DISASTER Philadelphia: Tanker fire underneath I-95 causes entire northbound overpass to collapse

[Dennis Olson]

It was the Russians

No, it was Trump. I smell another indictment coming….

Yep--and ours was just because a homeless man set a bunch of cables on fire (apparently to keep warm). GA DOT had for some unaccountable reason stored masses of them under a whole series of bridges in that area, and the fire collapsed a main bridge. Atlanta traffic essentially suffered a heart attack.

I remember reading about that here.

Interesting I just checked ways to do from my house to work and it says 1:05. It's usually 50. I'm shocked it's not higher.

This is Sunday. Wait until tomorrow morning and try again.

But fire cant weaken metal and concrete to the point of collapse...

Actually, it can. Depends on what’s burning, how hot and how long. Also, did the truck hit a support?

 

[Profit of Doom]

But fire cant weaken metal and concrete to the point of collapse...

9-11

 

[greysage]

Under attack.

 

[Buick Electra]

(FSTCBL)

 

[Bud in Fla]

Any speculation on how the truck just happened to be where it could do the most damage or was it really just an accident?

 

[Buick Electra]

Burning fuel melts steel beams? Where have we heard that before?

 

[Dennis Olson]

Speculation? Pleeeeeaaaaaase

 

[Dennis Olson]

Burning fuel melts steel beams? Where have we heard that before? View attachment 418254

It doesn’t necessarily melt them. It negates their heat-treat strength. But we’re not going to have that discussion on this thread, RIGHT?

 

[BornFree]

I hear the people who were stranded on both sides of the bridge are going to have to sit and wait for the bridge to be repaired before they can carry on.

 

[Macgyver]

This is Sunday. Wait until tomorrow morning and try again.

Actually, it can. Depends on what’s burning, how hot and how long. Also, did the truck hit a support?

Weekend traffic on that road can actually be worse than during the week.

I've been under that bridge before, I think it's a clear span said to side.

 

[SAPPHIRE]

Terrorism foreign and domestic............! Where have we heard that before??? How convenient.... no accident IMO

 

[Macgyver]

Terrorism foreign and domestic............! Where have we heard that before??? How convenient.... no accident IMO

It's an off ramp that went under the highway with a tight curve.
Driver could have easily taken it way to fast and rolled over.

 

[Profit of Doom]

It doesn’t necessarily melt them. It negates their heat-treat strength. But we’re not going to have that discussion on this thread, RIGHT?

Noted. But earlier there was mention of the concrete spalling. With enough of that happening, the tension cables will lose their ability to maintain the roadway in the air.

 

[Macgyver]

Just thinking.
Since this bridge was essentially new and won't require any engineering, just whip out the plans.
Any idea how long it takes to recast all the parts? Or should I say how long to cure after pouring? To be put in place.

 

[WalknTrot]

Just thinking.
Since this bridge was essentially new and won't require any engineering, just whip out the plans.
Any idea how long it takes to recast all the parts? Or should I say how long to cure after pouring? To be put in place.

It will take the engineers at least weeks, probably months to assess the damage to adjacent portions of the road, and that's only the first step.

 

[Cedar Lake]

Just thinking.
Since this bridge was essentially new and won't require any engineering, just whip out the plans.
Any idea how long it takes to recast all the parts? Or should I say how long to cure after pouring? To be put in place.

Dennis is right.
I worked in a bridge fabrication plant that had built a bridge on I-95 in Bridgeport, Ct. about 2005-2006, and the same thing happened.
We had to replace a portion of the span because it got so hot that the bridge girders deflected due to high heat. Touched the road under the span.
High Steel in Lancaster, Pa. supplied a ''temporary span'' to bridge the gap after that burned section was removed.
I believe I-95 was reopened in about 7-10 days, had slow speeds in that area anyway because of multiple bridge projects on-going within a 6 mile distance.
Got to build the same span twice.
Total time replacement time to fabricate 8 replacement bridge girders and cross-frames was 14 weeks. Including abrasive blast cleaning, a 3 coat paint system, and a ''bridge lay-down'' assembly. Which means the structure was assembled to new elevations, then taken apart and shipped.
Took Ct. DOT 4 weeks to approve the replacement ''price''.

 

[Peter]

This is awful reminiscent of another time this happened on I 95 in Philly....anyone recall?

 

[Walrus Whisperer]

Burning fuel melts steel beams? Where have we heard that before? View attachment 418254

The towers, I'm thinking.

 

[dawgofwar10]

A million places to stop, yet underneath the bridge was the shady spot to evacuate your vehicle. I married a Dot, just did not know a thousand more would be in my face…

 

[Macgyver]

For those that can't visualize a truck rolling over on a ramp.
I added the arrows for direction of travel and a mark on the destroyed section of 95.



Here is a bigger snip showing the long ramp to still be hauling ass on before hitting the turn.

 

[Macgyver]

It will take the engineers at least weeks, probably months to assess the damage to adjacent portions of the road, and that's only the first step.

It's only a north and south bound span sitting on a wall on either side. There are no more spans north or south.
The ramp underneath essentially ran in a trench.

 

[Millwright]

No details on the driver yet?

I'm curious.

WAG, a fairly young, poorly trained person of color from another country.

I don't see as many of those types driving tankers, but I bet they are working into the more technical driving slots.

50K miles a year, I see a lot of truck drivers.

The demographics don't thrill me.

 

[Wildweasel]

Any speculation on how the truck just happened to be where it could do the most damage or was it really just an accident?

Looks like a serious left hand curve going under the bridge. A loaded tanker truck taking the exit ramp without slowing down enough is going to roll. Liquid loads sloshing around can roll tankers at unexpectedly low speeds. I'll wager the driver slowed to posted speeds but the curve needed him to slow down another 10mph.

Saw it happen locally some years ago when a loaded gasoline tanker went into a turn too fast, rolled and exploded into flames. Killed the truck driver and burned down several houses near the roadway. And the speed limit was only 35mph, but still too fast for the load shift by 3000 gallons in the tanker.

 

[Millwright]

...but still too fast for the load shift by 3000 gallons in the tanker.

I avoid being outside of them in a turn, at all costs.

 

[Wildweasel]

It will take the engineers at least weeks, probably months to assess the damage to adjacent portions of the road, and that's only the first step.

It will be PennDOT doing the job. Standard time for them to replace a bridge is 10 years, with a damaged bridge being shut down the whole time.

Meanwhile the bridge taken down by fire in Atlanta and one taken down by a burning truckload of Jack Daniels in Birmingham, AL some years earlier took only a few months to be replaced. But they weren't PennDOT projects.

 

[Millwright]

one taken down by a burning truckload of Jack Daniels in Birmingham, AL

And Jesus wept.

 

[Wildweasel]

This is awful reminiscent of another time this happened on I 95 in Philly....anyone recall?

South Philly near the stadiums maybe 20 or more years ago. And it was another tanker fire under the interstate.

 

[Macgyver]

No details on the driver yet?

I'm curious.

WAG, a fairly young, poorly trained person of color from another country.

I don't see as many of those types driving tankers, but I bet they are working into the more technical driving slots.

50K miles a year, I see a lot of truck drivers.

The demographics don't thrill me.

There is a swift driving school right down the road.

Only the finest graduates.

 

[mikeabn]

It was the Russians

Climate change! Or maybe aliens. Or the COVID vaccine...

 

[raven]

Climate change! Or maybe aliens. Or the COVID vaccine...

hypersonic missile

 

[mzkitty]

I am not seeing any news on the driver yet.

 

[WalknTrot]

14 months to replace the Minneapolis bridge collapse - granted it was over the Mississippi. I was down there on the U. of M. campus for some ding-danged seminar or other that summer - what a mess that caused.

 

[Bud in Fla]

Looks like a serious left hand curve going under the bridge. A loaded tanker truck taking the exit ramp without slowing down enough is going to roll. Liquid loads sloshing around can roll tankers at unexpectedly low speeds. I'll wager the driver slowed to posted speeds but the curve needed him to slow down another 10mph.

Saw it happen locally some years ago when a loaded gasoline tanker went into a turn too fast, rolled and exploded into flames. Killed the truck driver and burned down several houses near the roadway. And the speed limit was only 35mph, but still too fast for the load shift by 3000 gallons in the tanker.

Thanks for the info! I never drove a big rig but I heard that the worst load to haul was a partially filled tanker truck. - weight shifts if it not completely full.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Depends on whether or not the tank is a single product or compartmented, or has baffles in the tank. A smooth bore single product tank (no baffles) is the worst. You learn to shift, start and stop reeeeeeaaaaaaalllll easy pulling one.

 

[closet squirrel]

Interesting I just checked ways to do from my house to work and it says 1:05. It's usually 50. I'm shocked it's not higher.

I was going into Baltimore city about noon today (to the Hippodrome). I checked maps ahead of time because I was afraid it might be backed up to Baltimore. There was no backup but they did have those overhead message signs warning about the road closures in Philly

 

[Peter]

South Philly near the stadiums maybe 20 or more years ago. And it was another tanker fire under the interstate.

I remember that. Lived in DE then and it caused a ruckus then.

 

[Griz3752]

Concrete can fail rapidly and catastrophically when subjected to high temperatures. When concrete is setting, it is not 'drying' as many people believe, but goes through a process called hydration. This is where compounds in cement form chemical bonds with water molecules.

When you see old concrete on a bridge or highway, it looks completely dry, but it is still loaded with water. You don't see the water because it has combined with other compounds in the concrete, but the water is still there! When subjected to high heat, the water disassociates from these compounds and forms steam. This steam, rapidly expanding, violently blows small chunks of concrete away from the structure in a process known as spalling.

With enough heat and enough time, even large structures like the overpass shown in the OP will catastrophically fail.

Best
Doc

Any thoughts on the intensity/duration required to cause this collapse?

I've seen a few explosive charge aftermath but never a fire-induced collapse.

 

[SageRock]

Ukrainian saboteurs. Because the U.S. is still not sending enough money. /sarc

 

[Macgyver]

The OT is flowing. Pendot cams show excavators on site already.

Replacing this will probably go right to the contractor that built it a year ago.

 

[Red Baron]

Any thoughts on the intensity/duration required to cause this collapse?

I've seen a few explosive charge aftermath but never a fire-induced collapse.

IIRC, something like un-heattreated mild steel will start to lose strength at around 600 degree F. The higher the heat, the higher the load, the longer the exposure, the sooner the metal will yield.