded, and non-disposable PPE should be cleaned and disinfected as specified in state government, industry, or USDA outbreak-response guidelines. Hand hygiene measures should be performed after removal of PPE.