Snettrecker
Contributing Member
I talked with a civilian contractor (medic) that is being begged to go to Ukraine. He isn't gonna go, but they are paying 31000/month. He knows guys that are going. Including some mutual acquaintances.
ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread
- Thread starter danielboon
- Start date
Russia may try for westward push for Dnieper but trying and succeeding are 2 entirely different things.Post 29, 128 seals the ukies doom and confirms the ruskies are massing for the final flush to the river of the TRAPPED AND STARVING UKIES in the Donas/Lugash pocket. Maripol, the ukie high command STILL shows the azov rats as holding maripol. Oh give it up.
The east is lost to zippy. In a year or so they will find the rat chewed bones in the depths of the steel mill. The bulge farther west looks to be surrounded on 3 sides and ready to be pushed into the dniepper river. The WHOLE russian line will flow WEST and all the ukie counter offensive types know on the russian border will be straffed to pieces
Zippy is really no military leader and has now positionrd his best troops for an HISTORIC defeat. Belarus will push south and zippy is road kill.
I believe Russia will try to consolidate their east and southern coast position land grab and try to find a way to declare the special operation over and regroup.
My original expectation is they would be at Dneiper by now or have effectively decapitated Ukrainian government and all but took over the gubmint with a Kremlin puppet, pr at the least have taken the eastern 1/2 of Ukraine. At this point I can’t see Russia continuing the offensive to capture the entire eastern Ukraine Russia doesn’t have the available manpower that would be needed to hold that much territory. The key now is does Ukraine maintain any access to the sea.
Russia can likely accept the breakaway territories and the land bridge to Crimea as well as calling the destruction of Azov group their ‘de-nazification’ as a propaganda victory but the operation from a Russian perspective looks incredibly mixed with the losses piling up the longer this continues.
I really don’t see the Belarus engagement. Sounds like wishful thinking from a rah rah Putin side. Belarus is trying to balance on a knife’s edge and I am not sure Belarus troops are any more looking forward to killing Ukrainian civilians let alone soldiers and you don’t as a military leader want to give an order that the soldiers say no.
The truth is Nato and Russia really don’t want to have Nato enter the fray. That limits somewhat the options from the Russian side. The proxy war is better for Russia than hitting a tripwire that starts direct Nato involvement.
And yes we all know about the nukes but for Russia introducing of any kind is a lose/lose option. Some who were around for the cold war and are reliving the tactical nuke’s as the Russia armor shot the gap need to remember this is not the same conflict.
Unfortunately the creeps in MI-6 and CIA and WEF who seem to love chaos, deaths, and war are pushing hard to keep it going.
WTSR
Veteran Member
It appears obvious that due to lack of funding by European Nato partners they are not ready for combat. They seem to lack everything it, and have even less now. So probably another reason why Russia went in now. They would have to rely on the US to fight the battle for them, and if that happens would China sit back would be the question? Ultimately Ukraine will be become a wasteland then, and world hunger will be for certain, if the war continues for any length of time.
Right now the Supply Chain problems, Energy Shortages, and Food shortages will help work in Russia's favor as they have large surpluses in energy and food, in the longer term. How much longer will the USA be able to sustain 6 dollar diesel and 5 dollar gas?
Squid, I think you've got that exactly right - fighting to the last Ukrainian. I keep wondering when Bai-Densky is going to have to resign or get 25'd, and if the military will take away the war from the warmongering State Department. In a conversation with a friend, we gave it 'til the end of June-ish or sometime early July. It depends on how well the baby murderers are marshaled together to salvage the midterms for the demonrats.
And you're also correct about Russia just securing the eastern side and the southern coast. The battles for Mykolayiv and Odessa are going to be bloody humdingers, especially with the bridges already being blown by the Ukrainians across the Bug River. There's so many mines now on those beaches that there won't be much beach time for anyone for a few years, probably, until they get cleaned up. But the Russians learned from Mariupol that there was no benefit to going gently and instead went full Russkie. After the forces in the Donbass cauldron are isolated and defeated, it appears to me that a logical southern flanking route looks to be the Dnipro/Zaporizhzhya corridor. I don't know the topography or the rivers there so that's an uneducated opinion on my part.
Russia does not want anything in the central or western part of Ukraine, I believe. The silly predictions of them wanting to go all the way to the Baltics just doesn't work - for me, anyway.
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Cacheman
Ultra MAGA!
Ever seen the 1960's movie "The Seven Days Of May"?
Nowski
Let's Go Brandon!
Without doubt, one of the most salient posts in this entire thread.
So many are still mired in the past, the ole Soviet Union Russia days.
Those days are long gone.
There are more Bolsheviks in the ZUSA today, than in the new Russia.
There are more Christians in the new Russia today, than in the ZUSA,
and there are more capitalists in the new Russia today, than in
the ZUSA.
An entire generation of Russians, has never known Communism.
The new Russia simply wants to be left alone, but that is not today.
Russia this, and Russia that, on and on and on.
The problems, including this Russia-Ukraine war, are the fault
of Washington DC, and the neocons, libcons, warmongers, etc.,
that we were warned about, decades ago.
You want peace, deal with Washington DC, if you want peace.
Prayers now for both the Russian and Ukrainian peoples,
that they can find a way forward, from this unneeded war.
Please be safe everyone.
Regards to all.
Nowski
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
For your entertainment and education here is the film I believe. Gotta love archive .org.
Seven Days in May : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
1h54m4s runtime
Publication date 1964
Seven Days in May is a 1964 American political thriller film about a military-political cabal's planned takeover of the United States government in reaction to the president's negotiation of a disarmament treaty with the Soviet Union.
Directed by John Frankenheimer
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Ya, that's rough.
And likely 1/1000th of as bad as it actually is.
"War is Hell"
- The Bastard Sherman
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Amen to that. Unnecessary bloodletting from the start of this entire mess.
'No, can't say as I have. The plot of a movie made in the 60s seems quite predictable, though. Instead of the military, though, it appears to me that the main warmongers of this age (besides the bored-to-tears press watching the country self-destruct) are the newly-converted neos inside the State Department. I still am puzzled by this but shouldn't be after watching John Bolton, etc. for the past several years. I just always thought he was an anomaly.
Good human interest story regarding an interview of an Azovstal soldier who'd surrendered while the reporter was accompanied by a Donetsk soldier. This exchange really just reinforces the point that this is a Slavic family feud and nobody else's business.
Ukraine War Day #85: Up Close Look At Azovstal Surrender, I Mean Evacuation
Ukraine War Day #85: Up Close Look At Azovstal Surrender, I Mean Evacuation
Posted on May 19, 2022 by yalensis
Dear Readers:
I swore I was not going to do a piece on Azovstal — complete distraction from the real news taking place at the front, etc. But after reading this piece by Russian war correspondent Dmitry Steshin, I figured, okay, just this once. Because I am a sucker for a human interest story.
For those who have not been following this subplot within the main story arc, here is the Executive Summary:
After hiding, for weeks, like rats in their underground bunker; and after swearing on the Norse Gods pantheon and the Ghost of Adolph Hitler, that they will die rather than surrender, our Neo-Naughty “heroic defenders” decided to call it quits.
Initially there was just supposed to be “evacuation” of the severely wounded. Russian/DPR side promised to take these guys to the hospital, where they would be provided with medical treatment, probably physical therapy, and psychological counseling, to help them get over their PTSD. Then, once word got out that this was a thing, the process started ballooning and getting out of hand. Now even healthy, ambulatory Ukrainian soldiers decided they wanted to take the deal as well.
Next thing you know there were up to something like 700 guys or even more, wanting to surrender; and latest estimates say maybe even as many as a thousand. A fleet of buses and luxury coaches had to be chartered to take everybody, because Russians are nicer people than the Japanese in WWII, who just made prisoners walk to their own doom. Now they can take a bus.
Westie media tried to spin a defeat into a victory.
But the really hilarious thing is that, at least in the first couple of days, before they got mocked to death on youtube and Twitter, Westie media all decided to spin this mass surrender as an “evacuation“. Which made it sound like the Ukrainian soldiers and neo-Naughties were calling the shots and rescuing their own. As usual, CNN was the most fakey of all the fake news, with deceitful headlines such as “They will be taken to the Ukrainian town of Novoazovsk…” conveniently omitting the fact that Novoazovsk is controlled by Donetsk Peoples Republic, not Ukraine. And much other deceitful headlines and copy. relying on the ignorance of their clickers.
“I laughed my Azov,” wrote one pro-Russian commenter to the CNN nonsense, thus birthing the meme du jour.
First Come The Sappers
Early morning, May 16. Reporter Steshin gets the scoop of a lifetime when he is allowed to hang out with the Russian/DPR soldiers at Azovstal, while they wait apprehensively for the thing to go down. The Ukrainians are set to emerge from the blocked up entrance to an old railroad tunnel connecting to the steel plant. Interminable minutes go by. Then: A white flag pokes out from one of the tunnels. A group of men in camouflage emerge. Accompanying them is a young boy, he looks to be around 15 or 16, his name is Kolya. He says he has been living inside the steel plant for the past month, he found himself a storage bunker, and that became his home.
This first group, including Kolya, is there to negotiate the terms of surrender for the others. Despite his youth, Kolya is clearly connected with the Nationalists and will most likely be detained with the others. One can only hope, for his mother’s sake, that she raised him properly, in other words, no tattoos! A single tattoo on the body can make the difference between status of regular POW and accused war criminal. Especially if it’s, like, a big swastika or sun symbol.
Four hours go by, now it’s around 13:00 hours. The word goes out: “They are coming out. Don’t open fire.” And then a group of Ukrainian sappers emerges. With help from the Russian soldiers, they get to work clearing the debris from the access road. Then, showing nerves of steel the sappers calmly clip the wires on the bombs, which are laid out everywhere and hidden in the debris. The entire area is de-mined, quickly and efficiently.
Step #1: Need to clear the debris blocking the entrance and the access road.
Two hours pass, now it’s 15:00 hours, and the Russians are waiting for the first group of seriously wounded to be brought out.
As the Azovites emerged from their cavern, they looked like moles who had been underground too long, blinking at the sun. Before them, even in this devastated place, spreads lush greenery, as frogs burble happily in the nearby river. Across the street is the restaurant Sarmat, which has been closed since the beginning of the war. One of the Azovites peers at the restaurant wistfully and sighs, “How I could eat some shashlyk…” Turns out that these guys are really hungry. Turns out they had plenty of water, but very little food. This is an important detail because everybody on the internet keeps repeating over and over that the “defenders” had no water. Actually, they had unlimited supplies of water. We’ll talk about this later.
Never Let Them Take Your Smile
At this point we are halfway down in Steshin’s report, and if you scroll down, there is a short video (just under 3 minutes) which illustrates some of this story. You can distinguish the Russian from the Ukrainian soldiers in that the former wear white stickers on their arms and legs; and the latter have blue or green stickers. Steshin shows the sappers doing their thing.
Nazi sapper defuses a bomb. He wears the chevron of the SS Galichina on his armband. The writing on the butt of his rifle reads, in English, “Never let them take your smile.”
Steshin tries to strike up a conversation with some of the Azovites. They look straight ahead and won’t make eye contact with him. He notes that their gear is and kit is top of the line. They carry the same rifle as their Russian counterparts, the Kalashnikov.
The reporter was expecting dirty and frightened men, but this is not what he sees. They are clean, neat, and do not appear to be scared. More like apprehensive. The mystery of their cleanliness is solved when one of them dishes the secret: All along, they had plenty of water. They call it “technical” water, from endless supplies in the pipes. Technically it’s not supposed to be drinking water, but they would use it to make tea. And they would wash and stay clean. Given that, one wonders why they decided to surrender, but the secret is that they ran out of food a week ago. It was hunger, not thirst, which drove them out of their hole.
Steshin is accompanied by a DPR soldier named Vlad, who hails from Poltava. They have been inseparable for the past 3 months on the road. Vlad was filled with hatred against these Ukrainian Nazis, and wanted revenge. But now something is happening to him: At the sight of the captives, his hatred and anger start to melt away, and he becomes calmer. Steshin philosophizes about the “Russian soul”, and how this effect works: At the sight of a conquered enemy, the Russian rage wilts, then compassion becomes more dominant within the psyche. To be sure, these Nazis will be put on trial for their crimes. But it is not the Russian way to carry out battlefield justice.
Azov Steel, or what is left of it, now belongs to the DPR!
S
teshin asks one of the Ukrainians: “How many still in there?” The Ukrainian, whose name is Dmytro, gets cagey: “Still quite a few, you’d be surprised…” Steshin offers the guy a chance to speak into the camera and let his loved ones know that he is still alive; but Dmytro politely declines. Not one of the captives wants to give an interview, so Steshin has to respect their choice.
An 18-year old Azovite named Nazar is the only person in the whole group of captives who speaks in pure Ukrainian dialect. He is from Lvov. He overhears Steshin chatting with Vlad and philosophizing, how this all came about. Nazar butts into the conversation and says, in Ukrainian dialect: “People were pitted against people.”
Ukrainian Dmytro objects to this: He says he is from Mariupol, and he says that people were getting used to the new life (under Maidan rules). Vlad objects angrily: “I am from Poltava, I had to leave my home in 2014, because I understood that it was impossible to live under the new rules. We all spoke Russian, and they started to forbid the Russian language, they passed a lot of laws…”
Dmytro exhales: “Yeah…” But then quickly collects himself and dives into the political debate: “All the same, these were our internal, Ukrainian affairs. Why did Russia have to stick its nose in?”
Vlad retorts angrily: “You wanted them to just kill us all, with nobody intervening? You have Europe and the U.S. behind you, so we have Russia behind us. Does that seem normal to you? Is it normal to waste your youth fighting in a war?”
Dmytro: “I have also been fighting since 2014. I also wasted my youth in this.”
Vlad [getting curious]: “Really? Whereabouts were you fighting?”
Steshin leaves these two soldiers to their reminiscing, noting that they kept up their conversation for at least an hour.
During that hour the de-mining process continued, there were more mines than you could count. But eventually the route was clear, and it was time to start bringing out the wounded. They brought the first group out on stretchers, and then headed back in for more. Some of the guys on stretchers were in really bad shape: They would not have lasted even one more day.
An Azov officer appears. He reports to the Russian group that the fighting component of the Regiment are still within the factory, and just waiting to see how everything goes on this first day of the process. The soldiers have internet connection so they are avidly following social media and watching everything that goes on. One conclusion they are all reaching is this: The Kiev regime has no use for them any more.
The battle for Mariupol is over!
What Happens Next?
Steshin and Vlad collect their gear and leave the scene. Vlad reveals, surprisingly, “You know. when this war is over, I would be happy to go out with Dmytro and have a drink with him.”
“You forgive them?”
“No. But I like him. We had a lot of things to talk about.”
“What about him do you like?”
“Well, he was the only one of them who didn’t pretend to be a cook. He was honest with me. He is a worthy adversary.”
“But we defeated them.”
“True. But it was a really tough job.”
Ukraine War Day #85: Up Close Look At Azovstal Surrender, I Mean Evacuation
Ukraine War Day #85: Up Close Look At Azovstal Surrender, I Mean Evacuation
Posted on May 19, 2022 by yalensis
Dear Readers:
I swore I was not going to do a piece on Azovstal — complete distraction from the real news taking place at the front, etc. But after reading this piece by Russian war correspondent Dmitry Steshin, I figured, okay, just this once. Because I am a sucker for a human interest story.
For those who have not been following this subplot within the main story arc, here is the Executive Summary:
After hiding, for weeks, like rats in their underground bunker; and after swearing on the Norse Gods pantheon and the Ghost of Adolph Hitler, that they will die rather than surrender, our Neo-Naughty “heroic defenders” decided to call it quits.
Initially there was just supposed to be “evacuation” of the severely wounded. Russian/DPR side promised to take these guys to the hospital, where they would be provided with medical treatment, probably physical therapy, and psychological counseling, to help them get over their PTSD. Then, once word got out that this was a thing, the process started ballooning and getting out of hand. Now even healthy, ambulatory Ukrainian soldiers decided they wanted to take the deal as well.
Next thing you know there were up to something like 700 guys or even more, wanting to surrender; and latest estimates say maybe even as many as a thousand. A fleet of buses and luxury coaches had to be chartered to take everybody, because Russians are nicer people than the Japanese in WWII, who just made prisoners walk to their own doom. Now they can take a bus.
Westie media tried to spin a defeat into a victory.But the really hilarious thing is that, at least in the first couple of days, before they got mocked to death on youtube and Twitter, Westie media all decided to spin this mass surrender as an “evacuation“. Which made it sound like the Ukrainian soldiers and neo-Naughties were calling the shots and rescuing their own. As usual, CNN was the most fakey of all the fake news, with deceitful headlines such as “They will be taken to the Ukrainian town of Novoazovsk…” conveniently omitting the fact that Novoazovsk is controlled by Donetsk Peoples Republic, not Ukraine. And much other deceitful headlines and copy. relying on the ignorance of their clickers.
“I laughed my Azov,” wrote one pro-Russian commenter to the CNN nonsense, thus birthing the meme du jour.
First Come The Sappers
Early morning, May 16. Reporter Steshin gets the scoop of a lifetime when he is allowed to hang out with the Russian/DPR soldiers at Azovstal, while they wait apprehensively for the thing to go down. The Ukrainians are set to emerge from the blocked up entrance to an old railroad tunnel connecting to the steel plant. Interminable minutes go by. Then: A white flag pokes out from one of the tunnels. A group of men in camouflage emerge. Accompanying them is a young boy, he looks to be around 15 or 16, his name is Kolya. He says he has been living inside the steel plant for the past month, he found himself a storage bunker, and that became his home.
This first group, including Kolya, is there to negotiate the terms of surrender for the others. Despite his youth, Kolya is clearly connected with the Nationalists and will most likely be detained with the others. One can only hope, for his mother’s sake, that she raised him properly, in other words, no tattoos! A single tattoo on the body can make the difference between status of regular POW and accused war criminal. Especially if it’s, like, a big swastika or sun symbol.
Four hours go by, now it’s around 13:00 hours. The word goes out: “They are coming out. Don’t open fire.” And then a group of Ukrainian sappers emerges. With help from the Russian soldiers, they get to work clearing the debris from the access road. Then, showing nerves of steel the sappers calmly clip the wires on the bombs, which are laid out everywhere and hidden in the debris. The entire area is de-mined, quickly and efficiently.
Step #1: Need to clear the debris blocking the entrance and the access road.Two hours pass, now it’s 15:00 hours, and the Russians are waiting for the first group of seriously wounded to be brought out.
As the Azovites emerged from their cavern, they looked like moles who had been underground too long, blinking at the sun. Before them, even in this devastated place, spreads lush greenery, as frogs burble happily in the nearby river. Across the street is the restaurant Sarmat, which has been closed since the beginning of the war. One of the Azovites peers at the restaurant wistfully and sighs, “How I could eat some shashlyk…” Turns out that these guys are really hungry. Turns out they had plenty of water, but very little food. This is an important detail because everybody on the internet keeps repeating over and over that the “defenders” had no water. Actually, they had unlimited supplies of water. We’ll talk about this later.
Never Let Them Take Your Smile
At this point we are halfway down in Steshin’s report, and if you scroll down, there is a short video (just under 3 minutes) which illustrates some of this story. You can distinguish the Russian from the Ukrainian soldiers in that the former wear white stickers on their arms and legs; and the latter have blue or green stickers. Steshin shows the sappers doing their thing.
Nazi sapper defuses a bomb. He wears the chevron of the SS Galichina on his armband. The writing on the butt of his rifle reads, in English, “Never let them take your smile.”Steshin tries to strike up a conversation with some of the Azovites. They look straight ahead and won’t make eye contact with him. He notes that their gear is and kit is top of the line. They carry the same rifle as their Russian counterparts, the Kalashnikov.
The reporter was expecting dirty and frightened men, but this is not what he sees. They are clean, neat, and do not appear to be scared. More like apprehensive. The mystery of their cleanliness is solved when one of them dishes the secret: All along, they had plenty of water. They call it “technical” water, from endless supplies in the pipes. Technically it’s not supposed to be drinking water, but they would use it to make tea. And they would wash and stay clean. Given that, one wonders why they decided to surrender, but the secret is that they ran out of food a week ago. It was hunger, not thirst, which drove them out of their hole.
Steshin is accompanied by a DPR soldier named Vlad, who hails from Poltava. They have been inseparable for the past 3 months on the road. Vlad was filled with hatred against these Ukrainian Nazis, and wanted revenge. But now something is happening to him: At the sight of the captives, his hatred and anger start to melt away, and he becomes calmer. Steshin philosophizes about the “Russian soul”, and how this effect works: At the sight of a conquered enemy, the Russian rage wilts, then compassion becomes more dominant within the psyche. To be sure, these Nazis will be put on trial for their crimes. But it is not the Russian way to carry out battlefield justice.
Azov Steel, or what is left of it, now belongs to the DPR!S
teshin asks one of the Ukrainians: “How many still in there?” The Ukrainian, whose name is Dmytro, gets cagey: “Still quite a few, you’d be surprised…” Steshin offers the guy a chance to speak into the camera and let his loved ones know that he is still alive; but Dmytro politely declines. Not one of the captives wants to give an interview, so Steshin has to respect their choice.
An 18-year old Azovite named Nazar is the only person in the whole group of captives who speaks in pure Ukrainian dialect. He is from Lvov. He overhears Steshin chatting with Vlad and philosophizing, how this all came about. Nazar butts into the conversation and says, in Ukrainian dialect: “People were pitted against people.”
Ukrainian Dmytro objects to this: He says he is from Mariupol, and he says that people were getting used to the new life (under Maidan rules). Vlad objects angrily: “I am from Poltava, I had to leave my home in 2014, because I understood that it was impossible to live under the new rules. We all spoke Russian, and they started to forbid the Russian language, they passed a lot of laws…”
Dmytro exhales: “Yeah…” But then quickly collects himself and dives into the political debate: “All the same, these were our internal, Ukrainian affairs. Why did Russia have to stick its nose in?”
Vlad retorts angrily: “You wanted them to just kill us all, with nobody intervening? You have Europe and the U.S. behind you, so we have Russia behind us. Does that seem normal to you? Is it normal to waste your youth fighting in a war?”
Dmytro: “I have also been fighting since 2014. I also wasted my youth in this.”
Vlad [getting curious]: “Really? Whereabouts were you fighting?”
Steshin leaves these two soldiers to their reminiscing, noting that they kept up their conversation for at least an hour.
During that hour the de-mining process continued, there were more mines than you could count. But eventually the route was clear, and it was time to start bringing out the wounded. They brought the first group out on stretchers, and then headed back in for more. Some of the guys on stretchers were in really bad shape: They would not have lasted even one more day.
An Azov officer appears. He reports to the Russian group that the fighting component of the Regiment are still within the factory, and just waiting to see how everything goes on this first day of the process. The soldiers have internet connection so they are avidly following social media and watching everything that goes on. One conclusion they are all reaching is this: The Kiev regime has no use for them any more.
The battle for Mariupol is over!
What Happens Next?
Steshin and Vlad collect their gear and leave the scene. Vlad reveals, surprisingly, “You know. when this war is over, I would be happy to go out with Dmytro and have a drink with him.”
“You forgive them?”
“No. But I like him. We had a lot of things to talk about.”
“What about him do you like?”
“Well, he was the only one of them who didn’t pretend to be a cook. He was honest with me. He is a worthy adversary.”
“But we defeated them.”
“True. But it was a really tough job.”
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#Bundesheer
Krieg in der Ukraine: Die Erfolgsgeschichte der ukrainischen Artillerie
Premiered 10 hours ago
RT 13:06
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzAl29Gl9MA&ab_channel=%C3%96sterreichsBundesheer
Krieg in der Ukraine: Die Erfolgsgeschichte der ukrainischen Artillerie
Premiered 10 hours ago
RT 13:06
northern watch
TB Fanatic
okie-carbine
Veteran Member
How long is Put-in going to let this go on?
naegling62
Veteran Member
I think he is trying his damnest not to infuriate the Alliance. So far he has managed that much like their operations in Syria.
WTSR
Veteran Member
How is that going to be combat effective immediately? Who is going to be manning those in the interim? (Rhetorical Question)
Obviously it is to interject Americans in to the fight without a Constitutional Declaration of War.
jward
passin' thru
Not exclusively related to this engagement, but is easy to see how the efforts to control, direct, and suppress the exchange of opinions we see here might be hard to distinguish from the techniques and technologies in the article. It's focus is on measuring existing thought, but of course, they're as interested, or more so, in making sure our thoughts are all
Ministry-0'-Truth approved from the get-go.
Special Operators Want AI to Help Discern Public Opinion
New sentiment-analysis tools would improve psyops, SOCOM commander says.
By Patrick Tucker
Technology Editor
May 20, 2022 12:13 PM ET
TAMPA, Florida—U.S. special operators have long understood that military advantage depends on how the public perceives the players. In the next few years, they hope to develop AI tools that can measure those perceptions better than ever—perhaps even well enough to vault U.S. influence operations past the larger efforts of China and Russia. “In the information space, I still don't think that we have all the tools that we need, and we need to…continue to develop that speed,” said Gen. Richard Clark, who leads U.S. Special Operations Command.
“The one thing that we're working on very hard at is just the sentiment analysis capability,” said Clark, who spoke Monday at the NDIA SOFIC conference here. “I think if we can apply big data, along with artificial intelligence and machine learning, I think it will give our people that are working in this space an advantage…I think we've got to continue to look at the authorities that go with that.” meaning the legal authorities.
Clark praised the Ukrainian government’s use of information operations to “bolster morale of the Ukrainian forces to ensure that the truth is getting out about what the Russian forces are doing.”
But Ukraine’s information environment is an “easy” one, he said, “because everybody can see what is happening...How are we going to do this against the near-peer adversaries who may not be as open or the whole world may not be pointing or it's a slow boil where we need to go?” Too often, he added, the U.S. government is reluctant to operate in the information space.
Sentiment analysis isn’t new. Today’s practice derives from public-opinion polling following the Cold War. But the rise of information technology in the 1990s and early 2000s enabled computational sentiment analysis. A seminal 1990 paper showed how crunching large amounts of scanned text to count how frequently words appear with other words can generate a sense whether people are feeling good or bad about a given subject.
The practice has exploded in recent years as the spread of social media has created new and easily structured data sets that reflect public mood. More than 99% of the peer-reviewed papers on the subject have appeared since 2004.
James Smith, the head of acquisition for SOCOM, said special operators “need to understand what the environment is where they're operating. What is the sentiment? As the [commanding general] said, we need to be able to message and counter-message in that environment at a speed and at a scale” that matches the pace of adversaries.”
Various heads of theater special operations command reiterated that message in a later panel.
Rear Adm. Milton Sands, who leads U.S. Special Operations Command Africa, said that the presence of Russian Wagner mercenaries in Africa has made it harder for the United States to operate in Mali.
“That's largely because of information operations,” Sands said. “You see a connection between both what's happening for example in the UN, when, in the UN, the ambassador from Russia is talking about Mali's airspace ‘being violated’—basically a false claim.”
That will likely lead the Malian government to ask Russia for some sort of air defenses, he said.
“So it gets very, very interesting, very complex, and it's very active,” he said. But U.S. troops are working hard as well: “We'll have soldiers tweeting from the field in firefights in order to stay ahead of Al Shabaab.”
Rear Adm. Keith Davids, who leads U.S. Special Operations Command South, said, “I would say that we are getting better, but [are] still a little bit slow as an intergovernmental team” at identifying misinformation and disinformation. “I will tell you Russia is very active,” in disinformation operations in Latin and South America, he said.
A tactical battlefield victory is moot if the public perception of it isn’t good, Davids said. So sentiment analysis will be essential to help special operators assess how well they are doing relative to China and Russia in places like South America.
“I think there's some cutting-edge work being done with the use of sentiment analysis and AI to get at those things,” he said.
One SOCOM official told Defense One on background that money had not yet been allocated to the effort and he expected the program to formally start in 2024.
www.defenseone.com
Ministry-0'-Truth approved from the get-go.
Special Operators Want AI to Help Discern Public Opinion
New sentiment-analysis tools would improve psyops, SOCOM commander says.
By Patrick Tucker
Technology Editor
May 20, 2022 12:13 PM ET
TAMPA, Florida—U.S. special operators have long understood that military advantage depends on how the public perceives the players. In the next few years, they hope to develop AI tools that can measure those perceptions better than ever—perhaps even well enough to vault U.S. influence operations past the larger efforts of China and Russia. “In the information space, I still don't think that we have all the tools that we need, and we need to…continue to develop that speed,” said Gen. Richard Clark, who leads U.S. Special Operations Command.
“The one thing that we're working on very hard at is just the sentiment analysis capability,” said Clark, who spoke Monday at the NDIA SOFIC conference here. “I think if we can apply big data, along with artificial intelligence and machine learning, I think it will give our people that are working in this space an advantage…I think we've got to continue to look at the authorities that go with that.” meaning the legal authorities.
Clark praised the Ukrainian government’s use of information operations to “bolster morale of the Ukrainian forces to ensure that the truth is getting out about what the Russian forces are doing.”
But Ukraine’s information environment is an “easy” one, he said, “because everybody can see what is happening...How are we going to do this against the near-peer adversaries who may not be as open or the whole world may not be pointing or it's a slow boil where we need to go?” Too often, he added, the U.S. government is reluctant to operate in the information space.
Sentiment analysis isn’t new. Today’s practice derives from public-opinion polling following the Cold War. But the rise of information technology in the 1990s and early 2000s enabled computational sentiment analysis. A seminal 1990 paper showed how crunching large amounts of scanned text to count how frequently words appear with other words can generate a sense whether people are feeling good or bad about a given subject.
The practice has exploded in recent years as the spread of social media has created new and easily structured data sets that reflect public mood. More than 99% of the peer-reviewed papers on the subject have appeared since 2004.
James Smith, the head of acquisition for SOCOM, said special operators “need to understand what the environment is where they're operating. What is the sentiment? As the [commanding general] said, we need to be able to message and counter-message in that environment at a speed and at a scale” that matches the pace of adversaries.”
Various heads of theater special operations command reiterated that message in a later panel.
Rear Adm. Milton Sands, who leads U.S. Special Operations Command Africa, said that the presence of Russian Wagner mercenaries in Africa has made it harder for the United States to operate in Mali.
“That's largely because of information operations,” Sands said. “You see a connection between both what's happening for example in the UN, when, in the UN, the ambassador from Russia is talking about Mali's airspace ‘being violated’—basically a false claim.”
That will likely lead the Malian government to ask Russia for some sort of air defenses, he said.
“So it gets very, very interesting, very complex, and it's very active,” he said. But U.S. troops are working hard as well: “We'll have soldiers tweeting from the field in firefights in order to stay ahead of Al Shabaab.”
Rear Adm. Keith Davids, who leads U.S. Special Operations Command South, said, “I would say that we are getting better, but [are] still a little bit slow as an intergovernmental team” at identifying misinformation and disinformation. “I will tell you Russia is very active,” in disinformation operations in Latin and South America, he said.
A tactical battlefield victory is moot if the public perception of it isn’t good, Davids said. So sentiment analysis will be essential to help special operators assess how well they are doing relative to China and Russia in places like South America.
“I think there's some cutting-edge work being done with the use of sentiment analysis and AI to get at those things,” he said.
One SOCOM official told Defense One on background that money had not yet been allocated to the effort and he expected the program to formally start in 2024.
Special Operators Want AI to Help Discern Public Opinion
New sentiment-analysis tools would improve psyops, SOCOM commander says.
www.defenseone.com
Spot On
Tex88
Veteran Member
Why, don't they come with a manual?
Is it that hard to watch TV and social media?
Scrapman
Veteran Member
Good human interest story regarding an interview of an Azovstal soldier who'd surrendered while the reporter was accompanied by a Donetsk soldier. This exchange really just reinforces the point that this is a Slavic family feud and nobody else's business.
Ukraine War Day #85: Up Close Look At Azovstal Surrender, I Mean Evacuation
Ukraine War Day #85: Up Close Look At Azovstal Surrender, I Mean Evacuation
Posted on May 19, 2022 by yalensis
Dear Readers:
I swore I was not going to do a piece on Azovstal — complete distraction from the real news taking place at the front, etc. But after reading this piece by Russian war correspondent Dmitry Steshin, I figured, okay, just this once. Because I am a sucker for a human interest story.
For those who have not been following this subplot within the main story arc, here is the Executive Summary:
After hiding, for weeks, like rats in their underground bunker; and after swearing on the Norse Gods pantheon and the Ghost of Adolph Hitler, that they will die rather than surrender, our Neo-Naughty “heroic defenders” decided to call it quits.
Initially there was just supposed to be “evacuation” of the severely wounded. Russian/DPR side promised to take these guys to the hospital, where they would be provided with medical treatment, probably physical therapy, and psychological counseling, to help them get over their PTSD. Then, once word got out that this was a thing, the process started ballooning and getting out of hand. Now even healthy, ambulatory Ukrainian soldiers decided they wanted to take the deal as well.
Next thing you know there were up to something like 700 guys or even more, wanting to surrender; and latest estimates say maybe even as many as a thousand. A fleet of buses and luxury coaches had to be chartered to take everybody, because Russians are nicer people than the Japanese in WWII, who just made prisoners walk to their own doom. Now they can take a bus.
But the really hilarious thing is that, at least in the first couple of days, before they got mocked to death on youtube and Twitter, Westie media all decided to spin this mass surrender as an “evacuation“. Which made it sound like the Ukrainian soldiers and neo-Naughties were calling the shots and rescuing their own. As usual, CNN was the most fakey of all the fake news, with deceitful headlines such as “They will be taken to the Ukrainian town of Novoazovsk…” conveniently omitting the fact that Novoazovsk is controlled by Donetsk Peoples Republic, not Ukraine. And much other deceitful headlines and copy. relying on the ignorance of their clickers.
“I laughed my Azov,” wrote one pro-Russian commenter to the CNN nonsense, thus birthing the meme du jour.
First Come The Sappers
Early morning, May 16. Reporter Steshin gets the scoop of a lifetime when he is allowed to hang out with the Russian/DPR soldiers at Azovstal, while they wait apprehensively for the thing to go down. The Ukrainians are set to emerge from the blocked up entrance to an old railroad tunnel connecting to the steel plant. Interminable minutes go by. Then: A white flag pokes out from one of the tunnels. A group of men in camouflage emerge. Accompanying them is a young boy, he looks to be around 15 or 16, his name is Kolya. He says he has been living inside the steel plant for the past month, he found himself a storage bunker, and that became his home.
This first group, including Kolya, is there to negotiate the terms of surrender for the others. Despite his youth, Kolya is clearly connected with the Nationalists and will most likely be detained with the others. One can only hope, for his mother’s sake, that she raised him properly, in other words, no tattoos! A single tattoo on the body can make the difference between status of regular POW and accused war criminal. Especially if it’s, like, a big swastika or sun symbol.
Four hours go by, now it’s around 13:00 hours. The word goes out: “They are coming out. Don’t open fire.” And then a group of Ukrainian sappers emerges. With help from the Russian soldiers, they get to work clearing the debris from the access road. Then, showing nerves of steel the sappers calmly clip the wires on the bombs, which are laid out everywhere and hidden in the debris. The entire area is de-mined, quickly and efficiently.
Two hours pass, now it’s 15:00 hours, and the Russians are waiting for the first group of seriously wounded to be brought out.
As the Azovites emerged from their cavern, they looked like moles who had been underground too long, blinking at the sun. Before them, even in this devastated place, spreads lush greenery, as frogs burble happily in the nearby river. Across the street is the restaurant Sarmat, which has been closed since the beginning of the war. One of the Azovites peers at the restaurant wistfully and sighs, “How I could eat some shashlyk…” Turns out that these guys are really hungry. Turns out they had plenty of water, but very little food. This is an important detail because everybody on the internet keeps repeating over and over that the “defenders” had no water. Actually, they had unlimited supplies of water. We’ll talk about this later.
Never Let Them Take Your Smile
At this point we are halfway down in Steshin’s report, and if you scroll down, there is a short video (just under 3 minutes) which illustrates some of this story. You can distinguish the Russian from the Ukrainian soldiers in that the former wear white stickers on their arms and legs; and the latter have blue or green stickers. Steshin shows the sappers doing their thing.
Steshin tries to strike up a conversation with some of the Azovites. They look straight ahead and won’t make eye contact with him. He notes that their gear is and kit is top of the line. They carry the same rifle as their Russian counterparts, the Kalashnikov.
The reporter was expecting dirty and frightened men, but this is not what he sees. They are clean, neat, and do not appear to be scared. More like apprehensive. The mystery of their cleanliness is solved when one of them dishes the secret: All along, they had plenty of water. They call it “technical” water, from endless supplies in the pipes. Technically it’s not supposed to be drinking water, but they would use it to make tea. And they would wash and stay clean. Given that, one wonders why they decided to surrender, but the secret is that they ran out of food a week ago. It was hunger, not thirst, which drove them out of their hole.
Steshin is accompanied by a DPR soldier named Vlad, who hails from Poltava. They have been inseparable for the past 3 months on the road. Vlad was filled with hatred against these Ukrainian Nazis, and wanted revenge. But now something is happening to him: At the sight of the captives, his hatred and anger start to melt away, and he becomes calmer. Steshin philosophizes about the “Russian soul”, and how this effect works: At the sight of a conquered enemy, the Russian rage wilts, then compassion becomes more dominant within the psyche. To be sure, these Nazis will be put on trial for their crimes. But it is not the Russian way to carry out battlefield justice.
S
teshin asks one of the Ukrainians: “How many still in there?” The Ukrainian, whose name is Dmytro, gets cagey: “Still quite a few, you’d be surprised…” Steshin offers the guy a chance to speak into the camera and let his loved ones know that he is still alive; but Dmytro politely declines. Not one of the captives wants to give an interview, so Steshin has to respect their choice.
An 18-year old Azovite named Nazar is the only person in the whole group of captives who speaks in pure Ukrainian dialect. He is from Lvov. He overhears Steshin chatting with Vlad and philosophizing, how this all came about. Nazar butts into the conversation and says, in Ukrainian dialect: “People were pitted against people.”
Ukrainian Dmytro objects to this: He says he is from Mariupol, and he says that people were getting used to the new life (under Maidan rules). Vlad objects angrily: “I am from Poltava, I had to leave my home in 2014, because I understood that it was impossible to live under the new rules. We all spoke Russian, and they started to forbid the Russian language, they passed a lot of laws…”
Dmytro exhales: “Yeah…” But then quickly collects himself and dives into the political debate: “All the same, these were our internal, Ukrainian affairs. Why did Russia have to stick its nose in?”
Vlad retorts angrily: “You wanted them to just kill us all, with nobody intervening? You have Europe and the U.S. behind you, so we have Russia behind us. Does that seem normal to you? Is it normal to waste your youth fighting in a war?”
Dmytro: “I have also been fighting since 2014. I also wasted my youth in this.”
Vlad [getting curious]: “Really? Whereabouts were you fighting?”
Steshin leaves these two soldiers to their reminiscing, noting that they kept up their conversation for at least an hour.
During that hour the de-mining process continued, there were more mines than you could count. But eventually the route was clear, and it was time to start bringing out the wounded. They brought the first group out on stretchers, and then headed back in for more. Some of the guys on stretchers were in really bad shape: They would not have lasted even one more day.
An Azov officer appears. He reports to the Russian group that the fighting component of the Regiment are still within the factory, and just waiting to see how everything goes on this first day of the process. The soldiers have internet connection so they are avidly following social media and watching everything that goes on. One conclusion they are all reaching is this: The Kiev regime has no use for them any more.
The battle for Mariupol is over!
What Happens Next?
Steshin and Vlad collect their gear and leave the scene. Vlad reveals, surprisingly, “You know. when this war is over, I would be happy to go out with Dmytro and have a drink with him.”
“You forgive them?”
“No. But I like him. We had a lot of things to talk about.”
“What about him do you like?”
“Well, he was the only one of them who didn’t pretend to be a cook. He was honest with me. He is a worthy adversary.”
“But we defeated them.”
“True. But it was a really tough job.”
Zagdid
Veteran Member
There was a globalist plan made to get Crimea back and more. Likely back when Trump was president. This might be why stealing the election was executed at all costs and the number two was selected to be as pliable as the number one. They are all in. Fully committed. At all costs. Things aren't going according to plan. Russia didn't fold. Peace isn't on the table.
The State Department is full of Ivy League @$$hats who think they are clever and smarter than everyone else.
These pseudo intellectuals are too smart to actually look at real world events let alone take responsibility for their moronic decisions so they fumble from cluster-f to cluster-f, wrapped in a waves of oblivious Self congratulation.
northern watch
TB Fanatic
Nowski
Let's Go Brandon!
Crimea is Russian again, just like it was before the events in 1954,
that took Crimea from Russia, and gave it to Ukraine. Had the ZUSA
coup d' etat not have occurred in 2014, Crimea would still be Ukraine.
Crimea will remain Russian now, 95% or more of the population of Ukraine
are Russians, they voted to rejoin Russia, and there inst anything that any
out of the pits of hell globalist can do about it. Thank The Most High GOD,
Russia has thermonuclear weapons, and they will protect Crimea with those
weapons if the POS globalist keep pushing.
Please be safe everyone.
Regards to all.
Nowski
jed turtle
a brother in the Lord
This is how the process works to take down America’s defenses and secure more income for the military industrial complex‘s contracts to replace all the “lend-lease” equipment ... much too late...
WTSR
Veteran Member
Maybe, in English but I guess they will have to download the Russian translated version for the Ukrainians.
Tex88
Veteran Member
I'm certain it exists, and if not, it's only about 900 pages. Shouldn't take too long if you can stop laughing at the inane warnings on every page:
Do not use HAND THROTTLE lever while driving vehicle. The HAND THROTTLE lever is not to be used as a cruise control. Failure to comply may result in serious injury or death to personnel or damage to equipment.
crossbowboy
Certifiable
Notice to the regulars here. The ones who bring news, thoughtful insight, and experience. ETA: includes DDoug too. Sometimes he is calm enough to do some fantastic spelling.
Everything is on the house for my valued friends, here at the Cross and Bow.
There is much armchair strategery occurring, we are amused.
My Faith is based upon the fact that most of you would bring the fires of hell upon any adversary that might force you out of that comfy armchair.
Don't **** with crusty old people.
That is all.
Everything is on the house for my valued friends, here at the Cross and Bow.
There is much armchair strategery occurring, we are amused.
My Faith is based upon the fact that most of you would bring the fires of hell upon any adversary that might force you out of that comfy armchair.
Don't **** with crusty old people.
That is all.
Josie
Has No Life - Lives on TB
THIS CANNOT BE STRESSED ENOUGH!
The U.S. of A. is NOT the country we once were. Just put on your special sunglasses (a la "They Live") or take off your red, white and blue flag waving sunglasses and see things for how they are now. Times have changed, things have changed, and people have changed.
“We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within....”
--Russia’s Communist leader Nikita Khrushchev
And they apparently have.
Josie
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Or grandma's that have had a good life and want to protect their grandbabies!
Zahra
Veteran Member
True and if Russia can secure & hold the land bridge they've captured Putin's accomplishment will rank right up there with Catherine the Great's when the Crimean peninsula was taken from the Ottoman Empire.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
But the imagery the Z with a circle. No Z's. no nazi's. de-nazification. the whole operation had a lot of thought put into it.
The nazi purge and removal of anyone with nazi or neo nazi links. Like they are trying to remove shrills and remnants of their former enemy from germany.
The core issue is that Russia is so broken that they literally do not have the proper gear to fight...
Grumphau
Veteran Member
Neither side wants peace. The conditions for peace do not exist. At this time there can be no peace.
Grumphau
Veteran Member
Russia: yo mama may lead to nuclear disaster
If you don’t finish your veggies…we will nuke you