DISASTER Why Are More Than 1,100 People Still Missing on Maui?

BigFootsCousin

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Story by Matt Stieb •5h

The Maui fire’s human toll is already horrific: 115 people have been confirmed dead after a rapidly moving blaze swept across the west side of the Hawaiian island earlier this month, making it the deadliest wildfire in the United States in over a century. “No one has ever seen this that is alive today,” Maui police chief John Pelleiter said at a news conference Wednesday. “Not this size, not this number, not this volume — and we’re not done.”

Officials expect that the number of dead will rise as rescue teams, including cadaver dogs, continue to search the destroyed town of Lahaina and other areas ravaged by the fire. On Wednesday, the number of missing shot to 1,100, up from 850 as of Monday. To find those who are still unaccounted for, the FBI and the Red Cross have compiled a database of missing people to contact and mark as safe, and local officials have established a family-assistance center to help reunite loved ones. Personal efforts are underway as well, with flyers for the missing posted online and throughout the island. “The country grieves with you, stands with you,” President Biden said in his visit to Lahaina on Monday. Maui County officials intend to release the names of those still missing in the coming days in the hopes that loved ones will be able to confirm that their family and friends are safe or still unaccounted for. Maui Police Chef John Pelletier wanted to ensure that the missing list is “scrubbed” by multiple agencies before it is released to the public and that “we want to make sure we’re respectful as we can.”

The huge number of missing nearly two weeks after the fire does not indicate anything definitive about the ultimate death toll. Steven Merril, the FBI special agent in charge of the bureau’s Honolulu field office, told NBC News that the toll of missing person “doesn’t necessarily mean that these people, are in fact, missing.”

The aftermath of the Maui fire left evacuees scattered across the island and rescuers searching through rubble for the remains of victims of a blaze hot enough to melt cars. (As of Monday, officials were only able to identify 27 of the 100-plus victims.) The large number of tourists on the island and the substantial number of homeless residents in Lahaina also pose major challenges, as tourists were likely to head to the mainland — not necessarily aware that they were being searched for — and homeless residents do not always have easily traceable contact information.

“Any time you’ve got a situation where there’s no communication, disrupted transportation, those lead to breakdowns in information sharing as well,” a spokesperson for Hawaii Emergency Management Agency told the Washington Post. But thanks to the return of reliable cell-phone service and the work to reunify families, the number of missing has already decreased from 2,000 in the immediate days after the fire.

Looking at past fires helps put the trend in perspective. After the 2018 Camp Fire, which was the deadliest in modern U.S. history until Maui, over 1,000 people were reported missing. By the time the difficult work of identifying remains was completed, 85 deaths were confirmed — a tragic number, but far short of the early missing figures.

The search effort on Maui remains an extremely difficult effort. Several names on the missing list are just first names, and others do not have identifying information like gender or age. With the search of Lahaina roughly 85 percent complete, recovery teams are now focusing on multi-story buildings that collapsed in the blaze. “We know there are going to be tragedies in the buildings that haven’t yet been searched,” Governor Josh Green told Hawaii News Now. Due to the intensity of the blaze, identifying remains is a tremendous challenge: Officials have encouraged those with missing loved ones to submit DNA to a database to help identify victims whose partial remains have been recovered. “Realistically, we’re going to have a number of confirmed, we’re going to have a number of presumed,” Maui Police Chief John Pelletier said at a press conference on Tuesday.

The fact that the odds are in their favor is hardly a comfort to those searching for their missing friends and family. “It’s not a numbers game,” Maui police chief John Pelletier said last week. Beth McLeod, a resident of Rochester, New York, has been calling databases searching for her mother-in-law who has not checked in. “We love you, and we’re not going to stop at anything to find you,” McLeod told the local NBC station.
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BFC- How sad and how horrible it must be this far out from the actual fire and not knowing where your loved ones are.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
They're being "CAREFUL" and "RESPECTFUL AND REVERENT" or so they say.....


And THAT means slow walking the ACTUAL number, which will be a LOT CLOSER to 1150 than 115.


which is a whole lot closer to Succoth than Zer Editha (if you'll pardon a Masonic joke).
 

BUBBAHOTEPT

Veteran Member
This 2023 not 1953. Except for luddites like me who could disappear for a few weeks, all these people now, down to even the little ones, are connected. Something doesn’t seem right or the consequences of the conflagration were so devastating, that identification is impossible. Either way, it looks bad for the authorities -both local and national. If not for the MSM once again carrying their weight, folks would be a little more enthusiastic than just displaying the middle finger.
Will we ever know the truth? :kaid:
No Habeas corpus works for their narrative….
 

Mark D

Now running for Emperor.
They're being "CAREFUL" and "RESPECTFUL AND REVERENT" or so they say.....


And THAT means slow walking the ACTUAL number, which will be a LOT CLOSER to 1150 than 115.
I saw a post from a local this morning that made mention of some bodies being melted/fused into the sidewalks. Don't know if that's an exaggeration, but there have been enough comments trickling out about charred/carbonized remains, to make it sound like a possibility... I can see how there would still be a bunch of people "missing."
 

Southside

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The unaccounted are little more than cinders and bone fragments. Most are probably not recognizable as humans or even as bodies, just black piles. They aren't missing, they're right there on the ground, and mixed in fallen timbers, shingles and ashes.
Really? No, not a chance. That is what they want you to believe. IT IS NOT THE CASE.
a cremation takes 2-3 hours, at 1,400 degrees F
You don't really think there was enough fuel to burn at 1,400 degrees for 2-3 hours? Really?


1) Do all bones turn to ash during cremation?
The bones themselves will not burn during the process; in fact, if left undisturbed, there will be an entire skeleton left behind after a cremation. Then those bones are swept out and machinery is used to break them down into smaller components that can fit easily inside an urn or other storage vessel.

2)Fast compared to decomposition, but most people don’t know that it takes 2 – 2.5 hours to cremate a human body. As a general rule, people don’t spend a whole bunch of time thinking about the details of cremation, and so when pressed, most people think that it should take 15 – 30 minutes. There’s a lot of water to boil off, and heating water is a long, energy intensive process. Just go watch your teapot.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
The official number of missing and unaccounted for is 850. I don't expect that number to go down until a significant number of the dead are legally identified. So I don't know if the 115 sited officially are identified or not.

What I am saying is that it took a long time for people to believe that the death count for the two towers in NYC was not the initial 20,000 as believed. Emotions do that to people. Sucks.

Do I think the number of dead will rise? Yes. Do I think the entire thing is a flustercluck? Yes. I just know that people allow emotions to control things way too often. And that does not help the situation at all and in fact creates even greater harm for the people that are already victims.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
There is a video online about the 2018 Camp Fire. It took that fellow about a year for them to identify his father's remains with dna in a retirement community that burned. Thinking about the Irish babies in mass graves that were identified by family affiliation, the searchers also have to be careful not to mix their dna with remains while recovering.

After the Camp Fire, in order to get permission to rebuild, owners had to agree with the feds to bulldoze their property of all that was left. Then, they could apply for a rebuilding loan at low cost.
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
I hate to be the devils advocate/ "speaker I'll of the. Dead"... which I'm not trying to do... but my 'spitbaling' a dem/commy stronghold.... reckon any of the "missing" are long dead grandma's & gpas still collecting SS, FOOD STAMPS, housing vouchers & VOTING?!.... don't shoot the hypothesizer... just thinking outloud here...
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Really? No, not a chance. That is what they want you to believe. IT IS NOT THE CASE.
a cremation takes 2-3 hours, at 1,400 degrees F
You don't really think there was enough fuel to burn at 1,400 degrees for 2-3 hours? Really?
Not sure what you're disagreeing with here. I didn't say the bodies were ash, I said they were cinders and bone. They are black lumps mixed in with ash from buildings.

Many years ago my girlfriend as a cub reporter was covering the aftermath of a plane crash at O'Hare in '67, a plane that burned for ten or fifteen minutes tops. She said that as they were pulling bodies out you wouldn't recognize them as human at all. They were black lumps. That's why the cadaver dogs are needed, and that's why they count of missing is high. People can't see the bodies.
 

Southside

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Not sure what you're disagreeing with here. I didn't say the bodies were ash, I said they were cinders and bone. They are black lumps mixed in with ash from buildings.

Many years ago my girlfriend as a cub reporter was covering the aftermath of a plane crash at O'Hare in '67, a plane that burned for ten or fifteen minutes tops. She said that as they were pulling bodies out you wouldn't recognize them as human at all. They were black lumps. That's why the cadaver dogs are needed, and that's why they count of missing is high. People can't see the bodies.
My point is that, unlike what the people that are running this Sh!t-Show, the bodies are all recoverable. They want people to believe they are not, so they can hide the crimes/bodies/theft of children.

I would like to believe what the .Gov says, but it is all lies, well, so far it has been.

They are hiding their guilt/culpability/negligence. Don't know which, or all of them.
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My point is that, unlike what the people that are running this Sh!t-Show, the bodies are all recoverable. They want people to believe they are not, so they can hide the crimes/bodies/theft of children.

I would like to believe what the .Gov says, but it is all lies, well, so far it has been.

They are hiding their guilt/culpability/negligence. Don't know which, or all of them.
I don't have a problem with wanting to believe the govt. Haven't believed them since Vietnam and Watergate.
 

Old Gray Mare

TB Fanatic
Who remembers how many died in the Great Chicago fire or massacre at Wounded Knee? The PTB control the narrative, land and access to it long enough world attention will move on and locals get annexed off their land yet again.

I think you all are making this way to hard. Follow the money. PTB have made it clear they don't want a Lahaina with quaint historic structures, small mom and pop businesses, single family homes especially on land owned and controlled by locals.

In a year I expect to see a Lahaina with high rise condos and high end chain stores lining Front Street. The PTB control zoning and building permit approvals. Without me mention the info from this thread a Hawaiian was telling me the PTB wanted Lahaina to become a: "smart city". I was hoping that was woo. Now? Not so sure.
 
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bluelady

Veteran Member
Apparently a huge number of people went into the ocean to escape the flames. High winds and poor visibility, along with other obvious factors like fatigue, panic, and injuries, unfortunately must have caused many to drown.
 
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Hermantribe

Veteran Member
They were not turned into ash. If that were so the 14 yr and his dog would not have been found dead from the fire. I believe many children missing are kidnapped not dead.
Happens a lot on Maui according to my son. He was there in May when a teenage girl was stolen off the brach. He was told many people -usually young- are kidnapped off the beach and tourist areas, taken by SeaDoo to waiting boats off shore and never heard from again. He and his girlfriend left !
Maui for another island the next day. Freaked them out.
 

zeker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Who remembers how many died in the Great Chicago fire or massacre at Wounded Knee?
or david koresh bonfire. waco texas

OAN.. I use my woodstove for at least 6 months a yr

I burn all chicken bones and pork chop bones etc.

even taking the cherry red ashes, the bones are still there

they are very brittle, but very recognisable

and grey
 

Old Gray Mare

TB Fanatic
or david koresh bonfire. waco texas

OAN.. I use my woodstove for at least 6 months a yr

I burn all chicken bones and pork chop bones etc.

even taking the cherry red ashes, the bones are still there

they are very brittle, but very recognisable

and grey
Zeker the statement you quoted was to point out how historical tragedies with high mortality are forgotten. The world moves it attention to the next disaster, war, election whatever the next thing is to catch it's interest. Maui is already becoming old new to the world. In Hawaii life goes on but memories are long.

I wish someone would tell me why cell service from Maui hasn't been fully restored. It's been two weeks. This is in Hawaii, USA not a third world country.

Just in the last couple of days it was mentioned they're going to start looking for remains in the water. Between tides, currents, crabs and other scavengers? They may not find much. Fish here are designed to eat coral. Will they eat bone? Don't know. Do know they are capable of it.
 
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WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Really? No, not a chance. That is what they want you to believe. IT IS NOT THE CASE.
a cremation takes 2-3 hours, at 1,400 degrees F
You don't really think there was enough fuel to burn at 1,400 degrees for 2-3 hours? Really?


1) Do all bones turn to ash during cremation?
The bones themselves will not burn during the process; in fact, if left undisturbed, there will be an entire skeleton left behind after a cremation. Then those bones are swept out and machinery is used to break them down into smaller components that can fit easily inside an urn or other storage vessel.

2)Fast compared to decomposition, but most people don’t know that it takes 2 – 2.5 hours to cremate a human body. As a general rule, people don’t spend a whole bunch of time thinking about the details of cremation, and so when pressed, most people think that it should take 15 – 30 minutes. There’s a lot of water to boil off, and heating water is a long, energy intensive process. Just go watch your teapot.
Yep. I don't want to get graphic, but in a normal house-fire/car-fire type situation at least the more dense core remains intact and...well I'll stop there.

Recovery is a slow process - respect and accuracy is the overriding goal. Estimates of the missing may be off - we can only hope that is the case. It's a waiting game for everyone else while the teams take the time they need to pick over the mess.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
I hate to be the devils advocate/ "speaker I'll of the. Dead"... which I'm not trying to do... but my 'spitbaling' a dem/commy stronghold.... reckon any of the "missing" are long dead grandma's & gpas still collecting SS, FOOD STAMPS, housing vouchers & VOTING?!.... don't shoot the hypothesizer... just thinking outloud here...
Um. This true. In making a list of potential occupants VOTER ROLES would be a prime source.

There is a certain irony in this given the island's political history.

Dobbin
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
They're being "CAREFUL" and "RESPECTFUL AND REVERENT" or so they say.....


And THAT means slow walking the ACTUAL number, which will be a LOT CLOSER to 1150 than 115.


which is a whole lot closer to Succoth than Zer Editha (if you'll pardon a Masonic joke).
As I understand it, cadaver dogs are mostly attuned to necrotic or decomposition odours. Not sure how hot those fires got but it's quite likely sustained burn times and temps over 500 would leave nothing but long bones.

And yeah, fessing up to hundreds if not a couple of thousand dead will ramp up calls for reviews of all levels of govt. involved in emerg. mgt. & planning for the area.

As an outsider thousands of miles away, it seems like such inquiries would be quite appropriate.

I'm sure there are TB2K Members closer to the scene who know or suspect more and are hearing what the streets of Lahaina might be saying.
 
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CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
As I understand it, cadaver dogs are mostly attuned to necrotic or decomposition odours. Not sure how hot those fires got but it's quite likely sustained burn times and temps over 500 would leave nothing but long bones.

And yeah, fessing up to hundreds if not a couple of thousand dead will ramp up calls for reviews of all levels of govt. involved in emerg. mgt. & planning for the area.

As an outsider thousands of miles away, it seems like such inquiries would be quite appropriate.

I'm sure there are TB2K Members closer to the scene who know or suspect more and are hearing what the streets of Lahaina might be saying.
Same here and with even less knowledge.

Cuz off the cuff I would think that cadaver dogs use the smell of decomp. much like the smell of a scent of a squirrel on an early morning hunt with a squirrel dog. Which would last until all is gone.

In a massive fire would there be anything for them to smell? So find?

Second to that, as compared to Waco where they knew where to dig, they don't here, I would assume.

Had two cousins who were stationed in Manilla when it fell to the Japs. could have been in the death march. They are listed as MIA on the WWII war memorial there, to this day. Of Course they are dead, but the question is where are they buried.

My point being where do you look for the missing? It may be years before any of them are found, if at all.

Very bad situation all around. If not an accident, trials and public hanging all around. Get serious, not rehab.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Who remembers how many died in the Great Chicago fire or massacre at Wounded Knee? The PTB control the narrative, land and access to it long enough world attention will move on and locals get annexed off their land yet again.

Well it looks like the next distraction will be here soon enough with that huge hurricane that's fixin to hit Florida.
 

Southside

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yep. I don't want to get graphic, but in a normal house-fire/car-fire type situation at least the more dense core remains intact and...well I'll stop there.

Recovery is a slow process - respect and accuracy is the overriding goal. Estimates of the missing may be off - we can only hope that is the case. It's a waiting game for everyone else while the teams take the time they need to pick over the mess.
You and I can both admit here the overriding problem here is our inherent distrust of the .Gov.

If that wasn't a consideration, our conversation regarding the dead and missing would be completely different.
 
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