HEALTH Weapons Training Likely Causes Brain Injury in Troops, Study Says

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/weapon...-brain-injury-in-troops-study-says-1525060860

U.S.

Weapons Training Likely Causes Brain Injury in Troops, Study Says

Gauges worn on troops’ helmets and body armor register substantial blasts in combat and in training

By Ben Kesling
April 30, 2018 12:01 a.m. ET
224 COMMENTS

WASHINGTON—Thousands of U.S. troops are likely suffering traumatic brain injury not just from battlefield explosions but from repeated exposure to trauma while training on their own weapons, according to a new study.

Service members, even those who may not have seen combat but specialize in using high explosives or weapons such as rocket launchers, could have lasting brain damage from the pounding on their necks and heads, researchers at the Center for a New American Security said in a report released Monday. The defense think tank is a nonprofit organization funded by the federal government and public- and private-sector donors.

“It’s analogous to people getting hits to the head in sports, playing football or boxing,” said Paul Scharre, a senior fellow at the center. “This is not really well understood, the primary blast effects on the brain. Exactly how it affects the brain is unclear, but the fact that it is having some kind of negative effect is now being shown.”

Shoulder-fired rockets and rocket-propelled grenades don’t shoot away with a “whoosh” as they are sometimes portrayed in movies. They go off with an ear-ringing boom that troops sometimes liken to getting punched in the side of the head. The Defense Department has long acknowledged this and has limits on the number of rounds troops can fire at any given time. But the Pentagon didn’t take a hard look at the harm these blasts could cause until recently.

The Department of Defense started diagnosing and tracking traumatic brain injury just before the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan began. TBI has become one of the signature injuries of the current generation of troops, with some 380,000 personnel affected by it, according to the Defense Department.

The military sporadically has used blast gauges, small devices worn on troops’ helmets or body armor, to better understand the effects of explosions in combat. Researchers began to notice that these gauges weren’t just registering substantial blasts in combat, but in training, too.

Researchers drew on Defense Department data, blast-effect research on animal subjects and computer modeling to reach their conclusions, noting that military officials have expressed concern about the issue and say it needs further examination. Researchers and officials say available data is insufficient.

Using weapons such as shoulder-fired rockets in combat and training is a necessity, Mr. Scharre said, but the military can do more to manage the risks. One of the reports’ recommendations is for the military to track when troops fire the weapons in training, partly so troops can be treated for injuries later and compensated for disabilities.

“They would have a record of times of exposure, how frequent, the amount of ammunition shot and over what time period,” said Lauren Fish, co-author of the report.

The military can also do more to develop helmets that protect troops from the blast wave that splits the air in an explosion, researchers said. Those helmets could include jaw protection and visors to resemble a motorcycle-racing helmet, which may not be practical in combat but would be useful in training environments.

Representatives from a number of veterans’ advocacy organizations, including those who help vets with disability claims, said they haven’t noticed vets complaining about the problem or making claims to the Department of Veterans Affairs for compensation in the matter.

That could be because there isn’t a major problem, or because vets don’t yet realize the problem. It took time for those affected to recognize the long-term effects of Agent Orange on their health.

VA spokesman Curt Cashour said the department hasn’t undertaken the time-consuming process of reviewing individual cases to determine whether vets are claiming harm from repeated exposure in training. He said the VA and the Pentagon “are studying the effects of mild TBI that can be caused by blast exposure in both active-duty service members and veterans,” but those enrolled in current research don’t show effects from repeated exposure to their own weapons.

The Defense Department didn’t respond to requests for comment.

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Write to Ben Kesling at benjamin.kesling@wsj.com
 
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Troke

On TB every waking moment
Well, some years ago, somebody tested all the potential generals at the Ft Leavenworth Command and General Staff college and were horrified that the majority had major hearing loss.

I understood from that article that ear protectors were issued for training. Now it is brain trauma

Well, as for me, I was standing alongside a 106mm recoilless rifle, didn't know it was loaded until they set it off. I am still living with that in my right ear. As for the brain injury, my DW has often wondered. .
 

Garryowen

Deceased
War is essentially a violent activity. Many manufacturing facilities cause hearing trauma also. One doesn't always have time to put on hearing protection before a firefight.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
For one example-

SMAW -

/Snip/
When the rocket is fired, the rocket propellant in expended entirely within the rocket encasement. This is the cause of the extremely loud and violent backblast. This backblast extends in a 90-meter, 60° cone to the rear of the weapon. The backblast is lethal out to 30 metres (98 ft), and still extremely dangerous to 90 metres (300 ft). An assistant gunner is often used during employment of the weapon system to monitor the backblast area and clear it of fellow troops, or to notify the gunner of obstructions that could reflect the force of the backblast back at the gun team. The gunner is only cleared to launch a rocket when he hears the command "Backblast area secure" from his assistant gunner.
/snip/
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_153_Shoulder-Launched_Multipurpose_Assault_Weapon_(SMAW)
 

Mark D

Now running for Emperor.
"SO, WHAT BRANCH OF THE MILITARY WERE YOU IN?"

"Airforce. And, I'm guessing you were in the Army? Probably Artillery?"

"HOW'D YOU KNOW?!?!"


Jokes aside, the report from a .50BMG will go straight to your inner ear through your skull - ear plugs don't do a thing to stop it. Being near a Carl Gustav will do the same thing. I forget what the daily maximum of rounds fired is for artillery crews, but it was a pretty small number, and exceeding that quickly led to nausea and internal organ effects.

Spend time next to noise/concussive energy like that frequently enough, and you're gonna get all manner of problems. That sucks, but it's part of the deal of being at the pointy end. Not gonna be able to change that equation until Sci-Fi powered armor arrives on the stage.
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"SO, WHAT BRANCH OF THE MILITARY WERE YOU IN?"

"Airforce. And, I'm guessing you were in the Army? Probably Artillery?"

"HOW'D YOU KNOW?!?!"


Jokes aside, the report from a .50BMG will go straight to your inner ear through your skull - ear plugs don't do a thing to stop it. Being near a Carl Gustav will do the same thing. I forget what the daily maximum of rounds fired is for artillery crews, but it was a pretty small number, and exceeding that quickly led to nausea and internal organ effects.

Spend time next to noise/concussive energy like that frequently enough, and you're gonna get all manner of problems. That sucks, but it's part of the deal of being at the pointy end. Not gonna be able to change that equation until Sci-Fi powered armor arrives on the stage.

I am seeing that armor on the cosplay seen in the higher tier of builds.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
We used to fire M2 50calibers on post mounts on ship. We'd shoot at inflated plastic garbage bags in the water. Standing directly behind the mount wasn't bad at all. Off to the side waiting your turn to shoot, you could feel it more.

I do remember being off to the side and 25 to 30 feet away from the muzzle of a 5 inch 54 gun and the concussion was sharp and stinging my whole body all the way through.
It was impossible to even hold something like a screwdriver in your hand. Even though you were braced and expecting it, it was impossible to hold on to the screwdriver. It felt like someone slapped every square inch of your body at the exact same time.
Probably where my hearing loss came from, although it could have also come from having to go down in the firerooms or enginerooms and the noise level was so high that you had to get within a foot of someone and yell for your voice to be understood.

The military has gotten much better at safety precautions since the late 60s and early 70s. During those early years I slept in asbestos dust while the ship was in the shipyard, handled mercury by the pound, been exposed to shock and concussive sound and constant high noise levels, been a radiation worker (actually burned my neck on a reactor control rod drive mechanism while standing on top of the reactor), been exposed to carcinogenic compounds and solvents, been burned by liquid nitrogen splashes, and watched my leading petty officer get accidentally shot by my division master chief petty officer who was the acting range master at a on base pistol shoot.

Hell I want my disability pay :lol:
Not everyone gets to die in a glorious battle with the enemy. Most just suffer various bodily insults that they just deal with for the rest of their lives. It comes with the job.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Well, some years ago, somebody tested all the potential generals at the Ft Leavenworth Command and General Staff college and were horrified that the majority had major hearing loss.


Was it "generally major" hearing loss? (Sorry, I couldn't help myself - heh.)


The answer is clear: cease training with weapons and replace with pregnant-belly-and-high-heels training. The faggonazis would love that...
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
During those early years I slept in asbestos dust while the ship was in the shipyard, handled mercury by the pound, been exposed to shock and concussive sound and constant high noise levels, been a radiation worker (actually burned my neck on a reactor control rod drive mechanism while standing on top of the reactor), been exposed to carcinogenic compounds and solvents, been burned by liquid nitrogen splashes


Well, I must say, that explains a LOT. You're a retard, but it's not your fault... (snicker)
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
Life in general is bad for the human body. We receive damage all the time. Fighting for survival would be one of those items. The idea that it can cause brain damage is not surprising. What should be done if anything is a question that each of us should answer on an individual basis.

In general, life is too short to worry about everything that may or may not cause us harm.
 
Every time I read some crap like the op, I wonder about the cognitive age of the author. War is ugly, war is hard and war is dangerous. Our military can also be ugly, hard and dangerous. They go where most people will not and do what most people will not because that's what they do ... 24/7 ... they protect all of us, even the "educated" morons who research and write this stuff. We have a voluntary army right now which means that they chose to enlist, for whatever reason, and were fully aware of their choice and its ramifications. My Dad landed on Omaha at the age of 22. My husband served two tours in Vietnam. My son is a LT. Colonel in the USAF. I am proud to be part of this family of strong men who serve because they love this country and want to protect it.

The point of this article does not escape me. The author is laying the groundwork to soften the training and responsibilities of the men and women we have in uniform. They want to emasculate any man who is strong or, for lack of a better term, masculine. More bullshit from the right to weaken the US to make us more malleable for the globalists.

Thanks for listening. Rant off.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"Shoulder-fired rockets and rocket-propelled grenades don’t shoot away with a “whoosh” as they are sometimes portrayed in movies. They go off with an ear-ringing boom that troops sometimes liken to getting punched in the side of the head."

I participated in a training session with the infamous RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade launcher and the sound from the firing position was incredible. The RPG's warhead is designed to explode downrange whether it hits a target or not. By the time the warhead explodes, to those in the immediate vicinity of the firing, that explosion just sounds like a little pop because your ears are still ringing from the blast of the weapon being fired. These - by now - fairly ancient launchers are still widely used and distributed around the world. With an RPG or any type of recoilless rifle or grenade launcher, another huge danger is the back blast area behind the weapon. The back blast can kill, maim and burn persons a surprising distance behind the weapon. Also, unlike conventional rifles, the sound of an RPG is - if anything - louder when you stand to the rear and off to the side of the weapon than it is by being to the side or slightly in front of it.

Best regards
Doc
 

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
War is essentially a violent activity. Many manufacturing facilities cause hearing trauma also. One doesn't always have time to put on hearing protection before a firefight.

Hearing loss is not masculine. Are helmets for sissies? Is it lame to wear gloves in cold weather?

There are available hearing protectors that allow voices, etc to get through but will nearly stop a gunshot. I tested one at a gunshot once; very impressive.

Hearing loss makes you a soldier with a disability. Hearing is a sense that you might need in a combat situation.
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
I"ve always wondered why grunts don't have hearing protection in place. I think SF guys have access to good stuff. Have met many who have issues with hearing due to guns, a lot of old timers just dealt with it then, and the rest of their lives.

We know better, the technology is there, and unit comms would be much better with todays tech applied. They have made soldiers guinea pigs along the way.
 

homepark

Resist
I can tell you that being on the receiving end of 122mm rockets is no fun, no fun at all. Even with a barrier of sandbags, those landing on the other side have long lasting effects.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
GaWarriorQueen and dogmanan protecting our military so they don't get injured is not turning them into pussies. Or they "volunteered" and they knew what they were getting into doesn't cut it. I went in while the draft was still going on, but anybody that wanted to could always come up with a reason to get deferred. Hell Trump, even after his military school, got exempted 4 time for school and once for bone spurs on his feet even though he likes to walk for miles playing golf. His bone spurs never caused him further problems and wouldn't have disqualified him for the Navy or AirForce.

As far as being careful to not be injured in training:
SEALs are some of the best warriors on the planet and they learned a long time ago that losing a guy to training injuries is a waste of a good part of a million dollars and a very valuable resource. The blood and health of our military is a precious commodity and shouldn't be thrown away by an ignorant nation who thinks it's all about being macho and not being a pussy.
SEALs go to special schools and classes before they even start training. The purpose is to teach them to avoid needless injuries. how to train with weights and to run, and every thing else that would cost the Navy the value of a fully trained SEAL because someone did something stupid in training.
They have exercise physiologists, nutrition counselors, constant medical exams, scientifically designed equipment, and training techniques that must get signed off by a whole army of specialists whose job it is, is to make sure it results in a highly trained warrior who is not injured and dropped before he completes training.
You need a good coach? Talk to a Navy SEAL. They've learned the proper way to exercise and lift weights and swim and fight and use their weapons in a way that is absolutely lethal to their enemies but works well to keep them alive, healthy and in the fight.

That is the purpose of the military. Yeah they kill people and break things, but they don't needlessly injure or lose their most precious resource, their own warriors in the guise of "suck it up" so what if you get injured and dropped.

My son's new job is no longer wound care, but working for the VA, and seeing veterans to validate their claim for disabilities and to order further diagnostic tests and to get further medical treatment and assistance and to recommend disability if warranted. His recommendation goes to a board who acts on it by approving or disproving the claim, or shoots it up the chain for more thorough evaluation.
He is still seeing a lot of agent orange cases, in addition to new mideast war veterans with unhealed fractures and traumatic brain injuries from getting blown up with by an IED, and other disabilities they sustained while in the military and weren't taken care of in the military. In addition to the common "I can't hear anymore", two weeks ago he also had a female marine discharged 2 years ago for not being able to walk right anymore and who had two unhealed broken bones in her foot when the military said the pre discharge Xrays were normal (They were not), and a soldier who got his vehicle blown up by an IED who's brain rattled around in his skull and can't put words together right anymore. You want to call them pussies, and I'll fight you for them.

It's not macho to needlessly stay in a reactor compartment to see how much radiation you can register on your TLD.
It's not macho to stay in a high noise area without ear protection so you can walk around the rest of your life saying "What?" to people.
It's not macho to break your leg or get a spinal injury because you weren't careful in BUDS so you can be dropped from the program right near the end of the most difficult phase.
DARPA is designing all kinds of special protective and life saving equipment for our military, and it's not "macho" to refuse to wear it or use it. It's stupid.
So trying to eliminate or prevent TBI with special padding or helmets or further research programs and any other damn piece of equipment DARPA can come up with is a good idea, and it is not destroying the masculinity of our troops.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
GaWarriorQueen and dogmanan protecting our military so they don't get injured is not turning them into pussies.

{snipish}


DARPA is designing all kinds of special protective and life saving equipment for our military, and it's not "macho" to refuse to wear it or use it. It's stupid.
So trying to eliminate or prevent TBI with special padding or helmets or further research programs and any other damn piece of equipment DARPA can come up with is a good idea, and it is not destroying the masculinity of our troops.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen is the "POLITE just among friends we respect " version of THAT lecture.

You don't want to hear the other version ESPECIALLY from a Master Chief.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Back in the early 1980s when I went to work for my "Uncle," part of my baseline physical was a hearing test. The examiner told me I had some measurable hearing loss, and said "You're a shooter, aren't you?" I was indeed. And there were no warnings about ear protection when I was younger.

That made me a believer - I have been very conscious of good ear (and eye) protection ever since. Current hearing protection is electronic, and can enhance normal hearing while shutting down loud noises.

For example - https://www.fullsource.com/howard-leight-r-01526/
 
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