HEALTH Psychedelic [drug psilocybin] spurs growth of neural connections lost in depression
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Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Much less so than you'd think. Here's the Strong's definition of "sober".
1) to be sober, to be calm and collected in spirit
2) to be temperate, dispassionate, circumspect
With those definitions, it would actually be a good idea to take the mushrooms. If you're depressed, you aren't sober. You're not calm and collected, and you're not dispassionate. Fixing the problem gets you BACK to a sober mind.
subnet
Boot
Problem is, with mental issues such as that, no one is ever "fixed" ...so far.
And that deffinition leaves out the common lines of any type of mind altering substances like alcohol ect...which alcohol is the usual suspect biblically.
Along this thought process, I firmly believe no GP should be able to prescribe any drugs stronger than maybe Buspar at this point, for lack of a better term (its insane) the way they are allowed toss drugs like Effexor ect at so many, including children.
I do find it interesting that big pharma can't seem to isolate items that will help (as others have posted) but seem to be able to isolate things that keep the population in fear though, makes one wonder.
Many pharmaceuticals are physiologically altering, to some degree.
Many of them are alterations of naturally occurring substances.
Pretty arrogant for people to decry that some are acceptable and others are not.
No different than the POV that guns kill people.
Problems lie within the user, not the substance.
Many of them are alterations of naturally occurring substances.
Pretty arrogant for people to decry that some are acceptable and others are not.
No different than the POV that guns kill people.
Problems lie within the user, not the substance.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
A good point. Though that would mean that, if no one is ever fixed, then no one with a mental condition can be soberminded.
And yes, alcohol is a problem. Or rather, can be; let's not forget that a little wine for thy stomach's sake is still on the table, so don't throw that baby out with the bathwater.
Looks Harmless
Bite Me
Individuals should be able to exercise their freewill as they see fit and it's no ones business, until such time their choice infringes the freewill of others. I can't understand how folks know that freewill was given to us by the Creator, and even he doesn't control it, yet they think they have the pay grade to control the individual choices of others. Mind boggling. YMMV
A few peeps need to print this and tape it to their mirror.
rob0126
Veteran Member
Never thought Id be arguing with a christian about why its not good to take lsd or shrooms.
Here is the full spread definition from the 1828 noah websters dictionary:
#2 comes to mind.
SO'BER, a. [L. sobrius.]
1. Temperate in the use of spiritous liquors; habitually temperate; as a sober man. Live a sober, righteous and godly life.
2. Not intoxicated or overpowered by spiritous liquors; not drunken. The sot may at times be sober.
3. Not mad or insane; not wild, visionary or heated with passion; having the regular exercise of cool dispassionate reason. There was not a sober person to be had; all was tempestuous and blustering. Not sober man would put himself in danger, for the applause of escaping without breaking his neck.
4. Regular; calm; not under the influence of passion; as sober judgment; a man in his sober senses.
5. Serious; solemn; grave; as the sober livery of autumn. What parts gay France from sober Spain? See her sober over a sampler, or gay over a jointed baby.
SO'BER, v.t. TO make sober; to cure of intoxication. There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain and drinking largely sobers us again.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Likewise! Especially not the possibility that it may be the right move!
Points 3 and 4 of your assertion actually support the use of LSD here, whether you like it or not, and you clearly don't.
If you are in a depressive state, you are insane, and you are not calm and really under the influence of passion.
Therefore, to BE soberminded, you should be doing everything possible to ESCAPE that condition. Including LSD, if it turns out to work as suggested. Which means the thing you think makes you not sober actually works to MAKE you sober. You were never sober to begin with if you were in a depressive state.
Your point, meanwhile, would work perfectly if you were ALREADY soberminded and then took LSD, as it would make you NOT sober any more.
Looks Harmless
Bite Me
An idea or belief is the strongest drug known to man. They too can be considered addictive and dangerous and certainly create unsober people. Witness our current societal pandemic of mental illness. But of course they'd never make ideals illegal... /s
PghPanther
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I can't tell you how many times I've glanced at the title of this thread and thought it had something to do with bone spurs.......
rob0126
Veteran Member
I see that each definition segways right into the next.
Use some common sense bro.
Two wrongs dont make a right.
If you are already messed up in the head, why add to it?
Most of the time its a nutrient deficiency or some toxin in the body causing it.
There are natural ways to get over depression by not using mind altering drugs.
Ultimately, Jesus Christ can fix depression if He so chooses.
However, its your choice.
But Id be careful twisting scripture to justify your belief bro.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Common sense says you can stop a fire by setting another fire in front of it, depriving the larger fire of fuel.
And you're absolutely right that Jesus Christ can fix depression if He so chooses.
I'm hardly "twisting" scripture. The scripture is there as presented. I even pulled out the Strong's definitions to get the exact meanings of the original Hebrew.
rob0126
Veteran Member
Forget the 'hebrew and greek' and think about this. (NT was written in greek)
If you only had the kjv bible, whats the first thing that comes to mind when you read the word, sober?
Looks Harmless
Bite Me
None of your business.
My freewill, my interpretation, my personal conversations with the Creator. No one gets to decide how I believe based on how they believe. You do you.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
"Not drunk." Which really doesn't help here as psilocybin doesn't cause drunkenness.
But it really doesn't matter what comes to MY mind. Or yours. It only matters what GOD meant when He had it written.
Looks Harmless
Bite Me
And how do we know what the Creator meant? We ask him personally and be open to his response.
Those shoes merit close study. At first glance, they appear to be panties down over the ankles.Hmmm, very interesting info, thanks for posting it….…..
…..btw I just wanta know where you got those shoes.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
If He chooses to provide a response. Many people have asked over many years just what He meant by something and we're often still as confused as we are right now.
That gets in the way of admiring one's image.
rob0126
Veteran Member
The point is, soberness has to do with being in control of your mind.
If your mind has been altered, then its not in the state God set it to be; thus not sober or not in full control of it.
Not being in control of your mind is the cause of each of the other definitions of the word in the websters dictionary. (excess)
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
You're quite right. But you already WEREN'T in control of your mind.
Like I said, you'd be right if you were fine and THEN you decided to take LSD for fun. That would be getting you out of a sober mind.
But if you're in a depressive state, you're already not IN "full control of your mind." So you should be trying to get out of that condition. If this is a way to do it, then that would make it useful and necessary.
Looks Harmless
Bite Me
I've had great response time. LOL
I don't think people listen, really pay attention. The Creator has an interesting and sometimes mysterious way of revealing what he wants us to know. I've had people tell me he's never "spoken" to them yet I can see where he has just not in an obvious way. We get locked into our little mental boxes and like blinders they can keep us from seeing the entire picture. IMHO
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Used to be God sent pillars of fire to show you where to go.
Today it's small voices and mysterious connections of events that are only obvious in retrospect.
What is your position on drugs legally proscribed to treat mental illness? Anti-depressants, to anti-psychotics? I normally DETEST the pharmaceutical industry (can't express that strongly enough), BUT I've also known and worked with "normal" people for whom these meds were absolute life-savers.
rob0126
Veteran Member
you cant make someone soberminded if you use a mind altering substance.
you cant put put a gasoline fire outwith more gasoline. (assuming the same spot as the fire)
btw who said being depressed puts you in an unsober state?
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
The definition. If you're in a depressed state, you're not in control of your mind. If you were, then you could just stop being depressed.
rob0126
Veteran Member
Natural alternatives I agree with but not pharmakeia drugs. The bible calls it sorcery.
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rob0126
Veteran Member
I disagree. Ive been depressed before and I drove fine and did manual labor well.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Those aren't the only measures of "being in control of your mind."
Not understanding the distinctions some are making here, but I may not be up on the definitions for the terms used.
Sort of seems like, illegal = not OK, but the government has a lousy record on morality, and it sure doesn't care about our safety, so not seeing any validity there, either.
Sort of seems like, illegal = not OK, but the government has a lousy record on morality, and it sure doesn't care about our safety, so not seeing any validity there, either.
rob0126
Veteran Member
Many of the prophets were depressed at times. Did God perscribe some shrooms for it?
There is a difference in having something happen to you in life, and something you choose to do.
hammerhead
Veteran Member
I've followed psychedelic medicine research/advances for a while now. It's an interesting topic, and some of these substances are showing fantastic results from actual studies.
Still, the stigma of anything attached to "mental illness" is real. It's okay to take insulin to help the body get back into balance, but not an SSRI or another substance/compound to help the brain/mind reset?
It does seem like crazy world sometimes, when I read about studies with ketamine, LSD, mushrooms, ayahuasca, etc. I grew up when this stuff was all baaaad, period. But now research is okay, they're studying the underlying mechanisms of the drug action, and they are starting to find effective treatments.
I am a huge fan of what's happening with PTSD and MDMA. It's a miserable condition, and the relief for many who have undertaken the therapy is stunning.
Still, the stigma of anything attached to "mental illness" is real. It's okay to take insulin to help the body get back into balance, but not an SSRI or another substance/compound to help the brain/mind reset?
It does seem like crazy world sometimes, when I read about studies with ketamine, LSD, mushrooms, ayahuasca, etc. I grew up when this stuff was all baaaad, period. But now research is okay, they're studying the underlying mechanisms of the drug action, and they are starting to find effective treatments.
I am a huge fan of what's happening with PTSD and MDMA. It's a miserable condition, and the relief for many who have undertaken the therapy is stunning.
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Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
rob0126
Veteran Member
Would God perscribe a mind altering substance to His people?
HOKAY
Standard deal applies here.
If you want to make a theological discussion of this, please start a thread in the REL room.
THX
Standard deal applies here.
If you want to make a theological discussion of this, please start a thread in the REL room.
THX
rob0126
Veteran Member
HOKAY
Standard deal applies here.
If you want to make a theological discussion of this, please start a thread in the REL room.
THX
Sorry about the thread drift.
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
A Separate Reality
A Separate Reality
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A Separate Reality
A Separate Reality: Further Conversations With Don Juan is a book written by anthropologist/author Carlos Castaneda, published in 1971, concerning the events that took place during his apprenticeship with a Yaqui Indian Sorcerer, Don Juan Matus, between 1960 and 1965.
In the book Castaneda continues his description of his apprenticeship under the tutelage of Don Juan. As in his previous book, The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge, Castaneda describes the experiences he has with Don Juan while under the influence of the psychotropic plants that Don Juan offered him, peyote (Lophophora williamsii) and a smokable mixture of what Castaneda believed to be, among other plants, dried mushroom of the genus Psilocybe. The main focus of the book centered on Don Juan's attempts at getting Carlos to See, a practice best described as, in Castaneda's own words, "perceiving energy directly as it flows through the universe".
The book contains an introduction, an epilogue and two separate parts. Part One, "The Preliminaries of 'Seeing'", describes his re-initiation into the apprenticeship from which he withdrew in late 1965, and also describes his introduction to another brujo (sorcerer) named Don Genaro. Part Two, "The Task of 'Seeing'", elaborates on the mental processes involved with Seeing, and begins with Castaneda realizing that the plants are a necessary tool to arrive at Seeing.
Some people can handle the stuff others go mad.
A Separate Reality
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
A Separate Reality
First edition cover (paperback) | |
| Author | Carlos Castaneda |
|---|---|
| Country | United States |
| Language | English |
| Genre | Memoir |
| Publisher | Simon & Schuster |
| Publication date | 1971 |
| Media type | Print (Hardcover & Paperback) |
| Pages | 272 |
| ISBN | 978-0-671-73249-3 |
| OCLC | 24387280 |
| Preceded by | The Teachings of Don Juan |
| Followed by | Journey to Ixtlan |
In the book Castaneda continues his description of his apprenticeship under the tutelage of Don Juan. As in his previous book, The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge, Castaneda describes the experiences he has with Don Juan while under the influence of the psychotropic plants that Don Juan offered him, peyote (Lophophora williamsii) and a smokable mixture of what Castaneda believed to be, among other plants, dried mushroom of the genus Psilocybe. The main focus of the book centered on Don Juan's attempts at getting Carlos to See, a practice best described as, in Castaneda's own words, "perceiving energy directly as it flows through the universe".
The book contains an introduction, an epilogue and two separate parts. Part One, "The Preliminaries of 'Seeing'", describes his re-initiation into the apprenticeship from which he withdrew in late 1965, and also describes his introduction to another brujo (sorcerer) named Don Genaro. Part Two, "The Task of 'Seeing'", elaborates on the mental processes involved with Seeing, and begins with Castaneda realizing that the plants are a necessary tool to arrive at Seeing.
Some people can handle the stuff others go mad.