GUNS/RLTD U.S. Senator Calls Out "Death Sentence" For Veterans

[day late]

MSN

U.S. Senator Calls Out "Death Sentence" For Veterans

Story by Claude Wooten • 17h

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) shouted out what he called “bad news” on a “terrible new gun policy” that’s “buried in the appropriations bill being voted on this week.”

The rider, tucked into $467.5 billion spending bill by House Veterans' Affairs Chairman Mike Bost (R-IL) and his Senate Veterans' Affairs Chairman Jon Tester (D-MT) also drew notice from the White House, which regretted its inclusion but pushed for Congress to pass the bill.

Murphy says the new provision ends three decades of legislation that curtailed gun ownership by mentally ill veterans, warning that the new appropriations bill allows “veterans judged by the VA to be mentally incompetent to buy guns.”

Murphy asserts that the bill would increase the danger that mentally unfit veterans pose to others, as a tragic mass shooting in Maine last fall painfully demonstrated, but also potentially the danger to themselves.

“These are very very mentally ill veterans,” Murphy writes, “those at the highest risk of suicide.”

Tester sees it from the other side, calling the provision a “win for Second Amendment rights and for veterans who have made it clear that VA's current practice is pushing some folks away from accessing the mental health care they need out of fear their firearms will be seized."

Veterans who have been found by the VA to be mentally unfit and unable to take care of their finances have been banned from purchasing firearms. If the bill passes, these veterans will have the opportunity to ask a judge to decide.

“This provision – which could result in 20,000 new seriously mentally ill individuals being able to buy guns each year – will be a death sentence for many,” Murphy says.

Murphy is in an unusual position, having at first voted for the bill he now castigates, saying he’d been “hopeful [he] could later eliminate or modify the provision.” Now he says: “I was unsuccessful and now I cannot vote for final passage. Not with this many lives in the balance.”

 

[WildDaisy]

Why would anyone put something like that as an earmark in another bill. (I mean I know why, to sneak it past and increase likelihood of it passing). But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

 

[The Mountain]

The issue with preventing "mentally ill" veterans from owning firearms is that the Left is demonstrably willing to deem someone "mentally ill" simply for holding an opinion they don't like.

There absolutely are veterans who struggle with mental illness, and some probably should be prohibited from owning firearms, but blanket prohibitions are a dangerous method for providing that protection because there's a large segment of the US population, and far too many politicians, who will twist such blanket prohibitions to suit their agendas. Remember, that segment of the population is the same one that wanted people fired from their jobs, their kids taken away, and then sent to camps or even executed just for not taking an untested gene-based injection.

 

[day late]

The issue with preventing "mentally ill" veterans from owning firearms is that the Left is demonstrably willing to deem someone "mentally ill" simply for holding an opinion they don't like.

There absolutely are veterans who struggle with mental illness, and some probably should be prohibited from owning firearms, but blanket prohibitions are a dangerous method for providing that protection because there's a large segment of the US population, and far too many politicians, who will twist such blanket prohibitions to suit their agendas. Remember, that segment of the population is the same one that wanted people fired from their jobs, their kids taken away, and then sent to camps or even executed just for not taking an untested gene-based injection.

Gainesville is a very liberal town. I have heard folks around here swear that if you served, you MUST have PTSD. Never mind you were a clerk that never left The States. You served, you need mental help.

 

[gjwandkids]

Another unintended consequence of the legislation is that veterans who are politically conservative and may be struggling with PTSD will be less likely to seek help for fear that they'll be tagged mentally ill and unable to own a fire arm. Which has the effect of making it MORE dangerous not less. Besides, if someone really wants to end their life they don't need a firearm to do it.

 

[Luddite]

You served, you need mental help.

They try to throw extra money at veterans. A Vietnam era veteran in our family literally had them putting words in his mouth. Dragging him down a path to increase his money.

He didn't foresee the possibility that his 2A rights would be affected until I pointed it out.

This is more about perception and semantics. Jmo

 

[Luddite]

Another unintended consequence of the legislation is that veterans who are politically conservative and may be struggling with PTSD will be less likely to seek help for fear that they'll be tagged mentally ill and unable to own a fire arm

Pending and current "Red flag" legislation creates a perfect storm for "weaponization". Pun intended.

 

[subnet]

Gainesville is a very liberal town. I have heard folks around here swear that if you served, you MUST have PTSD. Never mind you were a clerk that never left The States. You served, you need mental help.

The left always project

 

[Dobbin]

But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

As it is now the law "licenses" the Veterans Administration to evaluate you and call you unfit to own a weapon.

As it is now it could be:"You're a veteran? You take blood pressure medicine? Yunno, certain medicines can affect one's mental outlook. The VA Doctor has deemed you as a threat to society because of your meds and we're going to pull your guns. Yunno - to protect the children."

For non-veterans who don't partake in the VA, a "committal" is required - and the threshold for committal is (or has been) very high. Taking ALL of one's rights USED to be rarely done and requires a formal independent psychological evaluation, court hearing and order.

The bill inclusion SORT OF puts Veterans to the same standards of mental fitness as the rest of the population.

Dobbin

 

[Blue 5]

Stories like this are why I refuse to use the VA for any of my health care.

 

[rs657]

It boils down to who should make the determination of who is mentally ill and to what extent and if government bureaucrats should make the determination or through due process rights via a judge.

The VA is so screwy that you could be seen by five different people at the VA and get five different opinions.

The VA is not part of the legal system and shouldn't make binding legal decisions on its own.

Here is a blog with more information:

Is the VA Coming For Your Guns?

Is the VA Coming for your Guns if you get PTSD treatment? No...but many Vets are sure the VA coming for your guns when you get a so-called "Brady Letter"...

www.veteranslawblog.org

 

[Wildweasel]

Why would anyone put something like that as an earmark in another bill. (I mean I know why, to sneak it past and increase likelihood of it passing). But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

VA has been ruling that anyone who needs assistance in handling their finances is mentally unfit to own firearms. VERY BIG difference in needing help with finances and being mentally unfit to own a firearm.

 

[Greenspode]

Why would anyone put something like that as an earmark in another bill. (I mean I know why, to sneak it past and increase likelihood of it passing). But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

Because mental illness does not automatically mean violent. PTSD does not automatically mean violent either. This shaming of mentally ill people, and trying to convince everyone that it means someone is not to be trusted, has been going on for way too long in this country. It has certainly been one of the more successful propaganda/brainwashing exercises TPTB have engaged in, and it has clearly been designed to convince the public that the big, bad, veterans are "dangerous". They have done it well.

 

[mistaken1]

Why would anyone put something like that as an earmark in another bill. (I mean I know why, to sneak it past and increase likelihood of it passing). But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

From the article:

Veterans who have been found by the VA to be mentally unfit and unable to take care of their finances have been banned from purchasing firearms. If the bill passes, these veterans will have the opportunity to ask a judge to decide.

 

[Ractivist]

As always, you've all cut to the chase and detailed the truths behind such actions. It's about disarming the nation, with emphasis on the one's who have the most experience in combat. They work so many battle fronts.

 

[Illini Warrior]

VA has been ruling that anyone who needs assistance in handling their finances is mentally unfit to own firearms. VERY BIG difference in needing help with finances and being mentally unfit to own a firearm.

there's freaking horror stories of just this "financial" part of the "mentally ill" judgement >>> they were disavowing gun ownership of veterans that used a freaking tax preparer for their IRS filing - they wanted to go full scale sweep using IRS records and cross referencing veterans - Purge Time ....

 

[Illini Warrior]

As always, you've all cut to the chase and detailed the truths behind such actions. It's about disarming the nation, with emphasis on the one's who have the most experience in combat. They work so many battle fronts.

you know for sure when this is more confiscation than just disavowing firearms ownership >>> when they block the simple transfer by selling or just giving the firearms to a relative/friend - they WANT THOSE GUNS GONE !!!!!

 

[bracketquant]

If someone wants a gun bad enough, they will get it no matter the law.

For career criminals in jail, when interviewed on how they get their guns, the rate of illegally buying a gun is about 95%.

 

[Griz3752]

Why would anyone put something like that as an earmark in another bill. (I mean I know why, to sneak it past and increase likelihood of it passing). But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

Because the Marxists-in-Power will do anything to trigger as many firearms-related deaths as they can to help build their case for Licensing of all owners and tracking all sales ala the system commonly used through out the British Commonwealth to disarm those populations.

PERIOD.

 

[Countrymouse]

MSN

U.S. Senator Calls Out "Death Sentence" For Veterans

Story by Claude Wooten • 17h

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) shouted out what he called “bad news” on a “terrible new gun policy” that’s “buried in the appropriations bill being voted on this week.”

The rider, tucked into $467.5 billion spending bill by House Veterans' Affairs Chairman Mike Bost (R-IL) and his Senate Veterans' Affairs Chairman Jon Tester (D-MT) also drew notice from the White House, which regretted its inclusion but pushed for Congress to pass the bill.

Murphy says the new provision ends three decades of legislation that curtailed gun ownership by mentally ill veterans, warning that the new appropriations bill allows “veterans judged by the VA to be mentally incompetent to buy guns.”

Murphy asserts that the bill would increase the danger that mentally unfit veterans pose to others, as a tragic mass shooting in Maine last fall painfully demonstrated, but also potentially the danger to themselves.

“These are very very mentally ill veterans,” Murphy writes, “those at the highest risk of suicide.”

Tester sees it from the other side, calling the provision a “win for Second Amendment rights and for veterans who have made it clear that VA's current practice is pushing some folks away from accessing the mental health care they need out of fear their firearms will be seized."

Veterans who have been found by the VA to be mentally unfit and unable to take care of their finances have been banned from purchasing firearms. If the bill passes, these veterans will have the opportunity to ask a judge to decide.

“This provision – which could result in 20,000 new seriously mentally ill individuals being able to buy guns each year – will be a death sentence for many,” Murphy says.

Murphy is in an unusual position, having at first voted for the bill he now castigates, saying he’d been “hopeful [he] could later eliminate or modify the provision.” Now he says: “I was unsuccessful and now I cannot vote for final passage. Not with this many lives in the balance.”

"found by the VA to be mentally unfit and unable to take care of their finances"

Since WHEN does the VA have oversight over deciding who gets what based on how folks "take care of their finances"?

By THAT rule--most blacks (the largest portion of those defaulting on Home loans in the great crash of 2005ff-) can't "take care of their finances."

Ergo--goes back to me saying (a pipe dream, I know, but it sure would help things 'if' it could happen) that if they want to deny gun ownership to some segment of the population, they should deny it to blacks--or at least ANY black with ANY kind of record of being in trouble with the law.

But of course they won't--they're too busy trying to de-arm the blacks' victims...........

 

[Countrymouse]

there's freaking horror stories of just this "financial" part of the "mentally ill" judgement >>> they were disavowing gun ownership of veterans that used a freaking tax preparer for their IRS filing - they wanted to go full scale sweep using IRS records and cross referencing veterans - Purge Time ....

(Wild Weasel quote--won't "insert"): VA has been ruling that anyone who needs assistance in handling their finances is mentally unfit to own firearms. VERY BIG difference in needing help with finances and being mentally unfit to own a firearm.

Good grief! MOST corporations use CPA's to handle/file their annual taxes, and most of the rich OWNERS of those corporations do as well (I'm not talking Elon Musk or huge companies here, but the neighborhood small business whose owner has assets in the millions-of-dollars range and has a country-club membership)

 

[Blacknarwhal]

Gainesville is a very liberal town. I have heard folks around here swear that if you served, you MUST have PTSD. Never mind you were a clerk that never left The States. You served, you need mental help.

They don't even need THAT fig leaf. Disagreeing with them is "oppositional defiant disorder," and a mental illness now.

 

[nomifyle]

Being a veteran with my health care and a small pension from the VA I will never need their help with my mental health. My mental health is fine and if I have an issue with it I go to God in prayer. They ask me all kinds of questions that I weigh carefully before answering, it only takes a second to do that. They can pound sand.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Why would anyone put something like that as an earmark in another bill. (I mean I know why, to sneak it past and increase likelihood of it passing). But why would you want to back mentally ill people of any walk of life to be able to own a gun?

I agree. If someone has been arrested for violent crimes, especially arrested more than once (it would depend on circumstance for the first one, who hasn't wanted to throw a punch in their life?); but mentally ill, those constantly harassing others, yelling screaming threats, etc; I wouldn't want an armed neighbor like that around me; that is mental instability. Arm em' up only after the revolution starts

 

[Groucho]

Think about it; "They" know that veterans really, really know how to use firearms. Even the clerks and cooks. "They're" really scared of veterans cause we're violent and totally unpredictable. Even the doctors and the photographers. And all veterans have PTSD. Even the laundry types and truck drivers. "They" know that every one of us were on Seal Team Six and are liable to go off if somebody sounds a car horn unexpectedly.
If ya want my opinion, it's the cooks and photographers ya gotta watch. They're a dangerous bunch. Wild they are.
Take their guns before it's too late.

 

[Wildweasel]

(Wild Weasel quote--won't "insert"): VA has been ruling that anyone who needs assistance in handling their finances is mentally unfit to own firearms. VERY BIG difference in needing help with finances and being mentally unfit to own a firearm.

Good grief! MOST corporations use CPA's to handle/file their annual taxes, and most of the rich OWNERS of those corporations do as well (I'm not talking Elon Musk or huge companies here, but the neighborhood small business whose owner has assets in the millions-of-dollars range and has a country-club membership)

Most people with 6-figure and higher incomes use tax preparers, if not full-time financial managers to handle all their financial issues. A lot of them are gun owners who could bring a political shitstorm upon the VA if they were targeted.

Go after congressman X's donor base and he'll jump square into the VA's shit. Multiply by all the small business owner millionaires and their congressmen and the VA has to back down.

Little known trivia: In the US the vehicle most often owned and driven by millionaires is not an expensive sports car or luxury vehicle. It's a Ford F-150, because most millionaires in the US are small businessmen who use a pickup truck in the course of their work.

 

[Wyominglarry]

If you go into the VA and tell them you cannot sleep. The doc will ask you a bunch of questions and will conclude you are depressed. Once you have it recorded in your medical file that you are depressed it is only a short step to telling the feds you are not mentally well and cannot own a gun. Even if you have sleep apnea the doc will think this guy is depressed. Well if you are not sleeping well it can make anyone feel sad and depressed. Stay the hell away from the VA.

 

[crossbowboy]

Most of the 'mentally ill' veterans that I've known have overwhelming numbers of friends and family willing to straw purchase if/when needed.

 

[Elza]

Stories like this are why I refuse to use the VA for any of my health care.

Yup! That, and their level of medical care truly sucks! I'm not only a vet but I retired from the V.A. I feel sorry for those stuck with having to use the V.A.