PREP Turning your vehicle into a rolling fortress.

Seabird

Veteran Member
I can't help feeling that if things do break fast and get messy, it won't be hunkering down, at least at first. It will be life goes on through the thick of it. Sometimes you still have to go to work in a hurricane... as any nurses, fire and police folks will tell you. In my job, at lease initially, I will be traveling the 20 miles round-trip every day. Which means there'll still be income--though probably less than it is now. So, I have been looking at turning my vehicle into a rolling fortress...at least in theory. My biggest protection is the Lord, but being equipped onboard would be a plus.

I love westerns, and often think about families traveling through Indian territory with all their belongings on their back like slow moving turtles. Aside from rifles, what did they do? Travel in numbers and circle the wagons against the poison arrows; be self-sustaining to the best of their ability, etc.

This is modern day, and we have discussed car bob's, etc., but what do we do to fortify?
 

Seabird

Veteran Member
:lol: Wish that was an option! Good suggestions, though!

But how do we turn our current vehicles into safe modes of transportation?

There may be a simple idea from someone here who might save lives once the SHTF.

I like the idea of traveling in squads. I have an employee who lives near me and who travels as I do to the same place. You'd think it would be smart to carpool (saving gas) but if one gets into a jam, there's another vehicle to get away from the jam.

Things like this just seem smart to consider right now.

And I'm sure there are other ideas...
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
So if TSHTF and there is litle or no $$ and little or no employment at really low wages how are you going to gas it?

I think options are two three...

Walk.

Horseback

Mad Max World

as far as traveling.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
HOrseback tough - all this does is present a higher target.

Worked real well in the era of sabers and pikes though. One could approach on horseback at high speed before the sword or pike bearer had time to respond.

Brown bess kind of outmoded mounted infantry for a while relegating horseback to command and communication. And even there the threat was felt: how many commanders had their horses shot out from under them? (Ugh!)

I just hate to see carnage.

Dobbin
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
:lol: Wish that was an option! Good suggestions, though!

But how do we turn our current vehicles into safe modes of transportation?

There may be a simple idea from someone here who might save lives once the SHTF.

I like the idea of traveling in squads. I have an employee who lives near me and who travels as I do to the same place. You'd think it would be smart to carpool (saving gas) but if one gets into a jam, there's another vehicle to get away from the jam.

Things like this just seem smart to consider right now.

And I'm sure there are other ideas...

:D that was just the extreme of my example, basically you have two ways you can go, Fast, Light with max firepower as in the top two fighting vehicles or Slow, Heavy & Amoured as in the lower two,
Take the British Army Landrover 110, take off the doors and roof & side panels, add a roll cage, beef up the standard engine and you have a WMIK which is based on the original SAS Pink Panthers - Pinkies, the idea is if you meet any trouble you lay down a massive barrage of covering fire and exfil the area as fast as possible ( or advance on the enemy depending on the situation)
with the Snatch Landrover the purpose was totally opposite, the vehicle was designed to carry a Snatch squad (hence the name ) into council estates (section 8 housing) in Northern Ireland to make an arrest of suspected paramilitaries, beefed up suspension, kevlar panels and steel mesh window coverings,

both processes can be added to your own vehicle you just need to decide which option would suit your situation better, obviously you'd be using steel panels inside your vehicle instead of kevlar if you chose the armoured route and you wouldn't be adding belt fed mg's if you went the recon vehicle route but adapt and improvise,
steel mesh over your windshield, steel panels inside, heavy duty suspension, or strip out non needed seats, carpets & sound proofing etc, make it as light as possible, cut off the roof and reinforce with steel tubing roll cage, a tube bending machine can be hired fairly cheaply,

definitely move in convoy, 2 or 3 vehicles maybe a dirt bike on point to recon

read up on how the spec ops operate, particularly the LRDG and the SAS and British Army operations in Northern Ireland,
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
HOrseback tough - all this does is present a higher target.

Worked real well in the era of sabers and pikes though. One could approach on horseback at high speed before the sword or pike bearer had time to respond.

Brown bess kind of outmoded mounted infantry for a while relegating horseback to command and communication. And even there the threat was felt: how many commanders had their horses shot out from under them? (Ugh!)

I just hate to see carnage.

Dobbin

Horse-the original 4x4.

Who says one needs to ride on the road?

Any good injun knows how not to silhouette themselves on horseback.

Plus worse comes to worse...yer dinner. :D

So it would beHOOVE you to keep the rider safe. :p
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Awhile back I bought a new set of tires mounted on their own rims,
plus all tire fixing kit, for my pick-up. I remembered stories of back
when Pearl Harbor happened, those few who ran out and promptly
got themselves an extra set of new tires were very glad for it later.

Armoring up a vehicle can be such a major undertaking, most won't.

Something most all could have for quick deployment as needed, that
might be just the edge you need getting through ambush, is this here...

Tactical-Ballistic-Blanket-ON-CAR-DOOR.jpg


- Shane
 

NoName

Veteran Member
Ya can't sandbag a Equinox and still have ground clearance...at all. Approx $12K to do the blanket thing, maybe the used armored car isn't such a bad idea.
 

Tristan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Seabird,

I think the question of cost/benefit comes into play. If the trip is so potentially dangerous, how much income is going to be 'worth it' to run the gauntlet every day? As well, the cost of fuel comes into play; a fully armoured vehicle isn't what anyone could call fuel-efficient... Is 4mpg a reasonable trade off for the income produced? Only the particular employee can tell, I guess.

Perhaps 'Agile' with some security upgrades might be an option? Something like a Jeep Cherokee 4x4, either roll-flat tires or tires treated to be self-healing, a stout brush guard, skid plate and radiator protection... Keep it it tip-top running condition so you can trust your life to it.

Something built up a bit to enable you to go around, over or through whatever the problem might be, and get far enough away so it's no longer a threat.

Just a thought.

Anyone know if there are replacement windows that are shatterproof for standard auto doors/windshields?
 

buttie

Veteran Member
Just thinking outside the box here, but perhaps the best route to take is to armor the occupants of the vehicle. If the situ is that bad you'll want be wearing personal armor anyway.
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
You would be surprised how fast a thick telephone book can stop a bullet.

.22 magnum can penetrate five inches of wet phone book, .223 ball ammo can go through about eight inches of wet phone book, or a kevlar helmet at 100 yards.

A phone book will definitely stop a bullet. It needs to be thick enough, that's the trick.
 

Shea Grey

Membership Revoked by Request
here's my baby, Toyota Hilux, choice of insurgents the world over, takes a licking, keeps ticking.

CR%20Hilux%20ifs%204in%20lift%2033%20tyre%200329%20ir%2060%20lead.jpg



Guerrilla Trucks
Why rebels and insurgent groups the world over love the Toyota Hilux pickup as much as their AK-47s.


As the war in Afghanistan escalated several years ago, counterinsurgency expert David Kilcullen, a member of the team that designed the Iraq surge for Gen. David Petraeus, began to notice a new tattoo on some insurgent Afghan fighters. It wasn’t a Taliban tattoo. It wasn’t even Afghan. It was a Canadian maple leaf.

When a perplexed Kilcullen began to investigate, he says, he discovered that the incongruous flags were linked to what he says is one of the most important, and unnoticed, weapons of guerrilla war in Afghanistan and across the world: the lightweight, virtually indestructible Toyota Hilux truck.

“In Afghanistan in particular,” he says, “[the trucks are] incredibly well respected.” So well respected, in fact, that some enterprising fraudsters thought them worthy of ripping off. The imitations, Kilcullen says, had flooded the market, leaving disappointed fighters in their wake. But then “a shipment of high-quality [real] Hiluxes arrived, courtesy of the Canadian government,” he explains. “They had little Canadian flags on the back. Because they were the real deal, and because of how the Hilux is seen, over time, strangely, the Canadian flag has become a symbol of high quality across the country. Hence the tattoos.”


It’s not just rebels in Afghanistan that love the Hilux. “The Toyota Hilux is everywhere,” says Andrew Exum, a former Army Ranger and now a fellow of the Center for a New American Security. “It’s the vehicular equivalent of the AK-47. It’s ubiquitous to insurgent warfare. And actually, recently, also counterinsurgent warfare. It kicks the hell out of the Humvee.” Anecdotally, a scan of pictures from the last four decades of guerrilla and insurgent warfare around the world—the first iteration of the Hilux appeared in the late ’60s—reveals the Toyota’s wide-ranging influence. Somali pirates bristling with guns hang out of them on the streets of Mogadishu. The New York Times has reported that the Hilux is the pirates’ “ride of choice.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/09/world/africa/09pirate.html) A ragtag bunch of 20 or so Sudanese fighters raise their arms aloft in the back of a Hilux in 2004. Pakistani militants drive through a crowd, guns high, in 2000. It goes on. Nicaragua, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Liberia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq—U.S. Special Forces even drive Toyota Tacomas (the chunkier, U.S. version of the Hilux) on some of their deployments. (Click here for a gallery of Toyota trucks in conflict-torn regions.)

While Taliban leader Mullah Omar reportedly likes to roll in a Chevy Suburban and Osama Bin Laden is said to have preferred the Hilux’s bigger brother, the Landcruiser, when he was able to move freely, most Al Qaeda lieutenants drive Hiluxes, according to a New York Times report from the early 2000s (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/23/automobiles/23CARS.html?ex=1007597645&ei=1&en=3e9587e2804040f8) . Even today, says Kilcullen, “It’s a bit of a sign you’re dealing with Al Qaeda when you come across them in Pakistan. They use the twin-cab version, because you can carry people and stuff in the back, and also mount a heavy weapon in the pickup.”

The truck even has a war named after it: the so-called “Toyota War” between Libya and Chad in the 1980s was dominated by fighters using the light, mobile Hilux. Indeed, Africa, says Kilcullen, is where the truck got its nickname as a fighting vehicle, “the technical.” “When [nongovernmental organizations] and the U.N. first went into Somalia,” he says, referring to a period in the 1990s, “they were not able to bring their own guards. So they got so-called ‘technical assistance grants’ to hire guards and drivers on the ground. Over time, a ‘technical’ came to mean a vehicle owned by a guard company, and then eventually to mean a Hilux with a heavy weapon mounted on the back.”

The Toyota is such a widespread and powerful weapon for insurgents, says Dr. Alastair Finlan, who specializes in strategic studies at Britain’s Aberystwyth University, because it acts as a “force multiplier.” It is “fast, maneuverable, and packs a big punch [when it’s mounted with] a 50-caliber [machine gun] that easily defeats body armor on soldiers and penetrates lightly armored vehicles as well.” It is particularly dangerous, he adds, against lightly armed special-forces operatives.

An experiment conducted by British TV show Top Gear in 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkedyQZfwQ) offers one explanation. The show’s producers bought an 18-year-old Hilux diesel with 190,000 miles on the odometer for $1,500. They then crashed it into a tree, submerged it in the ocean for five hours, dropped it from about 10 feet, tried to crush it under an RV, drove it through a portable building, hit it with a wrecking ball, and set it on fire. Finally they placed it on top of a 240-foot tower block that was then destroyed in a controlled demolition. When they dug it out of the rubble, all it took to get it running again was hammers, wrenches, and WD-40. They didn’t even need spare parts.

The Hilux was originally designed, says Kevin Hunter, president of Toyota’s design division in California, as “a lightweight truck with big tires on big wheels. It was meant as a recreational truck, a truck people could have fun with. They also have a really high ground clearance, which means they’re ideal for off-road work.”

They have always been built, says Hunter, as “body-on-frame” trucks: “There’s a rigid steel frame construction, and the body is fitted on top of that. That’s much stronger that most modern cars, where the body and frame are one. I would describe them as bulletproof. We get people who run them for years. There are 200,000 or 300,000 miles on them and they’re still going.” But Hunter admits he doesn’t know why Hiluxes are so popular with guerrilla forces; many other manufacturers’ trucks, he says, are also body-on-frame.

Kilcullen, who has faced forces using the Hilux in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq, says the vehicle’s longevity is a factor, as is the high ground clearance. “They cover the ground incredibly well,” he says. They are often used by insurgent forces as “a modern version of light cavalry. They move weapons into positions to fire, and can also shift people around very quickly, with a quick dismount. The Hilux is perfectly designed for that. I’ve seen 20 people and a mounted weapon on one.”

A former British special forces soldier, who asked not to be identified because he still consults on active operations, says he too has faced the Hilux, which he refers to as “the technical,” in both Iraq and Afghanistan. “I’d say the appeal is pretty simple,” he says. “You can’t underestimate the value of having a vehicle that is fast, will never break down, and is strong enough to mount a heavy weapon in the back.”

Exum, who has seen the Hilux in action across the Middle East, says the Toyota’s status is self-perpetuating. “Because everyone uses them, there are parts easily available, and mechanics everywhere know how to fix them. That kind of feeds on itself,” he says.

The New York Times piece on Mullah Omar’s car (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/23/automobiles/23CARS.html?ex=1007597645&ei=1&en=3e9587e2804040f8) also noted that during Taliban rule in Afghanistan, the Hilux and its larger sibling the Landcruiser “provided ideal platforms for intimidation and enforcement.” The Taliban rode around “ready to leap down and beat women for showing a glimpse of ankle or to lock a man in a shipping container for three weeks until his beard grew to the approved length. Or, most dismal, to drag an accused adulterer or blasphemer to the soccer stadium for execution.”

Some of the Canadian-flagged Hiluxes, says Kilcullen, have almost certainly ended up in Taliban hands this time around. Here’s hoping that history doesn’t drive back around in a Toyota.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-hilux.html
 

Shea Grey

Membership Revoked by Request
Choice of SF in the sandbox as well...
Militarytacorandy2.jpg

lmao.........them are my kinda guys! .....the bro in the back, right vehicle, it ALMOST looks like, he's got a barrett...but naw....what makes me laugh, the thought of them pulling up to some stateside gas station, and the screen asks, "would you like our special Carwash today?....YES or NO?......hahahhahahhahhah.....'naw but if you got a bottle of tequilla, rum or scotch, we're in"
 

LeViolinist

Veteran Member
My Dream B-O-Mobiles
The 2nd one is most practical.
 

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shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Surviving an ambush, in a vehicle or as a foot patrol, requires immediate return fire & movement.

Something to hopefully get attackers heads down as you're getting out of their intended kill zone.

In a vehicle, you've got to either be so over the top badass nobody wants to screw with you or
just the opposite where you'll be underestimated and they'll then be lax.

Ambushers of a vehicle that did not look armored, but a family car with kids bike atop, might be
better suited to repel attackers when they're surprised by massive coordinated return firestorm
erupting from out of it.

- Shane
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
Surviving an ambush, in a vehicle or as a foot patrol, requires immediate return fire & movement.

Something to hopefully get attackers heads down as you're getting out of their intended kill zone.

In a vehicle, you've got to either be so over the top badass nobody wants to screw with you or
just the opposite where you'll be underestimated and they'll then be lax.

Ambushers of a vehicle that did not look armored, but a family car with kids bike atop, might be
better suited to repel attackers when they're surprised by massive coordinated return firestorm
erupting from out of it.

- Shane

Q ships :groucho:
 

paul d

Veteran Member
:lol: Wish that was an option! Good suggestions, though!

But how do we turn our current vehicles into safe modes of transportation?

There may be a simple idea from someone here who might save lives once the SHTF.

I like the idea of traveling in squads. I have an employee who lives near me and who travels as I do to the same place. You'd think it would be smart to carpool (saving gas) but if one gets into a jam, there's another vehicle to get away from the jam.

Things like this just seem smart to consider right now.

And I'm sure there are other ideas...


My only ideas would come from watching old A-Team episodes.


The things B.A could do with a welding gun......
 

Txkstew

Veteran Member
I've been thinking of getting some Lexan panels. They come in really thick panels. 2" or better are not cheap. It's what some stores use for bullet proof windows around the cashier's booth. A few years ago, I found a source on line.
 

Seabird

Veteran Member
:lol: Thank you all for both the serious and not so serious suggestions. (Dobbin... going off-road on horseback would entangle me with gators and snakes...and that makes me think mobs and terrorists may not be so bad! :D )

Actually, it would have to be in what I drive now... and with little or no fortification.

I am more concerned with car-jackings for the gas, mobs, etc. And I won't be going anywhere when there's no gas to be had. But in the meantime, I wanted to prep for this interim time-period.

I did hear in passing about a film you can put over your glass that somewhat deters flying objects. Not bullets, I'm sure... but being conditioned to hurricanes, a film can at least keep window glass from shattering while you are driving. I have a pretty good SUV, good on all terrain and surprisingly good on gas mileage. The sides of the doors are high due to side airbags, so there is actually a little more protection there.

Anyway, as always, you guys are great. Keep 'em coming.
 
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