HEALTH Psychedelic [drug psilocybin] spurs growth of neural connections lost in depression

jward

passin' thru
Psychedelic spurs growth of neural connections lost in depression
By Bill Hathaway

3 minutes


The psychedelic drug psilocybin, a naturally occurring compound found in some mushrooms, has been studied as a potential treatment for depression for years. But exactly how it works in the brain and how long beneficial results might last is still unclear.
In a new study, Yale researchers show that a single dose of psilocybin given to mice prompted an immediate and long-lasting increase in connections between neurons. The findings are published July 5 in the journal Neuron.

“We not only saw a 10% increase in the number of neuronal connections, but also they were on average about 10% larger, so the connections were stronger as well,” said Yale’s Alex Kwan, associate professor of psychiatry and of neuroscience and senior author of the paper.
Previous laboratory experiments had shown promise that psilocybin, as well as the anesthetic ketamine, can decrease depression. The new Yale research found that these compounds increase the density of dendritic spines, small protrusions found on nerve cells which aid in the transmission of information between neurons. Chronic stress and depression are known to reduce the number of these neuronal connections.

Using a laser-scanning microscope, Kwan and first author Ling-Xiao Shao, a postdoctoral associate in the Yale School of Medicine, imaged dendritic spines in high resolution and tracked them for multiple days in living mice. They found increases in the number of dendritic spines and in their size within 24 hours of administration of psilocybin. These changes were still present a month later. Also, mice subjected to stress showed behavioral improvements and increased neurotransmitter activity after being given psilocybin.
For some people, psilocybin, an active compound in “magic mushrooms,” can produce a profound mystical experience. The psychedelic was a staple of religious ceremonies among indigenous populations of the New World and is also a popular recreational drug.

It may be the novel psychological effects of psilocybin itself that spurs the growth of neuronal connections, Kwan said.
“It was a real surprise to see such enduring changes from just one dose of psilocybin,” he said. “These new connections may be the structural changes the brain uses to store new experiences.”

Posted For Fair Use
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Well, if you had depression, probably a lot better this than some pharmaceutical nightmare serum, no?
This is the kind of testing that Big Pharma does on the road to trying to find something they can isolate and sell for big bucks.

So far they have totally failed to get effective versions of anything from Tumeric (legal) or Cannabis (legality varies but still illegally on the Federal US level) - they got some extracts from each that do some things, but nothing works as well as the entire plant in both cases.

In both cases, Big Pharma pretty much gave up, except to work on serious medical strains of the entire plant with Cannabis in places like Isreal where they used it to treat military wounded and veterans.

It has been obvious for a number of years now that some psychoactive plants used for thousands of years did have some effect on severe depression patients, especially those with PTSD.

One problem is, Big Pharma can't isolate a particular ingredient and sell it, the other problem is that most Western Doctors are not trained Shamans and didn't have a clue how to properly guide the user through their "trip." Which as any trained medicine elder from the Amazon to Siberia will tell you, is absolutely vital for the patient to stay safe.

No traditional society I am aware of using any of the seriously psychoactive plants (mushrooms, ayahuasca (a combination of plants) peyote "just for fun." Cannabis is sometimes used in traditional societies "just for fun," in the same way that booze is - though in most traditional societies that have both - both are also used in rituals.
 

West

Senior
This is the kind of testing that Big Pharma does on the road to trying to find something they can isolate and sell for big bucks.

So far they have totally failed to get effective versions of anything from Tumeric (legal) or Cannabis (legality varies but still illegally on the Federal US level) - they got some extracts from each that do some things, but nothing works as well as the entire plant in both cases.

In both cases, Big Pharma pretty much gave up, except to work on serious medical strains of the entire plant with Cannabis in places like Isreal where they used it to treat military wounded and veterans.

It has been obvious for a number of years now that some psychoactive plants used for thousands of years did have some effect on severe depression patients, especially those with PTSD.

One problem is, Big Pharma can't isolate a particular ingredient and sell it, the other problem is that most Western Doctors are not trained Shamans and didn't have a clue how to properly guide the user through their "trip." Which as any trained medicine elder from the Amazon to Siberia will tell you, is absolutely vital for the patient to stay safe.

No traditional society I am aware of using any of the seriously psychoactive plants (mushrooms, ayahuasca (a combination of plants) peyote "just for fun." Cannabis is sometimes used in traditional societies "just for fun," in the same way that booze is - though in most traditional societies that have both - both are also used in rituals.

If your outside and in the woods, the trip is much more safer, err.. to have a good trip. However stay away from cliffs and snakes, etc..

So I've been told.
 

PghPanther

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hooray!!!.............

....another excuse to post this again......

...my favorite cheap sleazy Jap B grade psycho sexy film of all time...........
1625654697735.png
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If your outside and in the woods, the trip is much more safer, err.. to have a good trip. However stay away from cliffs and snakes, etc..

So I've been told.

The beauty of the Natural world is where I go to find joy and peace and serenity and all those things that are not depressing. I patiently listened yesterday as someone I knew described being on shroom tea. When that finally ground to a halt, I told him I have always preferred to do it like old Black Elk (Holy Man for the Sioux).

He said that if he had a Vision, let it come up from his juices, with no outside influence. And that is the way it feels best to me. We are Mortal and there are places and beings we can't defend against in that form. Going willingly into their territory isn't wise. Ask God to protect you? Yeah, sure, but that's like touching the hot stove and then screaming for aid. Don't go there in the first place.

Anything that has passed into "research" means you no good. These people aren't your friends.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
No traditional society I am aware of using any of the seriously psychoactive plants (mushrooms, ayahuasca (a combination of plants) peyote "just for fun." Cannabis is sometimes used in traditional societies "just for fun," in the same way that booze is - though in most traditional societies that have both - both are also used in rituals.

That is because Trad Societies know that the Keepers of these plants take note if they are used in a sacred manner or for fun or profit. These Keepers (think another branch of Faerie Realm) are responding to how most of us treat plants. That is why there is a worldwide drug epidemic down here. Trying to figure out how these Keepers function and how the Wood Wide Web functions, are just two of the directions I have gone after moving from Asatru to Vanatru.
 

Faroe

Un-spun
That is because Trad Societies know that the Keepers of these plants take note if they are used in a sacred manner or for fun or profit. These Keepers (think another branch of Faerie Realm) are responding to how most of us treat plants. That is why there is a worldwide drug epidemic down here. Trying to figure out how these Keepers function and how the Wood Wide Web functions, are just two of the directions I have gone after moving from Asatru to Vanatru.
Would love to learn more about this, but not sure I have the background for understanding.
 

Faroe

Un-spun
The eastern box turtle consumes mushrooms and toadstools with no ill effect. Does it get any kind of high from Psilocybin? Does the Colorado River toad ever trip on it's own parotoid glands? Is the DMT experience uniquely human? Are some animals experiencing a secret life we are unaware of?
 

Faroe

Un-spun
I've read that a Mexican shaman can send your spirit into underground rhelms with just drumming. Could meditation do the same? I am intrigued by accounts such as The Findhorn Garden of people who can flit in and out, and converse with other entities.

Apparently a drug isn't the only way.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Drugs and plants are NOT the only way in, but they may be (along with a proper ceremony) the only way in for someone whose mind is otherwise damaged and the intent of the exercise is healing (and perhaps actually growing new connections as is seen in the mice).

I've never personally taken any of the "mind-expanding" stuff because I'm allergic to mushrooms, my major professor (trained by Don Juan in Mexico) didn't think I should risk peyote either and he felt I was a good candidate for "other methods" (which has proved to be the case).

But I wasn't blown up in the SandBox or the last survivor of a unit from Nam, and that's a totally different level of "needs help."

However, as I said, not only should this stuff not be done "just for fun" (in my opinion) it should never be done without a trained guide. That would be either a traditional medicine elder (I think the best choice) or a modern psychiatrist who has worked with them and their own patients for at least a few years using these techniques.

I was once part of a healing ceremony (no drugs/plants) for a Vietnam Veteran with help from my Native Elder friend - it was a profound and life-changing experience for everyone (including the vet). But I suspect even though we did a very belated "welcoming the warrior back to society" ritual and it helped, his issues were deep enough that an elder trained in the use of such plants (my friend is not, not that kind of plant healing anyway) would have helped even more.

We kind of helped "shore the guy up" but he may have needed some medications we simply couldn't provide.

As for "Pharmakia" if you ever even take an aspirin or drink coffee (caffeine) you have done some, and I'm not totally opposed to Big Pharma Research on this topic but I saw what happened with Tumeric and cannabis and I suspect they are likely to get smimlar and disappointing results if they try to make a modern "drug" formula out of it.
 

Tristan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So Timothy Leary was on(to) something after all?


Maybe.

IIRC there was another mind-altering substance that was being tested under tightly controlled conditions for Soldiers with intractable, severe PTSD.

One dose, and a high percentage reported a large reduction or outright elimination of their psychological symptoms - and followups at 6 months+ showed a majority still retained the benefit from the single dose.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Maybe.

IIRC there was another mind-altering substance that was being tested under tightly controlled conditions for Soldiers with intractable, severe PTSD.

One dose, and a high percentage reported a large reduction or outright elimination of their psychological symptoms - and followups at 6 months+ showed a majority still retained the benefit from the single dose.
Ketamine; it was mentioned in the article.

Summerthyme
 

samus79

Veteran Member
Everyone takes DMT even if you’re not aware of it, it’s produced naturally in your brain. They think it might be released during sleep and is what makes us dream. I listened to a fascinating interview with Joe Rogan the other day, he had Rick Doblin on his podcast who’s been doing research with using psychadelics and MDMA (Ecstasy) to treat PTSD and getting great results. Here’s a link to Doblins organization MAPS with the interview, interesting stuff.

 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Maybe.

IIRC there was another mind-altering substance that was being tested under tightly controlled conditions for Soldiers with intractable, severe PTSD.

One dose, and a high percentage reported a large reduction or outright elimination of their psychological symptoms - and followups at 6 months+ showed a majority still retained the benefit from the single dose.
Yes, I don't recall which one it was, but I think it was related - there are the natural plants, a combination of plants, and some of the human-created stuff like LSD and a few others that seem to do similar things.

Showing the actual build brain connections in lab mice may actually help scientists understand how these things work and when they are appropriate (which is probably not for everyone).

Lower level stuff like Cannabis can help with depression too (some strains) but it usually isn't going to help extreme cases of PTSD, though it may help people sleep and get some relief of their symptoms.
 

Squib

Veteran Member
Joe Rogan often mentions DMT…listened to one of his podcast once about its use…especially with a trained person to “guide” you through the experience. Very fascinating!
 

jward

passin' thru
A psychedelic drug may help treat PTSD. But questions remain on how best to use—and regulate—it
By Kelly ServickMay. 19, 2021 , 12:00 PM

7-9 minutes


ca_0531NID_Treatment_online.jpg


An approach to treating post-traumatic stress disorder with MDMA emphasizes supervision from specially trained therapists.

MULTIDISCIPLINARY ASSOCIATION FOR PSYCHEDELIC STUDIES

The news last week that the compound 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), popularly called ecstasy, alleviated post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) in a phase 3 trial was a milestone in efforts to turn psychedelic drugs into mainstream treatments. It also highlighted a therapeutic marriage that is getting increasing attention: providing a mind-altering drug while a patient receives care from a trained therapist. “This is really kind of a new zeitgeist in psychiatry,” says Barbara Rothbaum, a clinical psychologist at Emory University.

Researchers funded by the nonprofit Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) reported in Nature Medicine that after “MDMA-assisted therapy,” two-thirds of treated participants no longer met the diagnostic criteria for PTSD. MAPS hopes to confirm the results in an ongoing second study and seek approval for the therapy from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as early as 2023. In 2017, the agency granted MDMA a “breakthrough” designation, which comes with extra guidance during the trial process and an expedited review.
The idea that psychedelic drugs and talk therapy work in synergy raises complex questions about how to optimize—and regulate—the drug experience. “It’s not understood what the role of MDMA or [another] psychedelic is in facilitating the psychotherapy, and what’s happening neurobiologically,” says Atheir Abbas, a neuroscientist and psychiatrist at Oregon Health & Science University. Because taking psychedelics without guidance can lead to negative experiences, “a guided, more psychotherapy-oriented approach is probably warranted,” he says. “But it’s not clear what aspects of that guidance are critical.”
As MDMA and other tightly controlled psychedelic compounds inch closer to regulatory approval, careful supervision from therapists may help overcome their reputation as illicit substances and fears of indiscriminate use. “MAPS has done very well to really emphasize that they’re not just trying to promote a compound,” says Rachel Yehuda, who directs the Center for Psychedelic Psychotherapy and Trauma Research at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.

MAPS researchers have worked for more than 3 decades to turn MDMA into a prescription medicine. The substance doesn’t produce the vivid hallucinations associated with either LSD or psilocybin, found in magic mushrooms. But it increases the brain’s levels of certain neurotransmitters, including serotonin and dopamine, to create a sense of well-being and heightened empathy. That might allow trauma survivors who face intrusive flashbacks to reflect on disturbing memories with less fear and judgment. “It gives you this fascinating ability toward self-compassion,” says Jennifer Mitchell, a neuroscientist at the University of California, San Francisco, and an investigator in the MAPS trial.
The psychotherapy the trial used looks different from the most thoroughly studied PTSD psychotherapies. Many of these direct a patient to confront painful memories. In one such approach, called prolonged exposure therapy, “we have them go back in their mind’s eye to the time of the traumatic event and recount it out loud, in the present tense, over and over,” Rothbaum says. “It’s a good therapy, but it’s also a hard therapy.”

In the MAPS approach, therapists are advised not to steer the conversation toward trauma, but to create a safe space to “support the participant’s own unfolding experience,” according to MAPS’s manual. The manual also describes carefully curated surroundings for patients, advising “fresh flowers and artwork.” Rothbaum, who studies and practices prolonged exposure therapy, describes MAPS sessions as “the sweetest therapy in the world for PTSD.”
In the trial, 79 participants underwent three 90-minute preparatory therapy sessions; three 8-hour “experimental sessions” with either MDMA or a placebo, spaced about 1 month apart; and nine 90-minute “integration sessions” to process their experiences. Of 42 people who got MDMA, 67% no longer met the diagnostic criteria for PTSD 2 months after their last experimental session. For the placebo group, that rate was 32%. Improvements in the placebo recipients were comparable to those observed in studies of existing approaches such as exposure therapy, says MAPS’s chief scientific officer, Berra Yazar-Klosinski.

Yehuda, who has long worried that prolonged exposure therapy can retraumatize some patients and discourage them from continuing treatment, says the research offers a new direction. But MDMA-assisted therapy needs to go head to head in clinical trials with established psychotherapies and the antidepressant drugs already approved for PTSD, says Arash Javanbakht, who directs the Stress, Trauma, and Anxiety Research Clinic at Wayne State University. Others want to test MDMA alongside more mainstream talk therapies. Rothbaum’s team hopes to launch a pilot study this year that combines the drug with prolonged exposure therapy. Psychologist Anne Wagner of the mental health clinic Remedy is preparing to launch a pilot study that brings an approach called cognitive processing therapy into the pre-and post-MDMA sessions. Adding this more structured psychotherapy might improve results for some patients, she says.
Should MDMA win FDA approval, the MAPS psychotherapy approach is likely to dominate at least at first. FDA doesn’t regulate psychotherapy, but Yazar-Klosinski says FDA has indicated any approval would stipulate that the drug be used alongside therapy from trained providers. (FDA declined to comment on how it might address supportive therapy in an approval.) A subsidiary of MAPS would manufacture the drug and hopes to receive a 5-year exclusivity period on marketing the drug for PTSD. It would sell MDMA only to providers who undergo MAPS’s 100-hour training program.
Uncertainty about the right talk therapy pairings extends to research on other psychedelic drugs. Albert Garcia-Romeu, a psychologist at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, is testing psilocybin-assisted addiction treatment. For a recent study of cigarette smokers, the team made “kind of our best guess” to pair the drug with cognitive behavioral therapy, a common addiction talk therapy, he says.

Potential FDA decisions on psilocybin and MDMA are still years off. But in November 2020, Oregon became the first state to legalize psilocybin for therapeutic use. It has appointed an advisory board to help make a plan for regulating the compound by December 2022.
Oregon’s measure describes a system of state-licensed providers and “a multisession, facilitator-guided, psychotherapy-type experience,” says Abbas, who sits on the advisory board but was speaking only for himself. What type of psychotherapy experience should that be? And what qualifies a facilitator? “That’s something the board is likely to have to tackle.”

Maybe.

IIRC there was another mind-altering substance that was being tested under tightly controlled conditions for Soldiers with intractable, severe PTSD.

One dose, and a high percentage reported a large reduction or outright elimination of their psychological symptoms - and followups at 6 months+ showed a majority still retained the benefit from the single dose.
 

jward

passin' thru
Maybe, though that doesn't sound right... I'll try to look it up after some chores.

;)
Maybe.

IIRC there was another mind-altering substance that was being tested under tightly controlled conditions for Soldiers with intractable, severe PTSD.

One dose, and a high percentage reported a large reduction or outright elimination of their psychological symptoms - and followups at 6 months+ showed a majority still retained the benefit from the single dose.

 

mzkitty

I give up.
Back in the early 70's, I tried LSD. I sat and drew a fantastic intricate picture with pastels for 12 hours until it wore off. LOL
I once tried psylocybin with one of my girlfriends. She got her mom's car and we drove around Canandaigua Lake for a few hours mooing at the cows until it wore off. I haven't done any of that other stuff. Those two experiences were really quite lovely for the *spiritual* side of things, but I didn't like how they made you feel kind of *speedy* physically, so I didn't imbibe much after that. I'm sure the acid I did wasn't any of the good stuff like Owsley or Sunshine, which might have made everything even better, but again it does have a way of letting you see the Big Picture.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
Psychedelics open your mind to things you do not want to be open to. (1 Peter 5:8)

I read the verse you quoted. There's not a hint of mention of mushrooms anywhere in it. Nor any other drug, chemical, or substance for that matter.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
As for "Pharmakia" if you ever even take an aspirin or drink coffee (caffeine) you have done some, and I'm not totally opposed to Big Pharma Research on this topic but I saw what happened with Tumeric and cannabis and I suspect they are likely to get smimlar and disappointing results if they try to make a modern "drug" formula out of it.

I doubt very strongly that "pharmakeia" is all medicines or even all substances. There's got to be some INTENT to it too.

God would not create coffee plants and then declare their use a form of witchcraft. That makes NO sense.
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
I doubt very strongly that "pharmakeia" is all medicines or even all substances. There's got to be some INTENT to it too.

God would not create coffee plants and then declare their use a form of witchcraft. That makes NO sense.

Drug companies can only patent a substance that has been adulterated a certain percentage.

They cant claim the whole of a plant in a patent because they did not create the plant.

But they can if they change it a certain amount, and thus you have most drugs. (isolates, etc)
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
soberness. you are not soberminded when you are on drugs.

I can see what you're getting at but that seems like a bit of a stretch. You'd have to apply it to virtually every condition out there; you're not soberminded when you're sleepy, hungry, or wounded either. Interestingly, you'd also not be soberminded when you're depressed, either. This would imply that the cure is as dangerous as the condition.
 

y2ksurvivor

Veteran Member
Maybe.

IIRC there was another mind-altering substance that was being tested under tightly controlled conditions for Soldiers with intractable, severe PTSD.

One dose, and a high percentage reported a large reduction or outright elimination of their psychological symptoms - and followups at 6 months+ showed a majority still retained the benefit from the single dose.

Ketamine
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
I can see what you're getting at but that seems like a bit of a stretch. You'd have to apply it to virtually every condition out there; you're not soberminded when you're sleepy, hungry, or wounded either. Interestingly, you'd also not be soberminded when you're depressed, either. This would imply that the cure is as dangerous as the condition.

Its simple bro.

Things you cant help (out of your control) you are not responsible for.

If you take something that makes you unsober on purpose, you are held responsible.
 
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