USA Now is the time to legalize (and tax) drugs, prostitution, and gambling

Fred

Middle of the road
There are many supporting links in the text at the link below, which I am too lazy to go through and reproduce here.

As always, I take issue with the word 'legalize' instead of the word 'decriminalize' (I also take issue with the notion of taxing these things, but that's another post for another day). ;)

=====================================
http://reason.com/news/show/133598.html

Paying With Our Sins
Now is the time to legalize (and tax) drugs, prostitution, and gambling

The Obama administration's drug czar made news recently by saying he wanted to end all loose talk about a "war on drugs." "We're not at war with people in this country," said the czar, Gil Kerlikowske, who favors forcing people into treatment programs rather than jail cells.

Here's a better idea—and one that will help the federal and state governments fill their coffers: Legalize drugs and then tax sales of them. And while we're at it, welcome all forms of gambling (rather than just the few currently and arbitrarily allowed) and let prostitution go legit too. All of these vices, involving billions of dollars and consenting adults, already take place. They just take place beyond the taxman's reach.

Legalizing the world's oldest profession probably wasn't what Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, meant when he said that we should never allow a crisis to go to waste. But turning America into a Sin City on a Hill could help President Obama pay for his ambitious plans to overhaul health care, invest in green energy, and create gee-whiz trains that whisk "through towns at speeds over 100 miles an hour." More taxed vices would certainly lead to significant new revenue streams at every level. That's one of the reasons 52 percent of voters in a recent Zogby poll said they support legalizing, taxing and regulating the growth and sale of marijuana. Similar cases could be made for prostitution and all forms of gambling.

In terms of economic stimulation and growth, legalization would end black markets that generate huge amounts of what economists call "deadweight losses," or activity that doesn't contribute to increased productivity. Rather than spending precious time and resources avoiding the law (or, same thing, paying the law off), producers and consumers could more easily get on with business and the huge benefits of working and playing in plain sight.

Consider prostitution. No reliable estimates exist on the number of prostitutes in the United States or aggregate demand for their services. However, Nevada, one of the two states that currently allows paid sex acts, is considering a tax of $5 for each transaction. State Senator Bob Coffin argues further that imposing state taxes on existing brothels could raise $2 million a year (at present, brothels are allowed only in rural counties, which get all the tax revenue), and legalizing prostitution in cities like Las Vegas could swell state coffers by $200 million annually.

A conservative extrapolation from Nevada to the rest of the country would easily mean billions of dollars annually in new tax revenues. Rhode Island, which has never explicitly banned prostitution, is on the verge of finally doing so—but with the state facing a $661 million budget shortfall, perhaps fully legalizing the vice (and then taking a cut) would be the smarter play.

Every state except Hawaii and Utah already permits various types of gambling, from state lotteries to racetracks to casinos. In 2007, such activity generated more than $92 billion in receipts, much of which was earmarked for the elderly and education. Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, has introduced legislation to repeal the federal ban on online gambling; and a 2008 study by PriceWaterhouseCoopers estimates that legalizing cyberspace betting alone could yield as much as $5 billion a year in new tax revenues. Add to that expanded opportunities for less exotic forms of wagering at, say, the local watering hole and the tax figure would be vastly larger.

Based on estimates from the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, Americans spend at least $64 billion a year on illegal drugs. And according to a 2006 study by the former president of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, Jon Gettman, marijuana is already the top cash crop in a dozen states and among the top five crops in 39 states, with a total annual value of $36 billion.

A 2005 cost-benefit analysis of marijuana prohibition by Jeffrey Miron, a Harvard economist, calculated that ending marijuana prohibition would save $7.7 billion in direct state and federal law enforcement costs while generating more than $6 billion a year if it were taxed at the same rate as alcohol and tobacco. The drug czar's office says that a gram of pure cocaine costs between $100 and $150; a gram of heroin almost $400; and a bulk gram of marijuana between $15 and $20. Those transactions are now occurring off the books of business and government alike.

As the history of alcohol prohibition underscores, there are also many non-economic reasons to favor legalization of vices: Prohibition rarely achieves its desired goals and instead increases violence (when was the last time a tobacco kingpin was killed in a deal gone wrong?) and destructive behavior (it's hard enough to get help if you're a substance abuser and that much harder if you're a criminal too). And by policing vice, law enforcement is too often distracted at best or corrupted at worst, as familiar headlines about cops pocketing bribes and seized drugs attest. There's a lot to be said for treating consenting adults like, well, adults.

But there is an economic argument as well, one that Franklin Roosevelt understood when he promised to end Prohibition during the 1932 presidential campaign. "Our tax burden would not be so heavy nor the forms that it takes so objectionable," thundered Roosevelt, "if some reasonable proportion of the unaccountable millions now paid to those whose business had been reared upon this stupendous blunder could be made available for the expense of government."

Roosevelt could also have talked about how legitimate fortunes can be made out of goods and services associated with vice. Part of his family fortune came from the opium trade, after all, and he and other leaders during the Depression oversaw a generally orderly re-legalization of the nation's breweries and distilleries.

There's every reason to believe that today's drug lords could go legit as quickly and easily as, say, Ernest and Julio Gallo, the venerable winemakers who once sold their product to Al Capone. Indeed, here's a (I hope soon-to-be-legal) bet worth making: If marijuana is legalized, look for the scion of a marijuana plantation operation to be president within 50 years.

Legalizing vice will not balance government deficits by itself—that will largely depend on spending cuts, which seem beyond the reach of all politicians. But in a time when every penny counts and the economy needs stimulation, allowing prostitution, gambling and drugs could give us all a real lift.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Agreed.

Prostitution is a victimless crime. Legalization and licensing would get most, if not all, of the underaged and diseased hookers out of business, eliminate the cruelty of pimps, and grant a measure of protection to prostitutes, because they would no longer fear prosecution for reporting crimes.

Licensing of prostitutes was first tried during the War Between the States. A Union Army general in Tennessee instituted licensing, with mandatory medical exams, to try to stop the spread of STDs among troops. Cases dropped from 40% to 6% in months.

Drugs? There are already laws in place for "Crimes Committed Under the Influence." Users wouldn't have to fear criminal prosecution, lost custody of children or lost jobs for seeking therapy. Drugs could be sold in licensed outlets just as liquor is. Prison space would be cleared for violent offenders instead of packed with non-violent, casual users and dealers. Pushers would be off the streets, smuggling would stop, and the DEA could be dissolved to pursue REAL criminals.
 

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So lets see, get rid of all the cops, and legalize (and tax) drugs, prostitution, and gambling.

Sound like one HELL of a plan...pun intended.

prayers sent

:kk2:
 

Bullwinkle

Membership Revoked
Why does everything have to be taxed?

What gives the government the right to tax anything on a whim?
 

LXF71

Senior Member
Do you realize what a huge indicator this is as to how far this country has fallen and how desperate the government is for cash? The forfeiture laws have been a huge cash cow for law enforcement and local governments, to the point of rampant abuse. But that isnt even doing it for TPTB. To have the Governer of Kalifornia, the Federal Drug Czar start saying things like this, is phenominal.
 

TECH32

Veteran Member
Yes it will raise new tax revenue, but it will ALSO mean a decline in fines charged to those who are arrested. Get caught with drugs, and even if you get probation you can expect to pay several hundred dollars in court costs and fines.

The Govt. knows how much money it makes from those fines. What it doesn't know is how much it will make through taxes.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
I am starting to really wish there was an 'Undiscovered Country" still out there somewhere.

kind of like America before the rest of the world got here.
 

dieseltrooper

Inactive
How about details on exactly how this would work for drugs? From manufacture to distribution, to use?

If gvt sanctions,licenses, and controls all aspects of the business, don't they also assume all liability arising from the sale and use?
If employers refuse to hire those who test positive for these gvt approved substances, do those people receive unemployment and other gvt bennies?
 

Vicki

Girls With Guns Member
We really are living in hell aren't we? I really can't believe some of the things I read on here. Whatever is in this article I did not read because I can't get past the headlines. I just got smacked in the head with the forest instead of the trees and all I see is hell. Unbelieveable!

Vicki
 

Fred

Middle of the road
Whatever is in this article I did not read because I can't get past the headlines.
Why? Are you concerned you'll suddenly start taking drugs, visiting hookers, and gambling if those things are decriminalized? If not, why the concern over what someone else does with their life, since it isn't impacting you at all?

(note: I do not drink, smoke, take drugs, or visit prostitutes. I have been known to play poker on occasion.)
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Drugs were legal and readily available in general stores prior to the 20th century.

Prostitution was legal.

And this was back in those "good old days" you all wish for.
 

gelatinous

Eyes WIDE Open
Hell yes!

We can train all the high school kids in the fine arts of home meth manufacturing, "how to make prostitution your life's profession", and "counting cards 101".
 

dieseltrooper

Inactive
Try to think through the real-world unintended consequences of this. It will not be an unregulated free-for-all. Gvt will have to micro-manage every aspect.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
Go ahead. Legalize it, but if you come into my AO all meth'd out or souped up on crack and start shit with me I will still shoot you.
 

conundrum

Inactive
Sure, why not our government already is beginning to bear a strong resemblance to the mafia anyway.

Potterville here we come.

And to think what this country used to stand for. :shr:
 

Nuthatch

Membership Revoked
dieseltrooper: "If gvt sanctions,licenses, and controls all aspects of the business, don't they also assume all liability arising from the sale and use?

If employers refuse to hire those who test positive for these gvt approved substances, do those people receive unemployment and other gvt bennies?"

Can be answered re: alcohol and I would guess would be similarly handled. Remember, like other drugs, alcohol was legal then it wasn't and now it is again.

My question is, if pot becomes legal can I go buy more than one box of pseudoephedrine a day or three a month? ;) Our allergies are killing us this year and those products WORK. Should have bought three a month every month of the year...
 

big_sarge

Membership Revoked
I am just curious.....why are so many people against legalizing prostitution?

...and don't come back with the answer of child slaves and people being shuttled around the world against their will.

I am talking about a women who makes a conscious decision to sleep with a man for a few dollars....
 
lol

Why? Are you concerned you'll suddenly start taking drugs, visiting hookers, and gambling if those things are decriminalized?



FL is absolutly correct in her last post. It was the effect of the control freak religionists who went on a crusade and tried to force mankind into control structures that are basically anti-human.

Drugs WERE legal up until the last century. Prostitution was more or less legal or acknowledged in most areas of this country. Ditto for gambling.

All these things still go on, everywhere, but now they have spawned a culture of crime and disrespect for law, and order, and parents, besides ruining the lives of tens of millions of people.


VICKI, are you aware that the United States of America incarcerates, locks up per capita, more people than Russia? Or China?

Land of the Free? Home of the Brave?


Many of you religionists are getting led down the garden path like cows with rings through your noses.

YOU are supporting locking people up and throwing away the keys, for what in the most part ARE victimless crimes............ because those acts make you go EWWWWWWWWWWWW.


What most of you fail to realize is that YOU are helping to build a POLICE STATE that WILL one day come for YOU. And if that day comes you won't like prison any better than the millions you flippantly toss in their everyday because they live their lives differently than you.


Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, she sucks c_cks for a living? Throw her in jail for the rest of her life.........

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, she reads a Bible for a living? Throw her in jail for the rest of her life.........



Prisons should be saved for the criminally violent, and those that prey on other people. Most of those 'sins' can be regulated without people in prison, and like Casinos in Montana, they can be run without untoward illegal violence. The so called 'war on drugs' hasn't solved a thing except to make day to day criminality commonplace, and raised the corruption of police and the law system, and turned tens of millions of otherwise law abiding decent people into 'criminals'.
 

denfoote

Inactive

That assumes the Martians do not have a Second Amendment!! ;)

native-americans-fighting-terrorism.gif
 

Ozarkian

Veteran Member
I guess all that is fine Fred for those that have no moral standards. The more with no morals the worse it gets! :stfu:
 

TECH32

Veteran Member
I guess all that is fine Fred for those that have no moral standards. The more with no morals the worse it gets! :stfu:

I have morals and part of my moral code is not to tell other Adults what they can and cannot willingly do. To do otherwise would be to impose *my* moral beliefs on them, and I can't do that without giving them the right to impose theirs on me.

See how it works?

You make your choices and either benfit from, or suffer the consequence of those choises. THAT is Liberty. THAT is Freedom.

I'm surprised more Americans don't see that...
 

Ozarkian

Veteran Member
No Fred I don't need a law, and what I can't understand Tech32 is why more people can't see that when the majority becomes the ones without morals is when everything goes to hell. Kind of like what was going on down below while Moses was up in the mountains getting the ten commandments from God.
Why do you think some of the idiot laws are being passed now. They are not for your freedom of speech or freedom anything sir.
 

TECH32

Veteran Member
No Fred I don't need a law, and what I can't understand Tech32 is why more people can't see that when the majority becomes the ones without morals is when everything goes to hell. Kind of like what was going on down below while Moses was up in the mountains getting the ten commandments from God.
Why do you think some of the idiot laws are being passed now. They are not for your freedom of speech or freedom anything sir.

Which of the Ten Commandments says you shouldn't use drugs? Shouldn't gamble?
 

Sligo

Membership Revoked
Why? Are you concerned you'll suddenly start taking drugs, visiting hookers, and gambling if those things are decriminalized?



FL is absolutly correct in her last post. It was the effect of the control freak religionists who went on a crusade and tried to force mankind into control structures that are basically anti-human.

Drugs WERE legal up until the last century. Prostitution was more or less legal or acknowledged in most areas of this country. Ditto for gambling.

All these things still go on, everywhere, but now they have spawned a culture of crime and disrespect for law, and order, and parents, besides ruining the lives of tens of millions of people.


VICKI, are you aware that the United States of America incarcerates, locks up per capita, more people than Russia? Or China?

Land of the Free? Home of the Brave?


Many of you religionists are getting led down the garden path like cows with rings through your noses.

YOU are supporting locking people up and throwing away the keys, for what in the most part ARE victimless crimes............ because those acts make you go EWWWWWWWWWWWW.


What most of you fail to realize is that YOU are helping to build a POLICE STATE that WILL one day come for YOU. And if that day comes you won't like prison any better than the millions you flippantly toss in their everyday because they live their lives differently than you.


Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, she sucks c_cks for a living? Throw her in jail for the rest of her life.........

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww, she reads a Bible for a living? Throw her in jail for the rest of her life.........



Prisons should be saved for the criminally violent, and those that prey on other people. Most of those 'sins' can be regulated without people in prison, and like Casinos in Montana, they can be run without untoward illegal violence. The so called 'war on drugs' hasn't solved a thing except to make day to day criminality commonplace, and raised the corruption of police and the law system, and turned tens of millions of otherwise law abiding decent people into 'criminals'.

So true. Alcohol is legal. I rarely partake. Pot is readily available. I quit over 20 years ago. Heroin was a brand name for a company named Bayer and was considered a miracle drug to get Civil War Veterans unhooked from Morphine. Cocaine was sold at the General Store over the counter, and was an ingredient of "Coca-Cola". People had very sound moral values at that time in our country's history. We criminalized everything, including alcohol, and what grew was organized crime, killings in the streets, and general mayhem. We learned our lesson from Prohibition and re-legalized alcohol. We still have people with problems with it, we always will. But look what drugs have done to our country and Mexico. We should slap a label on it and sell it from behind a counter to people over the age of 21 that CHOOSE to imbibe. I for one am tired of driving through cities and wondering if I'll be the next one to get my head blown off by a stray bullet from "drug wars".
 

Ozarkian

Veteran Member
Come on Tech you know better. This isn't about the ten commandments, that was just an example of how things work and you know it. I could dig up the verses in the Bible that are against both of those things though, but it will have to be later. I have to go somewhere. :ld:
 
....

this may come as a major shock to you Ozarkian, but there is NOTHING in the United States Constitution or Bill of Rights that gives the Bible jurisdiction over the Freedoms from government tyranny that the Constitution and Bill of Rights are supposed to protect US from.
 

TECH32

Veteran Member
Come on Tech you know better. This isn't about the ten commandments, that was just an example of how things work and you know it. I could dig up the verses in the Bible that are against both of those things though, but it will have to be later. I have to go somewhere. :ld:

But those would be YOUR beliefs - based on YOUR religion.

Doesn't Freedom OF Religion mean NOT being bound by what someone ELSE thinks? Again, as long as whatever is going on is the voluntary decision of Adults, where do you get off imposing YOUR views on them? Why can't they then impose their views on you?
 

TECH32

Veteran Member
How do you figure Prostitution is a victim-less crime? Maybe we should ask the wives and children if they think they are victim-less.

Why not ask the wives and children of someone who drinks too much if it is "victim-less"? Why not ask the wives and children of someone who gambles too much? Or eats too much? Or spends all their time at work?

Should those things be illegal too?
 

David the Aspie

Resident Aspie
Agreed.

Prostitution is a victimless crime. Legalization and licensing would get most, if not all, of the underaged and diseased hookers out of business, eliminate the cruelty of pimps, and grant a measure of protection to prostitutes, because they would no longer fear prosecution for reporting crimes.

Licensing of prostitutes was first tried during the War Between the States. A Union Army general in Tennessee instituted licensing, with mandatory medical exams, to try to stop the spread of STDs among troops. Cases dropped from 40% to 6% in months.

Drugs? There are already laws in place for "Crimes Committed Under the Influence." Users wouldn't have to fear criminal prosecution, lost custody of children or lost jobs for seeking therapy. Drugs could be sold in licensed outlets just as liquor is. Prison space would be cleared for violent offenders instead of packed with non-violent, casual users and dealers. Pushers would be off the streets, smuggling would stop, and the DEA could be dissolved to pursue REAL criminals.

Hear, hear, Fruit Loop! I agree with your sentiments to a tee. I was going to type out my own reply but you sum it up perfectly.

As for prostitution, for some males such as myself, it could be rather therapeutic and relieve psychological stress and melancholy. Being an Aspie and an omega male to boot, getting a girlfriend is not going to happen and I am devoid of any ability to flirt or otherwise "woo" a lady.
 

David the Aspie

Resident Aspie
So lets see, get rid of all the cops, and legalize (and tax) drugs, prostitution, and gambling.

Sound like one HELL of a plan...pun intended.

prayers sent

:kk2:

Rex,

No one is suggesting terminating the employment of all police officers. I do agree with strict regulation and ensuring no children are lured into these acts.

Some drugs might need to remain illegal due to the fact that their very usage makes people violent. However, if they are only harming themselves and putting no one else in danger, they should be free to carry on as they please.

The State must enforce ethical boundaries. However, morality has no place in the court room. Your sense of morality and another person's may differ. After all, ALL morality is subjective and relative. Moral absolutism is a fallacy.
 

David the Aspie

Resident Aspie
We really are living in hell aren't we? I really can't believe some of the things I read on here. Whatever is in this article I did not read because I can't get past the headlines. I just got smacked in the head with the forest instead of the trees and all I see is hell. Unbelieveable!

Vicki

Vicki,

Once upon a time, there were no laws outlawing narcotics. Some people were addicted to opium but the fact that it was legal kept prices low and no one broke into another person's domicile to steal cash or goods to barter for said opium.

As for prostitution, it is the world's oldest profession. It is very difficult for omega males to find mates and even some beta males have difficulty as well as most women seem to prefer alpha males. I do support regulating it to prevent the proliferation of diseases and to ensure no women are held captive against their will or otherwise forced into it.

Many people tend to think because the prostitute is a female that she is a "victim". This is a residual effect of Victorian-era morality. Some women DO enjoy sex and they are able to enjoy sex and earn a living at the same time. After all, its not like they are 'working' as a lawyer or anything... :p
 

David the Aspie

Resident Aspie
Hell yes!

We can train all the high school kids in the fine arts of home meth manufacturing, "how to make prostitution your life's profession", and "counting cards 101".

Actually, gelatinous, I am unsure if meth should be legal. That would depend on whether or not the usage of it makes one violent from mere usage.

If not, then it should be legal. If it is legal, home meth manufacturing would cease as the manufacture in sanitary facilities and the cost reduction from legalisation would make any "home made" meth both unprofitable for the 'cook' and undesirable from the consumer.

After all, when was the last time you got your beer from some guy distilling his wares from his old, grimy bathtub?
 
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