WAR Topic For Discussion? War/Russia/Ukraine - who's right, who's wrong - who should people support?

Haybails

When In Doubt, Throttle Out!
In the fog of war confusion runs rampant. Many members of the younger US population are woefully uneducated about world politics, Eastern European conflict and (specifically) Ukrainian/Russian relations and the current unfolding war.

So, just curious if anyone wanted to bring out their opinions and discuss? Feel free to enlighten members of TB2K on your thinking.

In your opinion:
  • Who's right vs. Who's wrong?
  • Which side in this conflict should American's support?
  • How does this play with the general opinions here on TB2K?
  • Other related topics?
Just looking for everyone's discussion - leave the specific conflict news reporting to the other thread.

HB
 

drafter

Veteran Member
I feel bad for Ukraine but ultimately it’s the fault of the US and Nato that we chose to ignore Russia’s security concerns. We’ve been Russia Russia Russia for a long time now. They had to figure at some point Russia would get tired of it all. Self fulfilling prophecy brought to you by our idiot politicians, who I suspect are enjoying their lobster with a side of caviar and some fine wine in a taxpayer funded bunker.
 

dstraito

TB Fanatic
Ukraine was created to be a money laundering hub for the DS
It is steeped in corruption as shown by Hunter and Joe
There are many Russians inside the disputed territory
What would we do if Russia put a bunch of troops on the Mexican border?

Brandon is war mongering, probably to get rid of corruption evidence

IMHO, we have no business being over there, especially seeing how inept the Afghan withdrawal was
 

mourningdove

Pura Vida in my garden
Russia is the aggressor here. Russia is the invading force. Russia is bombing Ukraine. I have yet to hear anything from Putin that justifies his actions. I cannot support Russia in this. I do not want to see another world war but we may be forced into one. Did the world learn nothing from Hitler?
 

Hognutz

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I feel bad for Ukraine but ultimately it’s the fault of the US and Nato that we chose to ignore Russia’s security concerns. We’ve been Russia Russia Russia for a long time now. They had to figure at some point Russia would get tired of it all. Self fulfilling prophecy brought to you by our idiot politicians, who I suspect are enjoying their lobster with a side of caviar and some fine wine in a taxpayer funded bunker.
Ditto!
 

Vegas321

Live free and survive
Everyone is wrong. Politicians, companies, and men like Soros. Got us in this mess.
Putin has no right to invade, obviously.
What is a bad sign, is Russian soldiers raising Russian flags over government buildings.
We are just here for the ride. Prepare.
 

Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior
everybody knows Putin has started his "roll" - and - they are on his list >>> both Sweden & Finland are attending NATO meetings and most likely will end 100s of years of neutrality & self independent defense ....

the Slav contingent of NATO is having their own confab to discuss helping Ukraine >>> they are next in line for a Putin invasion - Belarus has officially gave up it's independence and joined Russia ....
 

Raffy

Veteran Member
I agree with most of the comments already stated. I do believe that we (the USA) should stay out of this conflict. We really have no stake in it. Some people say that, well, oil and other energy prices will skyrocket and that we therefore need to be involved (apparently to bring those prices back down). I disagree with that; I'd say instead that we should go back to the policies of the Trump administration and move the US back in the direction of energy independence (which we actually achieved during the last administration for the first time since 1957). Let's stay out of this war and take care of ourselves! America first when it comes to domestic and foreign political policies.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
This is one of those horrific, long-term, multi-generational conflicts that have no "good" side. Right now, Russia invading the whole place rather than just making the Russian-speaking/traditionally Russian areas officially part of Russia again (or satraps) makes them the aggressor.

However, when people say "NAZI's IN Ukraine" those who are aware of things, know that isn't hyperbole, it is completely real. Some of the guys in the ultra-nationalist militias that support the current government (and some previous ones) took their Grandfather's old NAZI Ukrainian SS division Uniforms out of the closet and were wearing them. They also used SS symbology for some of their units.

Their grandfathers joined the SS originally because, in the 1930s, Russia had starved millions (and I do mean millions) of Ukrainians to death - that's that "Holdamore" thing people keep mentioning as well as forcibly relocating a lot of the population many of whom never made it home.

On the other hand, I saw chilling films of the current government (when it was new) allowing some of the "militias" to enter the Russian areas of what was supposed to be their own "nation" and terrorizing kindergartners and their parents (someone had their phone on record). A goon in camo walks up to a little girl whose five years old and says "Ah, her name is Misha, that's a Russian name" then he pinches her cheek hard and looks at Mom, "She has a Russian name, she should not have such a name she is in Ukraine, change her name or go to Russia."

The report cut off as the child looks too terrified to even cry and the mother (and other parents) are in shock - it is the custom in Eastern Europe, especially the Slavic countries for parents to go with their kids on the first day of school. Those goons knew exactly what they were doing.

Both sides are reported to have committed atrocities, both sides have killed civilians at different times and while historically there has been "A" Ukraine for quite some time, the modern boundaries are pretty modern.

So the answer is (to me) is there is no "right" side, this is a big shifting mess. On the other hand, Putin/Russia moving in to take over the entire place and also attacking Moldova does make them the aggressor in this current round of tit for tat.

It also remains to be seen if they will "settle" for Ukraine, either making part of "Russia" again or just installing a puppet government and making it a member of the "Federation," of the new Russian Empire. Or if they will continue on towards other countries and if they attack NATO, it all goes way out of control and yep, Russia sadly becomes the enemy.

Something I hoped never to see in my lifetime.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Don't care just stay out of it. Europe has been evolved in wars for hundreds of years.
Well, the sad part is the US did promise the Ukrainians that if they gave up their nukes after the fall of the Soviet Union they would be protected and defended if they were ever invaded.

Obviously, that was a promise the US never thought they had to keep nor probably intended to keep in the first place (and no I don't want US troops in Ukraine either).

As for NATO countries, there is this pesky mutual defense treaty if Russia "goes there" the US has to either be involved or their word is then worth less than Russia's (which is pretty low right now).
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
I remember Hillary Clinton had her hand in there along with a number of her close cronies that worked for her foundation.
Then Joe Biden son had gotten into along with Joe himself with giving them a pile of our tax doller$.
There is a lot more that was saying all the Ukraine political system was corrupt.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The only reason we will be going to war is to cover up the big guy and son's crimes. And Hilary and Bams...They can say it's about defending Ukraine's right to independence, but we all know the bitter truth of it. As I've stated before, that's the wrong reason to go to (possibly nuclear) war.

The US is too weak and divided at the moment for any hope of victory. More of the best and brightest and some more of the Whitest (sigh) are going to be sacrificed to this fool's errand. We have enough problems trying to preserve our own nationhood here- stay home. Isolationist, some have called it.

The astrology is not very forgiving now. In fact, it is the very same as it was in 1776. We either put our America back on track, or it will be the spoils in somebody else's war.
 

Westexian

Contributing Member
We have lied to and screwed Russia ever since the Iron Curtain fell. Why didn't NATO dissolve after that? It's sole purpose was to protect against COMMUNIST aggression. And look up a map that shows our bases practically in a ring around Russia. Would we tolerate the reverse? Not to mention the promise not to expand NATO "not one cm east".

And how many countries have we destroyed in the last 30 years? Serbia (our allies in both WWs), Iraq, Libya, Syria (almost, but the RUSSIANS put a stop to it), and many more. Russia knows that they are on the list.

And we overthrew an honestly elected government that had just made the decision to pivot more towards Russia instead of W Europe (a common sense and natural development) and installed a puppet so we could rape and plunder and later install our bases.

Russia is protecting Russia. Our fault. I feel sorry for Ukraine, but they have unfortunate geography much as Poland.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
If the biolab thing is true, that will severely adjust my matrix.

I still think that Russia is in the wrong, but taking out rogue biolabs would be a plus. If they are really there, I couldn't imagine a scenario where the Russians would leave them standing, out of just the intrinsic risk of their existence, or if somebody used the materials therein as a hail mary attack.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
How much money do the other nations in UN and NATO owe the US currently? What about unpaid war reparations owed to us from WWI and II? What about moneys we have given to "allies" over the years? How much have we given other nations to shut up and not rock the boat over the years? How much war materiel and toys have we donated so far and not asked for payment?

That's quite a list if you took time to add it all up. If this entire bloody business is about sheckels and dollars and rubles, and yuan and not lives- I for one believe we've contributed enough already. And NATO is in no shape to hold us to Article 5. We, as divided as we are at the moment, are in no shape to respond.
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
How much money do the other nations in UN and NATO owe the US currently? What about unpaid war reparations owed to us from WWI and II? What about moneys we have given to "allies" over the years? How much have we given other nations to shut up and not rock the boat over the years? How much war materiel and toys have we donated so far and not asked for payment?

That's quite a list if you took time to add it all up. If this entire bloody business is about sheckels and dollars and rubles, and yuan and not lives- I for one believe we've contributed enough already. And NATO is in no shape to hold us to Article 5. We, as divided as we are at the moment, are in no shape to respond.

Would be nice to receive what’s owed. However, this is THE opportunity for deadbeats to call it “good,” and wipe their hands of us. Who’s gonna enforce payments, reparations? Nope, we, and the rest of the world, are good and screwed.

OA
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
In answer to the question, who’s to blame? Those who’re pulling the strings. Soros is just the visible sign, but certainly not the puppet master. If you find the asshole, or assholes, make a list of who’d like to pull the trigge on ‘em. Nationally, it’s Russia, China, Iran, and the usual suspects. Suggestion? Kill ‘em all.

OA
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Who is right, who is wrong? Counterproductive at this point. My opinion is that the oligarchs are orchestrating this for the excuse for the global financial/economic reset and will use this to scare people to death to further their aims. I may be right, I may be wrong but it doesn’t matter.

You, I and all of us have to deal with the repercussions regardless of where responsibility falls. If you are not ready right frickin now for the bottom to drop out and for this to turn to crap then shut off your computer and get to work because you really don’t have any time to waste.

If it should turn to sheiss you may have only hours to get what you need before people panic. We ’could’ have a cyber or grid event to be blamed on the Russians and it could be them or it could be a three letter agency FF event. Who knows? Probably won’t happen and things might settle down again by the weekend but then again who knows? Don’t get caught with your pants down and don’t wait until the herd panics.

If you’re all squared away fine and dandy, if your not get it done while people are standing around not knowing how far this is going to go.
 

Ku Commando

Inactive
Sumpin' hinky happened with the 2014 coup.....then the Bidens been doin' dirty deeds ever since

I'm w/ Putin on this one !!

1199.png
 

SSTemplar

Veteran Member
Ukraine was created to be a money laundering hub for the DS
It is steeped in corruption as shown by Hunter and Joe
There are many Russians inside the disputed territory
What would we do if Russia put a bunch of troops on the Mexican border?

Brandon is war mongering, probably to get rid of corruption evidence

IMHO, we have no business being over there, especially seeing how inept the Afghan withdrawal was
Couldn’t nave said it better.
 

anna43

Veteran Member
I have no idea who is to blame. However, I do firmly believe that it is totally hypocritical for our government to become involved in a border dispute when they refuse to enforce our own southern border. Better clean up our own house before we get involved with anyone else's mess.

I personally feel that Biden knows he's in the dumpster with the American people so is willing to send our young men and women to die on foreign soil in order to deflect from his dumpster ratings. Also, due to the financial crisis we're in another war could expedite the crash of our economy which I'm sure Putin is hoping will happen. Biden is the problem for the USA not Russia or Ukraine.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
FJB! And Putin isn't our friend, either. I have zero problems with Russian and Ukraine citizens: they aren't my enemy, nor am I theirs.

We all just want to be left alone to live our lives with as little government interference as possible, and that includes corrupt Ukraine politicians. Basically, all governments could use some major house cleaning.
 
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Rabbit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Ukraine was created to be a money laundering hub for the DS
It is steeped in corruption as shown by Hunter and Joe
There are many Russians inside the disputed territory
What would we do if Russia put a bunch of troops on the Mexican border?

Brandon is war mongering, probably to get rid of corruption evidence

IMHO, we have no business being over there, especially seeing how inept the Afghan withdrawal was
When Putin is finished taking over Ukraine he might just hand over the evidence against the Bidens. Kind of an in your face FJB.
 

greysage

On The Level
Well, the sad part is the US did promise the Ukrainians that if they gave up their nukes after the fall of the Soviet Union they would be protected and defended if they were ever invaded.

Obviously, that was a promise the US never thought they had to keep nor probably intended to keep in the first place (and no I don't want US troops in Ukraine either).

As for NATO countries, there is this pesky mutual defense treaty if Russia "goes there" the US has to either be involved or their word is then worth less than Russia's (which is pretty low right now).

Our own country has broken more than promises to her own people. We owe Ukraine or any other country nothing. And we certainly cannot afford it either.

The USA has no integrity now and an illegitimate SCROTUS. We need to stay out of it.
 

WalknTrot

Veteran Member
Right or wrong...I don't care much. As one of the "little people", this half-a-world-away fustercluck is out of my hands and always has been.

My job is to keep the "stuff" from rolling over my little corner of the planet. Plan to stay alert, flexible and do the best I can against the tide.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Let me put it to you like this:
I DESPISE JB.....AND EVERYTHING HE IS AND REPRESENTS!!
How would YOU feel if Russia installed nuke missiles on the border of Mexico and in Cuba??

Should Russia feel ANY DIFFERENT, with NATO pushing onto the borders of Russia???

This ENTIRE mess has been PLANNED AND CREATED ......just like the PLAN-DEMIC to DESTROY America. And yours truly, JB is behind ALL OF IT.....AND OBUTTHOLE AND HITLERY, and MOST OF CONGRESS ARE also in it UP TO THEIR EYEBALLS!!
 

jward

passin' thru
Things are going on far above my paygrade, and without knowing them I cannot begin to give any kind of answer that is worth my time to type or yours to read; having said that, though, there is always enough blame to go around, no? And things are never black and white, except on cable TV and internet discussion forums- most places they're acknowledged to be a billion shades, give or take a million, of grey.
 

annieosage

Inactive
IMHO, we have no business being over there, especially seeing how inept the Afghan withdrawal was

Let's stay out of this war and take care of ourselves! America first when it comes to domestic and foreign political policies.

Our own country has broken more than promises to her own people. We owe Ukraine or any other country nothing. And we certainly cannot afford it either.
The USA has no integrity now and an illegitimate SCROTUS. We need to stay out of it.

Don’t worry about defending another country’s borders, when you won’t defend our borders.

Agree 1000% with the above comments.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
There are B-52s over Poland
and
US Command Authorities being delivered to bunkers.

There really isn't much to discuss.
Here in Tulsa the news is continuously streaming winter weather.
The forecast is for cold. sleet, with a possibility of canned sunshine later in the afternoon.
 
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