CORONA There’s no proof that hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin caused a drop in cases in India

Troke

On TB every waking moment

There’s no proof that hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin caused a drop in cases in India
Neither drug is approved in the US for COVID-19. And the FDA and WHO recommend against using them to prevent or treat COVID-19.

By: Tom Kertscher
May 24, 2021

On May 17, The New York Times reported that the coronavirus crisis was so severe in India, with about 23 million infections confirmed, that the country was accounting for more than half of the world’s daily COVID-19 cases.

The same day, The Gateway Pundit posted a story suggesting that two drugs — both of which have drawn warnings from U.S. and global public health officials not to be used for COVID-19 — were having dramatic effects in India.

The headline, widely shared on Facebook, read: “Elites Worried: COVID Cases in India Plummet After Government Promotes Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine Use.”

The post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. (Read more about PolitiFact’s partnership with Facebook.)

Daily COVID-19 cases in India decreased in the days before May 17 — but only after a nearly vertical rise that started in April and peaked May 8. The Indian government has recommended limited use of the two drugs for COVID-19, but there is no evidence that their use led to the drop in cases.

Neither drug is approved in the U.S. for COVID-19. And both the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the World Health Organization recommend against using them to prevent or treat COVID-19 infection.

India’s recommendations
The Gateway Pundit article was written by the site’s founder and editor-in-chief, Jim Hoft, whose Twitter account was permanently suspended in February for “repeated violations” of Twitter’s policies on election-related messages, according to news reports.

The Gateway Pundit article links to another article that links to revised guidelines issued April 28 by India’s Ministry of Health & Family Welfare. The guidelines, for “home isolation of mild/asymptomatic COVID-19 cases,” recommends considering ivermectin as treatment for those patients, and says people in close contact with those patients should take hydroxychloroquine as a prevention “as per protocol and as prescribed by the treating medical officer.”

Hoft did not respond to a request for evidence to support his claim.

Confirmed new COVID-19 cases in India declined in the days before the article was posted, based on a seven-day rolling average — but only after reaching a peak following a sharp increase that started in April.

The seven-day average of new daily cases was 319,497 on May 17, the date of the post, down from a peak of 391,232 on May 8, according to Our World in Data. The U.S. average was 32,036 on May 17.

Many experts caution that the Indian government’s official tallies of confirmed cases likely vastly underestimate the actual infection figures because testing remains limited and the volume of cases has crippled the health care system in some areas. So the actual extent of the decline is not clear.

Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are being widely used in India for COVID-19, according to news reports. But there is no evidence they led to the recent decline in confirmed cases, given the lack of clear scientific evidence that they are effective at all in prevention or treatment.

The government’s new guidelines don’t give a rationale for the recommendations. They were issued several days after a research paper was published that said “results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials,” including some done in India, “report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin.”

Doctors in India admitted to having prescribed the drug under compulsion, peer pressure or on patient’s demand, according to one news report. The health minister in Goa was quoted as saying ivermectin does not prevent a COVID-19 infection, but helps in reducing the severity of the disease.

Hydroxychloroquine has been in use much longer. In June 2020, a task force of India’s health ministry recommended that frontline health care workers take it to prevent COVID-19 infection. According to the journal Nature, the task force cited three new studies conducted by government agencies, only one of which had been published, that the task force said showed it can prevent infection.

Recommendations against hydroxychloroquine
Leading U.S. and global health authorities recommend against using the two drugs for COVID-19.

In March 2020, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration authorized emergency use of hydroxychloroquine, which is FDA-approved to treat or prevent malaria, for certain hospitalized COVID-19 patients. But the FDA revoked its authorization less than three months later, after determining “it is no longer reasonable” to believe that it may be effective in treating COVID-19, “nor is it reasonable to believe that the known and potential benefits of these products outweigh their known and potential risks.”

The FDA continues to recommend against using it for COVID-19.

In guidelines issued March 2 on drugs to prevent COVID-19, the World Health Organization said: “We recommend against administering hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis to individuals who do not have COVID-19 — strong recommendation, high certainty evidence.” And in guidelines issued March 31 on treating COVID-19, the organization gave a “strong recommendation against hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19 of any severity.”

Recommendation against ivermectin
In the treatment guidelines, the World Health Organization said: “We recommend not to use ivermectin in patients with COVID-19 except in the context of a clinical trial,” citing “very low certainty evidence” about the drug.

The FDA, in a March 5 article, said ivermectin should not be used to prevent or treat COVID-19. Ivermectin, which is FDA-approved to treat conditions caused by parasitic worms and parasites such as lice, in large doses “is dangerous and can cause serious harm.” An FDA posting April 26 noted that a June 2020 research article described the effect of ivermectin on the coronavirus in a laboratory setting, but that more testing is needed to determine whether ivermectin might be appropriate to prevent or treat coronavirus or COVID-19.

In April, we rated as False a claim on social media that “mountains of data” show drug ivermectin “basically obliterates” COVID-19 transmission. Some limited studies suggest that ivermectin can help treat COVID-19; others show no significant impact. Many of the studies had small sample sizes and other limitations.

“It would therefore be premature to conclude absolutely that ivermectin has no place in COVID-19 treatment,” Gordon Dent, a senior lecturer in pharmacology at Keele University School of Medicine in England, wrote in April. “On the basis of current evidence, however, its use cannot be recommended.”

Our ruling
The Gateway Pundit claimed: “COVID cases in India plummet after government promotes ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine use.”

COVID-19 cases in India, one of the worst-hit countries in the world by the coronavirus, dropped in mid-May only after a nearly vertical spike in cases over the previous several weeks. The Indian government has given limited recommendations for using the two drugs in connection with mild COVID-19 cases.

There is no evidence that the two drugs caused or contributed to a decline in cases in India. Neither is approved in the U.S. for COVID-19. And both the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the World Health Organization recommend against using them to prevent or to treat COVID-19 infections, citing lack of scientific evidence of their effectiveness and the potential for serious side effects.

For a misleading statement that has an element of truth, our rating is Mostly False.

Since last Spring, I have been hoping for a silver bullet that could be taken orally (no shots) that would prevent/cure Covid. First HQL but that fell by the wayside, needed prescription and the Docs were reluctant. Than Ivermectin popped up and damn, it looked good. People in Brazil were popping it like popcorn. The result? Absolute disaster to the point Docs are campaigning to make it a prescription because of possible liver damage. .

Then India popped up. Tremendous success. What's different from Brazil? Were they taking zinc with it or something?

Then this article. Back to Square One until I know more.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
The New York Times said it so whatever point they are trying to make us believe, I will believe the opposite.
There was some obscurely written article that argued that one would normally expect a drop after a steep rise. Didn't pick up on it. Ran across this later so thought I would float it out. If it turns out to be accurate, I am not going to be a happy camper.

We have 51 people in our immediate family so we are pretty exposed. So far, two have had it. One has had a slow recovery because when her resistance was down, she managed to pick up some other bad stuff.
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
and fish don't fart in the water. and the journalists want whats best for you, them and the govts. but now I'm being redundant.

But they have the cure. No, not actually the cure, but a vaccine. Well, not really a vaccine but it will prevent you rom getting sick..well no, but not too sick, from 'covid' anyway..but you won't be able to spread it.. well, not actually, so you'll still need masks, spacing mandates, and contact tracing... but then we can go back to normal? well, there are a lot of side effects... but we've got a plan for YOU and your best interest is our top priority. trust us.
 

Krayola

Veteran Member
I didn't read any more past this part:

The post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. (Read more about PolitiFact’s partnership with Facebook.)
They admit up front that they partner with Faceborg, and they say this in the context of efforts to combat false news, therefore, I have to assume they are in bed with FB and its censorship of anything to fight covid other than vaccines.
I quit reading as I could not find the author in the OP credible.
 

#1 oldskool

"You finally really did it. You maniacs!
I was in the hospital for 4 days after Easter with 'covid pneumonia'..........doctor and hospital gave me ivermectin! The articles claim that ivermectin isn't FDA approved is horse shite. I don't think that the doc AND hospital would risk an un-approved drug !!!!! LOLOLOLOL
 
I was in the hospital for 4 days after Easter with 'covid pneumonia'..........doctor and hospital gave me ivermectin! The articles claim that ivermectin isn't FDA approved is horse shite. I don't think that the doc AND hospital would risk an un-approved drug !!!!! LOLOLOLOL
These drugs are approved, by the FDA, for their common use. Doctors can prescribe any approved drug for any disease they believe it will help. It does not have to be approved for that specific condition. Approval for another use would involve mucho bucks and time, for no great return. It’s called off-label and is maybe 20% of prescriptions. Perfectly legal. “Not approved for treating covid”, is the big cop out in these stories. Some docs will toe the line, some hospitals will also refuse to use it. Fareed and Tyson in Imperial Valley have treated 6,000 patients with HCQ IVM DOXY ZINC. They have lost two, already seriously ill.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
I was in the hospital for 4 days after Easter with 'covid pneumonia'..........doctor and hospital gave me ivermectin! The articles claim that ivermectin isn't FDA approved is horse shite. I don't think that the doc AND hospital would risk an un-approved drug !!!!! LOLOLOLOL
Well, its not labeled for COVID... it is FDA approved for treating various parasites, but not for anything else. But that's actually common in medicine... vets and doctors are legally allowed to prescribe medications "off label", if they believe they will help. That was a major reason I was so stunned when various politicians started "declaring" that doctors "weren't allowed" to prescribe hydroxy or ivermectin for COVID... they were breaking long standing policy.

Summerthyme
 

Delta

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Of course there is no evidence. That would require a control group and blind administering of the drug. On the other hand, it would be interesting to see figures on how much Ivermectin was sold on particular dates--in correlation with the May 8th Covid peak.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Well, its not labeled for COVID... it is FDA approved for treating various parasites, but not for anything else. But that's actually common in medicine... vets and doctors are legally allowed to prescribe medications "off label", if they believe they will help. That was a major reason I was so stunned when various politicians started "declaring" that doctors "weren't allowed" to prescribe hydroxy or ivermectin for COVID... they were breaking long standing policy.

Summerthyme
Seems I read somewhere early on that Docs could lose their license if they prescribed HQL (?) for 'off label' use and ditto pharmacists if they filled the prescription. That kind of faded away after the excitement of the results.
 

TammyinWI

Joyful, Patient, Thankful
Then how come the Indian Bar Association is suing the WHO for not promoting it?

Indian Bar Association Serves Legal Notice Upon Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, the Chief Scientist, WHO

Trial Site Staff May 30, 2021

Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, the Chief Scientist at the World Health Organisation (WHO), was apparently served a legal notice by Indian Bar Association (IBA) on May 25, 2021, for her alleged act of spreading disinformation and thus misleading the people of India, in order to fulfill her own agenda, so the plaintiff’s action declares. It is reported that Dr. Soumya Swaminathan deliberately ignored and suppressed the FLCCC and BIRD Panel’s data regarding the effectiveness of the drug Ivermectin, with an intent to dissuade the people of India from using Ivermectin. Moreover, the nation of India has included ivermectin in their national protocol and, as TrialSite recently reported, in states where the treatment is in wide use an unprecedented reduction of cases is now reported. Of course, it’s difficult to prove a direct correlation without a designed study but the turnaround in cases in Uttar Pradesh, one of the states with a population-wide ivermectin regimen, is indeed striking.

According to entries in the Indian media, the notice is based on the research and clinical trials carried out by ‘Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance’ (FLCCC) and the British Ivermectin Recommendation Development (BIRD) Panel, who have presented enormous data that strengthen the case for the recommendation of Ivermectin in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19.

However, the Indian Council for Medical Research (ICMR) and All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), Delhi have refused to accept her stand and have retained the recommendation for Ivermectin under ‘May Do’ category, for patients with mild symptoms and those in home isolation, as stated in ‘The National Guidelines for COVID-19 management’ last updated on May 17, 2021.

In order to stop Dr. Soumya Swaminathan from causing further damage to the life of citizens of this country, IBA has decided to initiate legal action against her and as part of the process, a legal notice has been served upon her.

WHO Misinformation Campaign?

TrialSite has evidence that WHO is suppressing data as, recently reported, they issued a report on the significant local effort of the public health operation in Uttar Pradesh yet omitted a fundamental fact, that ivermectin is in fact in widespread use as part of the very initiative they reported on their website. Why would WHO go to such great lengths to suppress this important information, that is a treatment that’s actually working? What kind of agenda has this organization adopted where it appears to use misinformation to deceive and disrupt nations seeking to get this pandemic under control? Is this recent legal action in India merely a symbolic gesture or does it represent the harbinger of other such legal actions to come?


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Doc. is at this link:

 
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northern watch

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I think that covid-19 will cause a split between counties, those using Big Pharma drugs and those not using Big Pharma drugs.
 

Hognutz

Has No Life - Lives on TB
and fish don't fart in the water. and the journalists want whats best for you, them and the govts. but now I'm being redundant.

But they have the cure. No, not actually the cure, but a vaccine. Well, not really a vaccine but it will prevent you rom getting sick..well no, but not too sick, from 'covid' anyway..but you won't be able to spread it.. well, not actually, so you'll still need masks, spacing mandates, and contact tracing... but then we can go back to normal? well, there are a lot of side effects... but we've got a plan for YOU and your best interest is our top priority. trust us.
387F9962-A6D9-490D-A4FF-EC02D2F99574.jpeg
 

Oscar Wilde

Membership Revoked
Where IVM was used, yes, dramatically.
I 'spected such but this particular article appears intent to discredit such
so they must have some other explanation. Was curious as to what this
might be but no mention, just Ivermectin bad, Hydroxychloroquine bad.

Can't have ya fixin yorselfs.

O.W.
 
Ivermectin, which is FDA-approved to treat conditions caused by parasitic worms and parasites such as lice, in large doses “is dangerous and can cause serious harm.”
Any substance in large doses (a relative term) can be considered dangerous and harmful. DHMO, quite beneficial in smaller amounts, has killed thousands in bulk.
 

Kathy in WV

Down on the Farm...
Go to Dr. John Campbell's YouTube page and watch his conversation with Dr. Tess Lawrie. Air date was about 2 months ago. She has done a meticulous study of all the other studies done on Ivermectin as a treatment. She can't say enough about how successful it is. 90 minute video but worth watching.
 

WFK

Senior Something
But there is no evidence they led to the recent decline in confirmed cases, given the lack of clear scientific evidence that they are effective at all in prevention or treatment.
At that point they used a circular argument and it became clear the source was biased.
Read too much of such.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Seems I read somewhere early on that Docs could lose their license if they prescribed HQL (?) for 'off label' use and ditto pharmacists if they filled the prescription. That kind of faded away after the excitement of the results.
Yeah, see... thats NUTS! And if they suddenly started yanking medical licenses for using ivermectin on COVID, are they also going to yank them for OTHER extra label prescribing? Gonna be a massive doctor shortage, because they ALL do it, probably daily. (.BTW... a vet telling a cattle owner to disregard the "1 cc per 150# of bodyweight" dosing on the bottle, and give up to 5x that dose, is "off label prescribing". The fact is, penicillin hasn't worked at the label dosages in 40 years. Everyone knows it... but proving it to get updated data would cost millions. No ones going to do it- it's off patent.)

This is the type thing the US government used to do, before they started wasting their time on racism and social justice. But in lieu of new studies, doctors and vets just use their personal experience to prescribe appropriately. That ability should NEVER be curtailed by some jerkwater bureaucrat with a degree in feminist intersectionality.

Summerthyme
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Nightwolf went to PUB Med and other medical sites, based on his reading of medical papers (including some from India) and most of the peer-reviewed, he ordered this medication for our own use if we need it.

Is it perfect no, does it work for everyone no, is it a treatment that can be used for treating somepeople? The scientific evidence is learning towards YES.

I don't really care about the opinion of the New York Times, in this case, I'll go by Nightwolf's research - there have been other "miracle" reports that he has found to be lacking in evidence in the past.

But so far, this isn't one of them, but again this is not absolute medication advice and it may not always work or be appropriate for any given individual purpose.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
I’m sticking with vitamin D3 with at least 5000 IU per day, and quercetin with zinc, as effective preventatives, with home-made colloidal silver to deal with any on-set of symptoms otherwise prevented. No doctor visits, no drug bills. And certainly no jabs. What? For a disease with a 99.8% survival rate? Are you kidding me? The whole world has gone off the rails. Lunacy to the max at the top. Mass hysteria fomented by our “betters”, as Troke is constantly referring to them.
 

Jackpine Savage

Veteran Member
I've been watching John Campbell's coverage of Ivermectin. It sounds like in India's case there is one 'state' that pushed Ivermectin more than others and it faired better. This video also covered studies in Mexico City and Peru.

You have to wonder if 'news' articles in the OP are funded by the drug industry.

RT 24:38

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJSUKDng_Ww
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
I’m sticking with vitamin D3 with at least 5000 IU per day, and quercetin with zinc, as effective preventatives, with home-made colloidal silver to deal with any on-set of symptoms otherwise prevented. No doctor visits, no drug bills. And certainly no jabs. What? For a disease with a 99.8% survival rate? Are you kidding me? The whole world has gone off the rails. Lunacy to the max at the top. Mass hysteria fomented by our “betters”, as Troke is constantly referring to them.
Jed... having seen several folks in your/our age group (healthy seniors)go through COVID, both with and without ivermectin, I'd strongly advise that you (and everyone who doesn't have an actual medical contraindication- do your own research, but it seems mostly people on blood thinners need to be careful) at least get some on hand "just in case".

People who have followed the medical advice, went to the ER, were sent home on steroids and "rest"... ended up in the hospital, with varying severe degrees of COVID pneumonia, and dependent on oxygen when they got home.

Those who started on quercetin or hydroxychloroquine plus zinc, found that adding ivermectin often made a huge change in symptoms within about 12 hours.

The biggie for me was how it seemed to stop the relapses on hubby... after a few weeks of going back and forth between exhaustion and feeling good, taking ivermectin stopped the cycle.

For sure, not medical advice, and, as Melodi said above, it doesn't work on everyone (nothing does!) But barring some truly startling news out of a reputable source, we'll be keeping ivermectin within close reach for awhile.

Summerthyme
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
No false news or misinformation here. Back in April 2020, my MIL's Covid-19 was cured with Hydrox/Zpack just before they took away the choice for hospitals to use it. She was 97 years old!!!
The point I was making. Hydroxi was shut down, I only remember that docs that prescribed it were threatened.
And so it went away.
 
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