OP-ED Tens of Thousands of Career “Civil Service” Administrators in Washington, DC, Apoplectic That Trump Might Fire Them

[Buick Electra]

Tens of Thousands of Career "Civil Service" Administrators in Washington, DC, Apoplectic That Trump Might Fire Them - The Last Refuge

This op-ed published in Politico is intended to sound the alarm about President Donald Trump fundamentally destroying the system of career civil service agents in Washington DC, and it’s also a little funny. I mean, if you built an echo-chamber ideological in magnitude and scale, then...

theconservativetreehouse.com

Tens of Thousands of Career “Civil Service” Administrators in Washington, DC, Apoplectic That Trump Might Fire Them​

December 30, 2023 | Sundance | 219 Comments

This op-ed published in Politico is intended to sound the alarm about President Donald Trump fundamentally destroying the system of career civil service agents in Washington DC, and it’s also a little funny.

I mean, if you built an echo-chamber ideological in magnitude and scale, then self-isolated inside the DC beltway barrier, this would be exactly the type of alarm to follow.

POLITICO – […] President Donald Trump’s sweeping proposal to convert thousands of career civil servants into political appointees if he wins a second term in the White House. That plan — which has won the support of powerful, Trump-aligned conservative think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and the America First Policy Institute — is modeled on an executive order from Trump’s first term that redesignated 20,000 civil servants in policy-related positions as “Schedule F” employees, thereby allowing them to be fired unilaterally by the president.

[…] Americans should not underestimate the damage that the reforms would do to the federal government’s ability to deliver basic services in a timely and efficient manner. “At the end of the day, it’s intuitive,” he said. “If you are selecting people on the basis of their political persuasion or their loyalty as opposed to their expertise and their commitment to the public good, you’re going to wind up with less good service and more risk for the American people.” (MORE)

Apparently, Mr. Max Stier has misread the room.

Dear, DC Career Civil Servants,

FU!

Warmest regards,

America

 

[night driver]

Poor dears. They may actually have to PAY for the crap they created for 8 years.

 

[naegling62]

 

[Scrapman]

There are thousands of federal employees that don't do a thing except stay invisible and get there 20 years in .You know who you are .

 

[moldy]

I'm guessing they have read the news about the new Argentinian president and promptly soiled themselves.

 

[Capt. Senile]

When Trump took office last time, he did not clear house of all the political appointees from the previous Administration.
Look how well that turned out for him. If he is re-elected, the Federal Government should look like the day after Jesus drove the moneylenders from the Temple. Maybe even delete a few Federal Offices and staff, too.
Just my opinion.

 

[sy32478]

When Trump took office last time, he did not clear house of all the political appointees from the previous Administration.
Look how well that turned out for him. If he is re-elected, the Federal Government should look like the day after Jesus drove the moneylenders from the Temple. Maybe even delete a few Federal Offices and staff, too.
Just my opinion.

.. and he should make it clear that it is due to spending on Ukraine and Obama Phones. Perfect salt for the wounds.

 

[Groucho]

 

[mistaken1]

Tens of Thousands of Career “Civil Service” Administrators in Washington, DC, Apoplectic That Trump Might Fire Them

Almighty Father in heaven please make it so.

 

[Hognutz]

 

[Kathy in FL]

Too bad so sad. You work for someone else, including the government, then you are at risk of losing your job. You certainly don't get anything guaranteed. In fact nothing in life is guaranteed so deal with it like the rest of us who are paying your salaries and bennies have to.

 

[Dobbin]

Can we give them all "shovels" to stand over once they depart out the door?

Yunno - sort of a "parting gift?"

"A little something to remember us by."

Actually, I kind of would like the "NGOs" (Non-Governmental Organizations) to have their funding and employment cut. It would be nice to see a "Help Wanted Ad."

"Attention former Non-Governmental Organization Employees - Make THOUSANDS working directly for the government identifying, assembling, and using physical force to remove Illegal alien invaders from the country. Full benefits including the satisfaction knowing you're creating job opportunities for Americans - and leaving support for those Americans who truly need it. Nightstick, zip-ties, body armor provided"

Dobbin

 

[Old Reliable]

When TRUMP takes office, I hope he has a list and checking it twist and clears house.

First on his list should be the ATF and the IRS.

 

[Wyominglarry]

The moment the president tries to fire someone the unions will file a lawsuit to stop him.

 

[Redleg]

Trump, well any elected president for that matter, should have cleaned house of all the former administration and make them reapply for their jobs.

 

[Sacajawea]

How many were RIF'd way back when?

Given a Congress who cuts the budget, the unions couldn't squeal.

 

[Lone_Hawk]

The moment the president tries to fire someone the unions will file a lawsuit to stop him.

That is easy. Government unions were put in by executive order. Do the same the other way, outlaw the unions.

 

[jed turtle]

Tens of millions of US citizens will be apoplectic if Trump DOESN’T fire them! Let’s vote on it -without electronic voting machines

 

[Melodi]

Federal Unions can only do a little of what most private-sector unions can do. I worked in unionized and non-union Federal offices, and the main difference was that you could sometimes appeal something in a Unionized Office. You might also have a Union Rep with you if there is a problem with the management.

The law prohibits them from encouraging or allowing workers to strike, and entire agencies can (and do) ban them. This is a different issue from that of the top-level civil servants. Some of them have jobs that probably should be reclassified. Other times, when you go down, you discover that a lower to mid-level civil servant refuses to break the law by following "orders" from someone high on the VIP food chain.

That happened when Hillary Clinton tried to order the White House Travel Team to break the law; they refused, and she wanted them to. If they had followed her orders, they could have been fired. The mess got them reassigned, but legally, she couldn't fire them as they had done nothing wrong. They could have been fired if they had followed her orders.

Only some things are as obvious as they seem, and a lot of the chaos happens because Congress Passes sweeping laws they dont' read, and then the Civil Servants legally have to sort out how they work on the ground. That doesn't mean there is no dead wood at the top; there is plenty. But it isn't nearly as cut and dried as often thought. Business people like Trump can have difficulty understanding why they can't sweep in and fire everyone. It is because it was discovered in the 1930s that you can't have a functioning civil service when everyone, including the janitor, is changed every four to eight years.

On the other hand, The Hatch Act is almost 100 years old and does need some serious updating. But that would mean major work for congress, who would then have to agree on how to do that. I don't see that happening any time soon, no matter who is President.

 

[Melodi]

Tens of millions of US citizens will be apoplectic if Trump DOESN’T fire them! Let’s vote on it -without electronic voting machines

And if he does it without a law change - the courts will reverse the firings with back pay. Now, if Congress actually did the work to concentrate on the problem and change the laws, THEN, this can (and probably should) happen.

 

[Doat]

Clean house. Should have been done long ago.

 

[AddisonRose]

 

[20Gauge]

Too bad so sad. You work for someone else, including the government, then you are at risk of losing your job. You certainly don't get anything guaranteed. In fact nothing in life is guaranteed so deal with it like the rest of us who are paying your salaries and bennies have to.

It is far far far worse creating your own job and going out there every day and killing something and bringing it home for the family.

Yes, it is sad those who are cared for without having to do much may and I mean may risk something once in a while, but EVERYONE who goes out and creates and brings it home has my full respect.

 

[Illini Warrior]

When TRUMP takes office, I hope he has a list and checking it twist and clears house.

First on his list should be the ATF and the IRS.

every single one of the recent IRS hires for gunslinging should get the door on Day 1 >>> if there's a Biden menace worse than a bunch of crackpot f _____ing bookkeepers that want to go out & shoot people - I'd like to see them

 

[Dux]

Business people like Trump can have difficulty understanding why they can't sweep in and fire everyone. It is because it was discovered in the 1930s that you can't have a functioning civil service when everyone, including the janitor, is changed every four to eight years.

You have too much respect for the lower levels. I've seen protected low level workers (so-called engineers at NASA). They could do whatever they wanted. They could get written up for their non-productivity, then they would work for 90 days, then they could stop again. Literally that was explained to me by mid level managers. I spent a couple of years with state workers. Those that wanted to work, did so, but otherwise productivity was very low.

A wise leader would not fire "everyone", but "everyone" should be just a little bit worried about keeping their job.

 

[CTFIREBATTCHIEF]

When Trump took office last time, he did not clear house of all the political appointees from the previous Administration.
Look how well that turned out for him. If he is re-elected, the Federal Government should look like the day after Jesus drove the moneylenders from the Temple. Maybe even delete a few Federal Offices and staff, too.
Just my opinion.

Can we have an AMEN on that!!

 

[pinkelsteinsmom]

The moment the president tries to fire someone the unions will file a lawsuit to stop him.

Then have them arrested for "trumped" up charges, It's a thing.

 

[Elza]

[…] Americans should not underestimate the damage that the reforms would do to the federal government’s ability to deliver basic services in a timely and efficient manner. “At the end of the day, it’s intuitive,” he said. “If you are selecting people on the basis of their political persuasion or their loyalty as opposed to their expertise and their commitment to the public good, you’re going to wind up with less good service and more risk for the American people.”

This could only be a written statement. I doubt that he could say this in person and keep a straight face.

 

[Elza]

When Trump took office last time, he did not clear house of all the political appointees from the previous Administration.
Look how well that turned out for him. If he is re-elected, the Federal Government should look like the day after Jesus drove the moneylenders from the Temple. Maybe even delete a few Federal Offices and staff, too.
Just my opinion.

This is my biggest complaint about Trump. I still wonder if he would do it if he gets re-elected.

 

[Blacknarwhal]

...for people who SHOULD know how well the Dims can cheat now, they all sure seem downright terrified.

And before anyone pulls out the tired old "Sun Tzu" wheeze, come on. There's a point at which it gets too obvious to be legitimate theater any more.

 

[Rabbit]

If you have ever had a little government toad who has never created or started any business of their own come into your place of business and not only tell you that you must adhere to some vague, useless, and wasteful requirement that is so ambiguous it cannot even be interpreted you will cheerfully back President Trump or anyone else who will let these leeches go.

 

[Publius]

There are bureaucrats that need to be removed but the laws protect them from being fired for working against the administrator/president. There is one thing that can be done that they will not see it coming and they find themselves standing in the unemployment line it may take awhile but most of them can be removed in two years once it has been put in place.

 

[Melodi]

You have too much respect for the lower levels. I've seen protected low level workers (so-called engineers at NASA). They could do whatever they wanted. They could get written up for their non-productivity, then they would work for 90 days, then they could stop again. Literally that was explained to me by mid level managers. I spent a couple of years with state workers. Those that wanted to work, did so, but otherwise productivity was very low.

A wise leader would not fire "everyone", but "everyone" should be just a little bit worried about keeping their job.

I was a lower-level worker in the personnel department for a couple of years. My experience was the system gathered some dead wood that was too hard to remove. But the most serious problem for the lower-level employees in both the State and Federal Jobs I worked in was that drive, attention to detail, and creativity were all punished.

People learned quickly that working hard and finding after a couple of years they could complete in two hours what took their predecessor an entire day was not rewarded. If anything, it made them a nail sticking up to be hammered down.

Ask me how I know...(and that is a different problem from senior-level employees that think they run the country - because in some ways they do, by default).

 

[bbbuddy]

We don't need entire departments. Such as the Depertment of Education. Has done nothing but frell up education.
Take a wrecking ball to many Departments. And drastically downsize all the others.

 

[Bumblepuff]

"I work in the Department of Whatever. It was formed to deal with whatever issues the other departments refuse to handle.
My job is essential because I resolve conflicts that would otherwise escalate into managerial complaints about saving face.
It's very important to save your face so you can face the music, especially rap, though that's another realm of conflict that
my coworkers are always facing. Yes, I look in the mirror every day and wonder what will happen to me if Trump triumphs
and tears a new one in my department. If you want to learn more about my face, visit my Facebook page. Or not. Whatever."​

 

[Sacajawea]

So, bbbuddy. I agree with restructuring the bureaucracy. Let's start from a blank page and design what Depts are absolutely necessary and eliminate all the overlaps & redundancies & byzantine fragmentation of responsibilities!

Case in point:
Dept of Defense
Dept of Homeland Security
CIA/FBI

(and more) ALL have some duplication of purpose. Nevermind FEMA; they just need to cease to exist and go back to the old locally managed Civil Defense structure.

Revamp the immigration laws and get the bureaucracy for immigration/naturalization OUT of the Dept of State. Make them define their own purpose & usefulness (DoS) - and pare down to the bare minimum.

 

[SquonkHunter]

I was a lower-level worker in the personnel department for a couple of years. My experience was the system gathered some dead wood that was too hard to remove. But the most serious problem for the lower-level employees in both the State and Federal Jobs I worked in was that drive, attention to detail, and creativity were all punished.

People learned quickly that working hard and finding after a couple of years they could complete in two hours what took their predecessor an entire day was not rewarded. If anything, it made them a nail sticking up to be hammered down.

Ask me how I know...(and that is a different problem from senior-level employees that think they run the country - because in some ways they do, by default).

I worked for a highly visible state agency in a background support capacity for some years. Everything you say also applied there. In my office I was the nail that was always being hammered back into place.