DISASTER Why Are More Than 1,100 People Still Missing on Maui?

[Chance]

My brother was an insurance adjuster for some 20 years. (He's vacationed on Maui and visited Lahaina many, many times.) He told me today that he's had to look at hundreds of burned cars. One time he had to go to Texas, where a warehouse full of antique cars were all burned up - they suspected arson. Never has he seen melted aluminum, melted glass - like what he's been seeing on youtube videos of cars in Lahiana. He said the heat had to be so much more than a 'normal' fire. He also said their asphalt is like ours - yet it didn't melt.

Nothing is adding up about this 'fire'.

 

[WalknTrot]

You and I can both admit here the overriding problem here is our inherent distrust of the .Gov.

If that wasn't a consideration, our conversation regarding the dead and missing would be completely different.

I feel no "need to know" - especially a "need to know" instantly. That's for the people who are missing loved ones, so my personal distrust of gov't just doesn't factor in here.

My trust is in the people on the ground getting dirty, exhausted and at the same time acquiring a nice case of PTSD, doing the actual surveys and recovery. THEY have integrity and if shit doesn't line up properly, I also trust them to pull no punches and stir up a righteous stink about it. YMMV.

 

[Southside]

I feel no "need to know" - especially a "need to know" instantly. That's for the people who are missing loved ones, so my personal distrust of gov't just doesn't factor in here.

My trust is in the people on the ground getting dirty, exhausted and at the same time acquiring a nice case of PTSD, doing the actual surveys and recovery. THEY have integrity and if shit doesn't line up properly, I also trust them to pull no punches and stir up a righteous stink about it. YMMV.

With what the press is doing, I consider you optimistic, at best.

 

[Delta]

I would think the tourists would be easy to track down: airlines know the names of their passengers. My guess is that a lot of people fled into the ocean--but the hot, deoxygenated, smoky air or the sea itself was all that they had to breathe. Sharks or not, the current might simply have washed them away. On the other hand, how many people on the missing list are listed there more than once: any homeless guy named Bob might be reported missing by a dozen who knew him.

 

[parsonswife]

Just saw on twitter 2000 children missing according to dept of education

 

[Hawkgirl_70]

So, will Lahaina even have school this year? If this many or even 1/4 of that amount are missing, it just has to leak out. Right????

I don’t understand why the locals there aren’t tweeting and posting on social media that all these people and kids are missing?
Make it go viral. The world needs to know what this leftist government did.
I feel like they are getting away with everything. Heads should roll!

 

[workhorse]

For what it is worth was in a fire department for several years saw more burnt bodies than i ever wanted to. Had an elderly man house was a cape style burned down to the foundation only had a 1/2 basement. Looking for body because he was missing found him under a metal cabinet about 6 feet from the back door. It was his shop area. The cabinet held varnishes and solvents. No arms or legs. But pelvis to head were still there. Internal organs were still there as well. 90 percent of the body is water including all internal organs. They were swollen but still there. It’s been almost 35 years ago but that smell is one I will never forget.

 

[ainitfunny]

Too much connectivity these days, even compared 911. As far as the children go, I think it’s spot on to wait for school openings. If they are alive, then lots of records request.

The schools and all their records DIDN'T BURN?

 

[vessie]

Happens a lot on Maui according to my son. He was there in May when a teenage girl was stolen off the brach. He was told many people -usually young- are kidnapped off the beach and tourist areas, taken by SeaDoo to waiting boats off shore and never heard from again. He and his girlfriend left !
Maui for another island the next day. Freaked them out.

This is true and my sister who lives on Maui said it happens a lot but it’s kept out of the news since it would scare the tourists away.

It was weird that the same day she told me this on the phone when I was at home on Kauai, then during lunch with my friend who owns a big property management business on Kauai and hears a lot of info, told me the same thing about Kauai.

She didn’t know my sister told me this just that morning.

My friend said that the Hawaiian islands are a Major hub for human trafficking and was told that the abducted are then moved off island at Nawiliwili harbor.

She also told me about explosions being heard/felt by those living up north on the island. She was told it was lava tubes being blown up after rescue of trafficked people by the white hats.

The abductors use the lava tubes/caves for hiding the kidnapped. V

 

[vessie]

Who remembers how many died in the Great Chicago fire or massacre at Wounded Knee? The PTB control the narrative, land and access to it long enough world attention will move on and locals get annexed off their land yet again.

I think you all are making this way to hard. Follow the money. PTB have made it clear they don't want a Lahaina with quaint historic structures, small mom and pop businesses, single family homes especially on land owned and controlled by locals.

In a year I expect to see a Lahaina with high rise condos and high end chain stores lining Front Street. The PTB control zoning and building permit approvals. Without me mention the info from this thread a Hawaiian was telling me the PTB wanted Lahaina to become a: "smart city". I was hoping that was woo. Now? Not so sure.

You and I both know how extremely thin the “Veil” is here on the islands and how high the Mana is here.

It’ll be very interesting to see what happens when they try to rebuild Lahaina.

As in equipment failures, machines starting and stopping all by themselves, the worker accidents and workers experiencing ill luck or worse.

Like what happens here on Kauai when developers try to build on sacred land. V

 

[ainitfunny]

When you have a wild fire with hurricane high winds over thousands or even hundreds of acres you dont have a normal FOREST OR OTHER fire where most of the heat goes UP!

In this case, the wind COLLECTS THE HEAT of the whole area burning and sends it ahead. The people were probably hit by at least 1,000 degee winds before the fire even got to them.

As a 10 year old, I watched a really big barn full of hay and straw, and horses and cows, and other livestock burn.
I was a good 150 feet from it but when the wind (blowing at us) picked up, we all had to move much further back.
It was unbelievably hot, even at that distance. We were in front of the driveway to the farm, across the 4 lane? Highway and then some. Nobody could save those animals, I cried.

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Like what happens here on Kauai when developers try to build on sacred land. V

It's the "or worse" IMHO they might want to be concerned with. The Divine has a strange sense of humor, justice and it's own time table.

Now would be a good time for repentance and humility...

 

[ainitfunny]

It is also the people whose homes were untouched in the midst of the firestorm and all the homes around them burned, who are also going to have it rough.
There is the survivors guilt, asking why.
And some of those other people who lost family members and everything they had, may not be so kind to those whose homes escaped the fire.
And how can you continue to live in the midst of that death and rubble?

 

[Old Gray Mare]

It is also the people whose homes were untouched in the midst of the firestorm and all the homes around them burned, who are also going to have it rough.
There is the survivors guilt, asking why.
And some of those other people who lost family members and everything they had, may not be so kind to those whose homes escaped the fire.
And how can you continue to live in the midst of that death and rubble?

Because it's home. Because not only the bones of their family lay there, so do the bones of many generations of their ancestors. Maui is the source of their history, culture and traditions. No way are they going to give that up willingly. They want to rebuild.

Asking Hawaiians from Maui to give up Lahaina? Would the Brits give up London? The French Paris?

 

[BUBBAHOTEPT]

The schools and all their records DIDN'T BURN?

If they are alive and attending other schools requests will be made and physical presence acknowledged.

 

[Chance]

My brother was an insurance adjuster for some 20 years. (He's vacationed on Maui and visited Lahaina many, many times.) He told me today that he's had to look at hundreds of burned cars. One time he had to go to Texas, where a warehouse full of antique cars were all burned up - they suspected arson. Never has he seen melted aluminum, melted glass - like what he's been seeing on youtube videos of cars in Lahiana. He said the heat had to be so much more than a 'normal' fire. He also said their asphalt is like ours - yet it didn't melt.

Nothing is adding up about this 'fire'.

Adding this to this Maui thread too: And there are pics of vehicles - one half is the toasted/gray ash, not much left and the other half looks pretty untouched by fire.. How would that get explained as a 'regular' car fire?? How does half a car burn with melted aluminum, melted glass and the other half looks pretty untouched??

I goofed - my brother was an insurance APPRAISER - the guy who goes out and sees the damage and writes it up. Sorry about that.

 

[summerthyme]

Adding this to this Maui thread too: And there are pics of vehicles - one half is the toasted/gray ash, not much left and the other half looks pretty untouched by fire.. How would that get explained as a 'regular' car fire?? How does half a car burn with melted aluminum, melted glass and the other half looks pretty untouched??

Not an expert by any mean, but prevailing winds, in a firestorm, created all sorts of weird phenomena... nooks and crannies and sudden, tiny valleys where a firenado literally leapt over the green areas. There's always animals who somehow survive, often towards the outer edges where the firestorm effect isn't as intense.

Summerthyme

 

[Chance]

Not an expert by any mean, but prevailing winds, in a firestorm, created all sorts of weird phenomena... nooks and crannies and sudden, tiny valleys where a firenado literally leapt over the green areas. There's always animals who somehow survive, often towards the outer edges where the firestorm effect isn't as intense.

Summerthyme

Hello summerthyme,

Sure. We've all seen that happen.

Except I've been told that a car fire can be pretty hard to put out. There are so many parts to burn. Once they get going at that kind of heat (to melt aluminum and glass)...there isn't much that can be done to save the car.

I think there needs to be investigations done by non-government, non-FEMA people.

I don't believe a thing coming out of this administration or the Hawaii govt.

 

[ivantherussian03]

Zeker the statement you quoted was to point out how historical tragedies with high mortality are forgotten. The world moves it attention to the next disaster, war, election whatever the next thing is to catch it's interest. Maui is already becoming old new to the world. In Hawaii life goes on but memories are long.

I wish someone would tell me why cell service from Maui hasn't been fully restored. It's been two weeks. This is in Hawaii, USA not a third world country.

Just in the last couple of days it was mentioned they're going to start looking for remains in the water. Between tides, currents, crabs and other scavengers? They may not find much. Fish here are designed to eat coral. Will they eat bone? Don't know. Do know they are capable of it.

One thing I learned living in a third world country inside America called Alaska is most things don’t happen as fast as you think they could or should happen. My cell service has been out for two or three weeks at a time,.. many times.

it is an imperfect world.

 

[WalknTrot]

One thing I learned living in a third world country inside America called Alaska is most things don’t happen as fast as you think they could or should happen. My cell service has been out for two or three weeks at a time,.. many times.

it is an imperfect world.

Yup. All through this (before and after) I figured "mañana" or "island time" and attitudes factor in to a huge extent.
Gov't run a lot like Indian reservations on the mainland - entrenched, unqualified friends and relatives in charge for generations, shit doesn't get done or done right, don't rock the boat, and nobody busts their asses for anything.

 

[WalknTrot]

As search in Maui nears end, it’s unclear how many lost their lives​

Maui Police Chief John Pelletier said urban search and rescue teams have “completed 100% of their area.”

By ASSOCIATED PRESS
08/29/2023 10:31 P.M EDT

As search in Maui nears end, it's unclear how many lost their lives

Maui Police Chief John Pelletier said urban search and rescue teams have “completed 100% of their area."

www.politico.com

HONOLULU — Crews in Hawaii have all but finished searching for victims of the deadliest U.S. wildfire in more than a century, authorities said Tuesday, and it is unclear how many people perished.

Three weeks after the fire devastated Maui’s historic seaside community of Lahaina, the count of the dead stands at 115. But an unknown number of people are still missing.

Officials suggested that responders likely have already recovered any remains that are recognizable as such, and they are shifting the response to focus on removing hazardous waste and making the area safe for residents to begin returning.

“We have wrapped up almost completely the search and recovery mission and moving into the next phase,” Darryl Oliveira, the interim administrator of the Maui Emergency Management Agency, said at a news conference.

The next phase would be hazardous waste removal conducted by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, he said.

Maui Police Chief John Pelletier said urban search and rescue teams have “completed 100% of their area” but some search activity continues in the ocean off Lahaina.

The FBI is searching 200 yards out, along a four-mile stretch of coastline, but no human remains have been found, he said. There are 110 missing persons reports filed with Maui police, and more than 50 of those remain open cases that are still actively being worked, he said.

Although the initial land search is complete, authorities may also use details from the missing person reports to go over areas again, he added.

“They say, ‘My loved one was here’ and this may be a data point and we can continue,” Pelletier said. “In case there was a chance that something needs to be further looked at, we’ve got archeologists and we’re gonna make sure that we can do that so, again, we do this the right way.”

He asked for “trust and patience” as officials continue to identify remains and go through lists of the missing.

So far, authorities have identified and notified the loved ones of 45 of those killed. They have collected DNA from 120 people to identify the dead and continue to see more samples.