PREP Thinking of feeding the have-nots when SHTF?

[twincougars]

I have this ongoing discussion with DW about our stored food and what to do when hungry neighbors and 'outsiders' show up asking for food. She feels that as long as we are able, we should feed them (I read that, we should be "good" people). I tend to think we should turn them away, saying we have only a few days limited resources for ourselves. Here's what can happen when you start giving away food, and then the supply runs out, or you decide to stop. People that didn't prep feel entitled to your food.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011...ing-after-occupy-group-splatters-blood-urine/
SoCal Street Cart Vendors Hurting After ‘Occupy’ Group Splatters Blood, Urine

November 7, 2011 2:14 PM

387 comments

(credit: ROBYN BECK/AFP/Getty Images)




SAN DIEGO (CBS) — A pair of Southland street cart vendors who were forced to shut down their businesses after “Occupy” protesters vandalized their carts are hoping to get some help from local residents.

KNX 1070′s Tom Reopelle reports a fundraiser in the Gas Lamp district in San Diego on Monday night is aimed at helping two vendors get back on their feet. The coffee and hot dog carts were located in Civic Center Plaza, the same location as the Occupy San Diego protesters.

That group first settled in to the plaza Oct. 7 and set up a tent city which has since twice been taken down by police.

Coffee cart owner Linda Jenson and hot dog cart operators Letty and Pete Soto said they initially provided free food and drink to demonstrators, but when they stopped, the protesters became violent.

And according to one city councilman, bodily fluids were used in the attacks.
“Both carts have had items stolen, have had their covers vandalized with markings and graffiti, as well as one of the carts had urine and blood splattered on it,” said Councilman Carl DeMaio.

The damages will likely require at least a complete cleaning if not a replacement of the cart covers, DeMaio said.

In addition to the attacks, the vendors also said they recently received death threats.

Proceeds from the fundraiser will go directly to help the two business owners.
After a relatively peaceful start, the “Occupy” movement has sparked violent clashes with police in Oakland and recently saw protesters push an elderly woman down a flight of stairs in D.C

 

[Jeff Allen]

It all depends on the situation...is this likely to be a short term situation? If so, it would seem just and moral to provide humanitarian aid as you are able to while being mindful of ones responsibility to your OWN FAMILY FIRST.

A long term situation? Say, all our worst nightmares....nationwide grid down? The only folks eating then are shooters. Period. Let us pray that day NEVER comes....even those few who will "survive"...won't...at least not by "civilized" standards.

J

 

[Perpetuity]

I operate by the old standard of "a lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part". Harsh and cold? Maybe. But on the other hand see the above for an example of entitlement. And when one person finds out that you have for food for you and yours, then a couple of days later it turns into a hundred that think you have food for them after the word spreads and they will take it at whatever means is necessary.

I don't claim to have any great insight to the world going to hell or any secret resources, but I do have common sense to put back for a "rainy day". Because someone chooses not to prepare for the worst I owe them absolutely nothing. Will I help my neighbors and friends? Of course. Will I provide for them? Nope.

 

[Dex]

Many of us have sacrificed much over the years to prep instead of buying new TVs and computers like the "have nots" were buying with cash or mostly credit. I've gone without all the fancy new bells and whistles of technology and I'm an IT guy so that's saying a lot I think. I only just got a smart phone a couple of months ago.

Also, I help the true have nots every chance I get in my daily life now. I won't have any problems turning people away that are not family.

The so called have nots have been warned over and over again, they've seen things like Katrina unfold in front of their very eyes, if they haven't done SOMETHING about it by now, they deserve to a degree what they get.

The parable of the ant and the grasshopper is the best way to illustrate this.

 

[Richard]

you've got to ask yourself would they provide for you

one man's altruism is another man's selfishness.....

furthermore what does OWS seek to achieve and by what means?

 

[dstraito]

It may seem harsh but a person who prepared, planned a supply of a year of food for his family of four could see that food disappear in a matter of weeks once the neighborhood discovers he has food. A years worth of food gone in weeks because you wanted to be compassionate.

What about compassion for your loved ones. Your food runs out you will be in the same hat-in-hand boat the rest of the group is in.

Isn't the reason you prep to buffer the effects of a bad event for your family?

You can't prep for everyone, where would you stop. Five houses down on each side of your street? The block? The subdivision? The east/west/north/south quadrant of your city? Your city?

When a store runs out of food in 3 days, what makes anyone think they can make a difference to anyone other than their immediate family?

Wouldn't it seem more responsible to at least give a few people (your family) a shot at surviving instead of providing a meal or two for a lot of people and then everyone perishes?

If you take the position that you will feed any who need it then you will fail. You might as well not even prep which not surprisingly, a majority of the people when asked this ethical dilema that took the position they would feed all who needed it were NOT preppers, they were grasshoppers.

As far as people feeling entitled to it, certainly the people protesting and expecting to be fed are members of the entitlement philosopy and would expect whatever anyone had to be given to them.
I think as far as neighbors, they wouldn't feel entitled necessarily unless they were liberal leftists, but would still come to you for help. Where it would get dicey is when they get desperate to feed their family, desperate times call for desperate measures and who here wouldn't do whatever it took to feed their family? Which is the whole point of prepping.

 

[Palmetto]

Many of us have sacrificed much over the years to prep instead of buying new TVs and computers like the "have nots" were buying with cash or mostly credit. I've gone without all the fancy new bells and whistles of technology and I'm an IT guy so that's saying a lot I think. I only just got a smart phone a couple of months ago.

Also, I help the true have nots every chance I get in my daily life now. I won't have any problems turning people away that are not family.

The so called have nots have been warned over and over again, they've seen things like Katrina unfold in front of their very eyes, if they haven't done SOMETHING about it by now, they deserve to a degree what they get.

The parable of the ant and the grasshopper is the best way to illustrate this.

^ ^ ^
+1,000,000

 

[Flippper]

When your food is gone, it's likely gone for good, unless you can grow a garden in your basement. If you have a basement. You can have food enough for 1 person for 4 years or food enough for 4 people for one year. 8 people, 6 months. There will be no more agriculture, the crops would be raped before they could be harvested by any entitlement person or starving human with the ability to reach them. Those grocery shelves won't be stocked again for years-never if the globalists who are behind the collapse of the economy pretty much world wide, GMO's and Agenda 21 have anything to say, their goal is mass extermination of nearly every human on earth. That means us. I don't like that plan and I don't like them so plan on poking a bony finger into their eyes by surviving. Giving your food and preps away to those who had the same, usually better, opportunities to have what you do will only get you dead sooner.

I've told everyone I know to grow a garden, go to the local grocery that carries bulk and freeze dried foods and stock up as much as possible. That ends my survivor guilt right there. Not one has done a thing, perhaps they think they'll just mosey on over to the trailer hood and get my grub. Good luck with that, dumbass.

 

[LightEcho]

Very good question and one that needs to be thought out carefully.

If you make it known you have even a two day supply to someone who has not eaten in 4 days, you placed a target on your back. If they are moving along and you do the kind thing and feed them, how many other travellers might they inform of your provisions?

Care for family first. Neighbors who ridiculed you for being a nut... well, they will be a risk if they know you prepped. Start considering what they might be able to barter in exchange for your provisions. If they cannot provide an equal value (by your new standards) tell them you have nothing for them. The well's gone dry.

Neighbors you can trust- you still need to establish a barter system to maintain your wealth. Take gold, silver, fuel, work, etc.... in exchange for food. Don't give your household away.

Be ready to defend. No preps are helpful if you don't have lead and powder to keep the zombies away.

I already see desperation saetting in.... in my area that is far removed from the sity riff-raff. Burglary is increasing here. Surveillance is crucial. Good guard dog helps. Get familiar with traps... booby traps and sensors.

Now, back to the question.... feed any hungry that come along? Pray that you get divine guidance in who you befriend and take in. Once you feed them, you own them. If you send them off, you condemn them and you. Once you start, you will not be able to stop until you are empty. If that is your plan, you are in trouble.... unless you are wealthy enough to store tons of food away.

Oh- one more thing. Be creative. If you want to give someone food. Tell them that you know where they can get some. Drop a small package at a hidden place and then they only know that one place.... NOT your home
stead.

 

[undead]

I've seen the zombie shows, and I'm pretty sure that's how it's going to work out.


.

 

[joyfulheart]

will I??? == most people, yes.
I am surrounded by sick and elderly. Yes, I will feed them.

 

[Straycat]

No matter how well you have prepared, no matter how good your intentions... in a SHTF scenario, feeding those not in your group will mean death for your family. It's that harsh and that simple.

Anyone outside your group who finds out you have ANYthing will want it. Desperation leads to barbarism, like it or not, and the desperate will not be willing to share. They will take everything, usually by violent means. You will end up having nothing, and people will likely die in the process.

When TSHTF, you can survive or you can be a "nice" person. You can't do both. And remember, your choice will directly impact your loved ones, not just you. You'll have to decide what's more important - their survival or you adhering to "civilized" principles.

 

[Kronos]

I read a post in here some time ago where someone suggested
that you lay in some repulsive or cheap bulk foods for those who KNOW you have prepped,
and let them think that THOSE ARE your preps.

This for folks who can not unsay what might have already been let out to others regarding personal prepping.

 

[bad_karma00]

No, I'm not. I don't have the resources. It's all I can do to prep for my family, including nephews and nieces. I will not take food from their mouths to give to people who thought the latest Iphone, flat screen, or car/truck was more important that providing for themselves and their families. I can't.

 

[Kathy in FL]

Stewardship is not socialism. God gives us responsibilities. If He means for you to help some one he will give you a way to do it ... open doors, etc. On the other hand He gave you your family to care for. Imagine a man - a head of the house - that had a wife and a couple of children that he was responsible for - but every pay check he gave it all away, or maybe just most of it away rather than applying it to the responsibilities that God had given him. Was he being generous or was he being careless and thoughtless?

A lot of the question can be answered by asking why are you doing something? Is God leading you to do something or are you doing it because you are expected to? Is it a heart thing, a head thing, or an ego thing?

 

[Gitche Gumee Kid]

This is not the first time this subject has been discussed. I agree with the majority . Take care of your own. Send the entitlement crowd away. This the part of the scenario that also needs a pre-planning strategy. What believable story do you spin to the have nots and ill prepared?

GGK

 

[Turret Buster]

Let the gummint feedem'. Gummint takes care of everything. Right?

 

[Cruiser]

In a short term event (hurricane) yes I would "help". In a long term, no. I would respond with "do you know where we can get some food?" Probably won't work but if it gets bad enough I don't plan to be "available" to ask...

 

[truthseeker]

What would Jesus do? Any other standard need not to apply.

 

[The Freeholder]

I am taking care of me and mine. Want to be taken care of? You'd better figure out how to be one of "mine". Otherwise, you fall into the category known as "looter". AKA "target".

 

[Longbow]

will I??? == most people, yes.
I am surrounded by sick and elderly. Yes, I will feed them.

And seal your own doom in the process.

 

[Turret Buster]

The old saying "Ass, Gas or Grass, nobody rides for free" comes to mind. Sorta sick when its comes to this thread. Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Magdalen]

Seeker-after-Food: Got anything to eat?

Me: (accompanied by my burly son or farm manager) What can you do?

Seeker-after-Food: Huh?

Me: What … can … you … do?

Seeker-after-Food: Uh … ?

Me: Any special talents? Skills? Can you use a hammer? Ever build anything that stayed standing?

Seeker-after-Food: I built a tree fort once as a kid.

Me: Okay. (Handing the Seeker-after-Food a long list or various repairs to be done, maintenance jobs, farmwork, etc.) Go talk to the farm
manager, and he’ll show you what to do. You can start at the top of the list. Dinner’s at 7:00.


If they take the list, go see the farm manager, and get to work, they get fed. If they stare at me like I’m loco and tell me to go F* myself, they will be escorted kindly but firmly off the property (and yes, I will be carrying as will my son or farm manager). “He who would not work should not eat.”

It means either our community will add people with willing hearts or useful skills and gain in strength, or I and my community will end up as martyrs of charity. Those are my choices if things really get as bad as some expect.

magdalen

 

[Thunderbird]

The Government is going broke trying to feed the indigent. What makes anyone think they can. Those that do will be out of food and join those without in a matter of days.

 

[arbilad]

I plan to take things on a case by case basis. Anyone who comes as a thief will be treated as a thief. Anyone who comes begging will be treated on a case by case basis.

Truthseeker, it is indeed a very good standard to ask what Jesus would do. However, you ask the question as if the answer is obvious. In my mind it isn't. One example - most people have the means to store at least some food, even if it is only buying a few more cans each trip to the grocery store. Most don't. Could that not be compared to the servant in the parable who was given a talent to use and improve, but did nothing with it, and that talent was taken away?
Here is another example. At one point a group was following Jesus, because He had provided food to the multitudes on two separate occasions and they wanted free food. At that time, He didn't provide food, but told them to value the spiritual nourishment that He was giving them. Could He have provided food to everyone again? Absolutely. But He chose not to on that one occasion. To me that says that the situation is not clear cut.

 

[twincougars]

What would Jesus do? Any other standard need not to apply.

Well Jesus allegedly could produce food and wine out of practically nothing. If you can do that, than you can apply his standard to yourself. The rest of us have to grow, raise or buy our food, not zap it into existence.

 

[Garryowen]

Well, I guess we will do what we can to help neighbors, but it will require them to probably adjust their tastes radically. We do have some stuff that we don't regularly eat, just to give away. But we have deliberately chosen to store dried foods, beans, rice, lentils, barley, wheat, that require effort to prepare. The MacDonalds crowd probably wouldn't be interested.

And I agree. There will always be wood to cut and split, and things that need repaired or maintained. A couple hours of work would be good for a hot meal -- until we ran out of fuel.

I wouldn't have a problem turning away thugs. Honestly needy people of good character, that's another matter. Each case needs to be evaluated on its merits.

regards,

Garryowen

 

[Delta_Force]

Keep quiet about what you have and get out in the "food and bread" lines with everyone else. That will help keep what you have secret, everyone will think you are in the same boat with them. You have to remember everyone that will come to you for help, has friends and family they will tell about you. The other thing that scares me more is if people don't know what you have, they can't be pressured by the powers that be for information about you. What they don't know, they can't tell.

 

[Kathy in FL]

What would Jesus do? Any other standard need not to apply.

But what does that mean exactly? Jesus didn't feed his followers at every meal. Every day was not feeding the 5000.

The following is just one instance where the issue of laziness is dealt with in the New Testament:

2 Thessalonians 3

Those Who Are Lazy
1-3One more thing, friends: Pray for us. Pray that the Master's Word will simply take off and race through the country to a ground-swell of response, just as it did among you. And pray that we'll be rescued from these scoundrels who are trying to do us in. I'm finding that not all "believers" are believers. But the Master never lets us down. He'll stick by you and protect you from evil.
4-5Because of the Master, we have great confidence in you. We know you're doing everything we told you and will continue doing it. May the Master take you by the hand and lead you along the path of God's love and Christ's endurance.

6-9Our orders—backed up by the Master, Jesus—are to refuse to have anything to do with those among you who are lazy and refuse to work the way we taught you. Don't permit them to freeload on the rest. We showed you how to pull your weight when we were with you, so get on with it. We didn't sit around on our hands expecting others to take care of us. In fact, we worked our fingers to the bone, up half the night moonlighting so you wouldn't be burdened with taking care of us. And it wasn't because we didn't have a right to your support; we did. We simply wanted to provide an example of diligence, hoping it would prove contagious.

10-13Don't you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? "If you don't work, you don't eat." And now we're getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you. This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don't slack off in doing your duty.

14-15If anyone refuses to obey our clear command written in this letter, don't let him get by with it. Point out such a person and refuse to subsidize his freeloading. Maybe then he'll think twice. But don't treat him as an enemy. Sit him down and talk about the problem as someone who cares.

16May the Master of Peace himself give you the gift of getting along with each other at all times, in all ways. May the Master be truly among you!

17I, Paul, bid you good-bye in my own handwriting. I do this in all my letters, so examine my signature as proof that the letter is genuine.

18The incredible grace of our Master, Jesus Christ, be with all of you!

 

[White970]

Feed them once and they're grateful.

Don't feed them the second time they get violent because they know you have food.

 

[nharrold]

Keep quiet about what you have and get out in the "food and bread" lines with everyone else. That will help keep what you have secret, everyone will think you are in the same boat with them. You have to remember everyone that will come to you for help, has friends and family they will tell about you. The other thing that scares me more is if people don't know what you have, they can't be pressured by the powers that be for information about you. What they don't know, they can't tell.

"...has friends and family they will tell about you."

Excellent. You just put your finger on perhaps the most important consideration in this issue. They WILL tell others...and the giver will quickly become toast.

 

[dragonslayer2001]

there are a lot of well thought out responses here, and a lot of very selfish almost sociopathic responses.

the responses from some of the well known bible thumpers are hilarious. followers of Christ? give me a break. let the fu_kers starve is what several have said.


I like this one to a point:

And when one person finds out that you have for food for you and yours, then a couple of days later it turns into a hundred that think you have food for them after the word spreads and they will take it at whatever means is necessary.


I would say it depends on the circumstance.

Trying to feed a stranger or two in a place where a gaggle of strangers could quickly appear might be suicide.

But feeding a stranger or family while looking like you are hungry yourself or able to take someone in might be charitable.

The ancient Gods of the Greeks would often travel among men disguised as beggars (as did Odin) to see how they were treated, to judge men's hearts.

In a true shtf scenario you would have to be very careful. However, in a month or two if there were enough people around, they would KNOW by smell and other ways that you had food.

Better plan on forting up with a number of people otherwise you are dead meat anyways.

And in that case, you may be judged a little less harshly upon death if you weren't so friggin selfish and self centered.

I'm ready for death and judgment. I am not so fearful of dying. My soul is more important to me than my body.

But then I am more of a pagan than some of you thumpers.

 

[Ender]

In my neck of the woods, the whole community is prepared to share in a disaster- not just in food but in knowledge and expertise.

 

[Rex Jackson]

You will need to have a plan beforehand. People will need to think 'kingdom', with soldiers, fishermen, and hunters right off the bat. Farmers, runners, blacksmiths, tradesman, doctors, etc. will come second. There will be no time to waste and remember, people will do anything for food. Keep an honest and tight operation and you will get strong quick. Education is the key.

Setup trade with farmers now, while the going is easy.

 

[Rex Jackson]

In my neck of the woods, the whole community is prepared to share in a disaster- not just in food but in knowledge and expertise.

that

 

[blueridge]

Answer to the first post: In general - NO*... HOWEVER...

The * will be defined by the circumstances of the times and the ability of others to collectively defend whatever is left.

It's not likely to be a party - and guests will have to bring something when they show up.


This is a lot like the already fully-laden lifeboat situation. D'ya take on yet another, that will capsize the lifeboat or do you save those
already on-board? It's not an easy decision - but there is a logical one.

 

[dragonslayer2001]

2 Thessalonians 3

Those Who Are Lazy

1-3One more thing, friends: Pray for us. Pray that the Master's Word will simply take off and race through the country to a ground-swell of response, just as it did among you. And pray that we'll be rescued from these scoundrels who are trying to do us in. I'm finding that not all "believers" are believers. But the Master never lets us down. He'll stick by you and protect you from evil.

4-5Because of the Master, we have great confidence in you. We know you're doing everything we told you and will continue doing it. May the Master take you by the hand and lead you along the path of God's love and Christ's endurance.

6-9Our orders—backed up by the Master, Jesus—are to refuse to have anything to do with those among you who are lazy and refuse to work the way we taught you. Don't permit them to freeload on the rest.

We showed you how to pull your weight when we were with you, so get on with it.

We didn't sit around on our hands expecting others to take care of us. In fact, we worked our fingers to the bone, up half the night moonlighting so you wouldn't be burdened with taking care of us. And it wasn't because we didn't have a right to your support; we did. We simply wanted to provide an example of diligence, hoping it would prove contagious.

10-13Don't you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? "If you don't work, you don't eat." And now we're getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you.

This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don't slack off in doing your duty.

14-15If anyone refuses to obey our clear command written in this letter, don't let him get by with it. Point out such a person and refuse to subsidize his freeloading.

Maybe then he'll think twice. But don't treat him as an enemy. Sit him down and talk about the problem as someone who cares.

16May the Master of Peace himself give you the gift of getting along with each other at all times, in all ways. May the Master be truly among you!

17I, Paul, bid you good-bye in my own handwriting. I do this in all my letters, so examine my signature as proof that the letter is genuine.

18The incredible grace of our Master, Jesus Christ, be with all of you!




Ummmmmmmm, which version did this come from? The Red Neck justify my self centered anything goes in my version of the world Bible Studies?


Certainly a new one on me.

Does the Onion have a Bible Version?

Or is some Jewish comedian pulling your leg?


BTW, the Apostles and Disciples all went around freeloading. Did you miss the memo?

 

[ARMY RANGER]

Answer to the first post: In general - NO*... HOWEVER...

The * will be defined by the circumstances of the times and the ability of others to collectively defend whatever is left.

It's not likely to be a party - and guests will have to bring something when they show up.


This is a lot like the already fully-laden lifeboat situation. D'ya take on yet another, that will capsize the lifeboat or do you save those
already on-board? It's not an easy decision - but there is a logical one.

I tend to agree with you!

 

[BadMedicine]

Well Jesus allegedly could produce food and wine out of practically nothing. If you can do that, than you can apply his standard to yourself. The rest of us have to grow, raise or buy our food, not zap it into existence.

Exactly. I don't mean to be blasphemes, but did Jesus have a job? If I was the omnipotent son of God/ God himself I would feed the hungry too. no sweat (literally).
Granted, I know not what his priorities are, nor do I doubt them, but I know one thing: Jesus' priorities are not as outlined in the bible.
thread drift.

No. I wouldn't. WWJD? he sure ain't feeding the hungry/ lazy/ poor.

 

[Ambros]

I wouldn't think of giving my food away... Those people who can do work would come up asking to work for food and not for a basic handout and would be a different thing all together, though i wouldnt trust them as far as i could throw them...