BRKG South Korea returns fire from North: report

South Korea returns fire from North: report

Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:10pm EST

SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korea has returned fire after North Korea shot several artillery rounds into waters near a disputed sea border with the South on Wednesday, Yonhap news agency reported an unnamed military source as saying.

North Korea on Tuesday declared a no-sail zone in the waters off its west coast, according to media reports in the South.

(Reporting by Jon Herskovitz and Jack Kim; Editing by Jonathan Hopfner)

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE60Q0AX20100127

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JANUARY 26, 2010, 8:15 P.M. ET.

North Korea Fires Artillery; South Returns Fire - Yonhap

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100126-717766.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

SEOUL (AFP)--North Korea fired artillery Wednesday near the disputed sea border with South Korea, prompting Seoul's military to return fire, the Yonhap news agency reported.

The South Korean news agency said the North fired several shells into the sea near the South Korean-controlled Baengnyeong Island in the Yellow Sea, following the North's declaration Tuesday of "no sail" zones in the area.

The news agency said Seoul's military fired back but there were no immediate further details. The defense ministry said it was checking the reports.

The South Korean military has confirmed that the North fired artillery near the border.

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If North Korea makes a move to invade a occupy Baengnyeong Island, then it's going to get messy fast. Such a provocative move by the North has been a concern for some time.
 
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ethan hunt

Contributing Member
code name: "and so it begins"

(spirit: i'm not following you around it's just coincidence)

my dad spent alot of time in korea, earned a purple heart there in "51" and went on to serve there numerous times throughout his career.

korea has always been full combat pay for those that are stationed there.

this event highights the reason why.
 

denfoote

Inactive
Things are hearing up in places we don't need them to!!

The Chicoms know Obama is an ineffective lame duck after his first year and are acting accordingly!!
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
It is not going to happen before a bigger war starts in the Middle East. A couple of shots is not a big deal. I lived there for eight and a half years.

Yep but once the Middle East inflames into a bigger war then Dear Leader will make his move.

The US has promised 695,000 military personnel if a war gets started on the Korean Peninsular. No they won't run. No it won't be an easy war. They will fight like mad with skill.
 
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mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
South Korea returns fire from North: report

North Korea on Tuesday declared a no-sail zone in the waters off its west coast, according to media reports in the South.

Very interesting. I wonder if "we" are watching for shipments coming or going?

Mike
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
If we don't have repeats of this over the next couple of days we're probably ok, until the current Kim "leaves office", then it's anyone's guess on what will happen next.
 

onetimer

Veteran Member
South Korean security officials hold emergency meeting after exchange of artillery fire with North in disputed waters 36 minutes ago from BreakingNews Headquarters
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Two Koreas trade fire; North shoots again

By Jack Kim

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/in...uth_of_more_artillery_firing.html?cid=8172798


SEOUL (Reuters) - North and South Korea exchanged artillery fire near their disputed sea border on Wednesday, highlighting instability along a heavily armed frontier for the second time in three months.

North Korea warned the South that more rounds were on the way as a part of military training, and then fired off another barrage a few hours after delivering the message in a state media report.

Analysts doubt the latest clash will escalate and see it more as an attempt by Pyongyang to stress tensions on the Korean peninsula and press home its demand for a peace deal that would open the way to international aid for its ruined economy.

"No one can argue about the premeditated exercises staged by Korean People's Army units in waters of the North side," the North's KCNA news agency quoted the general staff of the country's army as saying.

North Korea has more than 10,000 pieces of artillery aimed at the wealthy South and which could in a matter of hours destroy much of the capital Seoul, 25 miles (40 km) from the border.

South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff said the North fired artillery from land towards the South but landing on its side of the disputed sea border off the west coast.

South Korea returned fire from its coastal artillery.

"We want to express grave concern over the incident that resulted from the North's illegal act that unnecessarily creates tension through live-fire artillery fire," the South's Defence Ministry said in a message to the North.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency said the North probably fired about 30 rounds of artillery and Seoul responded with about three times the number.

The firing came when President Lee Myung-bak was travelling to Davos in Switzerland for the World Economic Forum after a state visit to India.

His office was quoted by Yonhap as saying both sides fired into the air and there were no casualties.

Earlier this week Pyongyang accused the South of declaring war by saying it would launch a pre-emptive strike if it had clear signs the North was preparing a nuclear attack.

RETURN TO TALKS ?
The latest clash also comes amid signals from Pyongyang it was ready to return after a year-long boycott to six-country talks -- between the two Koreas, China, Japan, Russia and the United States -- on ending its atomic arms programme.

"North Korea may want to return to the six-party talks, but only to ease pressure on itself and gain more economic assistance, which it really needs now," said Zhang Liangui, who is an expert on North Korea at the Central Party School, a prominent institute in Beijing.

"So North Korea wants to control the pace of contacts with South Korea and the United States. Incidents such as this are a way for it to show that it can control how and when there is any progress," Zhang said.

In return for resuming disarmament negotiations, North Korea has demanded talks on a peace treaty with the United States to finally end the 1950-53 Korean War and the lifting of U.N. sanctions over its two nuclear tests.

Analysts say tightened sanctions since last year have badly hit the failing economy, especially its main export -- weapons.

There have also been overtures for dialogue with Seoul after two years of increasingly tense ties with the government of President Lee Myung-bak who has linked improved relations to action by the North to disarm and end the security risk affecting the peninsula and the rest of prosperous North Asia.

News of the firing rattled markets which soon recovered. Analysts saw little long-term impact from the standoff.

North Korea has declared a no-sail zone in the Yellow Sea waters for two months ending in late March, a sign it might be preparing to test fire missiles.

The area is near a contested sea border between the rival Koreas that was the site of a brief naval clash in November as well as deadly confrontations in previous years between the states which are technically still at war.

About a month before that clash, North Korea raised regional security concerns by firing short-range missiles off its east coast.

(Additional reporting by Jon Herskovitz, Christine Kim and Jungyoun Park in Seoul and Chris Buckley in Beijing; Editing by Jonathan Thatcher and Sanjeev Miglani)
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Starting the Second Korean War?

by Doug Bandow

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10010

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. A former special assistant to Pres. Ronald Reagan, he is the author of the forthcoming book Leviathan Unchained: Washington's Bipartisan Big Government Consensus.

Added to cato.org on February 26, 2009



What to do about North Korea was a major topic during Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's recent trip to South Korea and China. The North remains predictably unpredictable. If the Korean peninsula has gone a few weeks without a crisis, expect Pyongyang to create one. So it has been with the advent of the Obama administration.

Angry over the Bush administration's failure to offer sufficient inducements, the North announced that it was halting plans to dismantle its nuclear program. Irritated with Seoul's new hard-line towards North Korea, Pyongyang declared all agreements with the Republic of Korea to be inoperative. Now the North apparently is preparing to stage a missile test. Secretary Clinton called the latter "unhelpful," as if Dear Leader Kim Jong Il was a valued negotiating partner.

The government in Seoul responded with a yawn and Secretary Clinton indicated her desire for continued negotiations. But the latest emanations from Pyongyang have caused some policymakers to advocate confrontation. Philip Zelikow, late of the Bush State Department, suggests war.

This isn't the first time that U.S. officials have proposed sending in the bombers. The Clinton administration apparently came close to ordering military strikes before former President Jimmy Carter's dramatic flight to Pyongyang. And Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has spent years pondering the possibility of preventive war against the so-called Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

It was never a good idea, but the pressure for military action may grow. Selig Harrison of the Center for International Policy recently traveled to the DPRK, where he was told that existing supplies of plutonium had been "weaponized." He argues that the U.S. "can tolerate a nuclear-armed North Korea that may or may not actually have the weapons arsenal it claims," but others would put the military option back on the table.

Zelikow goes even further. He says: "whatever the merits of Harrison's suggestion when it comes to North Korea's nuclear weapons, the United States should not accept Pyongyang's development of long-range missiles systems, which can be paired with an admitted nuclear weapons arsenal, as still another fait accompli." In his view, Washington should warn the North to stand down; if the DPRK failed to comply, the U.S. should take out the missile on its launch pad.

Why? Zelikow contends that "the North Korean perfection of a long-range missile capability against the United States, Japan, or the Republic of Korea would pose an imminent threat to the vital interests of our country." To rely on deterrence, he adds, would be a "gamble."

Obviously no one wants the North to possess nuclear weapons or missiles of any kind. However, North Korean threats against the ROK and Japan are not threats against America's vital interests. Japan is the world's second ranking economic power and the South has roughly 40 times the GDP and twice the population of the North. Sooner rather than later they should be expected to defend themselves. Washington is busy enough dealing with its own geopolitical problems in the midst of an economic crisis.

Moreover, nothing in the North Korean regime's behavior suggests that Dear Leader Kim Jong Il is any less amenable to deterrence than were Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong. Kim may be many things, but there is no indication that he is suicidal. Rather, he likes his virgins in the here and now.

Of course, it would be better not to have to rely on deterrence. But a preventive strike would be no cakewalk.

If there is insanity at work on the Korean peninsula, it is the assumption that Kim would do nothing if his nation was attacked by the U.S. He might choose inaction, but more likely would see such a strike as the prelude to regime change. In that case the results of the Iraq war would impel him to act first rather than await invasion. America and South Korea would win any war, but the costs would be horrendous.

Moreover, the DPRK could easily initiate a more limited tit-for-tat retaliation. The South's capital of Seoul lies within easy range of Scud missiles and massed artillery. Even the "optimists" who believe that Seoul could be protected by massive military strikes along the Demilitarized Zone talk about holding casualties to under 100,000. Imagine Pyongyang announcing a limited bombardment in response to the U.S. action, combined with the promise of a ceasefire if the ROK blocked any further American response. Washington's Asian policy would be wrecked along with Seoul.

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. A former special assistant to Pres. Ronald Reagan, he is the author of the forthcoming book Leviathan Unchained: Washington's Bipartisan Big Government Consensus.
More by Doug Bandow

Despite the vagaries of dealing with the North, it is not the first bizarrely brutal and secretive regime with which the U.S. has dealt. Forty-some years ago there was China. The unstable Mao regime, atop a country convulsed by the bloody Cultural Revolution, was developing nuclear weapons. National Review editor William F. Buckley and New York Sen. James Buckley both pressed for a preventive attack on Beijing's nascent nuclear program. The Johnson administration considered proposals for such an assault.

The arguments were similar as those made today regarding North Korea: An unpredictable regime, the uncertainty of deterrence, and the relative ease of attack. It's impossible to know what the world would have looked like had Washington struck, but China likely would have moved closer to the Soviet Union and become more resolutely hostile to the U.S. Restraint almost certainly was the better part of valor. So, too, with North Korea today.

Of course, Washington still should work with the DPRK's neighbors in an attempt to persuade Pyongyang to abandon both its missile and nuclear ambitions. Even more important, though, would be to turn the problem of North Korea over to the surrounding states. To the extent that the North threatens anyone, it is South Korea and Japan. China and Russia are unlikely direct targets, but still have good reason to prefer a stable and peaceful Korean peninsula.

Thus, the U.S. should withdraw its 29,000 troops from the ROK, where they are vulnerable to military action by Pyongyang. Then North Korea would be primarily a problem for the ROK, China, Japan, and Russia. And the U.S. need not worry about the latest North Korean gambit.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
will there be another korean war in 2009?

http://www.hubdub.com/m42752/will_there_be_another_korean_war_in_2009

No because it is already 2010.

Background: SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) — South Korea formally announced Tuesday that it would join a U.S.-led effort to crack down on trafficking in weapons of mass destruction in response to North Korea’s new test of a nuclear bomb.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak’s government said it would join the 6-year-old Proliferation Security Initiative because of “the grave threat WMD and missile proliferation is posing to global peace,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Moon Tae-young said.

The effort is aimed at interdicting shipments of weapons technology, a rare source of hard currency for North Korea, but Moon said the south would continue to uphold a shipping agreement with the north.

North Korea previously had protested any move by South Korea to join the initiative. There was no immediate response to Tuesday’s declaration, but North Korea’s state-run news agency said in April that any effort to join the initiative would be regarded as “a declaration of war.”

with the new nuclear and missile tests, the pressure is ratcheting up on the peninsula...will either country "declare war" on the other?
i know...technically, they are still at war since there was no peace treaty, but i assume they would declare war or a re-commencement of hostilities...
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Thanks for posting these two articles from 2009 China Connection; they give good perspective. What's missing compared to now though is the issue of succession in Pyongyang. That adds a whole new dynamic to the situation.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Succession story 'shakes up' Pyongyang
By Sunny Lee

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KA27Dg01.html

BEIJING - Here we go once again with the North Korean heir game. This time, it was South Korea's Yonhap news agency that blew the whistle, generating a stampede of journalists trying to get ahead in the hottest and most tantalizing beat in the world.

Citing "well-informed" and "multiple intelligence" sources, Yonhap reported that North Korea's supreme leader Kim Jong-il had designated his third son, Jong-un, as the next ruler of the world's most mysterious country.

The ensuing media buzz over Kim's crown affairs is understandable. The succession of power in the unfathomable regime is a key political event that will transform the contours of



North Korea's power topography as well as the regional political landscape.

Since the reported designation, however, there has been no distinct change in North Korea, where the Dear Leader's word is law. If Kim really had made the decision, North Korea would likely have gone into an all-out propaganda campaign in praise of the new heir apparent. So far, Pyongyang has been calm as usual.

What is even stranger is that most experts on North Korea have remained cool, little swayed by the latest news. A remarkably large number of observers on North Korea have cast doubt on the credibility of the report.

"North Korea is like a black box. Any analysis on North Korea is a guess. You shouldn't make an analysis based on a guess," said Chu Shulong, a professor of political science at Tsinghua University in Beijing. Cheon Seong-whun, a senior research fellow at the Korea Institute for National Unification, said, "That's what Yonhap reported. I am not sure whether that's true or not."

Cheong Seong-chang, director of the Inter-Korean Relations Studies Program at the Sejong Institute, a think-tank, estimates the accuracy of the report to be about 50% or 60%. "It's hard to give more credit than that," he said. Shi Yinhong of Renmin University in China said, "Both inside and outside hearsay reports about North Korea's heir are untrustworthy."

Queries to other North Korean observers, such as Jang Song-hyon, a former president of the Royal Asiatic Society of Korea in Seoul, Zhu Feng, a well-known security expert at Peking University, as well as Shen Dingli, executive dean of the Institute of International Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai, all came back with disbelief about the newly alleged heir.

The American government-supported Radio Free Asia joined the untrusting pronouncement, citing Ken Gause of the CNA Corporation, a think-tank that does work for the Pentagon, Rudiger Frank, an Austrian expert on North Korea, and Bruce Klingner of the Brookings Institution.

The media firestorm finally slowed only when Kim's eldest son, Jong-nam, showed up in person on Saturday to explain to reporters that his father has yet to make the final appointment. "Only the father will make the decision," he said.

Who was Yonhap's source?
Going back to the much-cited and widely spread Yonhap report, a journalist from the Middle East has identified that a key mystery remains. Specifically, who was the source behind the report? Yonhap's lengthy report carried seemingly authoritative sources, but cited them anonymously. The tip may have emanated from South Korea's intelligence services.

Still, a knowledgeable person in Seoul said Yonhap was very "confident" about the report. This information emerged even after the South Korean government issued the customary and politically correct statement that "it doesn't have any information on the matter".

A veteran South Korean journalist who closely follows North Korean news said in private that the fact Yonhap cited "multiple intelligence sources" goes against the "common sense" of covering the secretive country. "My experience tells me that when a North Korean news [report] is accurate, it has only one source. North Korea is very secretive. Very few people know what's going on there. It's especially the case when it comes to the heir appointment. If they have 'multiple sources', then my gut tells me that I don't have to trust it," he said.

"The news may have been sowed intentionally," he added.

Pyongyang is said to have made extensive efforts to assure a smooth transition of power transition after North Korean leaders saw the collapse of the former Soviet Union. According to observers, North Korea believed that the demise of the Soviet Union was brought about because Moscow had failed to adequately address the issue of succession.

In Pyongyang's case, reality may betray the best intentions. Some feel that the numerous hearsay reports surrounding the North Korean heir indicate that some close associates to Kim Jong-il are engaged in some kind of power struggle or political jockeying. Maybe the conflicting reports are evidence that different factions are using propaganda to back their favorite sons.

But this chance is less likely, as one observer puts it, because "Kim Jong-il is known to watch CNN regularly. He will soon hear about the 'new heir' that he himself didn't make a decision upon. The consequence will be brutal."

Pyongyang sees the South Korean news report as nothing but propaganda fed by the South Korean government in a plot to "divide" the North Korean ruling class as its supreme leader mulls his choice of successor. North Korea must be unhappy with the report because it gives the impression that there is a "mole" within the Pyongyang leadership who leaked the secret to the world.

North Korea also fears that such "outside" news could destabilize a nation in which Kim is deified, and where any change of leadership should be announced directly from him. The news has made North Korea's leadership very angry and extremely edgy.

As a North Korean source put it, the leaked story was meant to "shake the system"; to profess false knowledge about the internal heir-selection progress and to test how cohesive the ruling class remains in this volatile transitional period.

Because of this, some analysts believe the Yonhap report was disinformation intentionally "sowed" by unnamed South Korean intelligence agents.

Sunny Lee is a Seoul-born writer and journalist. He is a graduate of Harvard University and Beijing Foreign Studies University. He can be reached at boston.sunny@yahoo.com

(Copyright 2009 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
The Kim family tree
Submitted by administrator on Fri, 02/02/2007 - 13:39
ShareThis

Friday, February 02, 2007

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/19155

Like many things in North Korea, details about the family life of leader Kim Jong-il are scarce. Here's some of what's been gleaned from diplomats, dissidents and state media:

Kim Jongil, 65: North Korea's " Dear Leader" has at least four children by three different women.

X X X

Kim Young-sook: Kim Jongil was forced by his father to marry the daughter of a senior military official. Although he does not spend much time with his first " official" wife, she remains loyal.

Kim Young-sook's daughter

Daughter ( child with Kim Youngsook): Little is known about this daughter, who plays no role in politics.

X X X

Sung Hae Rim: An actress, her relationship with Kim Jong-il was not officially recognized. After years of estrangement, she is believed to have died in exile in Moscow in 2003.

Sung Hae Rim's son:

Kim Jong-nam, 35: He had long been considered a favorite to succeed his father, until he was caught trying to enter Japan on a fake passport in a bid to visit Tokyo Disneyland.

X X X

Koh Young Hui: A former dancer, she had taken over the role of North Korea's first lady before her death in 2004, reportedly of cancer.

Koh Young Hui's sons:

Kim Jong-chol, 25: Little is known about him, except that he studied in Switzerland and is a fan of U. S. professional basketball.

Kim Jong-un, 22: He resembles his father in every way, according to the family's former sushi chef, and is thought now to be the heir apparent.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il-sung


Also in 1935 Kim took the name Kim Il-sung, meaning "become the sun."[6] By the end of the war, this name would be legendary in Korea, and some historians have claimed that it was not Kim Sŏng-ju who originally made the name famous. Soviet propagandist Grigory Mekler, who claims to have prepared Kim to lead North Korea, says that Kim assumed this name while in the Soviet Union in the early 1940s from a former commander who had died.[7] On the other hand, some Koreans simply did not believe that someone as young as Kim could have anything to do with the legend.[8] Historian Andrei Lankov has claimed that the rumor Kim Il-Sung was somehow switched with the “original” Kim is unlikely to be true. Several witnesses knew Kim before and after his time in the Soviet Union, including his superior, Zhou Baozhong, who dismissed the claim of a “second” Kim in his diaries.[9]
 

SIRR1

Deceased
Hey CC did the South say where the US will get the 695,000 troops from?

A draft I will bet...

Thanks SIRR1
 
North Korea fires more artillery near South: report

SEOUL

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:15pm EST

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60R06O20100128

(Reuters) - North Korea fired several artillery rounds on Thursday in the direction of a South Korean island off the peninsula, Yonhap news agency said, raising tension with a second day of shooting near a disputed sea border.

The rounds landed on the north's side of the disputed maritime border off the west coast of the rival states, which remain technically at war.

North Korea fired about 100 artillery rounds on Wednesday and threatened to fire more as a part of a military drill. South Korea returned fire with warning shots and said the North's move was a cause for grave concern while urging Pyongyang to stop.

South Korea's won and main stock index traded down slightly after the initial reports of the firing.
 
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/01/27/nkorea.firing/

South Korea: North resumes firing

January 28, 2010 -- Updated 0247 GMT (1047 HKT)

(CNN) -- North Korea resumed firing near its sea border with South Korea on Thursday, South Korean media said, citing Seoul officials.

Artillery shells were fired toward South Korean-controlled Yeonpyeong Island, Yonhap News Agency quoted the officials as saying, adding that the shells fell in waters north of the Northern Limit Line (NLL), the de facto inter-Korean maritime border.

The North fired artillery shells on Wednesday in the same area, saying they were part of an annual training drill.

"We have confirmed North Korea's firing of several artillery shells, but they did not cross" the two countries' maritime border, said Park Sung-woo, of Seoul's joint chiefs of staff, according to Yonhap. "We are on high military alert."

"Following the firing by North Korea, South Korea responded by shooting vulcan canons into the air, a statement that it would not be intimidated by saber-rattling by the communist neighbor," Yonhap said.

There were no reports of casualties.

Also Thursday, a South Korean Unification Ministry spokesman said that despite the tension, talks slated for Monday with North Korea would still go forward in the North Korean border town of Kaesong, Yonhap reported.

Seventeen South Korean officials are expected to attend those talks, Yonhap cited Chun Hae-sung, the official, as saying.
 
(LEAD) N. Korea restarts artillery firing near western sea border: official

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2010/01/28/29/0301000000AEN20100128003300315F.HTML

SEOUL, Jan. 28 (Yonhap) -- North Korea on Thursday resumed firing artillery shells toward a South Korean island near the inter-Korean maritime border in the Yellow Sea, a defense official in Seoul said.

North Korea began to shoot toward the South Korean island of Yeonpyeong from 8:15 a.m., with all the shells landing in the North's own waters north of the Northern Limit Line (NLL), the Seoul official said, requesting anonymity as he was unauthorized to speak to media.
Data picture

The shooting comes a day after Pyongyang fired as many as 100 shells in the waters north of the NLL, the de facto inter-Korean maritime borderline in the Yellow Sea.

North Korea watchers in Seoul speculate that Pyongyang's latest provocative gesture may be part of its attempts to pressure the U.S. and South Korea to respond to its peace treaty proposal by emphasizing that the peninsula is still a war zone. South and North Korea remain technically at war since the 1950-53 Korean War ended in an armistice, not a peace treaty.

South Korea responded with warning shots Wednesday, vowing stern counterattacks should the shells cross the NLL and reach South Korean territory.

Yeonpyeong Island is located about 80 kilometers west of the northernmost end of South Korea's mainland and 12km from the North, but it lies outside the "no-sail zones" declared by the communist state on Monday.

Due to its proximity to North Korea and waters rich in fish, the island has been a point of high tension between the divided countries. Naval skirmishes occurred in nearby waters in 1999, 2002 and last year, with three in total. South Korea has stationed 1,000 troops on the island.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Green Peace should go there as dropping shells into the water is inhuman to the fish life. Apart from this it is bullshit news as they have given warning of a military exercise in their own waters. Where is the news in that. The South Koreans are responding to what? Oh, they let off some fireworks so, so should we! Big deal.
 
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