CORONA Market Bloodbath: Middle East Stocks Crater; Kuwait Halted; Aramco Below IPO; Dow Indicated Down 500
- Thread starter CaryC
- Start date
- Status
mzkitty
I give up.
northern watch
TB Fanatic
BloombergVerified account @business now1 minute ago
Oil markets fell the most since the U.S. war in Iraq in 1991 after the disintegration of the OPEC+ alliance triggered an all-out price-war among the world’s biggest producers
Oil markets fell the most since the U.S. war in Iraq in 1991 after the disintegration of the OPEC+ alliance triggered an all-out price-war among the world’s biggest producers
IIRC, a "down limit" means that trading is halted.
Intended to slow down and calm markets.
It often just spreads panic in a worst case scenario.
northern watch
TB Fanatic
First Squawk @FirstSquawk 45m45 minutes ago
US crude prices briefly drop below $28 a barrel after OPEC deal failure sparks price war from@CNBC
US crude prices briefly drop below $28 a barrel after OPEC deal failure sparks price war from
bobfall2005
Veteran Member
The oil thing started with demand drop. And future demand looking like it will stay down.
Economic downturn=less demand. Price drops.
Saudi Arabia was unwilling to support production cutbacks to increase price. That's political. It hurts them economically. So they are doing it to help someone.
The futures pullback is easier. It takes less money to move the futures around than it takes to move the actual market around. Plus this upward intervention spanks the folks driving futures into the toilet.
Someone got the their shorts crushed.
The panic folks are part of this. The other part is someone(s) are driving the markets down and taking advantage of the panic.
This part, looks to be, political too.
But a well timed intervention can hurt the political short sellers.
It's politics with trillions being driven by billions.
Economic downturn=less demand. Price drops.
Saudi Arabia was unwilling to support production cutbacks to increase price. That's political. It hurts them economically. So they are doing it to help someone.
The futures pullback is easier. It takes less money to move the futures around than it takes to move the actual market around. Plus this upward intervention spanks the folks driving futures into the toilet.
Someone got the their shorts crushed.
The panic folks are part of this. The other part is someone(s) are driving the markets down and taking advantage of the panic.
This part, looks to be, political too.
But a well timed intervention can hurt the political short sellers.
It's politics with trillions being driven by billions.
Mrs. Claus - There are several levels of limits depending on the item and when it is traded. For equity indexes (S&P 500, Dow Jones Industrial Average, etc.) there are trading limits down during normal market hours of 7% with a pause and then it goes to 13% with a pause, and the max on a day is 20%. Those are often referred to as circuit breakers because they insert a pause in the market.
What is happening today is the futures markets are trading in extended hours on the Globex system. That market has a down limit of 5% which will hold until the regular markets open at 9:30 AM EDT. That target is 2819 for the emini S&P 500 and it arrived. If you were watching a chart you would see that there were a few trades above that price and trading stopped when it hit that number again. Depending on one's phrasing that would be limit down, or if it had gone through all the limits it would be called lock limit down. Lock limit down is not unheard of in agricultural markets, but is pretty rare in indices. Hope that helps.
What is happening today is the futures markets are trading in extended hours on the Globex system. That market has a down limit of 5% which will hold until the regular markets open at 9:30 AM EDT. That target is 2819 for the emini S&P 500 and it arrived. If you were watching a chart you would see that there were a few trades above that price and trading stopped when it hit that number again. Depending on one's phrasing that would be limit down, or if it had gone through all the limits it would be called lock limit down. Lock limit down is not unheard of in agricultural markets, but is pretty rare in indices. Hope that helps.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I suggest that members take advantage of the lowered fuel prices. I don't think it's going to last, but while it does top off your fuel storage, if you have that ability. Though I've discussed this many times over the years, you MUST know what you're doing to safely store fuel.
Diesel is much safer to handle and store than gasoline, but it's not risk-free. If a diesel fire does start, it's going to be hotter and somewhat longer-lived than a gasoline fire. I'm not presenting a fuel safety presentation here. If you need that , please go find qualified instruction.
I will note just a few high points, though. Gasoline storage tanks must have static electricity protection. Additionally, though steel tanks can be used (with proper grounding), all fixtures in actual contact with fuel transfer must be of non-sparking materials. If you do have storage tanks - or even five gallon cans - be sure you store them downhill of your house! Also, if applicable, don't store them on a grade that could send a cascade of fuel downhill to your neighbor's house! Finally - and no less importantly - you should have the correct fire extinguishers for liquid fuels. Again, this is just scratching the surface. It's your responsibility to educate yourself.
The fuel question is much like what we discussed prior to Y2K. If Corona gets totally out of hand - and I'm not predicting that it will - you may not be able to buy fuel at any price. Some of you might recall my Hurricane Katrina experiences. Because I had stored diesel fuel I was able to keep my freezer running and have at least minimal creature comforts, while most people were living in the mud on their front lawns. I'm a big believer in fuel storage and even a relatively small supply can make a huge difference in your living situation. Think about it.
If you have a 150 or 250 gallon propane tank, this will probably be a good time to top it off.
Far short of apocalyptic scenarios, having safe fuel storage can just make good economic sense.
Best regards
Doc
Diesel is much safer to handle and store than gasoline, but it's not risk-free. If a diesel fire does start, it's going to be hotter and somewhat longer-lived than a gasoline fire. I'm not presenting a fuel safety presentation here. If you need that , please go find qualified instruction.
I will note just a few high points, though. Gasoline storage tanks must have static electricity protection. Additionally, though steel tanks can be used (with proper grounding), all fixtures in actual contact with fuel transfer must be of non-sparking materials. If you do have storage tanks - or even five gallon cans - be sure you store them downhill of your house! Also, if applicable, don't store them on a grade that could send a cascade of fuel downhill to your neighbor's house! Finally - and no less importantly - you should have the correct fire extinguishers for liquid fuels. Again, this is just scratching the surface. It's your responsibility to educate yourself.
The fuel question is much like what we discussed prior to Y2K. If Corona gets totally out of hand - and I'm not predicting that it will - you may not be able to buy fuel at any price. Some of you might recall my Hurricane Katrina experiences. Because I had stored diesel fuel I was able to keep my freezer running and have at least minimal creature comforts, while most people were living in the mud on their front lawns. I'm a big believer in fuel storage and even a relatively small supply can make a huge difference in your living situation. Think about it.
If you have a 150 or 250 gallon propane tank, this will probably be a good time to top it off.
Far short of apocalyptic scenarios, having safe fuel storage can just make good economic sense.
Best regards
Doc
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
Sound thinking Doc.
Our markets are experiencing a piercing of the bubble that THEY CREATED. The popping of this bubble is deflationary..
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
A deflationary collapse eventually becomes hyper inflationary.....given time.
that is the first thing that came to mind
did his move on some fam members, coincide with his oil decisions//?
as an aside
bro called cpl days ago and said gas was $1 ltr in his locale
here yesterday it was still $1.15/ltr
Granana
Deceased
We just had the fuel filled Friday. I was surprised the price was pretty good. We keep 500 gallons of high octane, plus 150 gallons of diesel for the tractor.
We would have done better if we had waited a week or two due to what is happening but I have found that you buy when you are low and it all evens out somehow.l
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Most of this trading and dumping is not being done by flesh and blood but by computer’s programmed by algorithms that were designed for a bull market. Since 08 the markets have pretty much just gone up. Now these programs are executing trades in an environment that they really were not designed for. Nobody really knows how they are going to react therefore the violent swings. And now with a $30 handle in crude their computer chips are going to short circuit.
twobarkingdogs
Veteran Member
IMO - If you can afford to I would dollar cost average my cost down. If I was in good quality stocks I would hold the shares. If I was in funds I might sell 75% and sit on the cash to ride things out. But I would continue to invest
YMMV
tbd
colonel holman
Veteran Member
This is not TEOTWAWKI. Markets are overreacting (just as democrats are pushing), plus absorbing a natural and needed correction. A buying opoortuinty, especially if to fund longer term retirement. There has never ever been a 10-yr period where stocks lost value. They have always recovered from any heavy losses within that time frame. If your portfolio is for retirement more than 10 yrs out, these year over year fluctuations are more distractions than threats. Market have always grown over the long haul, even if you extrapolate back before the US was founded. Even today, you have not lost any $$, unless you sell. And trying to “time” the market by buying and selling short term, will run you broke, just like any casino
Last edited:
Switchback
Veteran Member
In the end, let us know how it all worked out.
colonel holman
Veteran Member
A most excellent description.
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
This time may be different
colonel holman
Veteran Member
What would alter this very long term trend would be the defeat of PDJT in November. That would plunge me well into the eating crow category
NoMoreLibs
Kill Commie's, Every Single One Of Them!
It's so bad that Marketwatch won't even list oil prices. No, this stuff isn't coordinated.
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
Mr. TRUMP will face strong headwinds..even counting in his weak opponents. I hope he perseveres.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
10 year yield @ .427 this is historic and unprecedented. This is global and started with the repo blowout last September. The virus is simply the catalyst. The Fed is going to have to announce cutting rates to zero now and officially restarting Q.E. And they are going to have to pump trillions and damn quick. We are facing a deflationary debt implosion which is always what happens with a failing fiat currency except this time it’s global. The Fed has to move today and hopefully in coordination with other central banks or it’s going to get away from them.
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
Agreed....your view concerning a deflationary debt implosion describes to a 'T' where we stand at the moment
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Breaking....
Fed announcing overnight repo limits going from $100 billion to $250 billion and also increasing the multi-day repo. I'll try to find the press release.
Edit....
The article below says to at least $150 billion but according to Steve Liesman from CNBC he said it was $250 billion dollars.
Fed announcing overnight repo limits going from $100 billion to $250 billion and also increasing the multi-day repo. I'll try to find the press release.
Edit....
The article below says to at least $150 billion but according to Steve Liesman from CNBC he said it was $250 billion dollars.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
WASHINGTON — The Federal Reserve Bank of New York on Monday announced that it will ramp up the amount of short-term loans it offers banks, an effort to keep cash flowing smoothly through the financial system as markets gyrate amid fears about economic fallout from the coronavirus.
The infection has now sickened about 110,000 people, and as it spreads through the United States and Europe, worries are mounting that growth will slow dramatically. That, together with plunging oil prices, has sent global markets into turmoil.
Between Monday and Thursday, the New York Fed pledged to increase its daily offering of overnight repurchase agreements — essentially short-term loans to eligible banks — to at least $150 billion from $100 billion . It is also increasing its offering of two-week loans starting tomorrow, to at least $45 billion from at least $20 billion.
The moves “are intended to ensure that the supply of reserves remains ample and to mitigate the risk of money market pressures,” the New York Fed said in a statement.
“They should help support smooth functioning of funding markets as market participants implement business resiliency plans in response to the coronavirus,” the statement said, though it added that the Fed will “continue to adjust” operations as needed.
The Fed had already been active in the market for short-lived loans between banks and financial institutions — called the repurchase or “repo” market — for months, starting after rates in that obscure but important corner of the financial system’s plumbing spiked back in September. It had recently been shrinking the size of its injections as markets calmed.
But demand at its regular repo operations surged as markets swung, fueling speculation by investors that the Fed might lift the size of its offerings.
Officials have also been buying $60 billion in short-term Treasury bills each month to build up the financial system’s buffer of bank reserves, essentially deposits at the Fed. The goal was to keep cash flowing smoothly so that borrowing costs in money market would stay under control.
“We will ensure that the supply of reserves in the banking system remains ample,” John C. Williams, the New York Fed President, said in a speech last week. “We are monitoring conditions in money markets closely.”
www.nytimes.com
The infection has now sickened about 110,000 people, and as it spreads through the United States and Europe, worries are mounting that growth will slow dramatically. That, together with plunging oil prices, has sent global markets into turmoil.
Between Monday and Thursday, the New York Fed pledged to increase its daily offering of overnight repurchase agreements — essentially short-term loans to eligible banks — to at least $150 billion from $100 billion . It is also increasing its offering of two-week loans starting tomorrow, to at least $45 billion from at least $20 billion.
The moves “are intended to ensure that the supply of reserves remains ample and to mitigate the risk of money market pressures,” the New York Fed said in a statement.
“They should help support smooth functioning of funding markets as market participants implement business resiliency plans in response to the coronavirus,” the statement said, though it added that the Fed will “continue to adjust” operations as needed.
The Fed had already been active in the market for short-lived loans between banks and financial institutions — called the repurchase or “repo” market — for months, starting after rates in that obscure but important corner of the financial system’s plumbing spiked back in September. It had recently been shrinking the size of its injections as markets calmed.
But demand at its regular repo operations surged as markets swung, fueling speculation by investors that the Fed might lift the size of its offerings.
Officials have also been buying $60 billion in short-term Treasury bills each month to build up the financial system’s buffer of bank reserves, essentially deposits at the Fed. The goal was to keep cash flowing smoothly so that borrowing costs in money market would stay under control.
“We will ensure that the supply of reserves in the banking system remains ample,” John C. Williams, the New York Fed President, said in a speech last week. “We are monitoring conditions in money markets closely.”
Fed Moves to Keep Credit Flowing and Money Markets Calm Amid Coronavirus Turmoil (Published 2020)
The central bank urged banks to work with their affected customers and moved to keep the financial system functioning smoothly.
doctor_fungcool
TB Fanatic
Watch word of the day.....UNCHARTED WATERSWASHINGTON — The Federal Reserve Bank of New York on Monday announced that it will ramp up the amount of short-term loans it offers banks, an effort to keep cash flowing smoothly through the financial system as markets gyrate amid fears about economic fallout from the coronavirus.
The infection has now sickened about 110,000 people, and as it spreads through the United States and Europe, worries are mounting that growth will slow dramatically. That, together with plunging oil prices, has sent global markets into turmoil.
Between Monday and Thursday, the New York Fed pledged to increase its daily offering of overnight repurchase agreements — essentially short-term loans to eligible banks — to at least $150 billion from $100 billion . It is also increasing its offering of two-week loans starting tomorrow, to at least $45 billion from at least $20 billion.
The moves “are intended to ensure that the supply of reserves remains ample and to mitigate the risk of money market pressures,” the New York Fed said in a statement.
“They should help support smooth functioning of funding markets as market participants implement business resiliency plans in response to the coronavirus,” the statement said, though it added that the Fed will “continue to adjust” operations as needed.
The Fed had already been active in the market for short-lived loans between banks and financial institutions — called the repurchase or “repo” market — for months, starting after rates in that obscure but important corner of the financial system’s plumbing spiked back in September. It had recently been shrinking the size of its injections as markets calmed.
But demand at its regular repo operations surged as markets swung, fueling speculation by investors that the Fed might lift the size of its offerings.
Officials have also been buying $60 billion in short-term Treasury bills each month to build up the financial system’s buffer of bank reserves, essentially deposits at the Fed. The goal was to keep cash flowing smoothly so that borrowing costs in money market would stay under control.
“We will ensure that the supply of reserves in the banking system remains ample,” John C. Williams, the New York Fed President, said in a speech last week. “We are monitoring conditions in money markets closely.”
Fed Moves to Keep Credit Flowing and Money Markets Calm Amid Coronavirus Turmoil (Published 2020)
The central bank urged banks to work with their affected customers and moved to keep the financial system functioning smoothly.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Lots of ramifications of this. With this oil price it’s going to bankrupt the fracking industry which is going to need a bailout and don’t think for a moment that the Saudi’s and Russians aren’t aware of it and this is on top of demand destruction due to the beer virus.
And not incidentally we are the world’s reserve currency with is underpinned by the petrol dollar standard negotiated by Kissinger in the early 1970’s. That is on life support at $30 oil.
And not incidentally we are the world’s reserve currency with is underpinned by the petrol dollar standard negotiated by Kissinger in the early 1970’s. That is on life support at $30 oil.
If I've calculated correctly, thefirst breaker will blow at about -1800.
1/4 of a trillion in one night??????????????????????? We're blowin' up....
Current DOW Futures,
finance.yahoo.com
Mini Dow Jones Indus.-$5 Sep 23 (YM=F) Stock Price, News, Quote & History - Yahoo Finance
Find the latest Mini Dow Jones Indus.-$5 Sep 23 (YM=F) stock quote, history, news and other vital information to help you with your stock trading and investing.
finance.yahoo.com
colonel holman
Veteran Member
SA and Russia would dearly love to collapse our domestic oil industry. We conquered their monopoly on the world’s oil. They smell payback, and the greens here are on their side.
20Gauge
TB Fanatic
Sooooooo if you take the long view, it would be a buying opportunity?
- Status