ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The more I study this the more it looks like 1974 with the 40,000 rukskie tanks set up to pour out of the Fulda Gap and crush NATO. We were told by our officers that NUKE LAUNCHES ON ADVANCING RUSKIE FORCES WERE SOP. We couldn't hold them conventionally so just launch, back then they were mobile pershings.

And all the :poop: and smack talking will vanish when Kiev or any other city anyplace takes a direct hit from a what do they use now, 150 Mega ton, or ten times Hiroshima at 15?

Little children playing with loaded guns. Baldwin on steroids.

Austin, Milley will likely PANIC once the ruskies are over pouring over from Finland to Romania. Putin will go for it all, and why shouldn't he? See anybody in the west who has the cajones to even make any attempt to actually stop him? I don't bait the bear and end up like that filmmaker in Alaska did.



"Little children playing with loaded guns. Baldwin on steroids."

Exactly. The guns are far larger, and the stakes much higher; but yes, this is what it is. Two boys yelling at each other, just itching to beat each other up. Incidentally killing millions in the process.
For those who watch the airspace; keep an eye on the E-6's, the E-4's, RC-135s and in Ukraine, the J-STARS planes. Got a feeling those crews are going to be getting a lot of flight time very soon, if it hasn't started already.
 

jward

passin' thru
Nolan Peterson
@nolanwpeterson
Senior editor for
@CoffeeOrDieMag
, based in Ukraine since 2014. Former USAF special operations pilot, author, occasional adventurer.

Ukrainecasematepublishers.com/why-soldiers-m…
Joined February 2009
3,556 Following
20.5K Followers


Nolan Peterson
@nolanwpeterson



Spent the day with Kyiv's territorial defense force. Key takeaways: - If Russia invades & tries to hold ground, Ukrainian civilians will wage an irregular resistance campaign - Although initially skeptical, Ukrainians increasingly perceive a major offensive as a realistic threat
-Civilians’ desire to fight is not bluster. The country has been at war for 7.5 years. The TDF volunteers harbor no naive, romantic attitudes about combat — just a sober, resigned acceptance that a wider war is now possible.
View: https://twitter.com/nolanwpeterson/status/1467168069323739137?s=20
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Hmm, people still aren't getting it. Putin will, at a minimum push west to the Dniepper river and kiev.
All this armed militia talk ignores reality. There will be no partisan war between ukie civilians and russian forces because russia will push them ALL west over the river.

Gang, there will not be one armed ukie, regular military or militia anywhere from the current eastern ukrainian border and Russia all the way west to the river.
Putin will kick everybody out and you will see columns of refugees heading into central europe.

All villages will be emptied, given a few hours to leave or else. If not, then putin will simply kill anybody still there. And that is how he will cleanse the eastern ukraine.
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
This is not our fight. I understand all the issues on both sides. Be that as it may, Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltics should be well armed neutral buffer states. But that altruistic view point is a pipe dream. Go ahead Western man, offer up your children.
 
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mecoastie

Veteran Member
Hmm, people still aren't getting it. Putin will, at a minimum push west to the Dniepper river and kiev.
All this armed militia talk ignores reality. There will be no partisan war between ukie civilians and russian forces because russia will push them ALL west over the river.

Gang, there will not be one armed ukie, regular military or militia anywhere from the current eastern ukrainian border and Russia all the way west to the river.
Putin will kick everybody out and you will see columns of refugees heading into central europe.

All villages will be emptied, given a few hours to leave or else. If not, then putin will simply kill anybody still there. And that is how he will cleanse the eastern ukraine.

So if the Chinese were to land on the West Coast are you just going to run east or are you going to try to stand and fight, even though it may mean your death? At this stage of the game most of the folks there know what the result will be. I think they get it. Probably more so than those of us sitting comfortably a half world away.
 

jward

passin' thru
Russia Bolsters Supply Lines, Deploys Medical Units Near Ukraine As Invasion Fears Grow: Report (Updated)
Logistical and medical capabilities would be critical for Russia to sustain any future major operation in Ukraine that could last weeks or more.
By Joseph Trevithick December 3, 2021

U.S. intelligence shows that the Russian military has established significant supply lines for fuel and other support, which now also include various medical units, for its forces arrayed around the country's borders with Ukraine, according to a report today from CNN. Though much attention has been paid to the Kremlin's positioning of heavy armor, artillery, and even long-range missiles in these same areas, logistical and medical support would be essential for sustaining any new major military intervention into Ukrainian territory.
Fears that Russia could be preparing to stage a new invasion of Ukraine as early as January have been building for weeks now. NATO, of which Ukraine is not a member, pushed back against Russian President Vladimir Putin's setting of new "red lines" over the alliance's potential involvement in the brewing crisis earlier this week. Russia and Ukraine have already been deeply embroiled in a conflict since 2014, when the Kremlin launched an operation to seize the Crimean Peninsula and then subsequently deployed troops to actively support ostensibly local "separatists" fighting the government in Kyiv.

Russia, location unknown. The video appeared on November 27.

Trucks, BMDs, 2S9 Nona-S self-propelled mortars, comms (?) vehicles. VDV transport.

"Echelon goes to the south"pic.twitter.com/RyqtKXibIC
— Status-6 (@Archer83Able) November 27, 2021
Large convoy of military trucks driving (heading north) through the outskirts of Labinsk in Krasnodar Krai, southern Russia on October 29. pic.twitter.com/daMDyvNGnC
— Status-6 (@Archer83Able) October 31, 2021

"The current levels of equipment stationed in the area could supply front-line forces for seven to 10 days and other support units for as long as a month, according to one source familiar with the matter," according to CNN. The outlet said that a senior official in President Joe Biden's administration had also disclosed that the U.S. government had "seen additional Russia troops added to the border region in recent days," but did not provide any additional details.

"Russia's capabilities would be equivalent to a modern-day blitzkrieg," Rep. Mike Quigley, an Illinois Democrat who is on the House Intelligence Committee, told CNN, adding that the Russians have positioned themselves to attack Ukraine "when they want."





NATO Pushes Back Against Russian President Putin's 'Red Lines' Over Ukraine By Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone

Ukrainian Troops Have Been Firing American-Made Javelin Missiles At Russian-Backed Forces By Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone

Ukraine Strikes Russian-Backed Forces Using Turkish-Made TB2 Drones For The First Time By Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone

Russian Gunboats Head To The Black Sea To Join Military Buildup Near Ukraine By Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone

Russian Armor Floods Toward Border With Ukraine Amid Fears Of An "Imminent Crisis" By Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone


There has been at least one classified briefing regarding the situation in and around Ukraine this week given to some members of the U.S. House of Representatives, which took place on Dec. 1. "It doesn’t appear that the U.S. has seen any substantial changes to Russian posture in the last week or so," CNN's Katie Bo Lillis Tweeted afterward based on comments from the lawmakers who were present. This would indicate that the newly reported arrival of logistical and medical elements in the region either occurred prior to that or that it happened very recently.

Small handful of House lawmakers just emerged from a classified briefing on Ukraine. Still lots of concern about potential military action by Russia, but it doesn’t appear that the U.S. has seen any substantial changes to Russian posture in the last week or so.
— Katie Bo Lillis (@KatieBoLillis) December 1, 2021

Regardless of the exact timeline, that those supporting elements are now near Russia's borders with Ukraine is a significant development. It is a notable difference between publicly available reports about the situation now as compared to the deployment of large numbers of Russian forces to the same general region earlier this year. Those previous troop movements had also prompted concerns that the Kremlin was preparing to launch a new large-scale military operation against its neighbor.
"Pentagon officials say the current intelligence does not indicate that this land force is prepared for offensive operations in the next few days, because there is no evidence of the logistics, spare parts, fuel, and medical capability that would need to be pre-positioned," CNN had reported on April 14, amid that previous spike in tensions. "But the concern remains that there are also no indicators of Russia reducing its forces or signaling a de-escalation. And events on the ground can change quickly, officials caution, noting that the intelligence assessments typically project out for only a few days at a time."

Contrast this with CNN's reporting on April 14 during the spring buildup that "there is no evidence of the logistics, spare parts, fuel and medical capability that would need to be pre-positioned."US and other NATO members pledge support to Ukraine while walking fine line with Russia https://t.co/NpAGyMTOPW pic.twitter.com/5yQElAUMl5
— Rob Lee (@RALee85) December 3, 2021

Though there ultimately ended up not being any major confrontation in the spring, the Russian military left significant stockpiles of armor and other heavy weapons and equipment in place in the region, and not all the units that had flooded into the area went back to their normal garrisons. Earlier this month, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy declared that Russia had arrayed units with almost 100,000 troops in total around its borders.
Ukrainian authorities, as well as American officials, among others, continue to stress that there are no clear indications that the Russian government is firmly committed to a new major military operation in Ukraine. At the same time, the U.S. government and NATO have been outspoken in warning the Kremlin against doing so and that there would be serious repercussions.
The United States is putting together "the most comprehensive and meaningful set of initiatives to make it very very difficult for Mr. Putin to go ahead and do what people are worried he may do," President Biden said today. He did not elaborate on what these initiatives might include, but there have been reports already that the U.S. government has threatened to hit the Kremlin with more sanctions in the event it launches a new invasion of Ukraine.

NEW: Asked about Russian force buildup near Ukraine, Biden says he is putting in place "the most comprehensive and meaningful set of initiatives to make it very very difficult for Mr. Putin to go ahead and do what people are worried he may do." Says that is "in play" right now.
— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) December 3, 2021

There is talk of a potential meeting of some kind between Biden and Putin as early as next week about the crisis.
“Despite a massive Russian disinformation campaign, Ukraine in no way poses a threat to Russia," U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said yesterday while attending the 28th Ministerial Council of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in Stockholm, Sweden. “The only threat is that of renewed Russian aggression towards Ukraine."
For some time now, Russian officials have been actively seeking to present Ukraine, as well as NATO, as being the real source of the latest tensions in the region. This is a common rhetorical tactic on the part of the Kremlin to deflect questions and criticism from the international community about worrying military movements and other malign activities it is engaged in.
Blinken also met directly with Russian Foreign Ministry Sergei Lavrov on the sidelines of the OSCE gathering to discuss the situation in and around Ukraine, but nothing of substance emerged from those talks.

"The best way to avert a crisis is through diplomacy." During a meeting on Thursday in Stockholm, Sweden, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken warned Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov that there will be "serious consequences" if Russia renews aggression against Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/4FtVO4oIpR
— Newsweek (@Newsweek) December 2, 2021

"We've made it clear to the Kremlin that we will respond resolutely, including with a range of high impact economic measures that we've refrained from using in the past," Blinken said the day before during a meeting of top NATO diplomats in Latvia. He added the alliance was "prepared to impose severe costs for further Russian aggression in Ukraine" and "prepared to reinforce its defenses on the eastern flank."
All of this follows Putin declaring his country's lastest red lines in relation to Ukraine earlier this week, warning in particular against major NATO deployments to Ukraine. While NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg pushed back forcefully against these statements, there is no actual indication that any NATO members are actively considering expanding their military presence inside Ukraine proper.
There are reports that members of NATO — the United States, in particular — are looking to step up other kinds of assistance to Ukraine's military, including the delivery of weapons, ammunition, and other equipment. The United States just recently delivered two ex-U.S. Coast Guard patrol boats that are set to enter Ukrainian Navy service and has continued to deliver ammunition and other supplies as part of pre-existing agreements.

The Ukrainian Navy reported that the two Island-class patrol boats delivered to it by the US on November 23 - P192 Sumy (former WPB-1307 Ocracoke) and P193 Fastiv (former WPB-1331 Washington) - went to sea from Odessa port for trials for the first time. pic.twitter.com/ymkw0SAeMx
— Status-6 (@Archer83Able) December 1, 2021
The vessels will be commissioned soon to strengthen Ukraine's maritime security and assist in maintaining sovereignty over its territorial waters. 2/2 pic.twitter.com/1YNFuhkjgi
— U.S. Embassy Kyiv (@USEmbassyKyiv) November 23, 2021
On Nov 14, received the delivery of approx 80,000 kilos of ammunition from . Part of the up to $60 mln in addtl security assistance directed by President Biden to in Aug, it is a demonstration of commitment to the success of a stable, democratic, & free . pic.twitter.com/nu8jezAcOh
— U.S. Embassy Kyiv (@USEmbassyKyiv) November 14, 2021
 

jward

passin' thru
continued...

"The U.S. is planning to send more anti-tank weapons like Javelin missiles," CNN reported today. Ukraine already has some stockpiles of Javelin anti-tank missiles. Officials in that country say they have started employing them against Russian-supported forces in the eastern part of the country following the lifting of earlier U.S. government prohibitions against doing so last year. These are very capable modern guided anti-tank weapons that have long been touted as significantly bolstering Ukraine's ability to challenge future Russian aggression.
However, the United States "has for now backed off of providing Ukraine with surface-to-air missiles, like [shoulder-fired, man-portable] Stingers, which Russia would view as provocative," according to CNN. It is well known that Ukraine has limited air and missile defense capabilities, which would present major vulnerabilities during any future conflict with Russia. There have been recent calls in the United States to provide Ukrainian forces with new surface-to-air missiles to help address these concerns.

What kind of deterrent effect, if any, additional military assistance, threats of sanctions, and other initiatives emanating from the United States and other NATO members might have in the end very much remains to be seen. As The War Zone has explored in its past reporting of this crisis, a number of geopolitical factors, together with domestic considerations, are likely combining to push the Kremlin increasingly toward some kind of action no matter what the consequences.
At the same time, Russia has non-military options to try to destabilize the government in Kyiv, with the hope that its collapse could lead to a more pro-Russian regime. A realistic threat of a new invasion, even if it never comes, puts its own pressure on Ukrainian authorities and their international partners. Continually conducting maneuvers that suggest such an operation might be imminent, but not following through could have a desensitizing effect, as well.
What is increasingly clear, as underscored by this latest report that logistical and medical capabilities have been deployed near Ukraine, is that the Kremlin is posturing itself to keep the invasion option wide open.

Updated 8:50 PM EST:
The Washington Post has published a story late today that offers details about a U.S. intelligence assessment that indicates Russia is putting the pieces into place to launch a large-scale intervention into Ukraine involving at least 175,000 personnel on the ground. It also says that American officials believe that there are around 70,000 Russian troops positioned near the country's borders with Ukraine now, a lower estimate than the ones that have been given out publicly by the Ukrainian government. However, some of the discrepancies may be due to the Kremlin's regular movement of forces in the region in order “to obfuscate intentions and to create uncertainty," according to the report.
“The Russian plans call for a military offensive against Ukraine as soon as early 2022 with a scale of forces twice what we saw this past spring during Russia’s snap exercise near Ukraine’s borders,” an official from President Joe Biden's administration said, according to The Washington Post. “The plans involve extensive movement of 100 battalion tactical groups with an estimated 175,000 personnel, along with armor, artillery, and equipment.”

This imagery is confusingly labelled as Boyevno. It is showing the vehicle stores at Pogonovo.@konrad_muzyka did some reporting on this last week https://t.co/AhbC9cEbDm pic.twitter.com/XjAIGY54w3
— tom (@tom_bullock_) December 4, 2021

Earlier this year, “the Russian troops worked out the issues of creating strike groups near the borders of our state, mobilization measures, logistical support of groups, [and] transfer of significant military contingents, including by air,” a Ukrainian official said separately, the Washington Post reported. “Additionally, in the past month, our information indicates Russian influence proxies and media outlets have started to increase content denigrating Ukraine and NATO, in part to pin the blame for a potential Russian military escalation on Ukraine."
“Recent information also indicates that Russian officials proposed adjusting Russia’s information operations against Ukraine to emphasize the narrative that Ukrainian leaders had been installed by the West, harbored a hatred for the ‘Russian world,’ and were acting against the interests of the Ukrainian people,” they continued.

All this being said, U.S. and Ukrainian officials continue to state publicly that it is unclear if Russian President Vladimir Putin has fully committed to executing this operation. If the Kremlin does truly intend to launch this invasion, it would still need to deploy around 100,000 additional personnel, per the U.S. government's assessment. Exactly what kinds of units are being discussed here is unclear, and there have also been reports of significant mobilizations of reserve units in Russia. All told, the 175,000 number likely does not reflect all of the forces that the Russians would bring to bear in an actual conflict.

One other point. If Russia really is planning on massing 100 BTGs and 175k personnel to potentially conduct a new push into Ukraine, that tells you something about how much more capable the Ukrainian military is today. They needed a far smaller force in 2014-2015. 7/
— Rob Lee (@RALee85) December 4, 2021

Again, whatever Putin's plans may actually be and what his policy objectives actually are, it does seem clear that moves are being made to keep the option of major military action open and viable.
Contact the author: joe@thedrive.com
 

jward

passin' thru

TheChrome

Contributing Member
Another Rivit Joint was flying around Crimea a few hours ago. What is curious is an Army Artemis ISTAR plane entered the Black Sea at roughly the same time from Romania. It proceeded to loop around Georgia 3 times before I stopped tracking..
.01-Homer_Start.jpg04-Homer_End.jpg
02-CL60_Start.jpg03-CL60_End.jpg
 
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AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hmm, people still aren't getting it. Putin will, at a minimum push west to the Dniepper river and kiev.
All this armed militia talk ignores reality. There will be no partisan war between ukie civilians and russian forces because russia will push them ALL west over the river.

Gang, there will not be one armed ukie, regular military or militia anywhere from the current eastern ukrainian border and Russia all the way west to the river.
Putin will kick everybody out and you will see columns of refugees heading into central europe.

All villages will be emptied, given a few hours to leave or else. If not, then putin will simply kill anybody still there. And that is how he will cleanse the eastern ukraine.

Doug,
Even in the darkest days of WW2, the Nazis couldn't clear out entire countries. Like Poland for example-many millions were killed and villages were razed to the ground; but there were still Poles left in Poland. Lots of resistance fighters too.

Russia, when they do invade the Ukraine; won't have the troops to conduct civil mop up operations. At least initially. The citizenry will be an afterthought; something to deal with after the land is captured.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Another Rivit Joint was flying around Crimea a few hours ago. What is curious is an Army Artemis ISTAR plane entered the Black Sea at roughly the same time from Romania. It proceeded to loop around Georgia 3 times before I stopped tracking..
.View attachment 306004View attachment 306007
View attachment 306005View attachment 306006

The Artemis plane is gathering info on the ground units and command and control radio nets for them. It's a J-STARS plane in half scale, basically.
 

jward

passin' thru
Gu54B4pc_normal.png


Julia Davis
@JuliaDavisNews
· 1h
EU and NATO allies have swung behind the Biden administration’s assessment that Russia may be poised to invade Ukraine, following unprecedented sharing of US intelligence on Moscow’s military preparations. https://ft.com/content/b287f2
 

jward

passin' thru
With Russia on Multiple Fronts, DOD Team in Ukraine Assesses Air Defense Needs

Dec. 3, 2021 | By Abraham Mahshie

A Defense Department team is on the ground in Ukraine assessing what the country needs to protect itself from air, naval, electronic, and cyber warfare threats as Russian troops gather on multiple fronts, a senior Ukrainian defense official told Air Force Magazine, describing an emphasis on what assistance can be delivered “today.”
Ukraine has been engaged in a low-intensity conflict with Russian-backed separatists in the eastern Donbass region since 2014, when Russia invaded and annexed the Crimean peninsula. Presently, an estimated 40 Russian battalion tactical groups and more than 115,000 personnel surround Ukraine after a second front was opened on the 600-mile northern border with Belarus following the joint Zapad exercises between Belarus and Russia in September.
“Russia doesn’t need only Donbass,” a senior Ukrainian defense official said on condition of anonymity. “If we are talking about Russian long-term goals, they want all Ukraine.”

The U.S. has sought to protect Eastern Europe’s largest democracy, a non-NATO partner, by stepping up defense assistance and calling on Russia to explain the buildup of more than 100,000 troops on Ukraine’s border. In terms of what defense assistance can be immediately provided by the United States, the Ukrainian official said: “This is a political question.”
During Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s August visit to Washington, President Joe Biden announced an additional $60 million in anti-tank javelin missiles, which have in the past helped push Russian tanks farther from the frontline. The assistance is part of $400 million in assistance over the past year and some $2.5 billion since 2014. But the greatest Russian threat is now perceived to be from the air.
Speaking at the Dec. 2 Atlantic Council discussion “Will Russia Invade Ukraine Again?”, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine John E. Herbst said he believed immediate defense assistance to Ukraine is possible and should be covertly transferred to the country.
“We should be able to get certain weapon systems to Ukraine right now,” he said. “We should be thinking seriously about stronger anti-air defenses, including perhaps Patriots. We should be thinking about anti-ship missiles, things that would make it clear that … there’ll be great Russian casualties if they move.”

U.S. European Command declined to reveal where Patriot missile batteries are located in the region and told Air Force Magazine that it supports “de-escalation in the region and a diplomatic resolution to the conflict in Eastern Ukraine.”
U.S. Transportation Command declined to discuss specific countries or operations but said it was conceivable to move a Patriot battery via air.
“We prefer to move a battery via surface,” TRANSCOM spokesperson Scott Ross told Air Force Magazine. “When we need to move a battery or any other kind of cargo or organization and it needs to be there quicker because of mission priorities, we will use military lift, or commercial lift, depending upon what course of action makes the most sense for that particular event.”
Ross, out of operational security, declined to describe the transportation aircraft that would be used to move a Patriot battery.
The Ukrainian official said the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense and DOD are talking about what defense assistance is possible. Any decision on immediate assistance would be up to the White House.
“We are in [the] process and the Pentagon is under consideration what can be supplied to Ukraine in [the] short term,” the official said.

The official confirmed a Defense Department working group is in Ukraine evaluating the country’s defense needs, and he described a November meeting between Ukrainian Minister of Defense Oleksii Reznikov and Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III. He also said Reznikov received support from a bipartisan group of American lawmakers during his visit.
“Everyone said, ‘Yes, we support you. We are going to push. We are going to increase,’” the official said of proposals to increase foreign military financing to Ukraine.
No matter what the largesse of Congress can provide, once the National Defense Authorization Act passes, defense purchases take time, and Ukraine’s needs are urgent.
“Something which we need tomorrow we cannot buy right now,” the Ukrainian official said. “In fact, we needed it yesterday, but if you want to buy it, it’s quite a long process to procure.”

Balancing Immediate and Long-Term Needs
Ukraine has medium-term plans for upgrading its air defense systems, but the urgent need to protect its borders from a possible Russian invasion has prompted a foreign military sales request and negotiations for immediate deterrence capabilities.
Congressional aides involved in Reznikov’s visit told Air Force Magazine that Stinger anti-aircraft weapons were recommended as a bridging solution. The Ukrainian defense official said that with a 13,000-foot altitude range, the system could help defend against a threat from attack helicopters.
“What about jets who are flying above?” the official posed. “So, this is very short range. To some extent, in trenches it’s good equipment.”

The Ukrainian Army currently maintains trench positions in the southeastern Donbass region, where it faces off against the Russian-backed breakaway republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.
“It depends what we are going to protect. If we want to protect a big city, we need kind of long range,” he said. “We need to assess every situation, and we are doing this with the U.S. side.”
The Ukrainian military official would not confirm the precise systems requested, such as long-range Patriot missile batteries or Stinger short-range air defenses, saying instead Ukraine has requested from the United States “capabilities.”
“We are talking about what type of capabilities we need, what we need urgently, and our defense team works with [the] American air defense team to find out decisions for short term, for longer term,” he said. “It doesn’t mean we don’t have them. But to deter aggression, we need to improve them.”

From a practical standpoint, it is air defenses and not aircraft that Ukraine needs most urgently.
Ukraine has Europe’s seventh-largest Air Force at approximately 144 platforms, but much of its fleet is aging Soviet-made aircraft. Ukraine combat aircraft include MiG-29s and Sukhoi Su-25s and Su-27s. Upgrading to American F-16 aircraft would require “five to 10 years,” the official said, using the example of Poland’s transition to a modern American Air Force.

Strong Words of Support
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, following a foreign ministers meeting in Riga, Latvia, on Dec. 2, voiced the political support of the alliance but said it was up to each NATO partner to negotiate defense assistance with Kyiv.
“Ministers made clear any future Russian aggression would come at a high price and have serious political and economic consequences for Russia,” Stoltenberg said in a press briefing, noting potential increased economic and financial sanctions as well as political restrictions.
The NATO Secretary General also pointed to the alliance’s reaction to the 2014 invasion of Crimea, which led to the deployment of battle groups in the Baltic region and Poland and an increased presence in the Black Sea, including air policing, rotational troops, and more exercises.

Stoltenberg did not promise military assistance.
“We provide support to Ukraine with capacity building. Allies provide training, equipment, and advice. And also share information with them,” he said.
Following a meeting with his South Korean counterpart Dec. 2, Austin described the danger Russia poses but declined to speculate on a potential U.S. response.
“Russia has a substantial amount of forces in the border region, and we remain concerned about that,” he said, adding that information warfare is being used by Russia to undermine Zelensky’s legitimacy.
The Ukrainian defense official said Ukraine has asked other NATO allies for defense assistance. In some cases, domestic law prohibits it. At the NATO defense ministerial level, Ukraine commission discussion has been blocked by Russian ally Viktor Orban, Prime Minister of Hungary, he added.

“It’s quite complicated with NATO. NATO doesn’t have itself weapons, its weapons of nations,” the official said. “We are working with all possible NATO nations, but some countries legally cannot sell us any weapons.”
Security analysts have theorized that Russian President Vladimir Putin needs a land bridge through the Donbass to the Crimean peninsula, which it currently spends billions of dollars to support and militarize.
The Ukrainian official said the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol on the Azov Sea stands in the way of such a tactical move, and it is well defended. Ukraine’s larger concern, rather, is Russian troops poised northeast of Kyiv and across the border in Belarus. Russian aggression may be the beginning of an escalation that ultimately seeks to make Ukraine part of Russia, as in Soviet times.

“We need to protect all our country,” the official said, noting concerns related to the new front to the north. “There is no chance we are not fighting. We are going to fight.”
 

SageRock

Veteran Member
Wonder if the Russians are even going to wait until after the proposed Tuesday meeting. They're very unlikely to gain anything tangible from Biden, and there would be a greater element of surprise if they move early.

Then the U.S. bars Russia from the SWIFT system in banking, and the Russians cut natural gas supplies to Europe. Germany freezes, along with Poland and perhaps the Baltics.

Grim scenario.

When former President Trump was in office, there were four years of relative peace in the region. Biden (and his handlers) have been in office less than a year, and here we are on the verge of open warfare.
 

1-12020

Senior Member
Wonder if the Russians are even going to wait until after the proposed Tuesday meeting. They're very unlikely to gain anything tangible from Biden, and there would be a greater element of surprise if they move early.

Then the U.S. bars Russia from the SWIFT system in banking, and the Russians cut natural gas supplies to Europe. Germany freezes, along with Poland and perhaps the Baltics.

Grim scenario.

When former President Trump was in office, there were four years of relative peace in the region. Biden (and his handlers) have been in office less than a year, and here we are on the verge of open warfare.

Yes. Why wait. It appears they are good to go, ready with all necessary equipment and men. Everyday they wait allows their adversary to continue to arm up, which could mean more causalities for the Russians.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Wonder if the Russians are even going to wait until after the proposed Tuesday meeting. They're very unlikely to gain anything tangible from Biden, and there would be a greater element of surprise if they move early.

Then the U.S. bars Russia from the SWIFT system in banking, and the Russians cut natural gas supplies to Europe. Germany freezes, along with Poland and perhaps the Baltics.

Grim scenario.

When former President Trump was in office, there were four years of relative peace in the region. Biden (and his handlers) have been in office less than a year, and here we are on the verge of open warfare.

With regards to Germany; the German govt. hasn't certified the Nordstream 2 pipeline for operation yet. Fuel supplies to Germany and western Europe from Russia is already at a lower level.
Another thing to consider is-what will happen when Russian forces do enter Ukraine. Will they disable the pipelines there (that currently send oil an natural gas to Europe) or keep them open as a bargaining chip between Russia and NATO?

Either way you look at it-this invasion will have consequences far outside the battlespace area of the Ukraine.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Putin's meeting? is scheduled for the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, and absolutely he is sending a message there to biden and the warmongering western powers.

Putin has already culled Norway from the larger NATO system as they are terrified of what the Baltic Fleet will do to them. If you were Norway, and you had Finland and Sweden between you and Russia, and an enraged Russian Grizzly Bear, or maybe a Polar Bear you would ban NATO ships just like they did. Kind of neutralizes the northern flank, Alfaman without firing a shot.

Go rent the movie "Sum of All Fears," and watch the attack sequence on the US Aircraft Carrier in it. The military and political leadership class in the USA have no idea at all what the level of hurt the advanced Russian military can bring down on them. Here we are nearly at Christmas and biden is triggering a bona fide war. Again, the level of stupidity by the western powers breathtaking in the extent of the arrogance and self delusion.

The USA and allies don't do well in massive surprise attack scenarios: Pearl Harbor, Tet Offensive, or Korea on Thanksgiving.

My opinion is Putin will ethnic cleanse, all ukies out, civilian and military, the ENTIRE area of the Eastern Ukraine from the current border all the way to the Dniepper? River.

He will force out all the civilians as refugees, and leave the pockets left behind to rot. Sorry, but it takes two to tango, and Putin will just ignore any ukies left behind. Cut off the food, water, fuel/heat and six months from now won't be much left.
 

1-12020

Senior Member
Puti Again, the level of stupidity by the western powers breathtaking in the extent of the arrogance and self delusion.
Pride before the fall...and that fall will cause earthquakes which will rock us all. Pride not only takes the prideful but usually has ripple consequences for many.
 

jward

passin' thru
OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical

2h

Definitely flew under the radar but Russia is setting up for escalation under the guise of “protecting Russian citizens”


ArianaGic/Аріянॳць
@GicAriana


Hi everyone. Moscow just de facto annexed Russia-occupied Donetsk, Ukraine. This may not be as sexy as military escalation with explosions and body bags, but this is a profound escalation of Russia’s war of aggression. It’s THE thing you should be talking about today.
View: https://twitter.com/GicAriana/status/1467572081458130949?s=20
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
It means no pullback from either the Crimea or Donesk, or for that matter all the currently occupied areas by ethnic Russians in the Eastern Ukraine.
Nobody is backing off. Nobody is backing down. War is on the horizon. And it is a big DOT that Putin has his whatever with Biden on the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, and a day or two AFTER he officially annexes all of the areas Donesk etc the ethnic Russians took over in 2014.

Yep, oh these European NATO and EU are going to sanction Russia into a shooting war with them.

I would also add that since Putin just annexed donesk then all those Ukie "freedom" fighters in the trenches out side of Donesk just signed their death warrants. it is either a fast "refugee run away" for them, of being exterminated by the advancing REGULAR RUSSIAN MILITARY.

Honestly, that advance could come as soon as the end of the month.

AND I WILL REMIND YOU ALL THAT RUSSIA COMBAT DEPLOYED INTO AFGHANISTAN ON CHRISTMAS OF 1979. So a Christmas first strike is definitely an option for Putin.
 

bobfall2005

Veteran Member
I think the Ukrainians get it.

They learned some hard lessons, since the start if this.

What works and what doesn't, is not lost to them.

The resistance is pointless crowd, left a long time ago.
 

Techwreck

Veteran Member
Let's follow the bumbling, senile, perverted and corrupt fool who believes he's actually in charge.

Poke the Bear and hide behind........10%, Quid-pro, Joe Biden?

After the Afghanistan goatfrac?

Great plan, Euro-idjits.
 

danielboon

TB Fanatic
Ukraine marks army day with US hardware and vow to fight off Russia
By Natalia Zinets and Matthias Williams




2 minute read
Ukrainian servicemen attend a rehearsal of an official ceremony to hand over tanks, armoured personnel carriers and military vehicles to the Ukrainian Armed Forces as the country celebrates Army Day in Kyiv, Ukraine December 6, 2021.  REUTERS/Gleb Garanich

Ukrainian servicemen attend a rehearsal of an official ceremony to hand over tanks, armoured personnel carriers and military vehicles to the Ukrainian Armed Forces as the country celebrates Army Day in Kyiv, Ukraine December 6, 2021.  REUTERS/Gleb Garanich

Ukrainian servicemen attend a rehearsal of an official ceremony to hand over tanks, armoured personnel carriers and military vehicles to the Ukrainian Armed Forces as the country celebrates Army Day in Kyiv, Ukraine December 6, 2021.  REUTERS/Gleb Garanich



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Ukrainian servicemen attend a rehearsal of an official ceremony to hand over tanks, armoured personnel carriers and military vehicles to the Ukrainian Armed Forces as the country celebrates Army Day in Kyiv, Ukraine December 6, 2021. REUTERS/Gleb Garanich


KYIV, Dec 6 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Ukraine's armed forces were capable of fighting off any attack from Russia as the country marked its national army day on Monday with a display of U.S. armoured vehicles and patrol boats.
U.S. President Joe Biden has pledged his "unwavering support" to Ukraine in its standoff with Moscow and will hold talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday to try to defuse the crisis. read more

Ukraine has accused Russia of massing tens of thousands of troops near its border in preparation for a possible large scale military offensive, raising the prospect of open war between the two neighbours.
"The servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine continue to fulfil their most important mission - to defend the freedom and sovereignty of the state from the Russian aggressor," Zelenskiy said in a statement.

"The Ukrainian army ... is confident in its strength and able to thwart any conquest plans of the enemy," he said.
Russia has dismissed talk of a new assault on Ukraine as false and inflammatory but told the West not to cross its "red lines" and to halt the eastward expansion of the NATO alliance.

Zelenskiy will travel east to Kharkiv, a traditional centre for Ukrainian weapons manufacturing, to mark a delivery of tanks, armoured personal carriers and armoured vehicles made in the city's factories.
He will also visit the Donetsk region, where Ukraine's army has fought Russian-backed forces in a simmering conflict that Kyiv says has killed 14,000 people since 2014.
Several cities across Ukraine are marking the 30th anniversary of the creation of an independent military after winning independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Kyiv, Lviv and the southern port city of Odessa will display U.S.-made Humvees. In Odessa, there will also be a ceremony to hand over two recently delivered U.S. Coast Guard patrol boats intended to bolster Ukraine's navy. read more
Ukraine has urged NATO to accelerate its entry into the military alliance and said Moscow had no right to veto. read more NATO's leadership has been supportive but said Ukraine must carry out defence reforms and tackle corruption first.
 
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