[WAR] Pak & India update 1/17/02

Deb Mc

Veteran Member
http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/170102/dlfor15.asp



Possibility of war with India still looms large: Pak minister[/]b


AFP
Doha, January 17

A Pakistani minister warned here that war with India could still break out at any time and criticised the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) for not playing a role in defusing the crisis.

"India has been urged by everybody to de-escalate, to pull back forces, because the way the forces are, any incident can spark the war," Pakistan's Communications Minister Javed Ashraf told a press conference on Wednesday.

"So far the response has been arrogant. If they don't pull back the forces, the threat of war remains," he said after meeting with Qatar's emir, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani.

Ashraf criticised the 57-member OIC, of which Sheikh Hamad currently holds the rotating presidency. "I told him (the emir) about the disappointment with the OIC that prevails amongst the people of Pakistan for not doing anything to resolve the issues that are facing the Muslim world," he said.

"The organisation, if it has to be meaningful, has got to play a role in such disputes," like Pakistan's crisis with India, he said. "All we are asking is that the OIC should persuade both sides to de-escalate."
 

Deb Mc

Veteran Member
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/jan/17kiss.htm



Kissinger discusses Kashmir issue with Pant


The government's interlocutor on Kashmir, K C Pant, on Thursday met former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger and US Ambassador Robert Blackwill and discussed the Kashmir issue.

Though Kissinger maintained that there was no specific agenda for talks, official sources said that the US team discussed the Kashmir issue extensively, besides deliberating on the issue of de-escalation of tension on the Indo-Pak border.

The American team also discussed various measures initiated by the Centre and state governments to bring down the level of violence in Jammu and Kashmir.

"I have come to educate myself on a few facts about Kashmir, and there was no specific agenda of our talks with Pant," Kissinger told reporters.

Asked whether the situation at the Indo-Pak border was volatile, Kissinger, without referring to Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf's speech, said: "The situation concerns everybody, but I hope the atmosphere has improved since the weekend."

Kissinger said that he was completely on a private visit.

The Centre's interlocutor said that he had briefed the US delegation about the present situation in the state, besides highlighting the government's effort in bringing down the scale of violence.

Asked about Secretary of State Colin Powell's comment in Islamabad on Wednesday that he would give "certain ideas" to both New Delhi and Islamabad so that talks began, Pant said: "Well, his ideas are best known to him and we will see what he says."
 

2Trish

Veteran Member
(Fair Use: For
Morning all,

Note last sentence.

Educational/Research/Discussion Purposes Only)

17 January 2002 Thursday 02 Ziqa'ad 1422

Indian navy chief claims preparedness

NEW DELHI, Jan 16: India's navy is fully mobilized to meet any challenge from Pakistan - including a nuclear attack, the navy's chief said on Wednesday.
"All our ships at eight hours notice can travel 500 miles a day. Our ships are armed, fuelled and provisioned," Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Madhvendra Singh said while talking to reporters in New Delhi. But at the same time, there was no need for India to make an offensive foray in the Arabian Sea area, he said.
Regarding the possibility of a nuclear attack, Singh said: "Any country that espouses the doctrine of no-first use of nuclear weapons must have a second strike capability. We have a triad of weapons for a second strike and one of the triad is at sea."
While Singh did not give details about the weapons, he said the most powerful leg of the triad was the navy, "hidden, moving and under the water".-dpa\Reuters
 

mutter

Inactive
yes 2Trish, that is some stement. [there is a post on 1-16 pak/india thread from the naval head that he nuclear weapons have been placed on these subs too. fyi]

is is from yesterdays news, but i dont recall seeing it posted. looks like india has told annan to 'shove-it'.



Annan drops plans to visit India and Pakistan

AFP
United Nations, January 16


UN Secretary General Kofi Annan had hoped to visit India as well as Pakistan next week, but was unable to agree on a date with the government in New Delhi, his spokesman said on Wednesday.

Spokesman Fred Eckhard had earlier announced that Annan would pay a one-day visit to Afghanistan on January 25, between holding talks with government leaders in its two most influential neighbours, Iran and Pakistan.

While in Islamabad, Annan will confer with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, who currently faces a crisis in relations with India as well as fall-out from the collapse of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

Asked why New Delhi was not also on Annan's itinerary, Echkard said: "We had approached India about a visit, but we could not agree on dates."

But diplomats here said they believed India did not want to "internationalise" the dispute.


Annan visited India in March last year and said he was encouraged by talks with Indian leaders on seeking a resolution of their long-running territorial dispute with Pakistan over Kashmir.

At the time, Annan won plaudits from the Indian press for saying the dispute should be resolved on the basis of a 1999 accord between the two states rather than a 1948 UN resolution.

The UN resolution envisaged a referendum on the future of Kashmir, something that would be acceptable to Pakistan. India has refused to allow a plebiscite, insisting that Kashmir is an integral part of its territory.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/170102/dlfor11.asp
 

mutter

Inactive
this is all i could find on this so far. but boy it says alot to me! there is a pic at the link that shows these two shaking hands. tic-toc



Chinese President Meets Pakistani Guest



Xinhuanet 2002-01-17 09:14:47



Beijing, January 16, 2002 (Xinhuanet)-- Chinese President Jiang Zemin (L) meets with visiting Muhammad Aziz Khan, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee of Pakistan in Beijing on Wednesday January 16, 2002.--


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-01/17/content_241625.htm

[edited to add this

after digging a little deeper, i have found this. looks like there has been alot of meeting between pakistan mil. and china this week


Chinese PLA Chief of General Staff Holds Talks with Pakistan Guests



Xinhuanet 2002-01-15 21:27:45



BEIJING, January 15 (Xinhuanet) -- Fu Quanyou, Chief of the
General Staff of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) of China held
talks here Tuesday with General Muhammad Aziz Khan, chairman of
Joint Chiefs of the Staff Committee of Pakistan, who is paying a
visit here in China.

Fu said the military ties between the two sides is an important
component of the Sino-Pakistani relations and also a key sector
for an all-weather cooperative partnership between the two
countries. The Sino-Pakistani ties will be strengthened under the
utmost care of the leaders of the two countries and the joint
efforts of the two peoples.


Fu said that terrorism has posed a serious threat to the world'
s peace and stability, and all the people in the world are now
joining hands to combat terrorism. China has consistently stood
against terrorism in any form, and supports the United Nations to
play a leading role in the anti-terrorism campaign.

He also stressed that no country is allowed to practice
hegemony in the name of anti-terrorism.
[mutter: meaning U.S.?]

Fu said that China hoped Pakistan and India would ease the
current tension, seek solution through dialogue, and maintain
regional peace and stability.

Aziz said Pakistan and China have established an all-weather
friendship that has withstood the test of time. The two sides have
reached consensus on anti-terrorism issues, and the source of
terrorism should be found and eliminated.

He said Pakistan will play an active role in combating
terrorism. He also hoped that China could contribute to the peace
and stability in central Asia.


Aziz was here at the invitation of Fu. Enditem

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-01/15/content_239350.htm
 
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HeliumAvid

Too Tired to ReTire
http://www.reuters.com/news_article...EZSFEYKEEATIIWD?type=worldnews&StoryID=523853



<b>Bomb Explodes in Busy Market in Indian Kashmir</b>

By Ashok Pahalwan

JAMMU, India (Reuters) - A bomb exploded in a busy market in Indian-administered Kashmir on Thursday, killing one man in the first major suspected guerrilla attack since Pakistan began a crackdown on Islamic militants.

The blast coincided with the arrival in New Delhi of Secretary of State Colin Powell on a mission to defuse tension between nuclear rivals India and Pakistan, who have fought two out of three wars between them over Kashmir.

Eight other people were injured in Thursday's blast, three critically.

The makeshift bomb concealed in a drain exploded in the Kanakmandi market of Jammu, the winter capital of Jammu and Kashmir, where India is battling a 12-year-old revolt which it accuses Pakistan of fomenting.

"This was obviously a militant attack. No sane element would do this," a police official said in the Hindu-dominated region of the Muslim-majority state. "It was a powerful bomb...They chose the area to inflict maximum civilian casualties."

It was the biggest attack on a civilian target since militants drove into the grounds of India's parliament on December 13 and killed eight people in what New Delhi said was an attempt to wipe out the country's leadership. The five attackers also died in the assault.

The site of the Kashmir explosion was a short distance from the state government headquarters. Last October, guerrillas detonated a bomb outside the state assembly in Kashmir's summer capital of Srinagar, killing 38 people.

New Delhi, incensed over last month's attack on parliament which it blamed on two Pakistan-based guerrilla groups operating in Jammu and Kashmir, has ordered the biggest deployment of its armed forces on the border with Pakistan in over half a century.

WANTS ACTION

Islamabad, which has also mobilized its army, has begun a crackdown on religious extremists, but New Delhi has said it wants to see concrete action before pulling back its troops.

None of the more than a dozen guerrilla groups fighting Indian rule in the Himalayan region claimed responsibility for the latest blast.

"It was like lightning, followed by a big bang. After that I saw people running here and there," said witness Kishan Lal.

India has said all options, including war, are open if Islamabad does not end support for guerrillas fighting its rule in Muslim-majority Kashmir.

Earlier on Thursday, Indian soldiers killed three militants in the first big gun battle with rebels in the Kashmir Valley since Islamabad outlawed two frontline pro-Kashmiri guerrilla groups.

The militants belonged to the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba, one of the two groups which New Delhi says was behind last month's parliament attack.

Powell, flying into the Indian capital after brief visits to Pakistan and Afghanistan, said he saw a commitment on the part of both New Delhi and Islamabad to solve their crisis diplomatically and avert a war.
 

HeliumAvid

Too Tired to ReTire
http://www.indiaexpress.com/news/national/20020117-0.html



<b>Omar Abdullah, Malik bristle at early de-escalation demand</b>
19.00 IST 17th Jan 2002

By IndiaExpress Bureau

Minister of State for External Affairs Omar Abdullah and former Army Chief Gen V P Malik on Thursday strongly opposed early Indian n de-escalation on the border.

"We have been apologetic and defensive with regard to Kashmir for far too long. When Pakistan President Gen Pervez Musharraf talks about United Nations resolutions, he does not have a leg to stand on,? said Mr. Abdullah, who was participating in Karan Thapar's 'Line of Fire' programme on Sab TV.

Mr. Abdullah said Pakistan has not fulfilled even the first step of the UN resolution, which demands withdrawal of troops from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). "Rather, they joined parts of PoK into Pakistan," he said.

The minister made a pointed reference to UN Secretary General Kofi Annan?s remark that the UN resolutions were no longer relevant to the situation.

?I think it is something we have not used enough," the Minister opined.

Former Army Chief Gen V P Malik, the other participant, was of the firm view that there was absolutely no need for India to be on the defensive in articulating its position on Kashmir.

?There are many things, which ought to be known to the world (but) which are not. There is lack of awareness on those issues," Mr. Malik said.

Mr. Abdullah disfavored de-escalation of troops on the border as demanded by Pakistan. "We would like to see the steps (taken by Musharraf) on the ground. De-escalate we will, but as per our own time frame and as per how we see the situation emerging,? asserted the Minister.

He also opposed early talks with Islamabad as advocated by the US. "We are not talking,? maintained Mr. Abdullah.

India, he averred, would talk to Pakistan only after there is a marked change in the ground situation. He also insisted on Pakistan handing over terrorists most wanted by India.

He did not agree with US Secretary of State Colin Powell's suggestion that India begin immediate talks. "Perhaps, we do not see the situation that way?.

?We did not escalate tensions after asking the US. We have not put this pressure (military build-up) and taken the diplomatic initiative after seeking their concurrence and we certainly do not need to take steps after they say so. We will take whatever steps are necessary as per the situation as we see it emerging," maintained the Minister.

He said India would continue to keep a degree of pressure, diplomatic and otherwise, on Pakistan till it sees distinct signs of improvement in the situation in Jammu and Kashmir and beyond.
 

HeliumAvid

Too Tired to ReTire
http://www.indolink.com/News/Main/news_011702_035711.html



<b>India "Thinking" Of Acquiring Russian Stealth Bomber To Upgrade MiGs: Report</b>

New Delhi, Jan. 17 (NNN) : The Indian Air Force (IAF) is reportedly considering to add Stealth modifications to its MiG-21B fighters in order to upgrade them to MiG-21-93 standard, the Jane?s Defence Weekly reported in its latest issue.

The recommendations in this regard were made by the Russian Aircraft Corporation after trials 18 months ago at Sokol aircraft plant in Nizhniy Novgorod in Russia, during which Russian Stealth capabilities were showcased to Indian defence ministry officials.

On May 29, 2000, a series of demonstration flights were conducted at the Sokol airfield ? co-located with production facilities for MiG-29 (?Fulcrum?) and MiG-31 (?Foxhound?) fighter-interceptors.

The purpose of the trials was to demonstrate the effectiveness of radar-absorbent materials (RAM) and coatings developed at the Moscow Institute of Applied and Theoretical Electrodynamics, the weekly said.

A total of 125 IAF MiG-21Bis are being upgraded under the MiG-21-93 programme, which is being carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in co-operation with Sokol Nizhegorodsky Aviastroitelnyi Zavod AO (Sokol Nizhniy Novgorod Aircraft Manufacturing Plant JSC) under a $340 million contract of 1996.

The principal features are modernised avionics suite that includes the Phazotron Kopyo multi-mode radar and the ability to utilise advanced air-to-air and air-to-ground ordnance, the weekly said.

Items cleared by November 2000 under proof of compliance testing carried out by the Russian Air force included the Vympel R-77 medium-range active radar homing and R-73 short-range infra-red homing air-to-air missiles, as also the Zvezda-Strela Kh-25MP andanti-radiation missile and the TV-guided KAB-500Kr precision-guided munition.

The first two Russian-upgraded examples of the MiG-21-93 were delivered to India in late 2000, while the remaining 123 fighters will be upgraded at HAL?s plant in Nasik utilising equipment sets supplied by Russia. The first indigenously upgraded MiG-21-93 ? known locally as the MiG-211, carried out a successful first flight at Ojhar airport, near Nasik, on August 31, 2000.

Russia is not alone in promoting stealth technology to the IAF. In 1996, the Composite Material Research Laboratory in Hyderabad claimed to have developed ?stealth? enhancements ? most likely RAM tiles and surface wave-absorbent sprays - for IAF Jaguar strike aircraft, the report said.

The modifications were reportedly adopted on two Jaguar squadrons and were also being considered for the Mirage 2000, MiG-29 and the MiG-21-92.

Initial operational clearance for a 12-aircraft trials unit of MiG-21-93s is scheduled for the end of this year, with the programme currently running three years behind its original schedule.
Jan 17, 2002
 

Redeye

Inactive
Under Fair Use from <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58170-2002Jan16.html">The Washington Post</a>:

<center><b><font size="+1">For India, Deterrence May Not Prevent War</font></center></b>

By Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, January 17, 2002; Page A01


NEW DELHI, Jan. 16 -- After India and Pakistan startled the world by testing nuclear devices in 1998, the leaders of both nations insisted that their mutual possession of nuclear weaponry would deter them from going to war in the same way it ultimately did for the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

Now, that thinking appears to have vaporized in India. Senior officials have said they are actively considering sending troops across the border should Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, fail to follow through on his pledge to crack down on Muslim extremists that India accuses of terrorism. Over the past month, India has deployed hundreds of thousands of soldiers, along with heavy artillery and short-range ballistic missile batteries, along its border with Pakistan.

Although Pakistan has warned that any Indian military action would bring a forceful response, India's leaders appear undaunted. They say a conventional conflict between the two nations would not necessarily spiral into a nuclear exchange, suggesting that the Cold War deterrence theory applies differently to South Asia in the 21st century than it did to the superpowers of the 20th century.

That attitude has alarmed diplomats and nuclear weapons specialists, who worry that the rival nations, which have fought three wars since becoming independent in 1947, are playing a dangerous game that could quickly escalate out of control. Nuclear strikes on South Asia's most populous cities would kill tens of millions of people. And unlike the United States and the Soviet Union, which had up to 30 minutes to react to a suspected nuclear missile launch before impact, India and Pakistan would have less than eight minutes, given their proximity.

<u>Nevertheless, an Indian official said military planners are confident that a war between the two nations could be limited to a short, nonnuclear fight.</u> "We would not resort to nuclear weapons," the official said. "And we do not envision striking [Pakistan] in a way that would lead them to use their nuclear weapons."

Officials and analysts said that if India chose to go to war, it almost certainly would not mount a broad attack on Pakistani positions along the countries' 1,800-mile border. Instead, they said, India would focus its strikes on guerrilla training camps and military facilities that it believes are used by extremists.

"There is scope for a limited war," said India's army chief, Gen. Sunderajan Padmanabhan.

The aim of such a war would not be to capture and hold territory, but to convince the Pakistani government that support for terrorist organizations can have dire consequences, Indian analysts said.

<u>These analysts said Indian commanders believe that selective strikes across the border likely would trigger a strong response from Pakistan, but not a nuclear volley.</u>

"There is a growing feeling that we will not be deterred by the nuclear shield of Pakistan," said Commodore Uday Bhaskar, deputy director of the Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis, a research organization affiliated with the Indian military. "India's way of looking at this is that we're not threatening Pakistan's core interests, so they would have no incentive to launch their nuclear weapons."

India has pledged not to use its nuclear weapons first in a conflict. Although Pakistan has not made the same commitment, Pakistani officials have said they do not envision a war morphing into a nuclear confrontation.

"It's something that I think one should not even consider," said Maj. Gen. Rashid Qureshi, Pakistan's chief government spokesman. "Pakistan and India are responsible nations."

Western military analysts estimate that India has 50 to 100 nuclear warheads, while Pakistan has 30 to 45. Both nations possess short-range missiles that are capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

For Pakistan, nuclear weapons have helped to make up for a significant disadvantage in conventional forces. India has more than 1.3 million active-duty soldiers compared with more than 600,000 in Pakistan. India also has more than a 2 to 1 advantage in combat aircraft as well as significantly more tanks, artillery and ships.

Indian military leaders have said they do not fear Pakistan's nuclear arsenal because they believe that India, given its geographic size, could weather a first strike from Pakistani missiles, which do not have the range to hit India's southern and eastern cities. They also contend that India would survive a first strike with enough of its warheads intact to mount a retaliatory attack that would hit all of Pakistan's major cities, which are within range of India's missiles.

"We could take a strike, survive and then hit back," Indian Defense Minister George Fernandes said in a recent interview with the Hindustan Times. "Pakistan would be finished."

As a consequence, Bhaskar said, Pakistan would not use its nuclear weapons unless an Indian military strike was so severe that Pakistan's survival as a nation was threatened. "It would be like committing suicide," he said.

<u>Analysts said Indian commanders also have been emboldened to engage in a conventional war by a 1999 invasion by Pakistani-backed guerrillas in the Kargil mountains, along the Line of Control that divides Kashmir into Indian- and Pakistani-controlled portions.</u> In that conflict -- the largest clash between any two nuclear powers and the first major bout of fighting between the countries since the 1998 nuclear tests -- analysts said Pakistan reasoned that it could engage in battles along the border and that India would not mount a large-scale retaliation because of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

"The last two and a half years have given [New] Delhi time to reflect upon the lessons of Kargil," said Brahma Chellaney, a professor of security studies at the Center for Policy Research in New Delhi. "India has realized that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are useless for anything other than blackmail."

Now, he said, <u>Indian leaders have decided that "they will not be blackmailed."</u>

Despite the bellicose talk in New Delhi, analysts said, the fact that Pakistan has nuclear weapons has tempered India's military plans. Instead of raising the prospect of a full-scale conventional war, with ground forces rumbling into Pakistan, officials here have described the military action under consideration as "targeted" and "limited."

"Nuclear weapons have pushed the level of conflict down in South Asia," said Stephen P. Cohen, a specialist on the subcontinent at the Brookings Institution. "Both sides are exploring the fuzzy lines between a very low-intensity conflict and a conventional war."

The two nations are intimately familiar with low-grade war. For the past several years, Indian and Pakistani troops have traded small-arms and artillery fire across the Line of Control. In recent months, the level of fighting has escalated dramatically, with each side reporting double-digit casualties every few days.

"They've had years of sub-conventional conflict," said a Western diplomat in New Delhi. "To an extent, they know how to fight a limited war."

Even so, nuclear weapons specialists said they are concerned by reports that both countries have made their nuclear-capable ballistic missiles ready for prompt use. Western intelligence agencies also have noticed an above-average level of activity at nuclear installations in both countries, but analysts said that could be the result of efforts to redeploy and safeguard weapons, which are believed to be stored unassembled during peacetime.

"The danger is not that either side intends to use nuclear weapons, but that a miscalculation could occur that leads to their release," said Joseph Cirincione, the director of the nonproliferation project at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "We may be in a situation where nuclear warheads are being assembled and moved. That raises the possibility of an accident. If that happened, would the country that experienced the accident know what happened? Might they interpret it as a strike and retaliate?"

Officials in both countries dismiss chances of an accidental launch, saying they have taken multiple safety precautions. But several nuclear experts said they are not convinced those measures will work.

"India has not fought a full-scale war with a nuclear-armed Pakistan before," said Praful Bidwai, co-author of a book titled "South Asia on a Short Fuse."

"Given the history of these two nations, any conflict can easily get out of control," he said. "People who think we don't need to worry about nuclear weapons are living in denial."


© 2002 The Washington Post Company
 

HeliumAvid

Too Tired to ReTire
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/jan/17jk2.htm

<b>Unmanned Indian reconnaissance
vehicle shot down by Pakistan</b>

Josy Joseph in New Delhi

An unmanned reconnaissance vehicle of the Indian
security forces was on Thursday shot down by
Pakistan troops and crashed in Kathua district in
Jammu and Kashmir, defence sources said.

The vehicle was on a reconnaissance mission along the Indo-Pak border
when it was shot down. It crashed somewhere in Kathua district in the
Indian side of the border.

This is probably the first time that an Indian reconnaissance vehicle has
been shot down in the course of the current spell of Indo-Pak tensions.

However, the ministry of defence has officially denied that any such
incident took place.
 

HeliumAvid

Too Tired to ReTire
<b>War with India could break out at any time: Communications minister - DOHA</b>

Jan 17: A minister warned today that war with India could still break out at any time and criticised the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) for not playing a role in defusing the crisis. "India has been urged by everybody to de-escalate, to pull back forces, because the way the forces are, any incident can spark the war,"

Communications Minister Javed Ashraf told a press conference. "So far the response has been arrogant. (AFP) (Posted @ 09:55 PST)
 
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