CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Unless many of them had actually died in Wuhan and been disposed of but somebody wanted to keep the official figures low so instead inflated the number of people who had left the city....

Maybe
Given that Wuhan runs 200 to 300 MILLION PEOPLE thru ther yearly. 5 mil is. Well. A piece of cake. Logistics..Logistics....
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Dr G. I want to profusely thank you for your patience ce and self control in your explanation a couple pages back.

Those of us who have enjoyed (oy vey!!!) the 3 stages of A&P with biochemistry microbiology and are enamored with Krebs understood you severe temptation.

"Stress. That sensation felt as one's body does its damndest to prevent you from........of someone in desperate need of if."
 

Kayak

Adrenaline Junkie
Nightwolf mentions that the population numbers for Wuhan keep changing - he said they started at 30 million, then his sources said 15 million, now 11 million,etc.

He also said (and said I could quote him on Timebomb) that "I could get better statistics out of a cat's ass than we are getting out of China" (when it comes to the numbers infected and other information).

He also repeated that getting REAL information (like technical stuff) even off the professional medical sites is very difficult, there just is hardly anything.

Which again is rather suspicious, o say the least (and/or no one yet trusts the results/information enough to publish).

My guess is between fourteen and twenty million, depending on time of year. China doesn't know for sure. They know how many are officially there down to the last person, but the migrant workers who move around without getting proper paperwork? It's a guessing game. Also note, you can only go to a hospital if you're supposed to be there, so anyone there without the right papers is on their own.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I wonder if they are expecting fires to break out when there are not enough people to man things like gas pipeline facilities, electrical plants and the like or do they want "firefighters" who are not actually fighting fires but doing something else?
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
Exactly!

Somewhere in this thread - at the beginning - it was explained that many of the residents of Wuhan had originally come from small towns - rural settings - and were forced to live in the city because of jobs. The Chinese New Year is like Christmas or Thanksgiving in the US - people go home for the holidays. They go back to their small towns - businesses are shut down for a week for the celebration. So, I can see many people leaving town in preparation for the holidays - their exodus having nothing to do with the coronavirus, just a happenstance of timing.
 

Burrito

Veteran Member
I wonder if they are expecting fires to break out when there are not enough people to man things like gas pipeline facilities, electrical plants and the like or do they want "firefighters" who are not actually fighting fires but doing something else?
We are wondering what their role will be also....
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Commodity Prices Slump on Coronavirus Fears; Traders worry the virus will erode demand for crude oil and base metals in China

Monday, January 27, 2020, 9:33 AM ET
By David Hodari and Joe Wallace
Wall Street Journal

Crude-oil and copper prices slumped Monday amid fears the spread of the coronavirus could erode demand in China, the world's largest consumer of industrial commodities.

Brent crude futures, the global oil benchmark, dropped 2.5% to $58.38 a barrel, a three-month low. Three-month copper futures fell 2.3% on the London Metal Exchange to $5,785 a metric ton, their lowest price since October 23.

Oil's sharp drop was "100% down to the coronavirus," said Edward Marshall, a commodities trader at Global Risk Management. "I think we're close to peak hysteria, so yes the move is justified. We're in full panic mode."


Chinese Premier Li Keqiang arrived in Wuhan on Monday to inspect and direct the government's response to the outbreak, the government said. The virus has infected more than 2,700 people and killed at least 80, the vast majority in Hubei province, of which Wuhan is the capital.

On Monday, Beijing extended the annual Lunar New Year holiday by two days to February 2. The longer New Year holiday will stretch out a period in which Chinese imports of natural resources typically decline. It could also disrupt industrial activity and prompt Chinese processors to run down existing stockpiles of crude oil and base metals, instead of buying new material.

"We need to make sure human lives are saved and this doesn't continue, but obviously in the longer term the impact on commodities markets could be substantial," said Geordie Wilkes, head of research at brokerage Sucden Financial . "Workers could not be able to go back to work. In terms of refiners and smelters in China, that could reduce operating rates."

China imports more oil than any other nation in the world and consumes around 50% of the world's copper.

The threat of extended quarantines for regions holding millions of Chinese citizens—particularly at a time of year when millions travel for the New Year holiday—is causing more stress for investors than the 2002 outbreak of the SARS virus, Global Risk Management's Mr. Marshall said.

"Using SARS as a template underestimates the growth of the middle class in China with more flights being canceled each day. This could have a large and longer-lasting effect," he said.

While the latest coronavirus appears less virulent than the severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) that hit China in 2002, it may have a larger impact on the Chinese economy, analysts say.

Based on the demand impact of SARS into 2020, Goldman Sachs last week forecast a drop in daily oil demand of 260,000 barrels, including a 170,000 barrel-a-day loss of jet-fuel demand.

Saudi Arabia's Energy Minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman attempted to reassure oil investors on Monday, referring in a statement to the market's "extreme pessimism" and the coronavirus's "very limited impact on global oil demand." He added that the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries and its allies have the capability and flexibility to stabilize the market if needed.

It will be several weeks before investors get a clear picture of whether coronavirus is affecting the supply and demand of commodities in China because of an absence of high-frequency data during the New Year holiday, said Nicholas Snowdon, a metals analyst at Deutsche Bank. "For the holiday period that kind of data flow dries up."

Write to David Hodari at David.Hodari@dowjones.com and Joe Wallace at Joe.Wallace@wsj.com

Commodity Prices Slump on Coronavirus Fears
 

bcingu

Senior Member
China Closes Foxconn, Johnson & Johnson, And Samsung Factories Amid Virus Outbreak
Profile picture for user Tyler Durden
by Tyler Durden
Mon, 01/27/2020 - 09:29
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As the numbers of infected and dead soar exponentially, China has been forced to lock down cities and shutdown factories for the next several weeks. The outbreak of the coronavirus will likely damage first-quarter economic figures for the country, reported the Financial Times.
As of Monday, China's coronavirus outbreak has so far infected about 3,000 people, where the death toll has climbed to 80 - giving the virus a roughly 5% mortality rate.


China has ordered several manufacturing hubs and other centers of the industry to remain closed for the next one to two weeks.



One of those manufacturing hubs is Suzhou, a city west of Shanghai has told millions of workers not to return for at least one week. The industrial region is home to the world's largest factories, including iPhone contractor Foxconn, Johnson & Johnson, and Samsung Electronics.



The virus outbreak is occurring as an industrial slowdown has sparked one of the slowest growth rates in nearly three decades. This will be a significant challenge for President Xi Jinping amid fears of a hard landing.

Julian Evans-Pritchard, a senior China economist at Capital Economics, has suggested that "coronavirus makes a pronounced slowdown even more likely and if the disease is not brought under control quickly, then even our downbeat forecasts may turn out to be too high."

Michael Pettis, a finance professor at Peking University and senior fellow at Carnegie-Tsinghua Center, said the economic impact depends on how coronavirus spreads throughout China.

Pettis said consumption is now under pressure as "people are not going out to restaurants and bars."

A much larger problem in China is the shutdown of major parts of its economy, and those impacts will soon be felt globally. China is the growth engine for many economies of the world -- this is a shock that could tilt the world into a prolonged slowdown.

We noted last week that the World Economic Forum (WEF) President Borge Brende warned that the world is "faced with a synchronized slowdown in the global economy. And we're also faced with a situation where the ammunition that we have to fight a potential global recession is more limited."

Brende suggested the global economy could be entering a period of vulnerability where external shocks could trigger a global recession. The shutdown of major industrial hubs in China and collapsing consumption by Chinese consumers could certainly be a shock that will shortly impact the global economy.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Someone with expertise in the field may explain better.

Is the stock market down due to virus fears, or the expectant Fed report due out......soon?
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Nightwolf mentions that the population numbers for Wuhan keep changing - he said they started at 30 million, then his sources said 15 million, now 11 million,etc.

He also said (and said I could quote him on Timebomb) that "I could get better statistics out of a cat's ass than we are getting out of China" (when it comes to the numbers infected and other information).

He also repeated that getting REAL information (like technical stuff) even off the professional medical sites is very difficult, there just is hardly anything.

Which again is rather suspicious, o say the least (and/or no one yet trusts the results/information enough to publish).
I can help you here.

If the Chinese number is 1, the really number will be between 10 and 19
If the number causes the Chinese to lose face, 1 will be between 50-999
If the number needs to be good 1 will be 1,000.

That should solve all of your issues....... lol
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
I wonder if they are expecting fires to break out when there are not enough people to man things like gas pipeline facilities, electrical plants and the like or do they want "firefighters" who are not actually fighting fires but doing something else?

If you see firefighters staffing some facility in an emergency, that feels helpful and official, and less threatening than soldiers. They aren't going to hand out guns to just anyone, to have a bunch of cops staffing facilities, but they can throw a firefighter uniform on a civilian pretty quick.

I'm guessing this is for body disposal. Boots on the ground say 90,000 bodies. Current infections of 200,000 (estimate from that UK doc) says they've got 30,000 more coming. Doubling every week says they've got much more impressive numbers on the way.
 

TxGal

Day by day
Thank you I didn't know that. On a side note, I had a family member in MD Anderson and she had viral pneumonia. The doctor spoke to me in the hall and told me that they had nothing to treat Viral pneumonia. He told me to buy echinacea/goldenseal 380MG and give it to my family member twice a day, it will dry out the lungs. He said if you tell anyone I told you that, you're a liar.

We also gave it for years to my Mom who was bedridden in a nursing home, she never got pneumonia. I realize this is something different we are dealing with, but we deal with it as best we can.

Regarding the 5 million flying out of Wuhan. I don't remember where I saw or read it but it was someone that lived in China. They also said that Xi and the royal rulers have relocated to an Island.

Pinkelsteinsmom, would this be the powder form in capsules or liquid? Do you happen to recall the brand?

Many years ago I took echinacea faithfully, and I rarely caught anything viral (and I'm the family's 'canary in the coal mine' for flu bugs).

Thanks!
 

Kayak

Adrenaline Junkie
If you see firefighters staffing some facility in an emergency, that feels helpful and official, and less threatening than soldiers. They aren't going to hand out guns to just anyone, to have a bunch of cops staffing facilities, but they can throw a firefighter uniform on a civilian pretty quick.

I'm guessing this is for body disposal. Boots on the ground say 90,000 bodies. Current infections of 200,000 (estimate from that UK doc) says they've got 30,000 more coming. Doubling every week says they've got much more impressive numbers on the way.

Police officers in China don't carry guns. Only the military is allowed them.

Police officers are for taking reports, mostly. Not so much law enforcement as recording instances of illegal activity, and writing citations. They don't respond to heavy-duty crime. If a bank is robbed, the military would handle that.
 

pinkelsteinsmom

Veteran Member
China is lying of course, the numbers would create a world panic, they can't have that, it might hurt the economy. No sir, the economy and maintaining the iron grip of control over that nation as well as ours is paramount here. They are already trying to play it down and hope you buy it.

Go on, go to work, go to Costco shoulder to shoulder with asians here in Shitattle, you're O.K. While the communist Chinese will and are lying through their teeth, so is the communist fed gov to we the people. Has there been one report of a death here in fusa of those confirmed? The answer is no. We will go down the same road as the crying nurse in china and the plebes who are still oblivious to this threat, will take us all down. One thing is for sure after reading every page, in 30 days no government will be able to lie there way out of this.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Police officers in China don't carry guns. Only the military is allowed them.

Police officers are for taking reports, mostly. Not so much law enforcement as recording instances of illegal activity, and writing citations. They don't respond to heavy-duty crime. If a bank is robbed, the military would handle that.

Ok, thanks.
 

Cascadians

Leska Emerald Adams
Disposal of bodies is definitely going to become a pressing issue. All the way back in 1998 we were discussing this in detail. Unfortunately I can't remember all the details. Would be helpful to live a few blocks from a large empty field with a big excavator. Got shovels?

Do you know how many items are made in China or some of their parts are made in China?

DISRUPTION of a magnitude we've never seen is now underway.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Dow Drops 400 Points on Virus Fears; Oil, Europe equities slump as new infections are detected outside China

Monday, January 27, 2020, 9:56 AM ET
By Anna Hirtenstein
Wall Street Journal

Stocks and crude oil tumbled Monday on concerns about China's viral outbreak , as the detection of infected patients in the U.S., Australia and France led to escalating concerns about its containment and potential economic impact.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 424 points, or 1.5%, and the S&P 500 dropped 1.4%. The technology-heavy Nasdaq Composite lost 1.8%. All three indexes were poised for their worst day since October
.

The selloff was broad-based. Ten of 11 sectors in the S&P 500 slumped, as did 28 of the 30 Dow components. Utilities stocks, often considered a safety play because of their steady dividend yields, were the group to rise on the day.

Uncertainty surrounding the virus jolted a market that had been unusually calm: The S&P 500 hasn't closed up or down 1% in a single trading session since mid-October, one of its longest such streaks since 1969.

The coronavirus has infected more than 2,700 people and killed at least 80, mostly in China's Hubei province, with public-health officials warning that it is growing more contagious. The number of U.S. cases has risen to five and the government is working to evacuate American citizens from the epicenter.

"It's unclear how far it could have potentially spread,'' said Georgina Taylor, a multiasset fund manager at Invesco. "If it turns into a global health issue, that's really the next piece of information that would worry us.''

As investors bid down stocks, they headed into haven assets such as government bonds and gold. The benchmark 10-year Treasury yield fell to 1.615%, on pace for its lowest closing level since October.

U.S. stocks are poised for swings as the Cboe Volatility Index, or VIX, which measures expected moves in the S&P 500 index, has climbed to its highest level since the start of this year.

In addition to developments around the virus, investors will be watching a big week of earnings reports from U.S. companies. With about 17% of S&P 500 companies having reported for the fourth quarter, 70% have beat analysts' earnings expectations, according to FactSet. Still, analysts are expecting earnings for the S&P 500 as a whole to drop 1.9% from a year earlier. They expect earnings growth to pick up in the first quarter of 2020.

Investors also will be keeping an eye on the Federal Reserve 's meeting Wednesday, though the central bank is expected to hold its benchmark rate steady.

Overseas, Stoxx Europe 600 retreated 2%, led by declines in the U.K. and France. Markets in China, Hong Kong and South Korea were closed Monday for the public holiday. Japan's Nikkei 225 index closed down 2%.

Hotel, cruise and airline stocks fell on concerns that the coronavirus could affect global travel. The Chinese government has imposed restrictions on movement in Hubei province, and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a warning to avoid nonessential travel to this part of China.

Wynn Resorts lost 6.1%, due to its large presence in gambling hot spot Macau. Las Vegas Sands was down 6.4%. Marriott International fell 2.9%.

Airlines were also big losers. United Airlines Holdings dropped 5%, and American Airlines fell 6.6%. Delta Air Lines lost 3.9%.

Miners also slumped as investors feared that the virus outbreak could erode China's demand for industrial commodities. Freeport-McMoRan fell 6.6%.

Oil prices slumped by the most in over four months as the virus outbreak threatens to damp economic growth in China, the world's biggest energy consumer. Brent crude, the global benchmark, declined 3.4% before recovering slightly to trade at $58.51 a barrel.

Karen Langley contributed to this article.

Write to Anna Hirtenstein at anna.hirtenstein@wsj.com

Dow Drops 400 Points on Virus Fears
 

pinkelsteinsmom

Veteran Member
Pinkelsteinsmom, would this be the powder form in capsules or liquid? Do you happen to recall the brand?

Many years ago I took echinacea faithfully, and I rarely caught anything viral (and I'm the family's 'canary in the coal mine' for flu bugs).

Thanks!

It is the standard capsules of the product sold at super supplemnts or any good health food store. They use to say it stopped a cold or flu, it dosen't. What it does do is stop fluid from accumulating in your lungs when you do have the flu. Of course this virus in China may be so strong and put such a fluid strain on the lungs it will not help. It is worth a try though, espeacially before you acquire the virus I would thinnk.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Dr. Peter Salama of WHO suddenly died from a heart attack! He led UNICEF's response to Ebola. He had input into Coronavirus also. I see a possibility that if you see more scientists, more microbiologists, more virologists,etc. dying suddenly
the cover up has started.
Eliminate those who can expose your nefarious works

Ghost and I discussed this yesterday. Watch what they do.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Dr Steven Hatfill, virologist expert, coming up
shortly in interview on Stephen K. Bannon...

- Shane
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Chinese trains are ticketed like the Titanic, and the cheapest tickets means people are crammed onto a single car like you wouldn't believe. The first two classes of high-speed tickets, they sell the seats first and then the standing room. Regular (not high-speed) trains have a class where everyone is standing, packed in tight.

View attachment 180609

All it will take is one train wreck...
 
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