PREP What is your PLAN for dealing with GARBAGE, Human waste, dead bodies in a long term crisis

[ainitfunny]

One of the things you can see on "war cams" and I have noticed, is the cessation of garbage collection in a disruption of civil order, which can go on for MONTHS. When it is dangerous to even venture outside, WHAT PLANS have you made to deal with the GARBAGE, REFUSE, dead humans etc till social order recovers.

I also noticed that when the authorities are shooting anyone on the street and snipers abound YOU CANNOT TAKE ANYONE TO THE HOSPITAL or local clinic for medical treatment because it is suicide to even leave your home. Are you prepared with anything more than a first aid kit and at least SOME beyond first aid idea of how to keep someone alive till it is possible to take them (maybe days or weeks later) to the hospital?

Where will you PUT the garbage? Can you safely burn it in your location? The rats will come and multiply otherwise. Have you purchased a BIG roll of plastic sheeting from your Home depot? I'd get BLACK, you don't want to SEE what it is wrapping, in some circumstances.

Libya and several other nations in the midst of civil unrest have MOUNTAINS of garbage building up in the cities. I'm watching what ordinary people everywhere probably do, HOLE UP IN THE HOUSE with the wife and kids and lay low till it is safe to go outside.

What just happened in Syria, ( and probably happens everywhere during civil rebellions and uprisings) IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT, Desperate to hang onto power, and restore order, DOES NOT KNOW "WHO THE ENEMY IS" and is quite likely to start mowing down, KILLING ANY GROUP OR ASSEMBLY OF CITIZENS....like they just did to Syrians coming out of Last Friday's prayer service at a Mosque in Homs Syria...men, women and children. One of those "Kill em all and let God sort em out" applications of marshal law. I would assume the authorities must think anyone who dared to NOT cower in their home, but had the moxie to go to "church" must not have a proper fear of the government's military show of force in the city.

 

[Dux]

Most garbage is so unnecessary. Extra food won't be an issue, but trimmings & egg shells can go back in the garden. Reuse plastic & glass. Combustibles to the fireplace or put in the garden for compost or mulch. Human waste, latrines or garbage bags. Bodies we'll bury, if it comes to that.

 

[dragonslayer2001]

Move.

and that would be historically realistic.

 

[dogmanan]

ONE WORD


BURN

 

[dstraito]

ONE WORD


BURN

Yes, not just for getting rid of it but for heating, cooking, and possibly energy generation.

 

[dogmanan]

yes dstraito that was my though, execpt for the bodys ,,will be burning them to help keep down disease espicaly if their are many as I expect to be.


Burying bodys are ok or good if you have one every now and then but if because of pandamic or what ever I suspect their wil be many dead and puting that many in the ground so close toghter is poisonis and takes a while to break down.

If their is a pig farm close that is a good option use as pig food.

 

[Scrapman]

a good item to store would be some powdered lime for the outhouse . it is kept in the outhouse and every once and a while you throw a little in the hole .

 

[Border guard]

When TSHTF you won't be having any food scraps. Take all you want but eat all you take - food will be too valuable. Eat your egg shells - good source of calcium. Garbage? For things that can't be re-used (and that should be very few things) - make a dumping area, burn when necessary but remember others can see the fire. Bodies? Bury or burn them. Waste? Did a privy down slope from your AO. The big cities will be toast - bug out and stay away. Yes, there will be rats but there will also be millions of feral cats and dogs roaming, so that should keep the pest populations manageable. Government will only last as long as the majority of people let it - when enough people are fed up with being starved and killed, any government will fall.

 

[colonel holman]

pay attention to avoid waste runoff toward water supply, well, stream, etc.

 

[biere]

Not blowing this off but a search should turn up more ideas than I can recall.

I live in a rural area and am on a well and a septic system. Human waste will go in the septic like it does now and with a septic you need to use toilet paper that will disolve. You also have to be careful if letting people stay with you that you don't overload the septic system. Know what your system can handle and stick to that.

If I need to do so I can handle digging and setting up a composting toilet setup. Due to a shallow well and a lot of rock in the area I don't want to get into just letting waste get into the water table. You can read up on composting stuff and dealing with it, humanure is something to run a search on.

If I can go outside then yeah a 5 gallon bucket, some wood scraps, an old toilet seat, and a lot of garbage bags will go a long way. You can use small bags and just tie them off all the time or you can add a bit of lime after each use to larger bags and let that bag go a bit.

In cities or burbs with sewers I would make sure the sewer can not back up into my basement or house. Part of why I rent in a rural area and make sure I am valuable and could probably stick around where I am at since I am valuable to have around.

As far as food scraps, compost those things. From coffee grounds to egg shells to onion skins or potato skins the stuff can be composted and put back out in the garden or flower bed or whatever.

When it comes to canned stuff, wash the cans and keep the containers. During bad times you might find you need to make stuff. Cans get turned into candle lanterns or miniture pots for boiling water if they don't have a liner or who knows what. Cut both ends out and flatten the metal out and you have a metal shingle for repairing stuff.

Plastic is something I consider a waste when it comes to plastic bags for rice and beans and what not, I hate little plastic bags until I consider that 5 gallon bucket and a toilet seat.

I like canning jars and vacumn sealers and I even have a hand pump vacumn sealer for when the power is out. My rice and beans can be resealed into smaller jars as needed when opening a larger bag of stuff.

Clothes or shoes or most other trash will be recycled. Old sneakers become house shoes and old appliances get parted out for screws and metal.

Now to some extent you should examine your trash these days.

Go through it and see what you throw out.

I currently burn most of my paper since it is old bills and other paperwork I don't want to just put in the trash and take to the dump.

The dead bodies are something to consider. The shallow water table is something I worry about and it only takes one moron to mess it up for many people.

I would probably find an area where the body won't be soaked with water due to damp ground and could stay a while.

However I have put a whole lot of thought into serious water filters and what not because I doubt my neighbors will put much thought into it.

Just the remains from slaughtering pigs and cows can make a heck of a mess.

And wild scavenger animals will be an issue.

 

[Grammytomany]

Burn. Cannot think of a better way but we have tons of tall, huge pines with enormous root systems. For small trash, dig hole and burn makes easy sense but for BIG (Bodies), I worry about the trees catching fire. Your reply would be welcome.

 

[Troke]

when enough people are fed up with being starved and killed

They will follow any Leader. And I guarantee that one will show up.

 

[kyrsyan]

I already implement systems that have drastically reduced our household garbage. From canning our own stuff, to composting, to recycling. What little I throw in the garbage can now could be easily handled by burning. I would do it now except the town would probably have a fit. My only worries would actually be for the recycling materials, but since those would be minimal I could handle it.

 

[colonel holman]

Our deep-woods cottage has a composting toilet and it works great. (brand is BioLet). Simply a collection bin party filled with a mix of sphanum, sawdust, ground peanut hulls (a commercial purchased mix, easily duplicated). Bin perforated at bottom to let water wastses trickle out tube to ground (sand-stone base like a grey water setup). Every time a stool is depositied, sprinkly a bit more of the mix on it to encourage composting process. Vented and no odor ever encountered. One could replicate this with 5 gal bucket outside or in outhouse. We empty the bin every 6 months in the woods at a site dedicated to this composting.

 

[Chair Warmer]

As others have noted, if you're not buying anything then there shouldn't be much waste to throw away.

If there's any scraps they could be put outside to bait animals which you could eat.

People will learn to get creative and reuse things for other purposes. I remember my grandma (born early 1900's) always washing out the bread bags to save. She often used them to wrap her carrot or applesauce cakes in. One Winter when I was a kid, when snow was on the ground, she put those breadbags over my shoes and legs to walk home through the snow.

 

[willowlady]

As others have noted, if you're not buying anything then there shouldn't be much waste to throw away.

If there's any scraps they could be put outside to bait animals which you could eat.

People will learn to get creative and reuse things for other purposes. I remember my grandma (born early 1900's) always washing out the bread bags to save. She often used them to wrap her carrot or applesauce cakes in. One Winter when I was a kid, when snow was on the ground, she put those breadbags over my shoes and legs to walk home through the snow.

Your Grandma was my kind of thrifty. I, too, save breadbags. When it snows so seldom that buying snow boots is a waste, or the kids are growing so fast again it's a waste, breadbags made a handy snowboot. Since I now make my own bread, I also use them to put my thoroughly cooled bread into for fresh keeping. Most of what we use can be recycled in some form or another. I don't anticipate leftover food being a big problem, but things like bones take a bit to get composted. When TSHTF, we'll probably burn them dry, collect them, and turn them into bone meal for the gardens. Plastic containers are indeed an issue. But a little thought will allow us to re-purpose them, I'm sure. For instance, plastic soap containers: Cut the plastic into more or less flat pieces. Use them as shingles for an expanded hen shed, etc. Bodies will be a problem only when its one of ours. Then it will get buried close by. Other bodies are going to be left to let nature take its course, partly as a warning sign, partly because the task of properly disposing of all of them will be too great, at least in the beginning. Later, they can be collected and burned.

 

[Border guard]

Not many on this board will blindly "follow the leader." Maybe a while ago the masses would blindly follow anyone making the right promises but I don't see that happening now, except for the extremists in both parties (TPTB wannabees), for which there is no hope.

when enough people are fed up with being starved and killed

They will follow any Leader. And I guarantee that one will show up.

 

[Kathy in FL]

I already implement systems that have drastically reduced our household garbage. From canning our own stuff, to composting, to recycling. What little I throw in the garbage can now could be easily handled by burning. I would do it now except the town would probably have a fit. My only worries would actually be for the recycling materials, but since those would be minimal I could handle it.

Exactly. For a family of 7, now 6, we create maybe one can of garbage a week. I have two garbage compost piles. One pile is the good pile for the garden. The other sits on a French drain that leads to barrel septic tank that I loaded with a start from our house septic tank. This second compost pile is where I put things in appropriate for the first pile.

 

[Chair Warmer]

Grandma made her own soap too. I remember them putting their trash in a paper grocery bag and it seems like it took them a month to fill it up. They had a woodstove and burned any paper items.

 

[kyrsyan]

Exactly. For a family of 7, now 6, we create maybe one can of garbage a week. I have two garbage compost piles. One pile is the good pile for the garden. The other sits on a French drain that leads to barrel septic tank that I loaded with a start from our house septic tank. This second compost pile is where I put things in appropriate for the first pile.

I like the second pile idea. Although with the number of strays around here I would probably have to do some serious protection for it. Do you mind sharing the design?

 

[dogmanan]

WOW when I was a kid we were so poor we wore bread bags for snow boots to,wow that brings back memories.

 

[dstraito]

As others have noted, if you're not buying anything then there shouldn't be much waste to throw away.

If there's any scraps they could be put outside to bait animals which you could eat.

People will learn to get creative and reuse things for other purposes. I remember my grandma (born early 1900's) always washing out the bread bags to save. She often used them to wrap her carrot or applesauce cakes in. One Winter when I was a kid, when snow was on the ground, she put those breadbags over my shoes and legs to walk home through the snow.

In the long run you are probably right, in the short run there is going to be massive amounts of trash. Have you ever seen the trails leading from immigrants coming from Mexico They are carrying a lot of their belongings and as they get weary they start disposing them. As people die their belongings will be gone through. People will abandon their vehicles and houses and those will be looted, the stuff no one wants will be easily discarded and won't be valuable until later when everything becomes scarce.

Refuse will blow around and stackup as there won't be any garbage collection.

Without maintenance houses and apartments will slowly degrade.

Foods will spoil adding to possible disease along with the bodies.

Animals will be let loose and will go feral very quickly, dogs hunting in packs and attacking for food and dominance.

Fast forward a few years and scraps of paper will become scarce as it isn't being made anymore. Little things like paper, especially toilet paper will become very valuable.

 

[smokin]

we used old socks for mittens. Off thread.

Burn baby burn.
Compost.
Lime.
Coyotes will probably take care of the bodies. Just hope they don't think humans taste good.
Recycle recycle recycle.

Those in dense populations will have a harder time. That is where the rats and disease will generate.

 

[dstraito]

Immigrants Trash

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/Arizona-Desert-Trash.htm

Pretty much what I would expect the future to look like.

 

[TECH32]

yes dstraito that was my though, execpt for the bodys ,,will be burning them to help keep down disease espicaly if their are many as I expect to be.


Burying bodys are ok or good if you have one every now and then but if because of pandamic or what ever I suspect their wil be many dead and puting that many in the ground so close toghter is poisonis and takes a while to break down.

If their is a pig farm close that is a good option use as pig food.

If there's a pandemic there will also likely be plenty of empty houses. Find one that's not close to trees or other houses, put the bodies in it, and burn.

 

[Deb Mc]

RE: Human waste

I'd been thinking of composting it, with a plexiglas top and sides to help increase the heat to speed up decomposition. Had read somewhere, maybe it was the "Humanure Handbook"?, that human waste can carry liver flukes and so you have to heat up the waste to a higher temp for a longer period of time, to kill off the flukes and other potential diseases. You'd also want to make sure that the waste didn't run off and contaminate nearby water sources.


RE: Garbage

Recycle and reuse for the most part. Perhaps clean and use as a trade material?


RE: Bodies

Am presuming that the city or neighbors and the family will have some sort of system set up for burials, if needs be. Will cross that bridge once we get there, if needed.

 

[colonel holman]

The thought process for us will be.. what did our ancestors do in the 1700s, here on this very same farm.

 

[summerthyme]

Colonel... yep. We take about one load to the county dump a year... maybe 3-4 bags. That's plastics and other things we don't WANT to burn. Most of them would burn, if necessary. Everything else is handled here already... good working septic system which handled 6 people (including 4 teens) plus more guests than I like to remember for a decade or more. We had it pumped out in 1999- the first time in at least 20 years. According to the guy who did the pumping, it really didn't need it...

There are several local Amish cemeteries within walking distance. Those who have families would likely be either allowed to use one of them, or simply would start a new "English" cemetery on an unused part of someone's farm.

We already shred most waste papers and use them for chicken bedding. That eventually goes into the gardens or around the fruit trees. Nothing is wasted.

"Tin" cans could be opened, flattened and used for everything from shingles for a chicken coop to patches for various problems. There are actually books out there (from the Depression era) on various toys and gadgets, etc you can make from tin cans.

You won't have paper towels, paper napkins, or other disposables for long. After that, it will be fabric for everything... and you'll wash and reuse that until it falls to absolute shreds. Back in the day when your Sunday suit started as the wool on a live sheep, and had to be sheared, washed, combed, spun and woven before you could even cut it out to sew the suit, believe me, people TREASURED their clothing!! It's no wonder patchwork quilts became an art form... after cutting out the suit, you sure didn't throw any scraps away! They represented many hours of work!

"Trash" as we know it will VERY quickly become nonexistent...

Summerthyme

 

[Taz]

One thing I learned living off the grid in Mexico is the beauty of a fire pit made from the drum of a washing machine. So while you are dismantling that washer make sure you get the drum out. It is full of holes so get a nice airflow to the fire. Bury it about 6 inches into the ground. And oh, the beauty of having a wood stove to burn stuff. One can always use "stuff" to get your fire going. For years I sorted all the mail in front of it and I really miss that convienence.
No one ever speaks of water towers. My neighbor right behind me has a 20kw propane genny. When the SHTF we are going to build a water tower that will provide gravity feed to both houses. And then there is the swimming pool.

 

[Publius]

Here we can burn anything thats non organic as for human waste it can be composted and used in the garden. The dead, we have so much heavy equipment in the area that digging holes would not be a problem.

 

[nharrold]

Not blowing this off but a search should turn up more ideas than I can recall.

You also have to be careful if letting people stay with you that you don't overload the septic system. Know what your system can handle and stick to that.

On the rare occasions when my wife's female relatives visit, they invariably clog the septic system with their female stuff, regardless of our requests that they not do so. They are city yuppy DGIs, and haven't a clue about anything rural.

In the future, especially wtshtf, I will tell them that if they clog the system, THEY will be the ones to unclog it. That is not a fun job, believe me!

 

[nharrold]

we used old socks for mittens. Off thread.

Those in dense populations will have a harder time. That is where the rats and disease will generate.

I knew some Italians who told me of their hardships during WWII...especially including the hunting and eating of rats and mice.

 

[nomifyle]

I, too, have a good septic, plus a burn barrel and a shovel. That should do it for me. Plastic bags can be braded in to a nice rug.

Judy

 

[Egyptian mummy]

I save all my egg shells. You could powder them up now in the blender while you still got electric. Then maybe later when
you need them add the pd. to soup for extra calcium. You could also dissolve them in a little bit of vinegar - not sure what
you'd do with the vinegar thro....drink it? Yuk! Any other ideas?

 

[Egyptian mummy]

I completely forgot about paper to write on. If we run out of paper we will be writing on clay or stone like they did a
thousand yrs ago. So i'm gonna start buying some cheap tablets of paper. Printing paper is good too and maybe better
even. Sometimes now when i can't find paper quick i will grab a book and find the front or last page which is blank and
write on it. So bks can come in handy for writing paper as there's usually a blank page or two in front or in back!

 

[seraphima]

Separate liquid from solid human waste (pee into a container) Urine is very useful, diluted, for gardens as it is a good source of nitrogen. It had other applications in the past for tanning leathers and bleaching clothes. (We visited Pompeii, and there was one storefront workshop where a fuller (laundry and whitener) had big stone tubs for fulling clothes using urine as an ingredient.)

Solid wastes, as noted above, need hot composting if they are to be used as fertilizer, or may be buried deep in an outhouse in the manner most of us have encountered in the boonies.

If you have electricity, a good way to keep rats away from food compost is to put food scraps or peeling in a blender with water. Poured into a hole or small trench in your garden each time, there will not be enough food to bring a rat.

 

[Be Well]

a good item to store would be some powdered lime for the outhouse . it is kept in the outhouse and every once and a while you throw a little in the hole .

Lime doesn't speed decomposition, better is the Humanure system IMHO. Leaves, sawdust, leaf mould, chipper shredded stuff, even dirt all have microbes that help speed the composting of excrement. Been there, done it, it works.

Dead bodies - burn or if in the summer when burning is dangerous, bury. Lots of acres of BLM near by.

Garbage - compost the compostable, burn the non-compostable, plastic etc, compact it tightly for taking to the dump eventually.

 

[Be Well]

I completely forgot about paper to write on. If we run out of paper we will be writing on clay or stone like they did a
thousand yrs ago. So i'm gonna start buying some cheap tablets of paper. Printing paper is good too and maybe better
even. Sometimes now when i can't find paper quick i will grab a book and find the front or last page which is blank and
write on it. So bks can come in handy for writing paper as there's usually a blank page or two in front or in back!

Some newspapers sell rolls of blank newsprint, say rolls that are too small for taking to the printers or something? We got an end of a roll for a few bucks, it's years of paper. I've been cutting it up and putting it on a clipboard for DH's notes, figurings, etc. Also buy lined paper when it's on sale, have a lot of it. I also try not to waste paper - for instance, when a month is over, I cut up the calendar page in squares to use for notes by the phone, lists for shopping, etc. Any scrap paper that is blank on one side I do the same.

 

[summerthyme]

THE best time to stock up on paper, pencils, pens, glue, etc is during the "back to school" sales in late July or August.

We almost never buy anything in that line (except computer printer paper, which I buy by the case at Sam's Club a couple times a year) at any other time. You can get packs of pens and pencils, crayons, etc for pennies at WalMArt or other stores which are trying to get on the bandwagon...

And yeah, if you've every tried making handmade paper, those tablets and notebooks suddenly start looking a whole lot more valuable!

Summerthyme

 

[LoupGarou]

A toss up between one of my CO2 Lasers, and my Backhoe. If one can't deal with the mess, the other can.

Loup