[Pol] *IF* your vote weren't "wasted", would you vote for Bush or Kerry?

If your vote weren't "wasted", would you vote for Bush or Kerry?

  • Yes - Bush

    Votes: 105 45.5%
  • Yes - Kerry

    Votes: 35 15.2%
  • No - not this cycle, but would consider if a decent rep/dem ran in the future

    Votes: 38 16.5%
  • Not ever again. Dems and Reps are totally worthless

    Votes: 53 22.9%

  • Total voters
    231
  • Poll closed .

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I just had an interesting thought. It seems that many of us have been successfully "programmed" to believe that if we don't vote for the major party "candidates" :kk1: that our vote is wasted. Well, here's a question: "What if" your vote WASN'T wasted? What if other candidates WERE considered viable by the sheeple masses? What if an alternative candidate (like Ron Paul for example) were actually in a position to gain the WH.

WOULD YOU vote for Bush or Kerry? Would you ever vote major-party again?
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
BTW, new POLL feature: when you call up the thread after you voted, YOUR CHOICE is in <i>ITALICS.</i>
 

Brooks

Membership Revoked
Can't answer because I don't know yet what third party choices will be available in my state.
 

Watchman63

Veteran Member
I wouldn't vote for Bush or Kerry under any circumstances. Voting my conscience is all that matters to me. I'd vote for Ron Paul (AGAIN) in a heartbeat if he ran for president. Voting for a 3rd party is not wasting your vote. 3rd party voters pave the way for real change. Everybody else who votes for the two main parties that does so out of fear is only perpetuating a bad system.

If you really believe that Bush or Kerry is the best choice for this country and that is why you will vote for them, then that's great. That's your right. But if you are going to vote for one of them as the lesser of two evils, then you are only validating a system that doesn't work. If a 3rd party candidate makes a strong showing, then at the very least that tells the Big 2 that they had better look at why and change their platform accordingly if they hope to attract those voters in the future.

[edit to add]
A vote for a 3rd party candidate is never wasted unless you didn't think you should vote for that candidate in the first place. A vote for a major party is always wasted if you really didn't believe that candidate was the best choice.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
This is a philosophical question. If a decent 3rd party candidate had A REAL CHANCE of taking the election, would you abandon the Republicrats? No specifics, just WOULD YOU, assuming the person wasn't as worthless as the current duo up for election by the sheeple.
 

Brooks

Membership Revoked
If there were a decent third party candidate on my ballot I would vote for that person whether or not s/he had a chance.
 

ladydkr

Veteran Member
Absolute vote for Kerry/Edwards. No question. Need a new president, one who has more than his and his friends' pocketbooks in mind. Someone who cares about the common folk who make up this country. Today we just opened a Kerry HQ here in Taos. People are coming out of the woodwork to give money and time to win in November.

I think there is a BIG surprise in store. In fact, Republicans are LOSING voters in precincts here in Taos, while Democrats are gaining.

Just you wait!
 

calliope

Contributing Member
I'm a program failure, Dennis. Haven't voted Democrat or Republican in decades. And I have never understood "vote for the lesser or two evils or my vote will be wasted". What would a reasonable person expect to end up with from endlessly voting for the lesser or two evils? How can a third party ever become viable is no one ever votes for them?
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
Ron Paul is a 'straw man' for the folks who are pissed oof but think their vote will be wasted.

What has he done reall? Mouth off a little and claim to buck the system?

He still has a job with the rest of them and gets all the raoses and perks they all steal.
 

dieseltrooper

Inactive
I don't know yet what 3rd party players will be on the ballot here, but I truly hope that I will have a third choice, as opposed to Gvt approved choice A or Gvt approved choice B.:shk:
 

Flagwaver

Membership Revoked
I'm still not fully decided whether to vote for Peroutka or for Bush. If Peroutka was not in the running, I'd definitely vote for Bush as the lesser of two evils. To do nothing is the same as handing the presidency to an abortionist.

Fact is (in our not-so-pristine world) we have to pick the lesser of two evils with most things we buy, whether it be produce, lawn mowers or whatever. I choose the best I can.

And I sure don't understand how someone can refuse to vote for Bush or decide not to vote at all if they have their kids in a government school. If that's not choosing an evil I don't know what is. Forgive for any offense, but that's just plain logic.

As for the two Johns being for the "common people" that's ludicrous. Both men are wealthy beyond the imagination of most people. Edwards in particular has barely been present in the NC legislature, representing diddly squat. Kerry found plenty of time for campaigning last week, but said he had no time to sit in on a national security meeting. Edwards got wealthy as a trial lawyer milking doctors for all they're worth.

But there is hope. W ketchup is coming to stores soon! Seriously. I'm not joking. And I hear it's pretty good stuff. :lol:
 
Here we go again, Dennis. I have no beef with those who vote their conscience, so long as they have weighed the consequences of allowing the Dems to regain the Excecutive.

Your scenario got US 8 years of Clintonistas and a church burned down with children in it. Even a "moderate" "globalist" (or whatever) Republican like President G.H.W. Bush would assuredly have set the Nanny State back a decade or two had he held the reigns in the Republican Revolution when we had a fired up Congress for the first time in decades. The Moron B.C. still takes credit for what the GOP single-handedly did when they faced him down by shutting off the tap for a few days. There was a great deal at stake there which was basically lost opportunity because many of US believed we had to attempt a third party coup.

Call me what any of you will, but I have become enough of a pragmatist to review the possible case scenarios and decide that there is no other *viable* option than to attempt to keep the Demoncrats out by voting Republican for President in 2004.

From critical judicial appointments, to completely socialized medicine, to national defense, to energy policy, to checking extreme environmentalism, to critical moral issues like the continuing plague of infanticide, there remain stark contrasts in party platforms.

For all I know and understand of what is terribly wrong in America, and as much as I would prefer a Constitutionalist, there is only one possible way to check the further disintegration and overthrow of the Republic at this moment in time, as incremental and ineffective as it seems.

I don't expect the amoral or the spiritually dead to understand or agree, and I am no one's judge, but I am here to say to any professing Christian that you are first going to personally participate in the soon coming judgments in completely different measure, you are going to be in shock as to how rapidly the righteous remains of America will be dismantled in the present circumstances, and if you live, you will rue the day you enabled blatant and declared wickedness to retake the Executive, should you sacrifice the present checks to opening the floodgates of hell (feeble and inadequate as they seem) on our Nation and People for some idealistic pipe dream.

Mrs. Kerry is a hard-core communistic One-Worlder, and John has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. Is that truly what you want?

Yea, yea, I've heard it all, from bring it on down then, to it's not "wasting" your vote, but I feel this one coming like an enemy in the night, friends, if we don't rally to maintain some continuity in the Executive Branch at this time. Something wicked this way comes.

I truly wish it were different than that, or that it wasn't about who I trust less, but it is, and that's that.

Count the cost, choose a side and step along...

Tras
 
Last edited:

don24mac

Veteran Member
Of course. I like to think I'm voting the the BEST candidate. The one who will be best for America. Whether he's/she's Republcan, Democrat, Independent, or whatever, if they're the best candidate IMO, they get my vote.

I've voted Republican, Democrat, and Independent over the years.

P.S. Dennis, I think your question could be worded more clearly. For me it was hard to initially understand. Because of that, the results may not show what you were asking. JMHO
 

Maiden

Membership Revoked
Brooks said:
If there were a decent third party candidate on my ballot I would vote for that person whether or not s/he had a chance.

I am with Brooks on this one. However, there is not a place on the poll to make such a vote so I did not vote on this poll.
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Once again,

Either the Constitution Party or the Libertarian Party get my vote, assuming either is on the Virginia ballot. If both are, I'll go Libertarian.

If neither are, I'm writing in Ron Paul (R. (hah!) Texas).

I know my vote won't "count" (and with electronic balloting this may be literally true). However, I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that I didn't personally cause the train wreck that's coming.

And for those who are upset with Kerry, and think my vote is a waste. . . . Let me quote from our Beloved Leader . . . "Bring it on." I'm prepped and still prepping. I'd rather get this train wreck over soon, so we can rebuild while I'm still young enough to experience a free country again.

David
 

Bearded Weirdo

Inactive
Dennis Olson said:
This is a philosophical question. If a decent 3rd party candidate had A REAL CHANCE of taking the election, would you abandon the Republicrats? No specifics, just WOULD YOU, <b>assuming the person wasn't as worthless as the current duo up for election by the sheeple.</b>

Well said, escpecially the bold part.
 

Carlos

Inactive
Living in California it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference unless we dump the electoral college system. May sound odd given the green rep we have but if you could read the editorials & local news commentary out here you'd understand. Ralph is getting pillaged not because of 2002 but because he bucks the dem's machine. We & our 55 electoral votes are in the bag for any dem that shows up.
:shk:
 

Deemy

Veteran Member
You haven't mentioned Nader...he is still trying to get in...if he does I'll vote for the guy just cause I don't like the other two and I did vote for Bush last time
 

notred

Inactive
Shock Wave Rider said:
By the poll it is easy to see the incredible slant of the board to Bush, - not even close to the national average...

He is the devil we know, not some hypothetical, maybe kinda like Ron Paul or some sorta alternative third party that never have been able to get their acts together for a real modern day full in the spotlight media campaign and never will.

Perot came close and that gave us Clinton, thank you very much.

The ballsiest of them all is Nadar. At least he understands and admits what his campaign will cost the Democrats. And the democratic leaders can do the math as well and fear him. Wish some TB2Kers were as good with a calculator.
 

BugoutBear

Inactive
Rather than a constitutional amendment banning homos from marrying, I'd prefer to see an amendment allowing "None of the Above" on the national ballot.

This way, if the majority of votes came up for "None of the Above," they'd have to select new candidates and do it over again.

What we have to choose from now IMO sucks.

BugoutBear
 

kanuck57

Membership Revoked
A statement by US Supreme Court Judge Scalia on Bush vs Gore vote recount....."Americans have no right to vote for the president of the United States. They have a limited right to vote for the Electors and they in turn decide who if anyone will be the President of the US."

.......and Sherman Skolnick goes on the explain the Electoral College.

From a interview with Sherman Skolnick. Listen at:
http://www.talkone.com/rensearchives.htm

Wednesday - July 7, 2004
Hour 3 - Sherman Skolnick - Iraq And Edwards
Click and listen-WinMediaPlayer:
http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/talkoneonline/rense/rense_070704_hr3.wax


Sherman Skolnick`s website-CITIZENS' COMMITTEE TO CLEAN UP THE COURTS.:
http://www.skolnicksreport.com/
 

Sharon

Inactive
Thanks for the poll Dennis! It'd be nice if we could have the same poll (or a similar one) every month, and then bi-weekly and then weekly as the elections near. I'd like to see how this board votes and why.

The results thus far shocked me...but I guess that just tells me once again how little I know.
 

SKTRGNLDR

Contributing Member
Vote BADNARIK for President...he's the Libertarian Candidate!

THIS IS IMPORTANT...for those of you who might not know, the Libertarian Party is the ONLY 3rd party that has been and will be on the ballot in 49 out of the 50 states.

If at all, the most states ballots the Green, Constitution, and other 3rd parties have been on is 10-15. Although a candidate can be "written in", without being listed on the "official" ballot, they don't have a chance.
 

piggyandpeewee

Membership Revoked
I am not going to vote, but my attitude has changed since the "love in" at MSG in NYC

Thursday night. The Democrats have a very poor memory when
it comes to their "Hollywood" blind spot and if they keep it up it's going to come back to bite them in the ass.

The average and more importantly informed American citizen does not want to see a repeat of BJ Clinton's eight years of slavish devotion to the assorted druggies, whores and "artists"
who entertain us with their bodies and vile orifices (take your pick). It is obvious that Kerry/Edwards are likewise dazzled by
this pack of wolves that smile and laugh as they devour human flesh. Just as the War on Terror is a clash of civilizations, so too is the culture war in our own nation.

Before anyone fires back, let me assure you I am not naive and certainly not a prude, but the idea of "Oopsie" Goldberg
and the others (Michael Moore, et al) sharing the stage with
a President of the United States turns my stomach. And the
fact that neither candidate on the Dem ticket (unlike Joe Lieberman in 2000) is strong enough to disown the traveling burlesque show that is the Demo campaign tells me all I need to know about either Kerry or Edwards.

On second thought, I may just register... :sht:
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
a third party candidate, even if he/she won, would have no 3rd party supporters in Congress.

i will vote for Bush because the choice this cycle is whether America will hit the brick wall of World Socialism at 50 mph or 500 mph.
Trasael said it all.
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
In that case, Trasael,

I'm sure you know about frogs and pots of warm water. How do you cook them? Turn the heat up slowly. If it's fast, they have this bad tendency of wanting to leave the pot.

Clinton was a joke. The Republicans controlled Congress since 1994. Nothing was enacted since then that wasn't approved of by both parties.

From Scarface - "Say hello to my little friend" . . . NAFTA.

I might actually vote for Hillary if she ran and I thought it would get most of the lazy butts in America to jump out of the cooking pot.

And, Jed, I'm sure turtles fare about the same in cooking pot water as frogs.

Write-in your next door neighbor for Congress if you can't think of someone else. At least write-in ballots are not electronic.

David

[Edited to add - A little while ago, I realized I wasn't a conservative because I don't want to conserve what we have now. I'm either a reactionary or revolutionary, but I don't know which. And Dennis, while I love George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, I'm still not a freemason, but I share their revolutionary ideals. And that's what their ideals are again, envisioned ideals, because we don't have them and we must strive for them once again.]
 

Squid

Veteran Member
Wasted is the only way to vote

And come to think of it remember
Chicago voting rules: Vote early and Vote often....
 

Tweakette

Irrelevant
I haven't voted mainstream parties in years. Up here it doesn't matter, as Vermont is so far left that you need a telescope to see it. The Dems always win by a huge margin, so I feel free to use my vote to register a protest.

Over the past few years I've voted for Perot and Harry Brown, and also written in Colin Powell, Ron Paul and "Alfred E. Neumann" (from Mad magazine, just out of sheer picque). But Neumann may have been for governor, I don't remember.

If there was a viable 3rd party candidate I would vote for them. And if my vote actually could swing the my state to Bush I would hold my nose and vote for him because Edwards The Lawyer is going to bankrupt us if Kerry/Edwards gets in. But since there's no viable 3rd party and since VT goes Dem by such a huge margin I'll continue my creative voting. Maybe Paul/Tancredo, just for grins.

Tweak
 

Kamelot

Contributing Member
Id vote for Kerry, this being my first vote and all that (Just turned 18) But I want someone other then Bush in office.
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Kamelot,

What is it you like about Kerry, and why are you voting FOR him? Being against Bush is fine, but do you agree with a billionaire (by marriage) who wants to tax most workers to buy votes from those don't work?

Your conscience is clean if you vote for anyone other than Bush. Please, however, vote for someone you actually believe in. If you think Bush is Satan, then don't worry. The economy is going to tank within the next year or so. Anyone who is President will be blamed. Might as well let Bush be the next Hoover. (FYI - Hoover was really an honest, upstanding, compassionate man.)

David
 

l0kster

Inactive
until we get change it's the lesser of 2 evils

I keep saying we need to get rid of the 2-party monopoly so that we don't end up choosing the lesser of 2 evils every time.

In my opinion, the only way to change the monopoly is to reform campaign financing. 3rd party candidates face a huge uphill fight getting media coverage and financing - especially at the local and state levels.

Maybe the next few election cycles we need to boycott both the dems and repubs and vote ONLY for 3rd-party folks (on either left or right) and get some new blood in the system.

www.publiccampaign.org
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Need a new president, one who has more than his and his friends' pocketbooks in mind.

He has in mind the pocketbooks of the wealthy. He is going to loot them and give you goodies. And you are going to like those goodies so much that you will never give them up. I guarantee it. And as the demand for those goodies is insatiable, they will constantly re-define 'wealthy' downward to pay for them. I guarantee that too.

I keep saying we need to get rid of the 2-party monopoly so that we don't end up choosing the lesser of 2 evils every time.

To learn how to do it wrong, always look to the French first. They had so many political parties that they could never form a governmen until DeGaulle changed the system. Some here may think that is a fine thing. Read the history of France 1919-1940. You will change your mind, unless of course, you really are an idiot.


The Republicans controlled Congress since 1994

They control the House. To control the Senate, they would need at least 64 Reps to balance out the RINOS. They don't have them, so they don't control the Senate.
 

Kamelot

Contributing Member
Kimber said:
Kamelot,

What is it you like about Kerry, and why are you voting FOR him? Being against Bush is fine, but do you agree with a billionaire (by marriage) who wants to tax most workers to buy votes from those don't work?

Your conscience is clean if you vote for anyone other than Bush. Please, however, vote for someone you actually believe in. If you think Bush is Satan, then don't worry. The economy is going to tank within the next year or so. Anyone who is President will be blamed. Might as well let Bush be the next Hoover. (FYI - Hoover was really an honest, upstanding, compassionate man.)

David
Basically and IMHO, Kerry is the lesser of the two evils. I may not know much about politics and I may never know much about it, but I go with my gut feelings, and my gut feeling says to vote for Kerry. As for my reasoning, I dont neccessarly need to provide it.
 

Sharon

Inactive
Kamelot: For a youngster (hope you don't mind me calling you that, I have grandchildren your age), that was very well put...good for you!
 

Bearded Weirdo

Inactive
BugoutBear said:
Rather than a constitutional amendment banning homos from marrying, I'd prefer to see an amendment allowing "None of the Above" on the national ballot.

This way, if the majority of votes came up for "None of the Above," they'd have to select new candidates and do it over again.

What we have to choose from now IMO sucks.

BugoutBear

BoB, Just curious as to who you would put on the ballot.
 
Top