[OT] Car problems!

[BaywaterRoss]

I was on my way back from the Tampa gun show about an hour ago, and my car started bucking like a mule. The show is about 40 miles from me. My only car... it's the 1987 Ford Crown Victoria station wagon that I refer to as the Battle Wagon. The car has 87,000 miles, a 5.0 V-8, and overdrive auto transmission.

The problem occurred when I stopped off the highway for a few minutes. I'd been cruising normally at 55mph and got off the interstate. When I started forward again, the car started shuddering. It continued like that even at speed and was bucking the remaining half of the trip home. Felt like it would shake the car apart.

Transmission fluid & oil are at normal levels.

Any thoughts on what this may be, and how serious it is? I can't afford a new tranny.

 

[nanna]

Suggest you check your throttle sensor ... another symptom is if your car revs or speeds up without you applying gas ...

Good luck.



nanna

edited to add: this happened to us this summer with an 89 CV sedan ...

 

[Imaginethat!]

My dad had a CV (sedan) and I think I remember something like this happening to him. I think he had stopped to wait to make a left hand turn. It was a long time ago though. A REALLY long time ago. Probably at least 10 years ago.

My dad is pretty old now and his memory really sucks sometimes, but I'll ask and see what happens.

If my memory is right a lot of mechanics looked at it and had no idea, and then it ended up being a small $20 thing, of course not adding the price of the different garages.

I hope someone else can help you sooner. I won't see my ad for a while because of this mountain of snow.

Sorry aobut the car, that is a real pain. We've been there a few times with our 'only' cars.

Imaginethat!

 

[Opus Dei]

I take it that it does not shudder at idle? Starts fine?

1) Does it start shuddering if you put it into gear while idling?

2) Does it shudder in, say, drive-but not reverse?

3) You said fluid level was fine. Did it smell burned or look unnaturally dark?

4) Fuel filter been changed periodically?

This could be as simple as a heat/age-cracked vacuum line. That could do anything from affect emissions controls to distributor advance to maybe shifting. This could also be a fuel pump problem.

That car has so few miles for the age, I'd be inclined to think it's not something major. Good luck.

 

[lanod]

The way you describe it sounds a lot more like engine problems than your transmission. A good transmission shop shop could check the trans, but a good tune up shop will probably fix the problem. The trans in your car usually doesn't act that way. By the way, if it is an overdrive transmission there are no vacuum lines to it.

 

[BaywaterRoss]

Thanks for the input folks! I just went out and did more testing per the comments here.

The engine starts quickly without difficulty. Smooth idle.

The car did not shudder when I put it into reverse just now. I pulled forward, then backed it into it's normal parking place. No problem.

The trans fluid is clear and does not smell burned.

I have only had the car since February, and put about 5,000 miles on it in that time. Haven't changed the fuel or air filters during that time.

 

[don24mac]

Have you thought about possible water in the gas. This can happen over time from condensation, especially in a humid climate like Florida.

See if adding a can of drygas helps. It certainly won't hurt. Because it was running Ok and only happened after you got back out on the highway, it could be there's enough water in your tank to just begin to get sucked into the fuel pump.

Edited to add: Remember, always check the least expensive and simplist things first. drygas cost around a dollar.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

Ross,

The majority of problems like this are caused by faulty ignition. The fuel system should be a secondary suspect.

I would try the following:

- First, a new distributor rotor and cap. Carbon arcing or burnt contacts can display symptoms like you've described.

- If that doesn't fix it, put on a new set of ignition wires, including the coil wire. Age and heat take their toll on these; again bad wires match the symptoms you've described.

- If the first two options don't fix the problem, don't get upset. Odds are are that your car needed these parts anyhow. And you'll still be out less than 60 bucks.

- I would next check, in this order: spark plugs, vacuum lines, fuel contamination, fuel filter. Any more than that - take it to a shop and let them run diagnostics on it. Let us know how it shakes out.

 

[Jerry]

Ross -

I'm with Roger on this. I had an 84 Dodge that would drip water onto the distributor cap whenever the hood was opened and water was present. It was pretty consistent that moisture would end up inside the distributor cap, and the spark would arc in the carbon/moisture combo on the inside surface of the cap. The spark would arc to a different plug and that would show up as out of time, backfire, stumble, run smooth for a minute or so and start over.

The quick check (presuming some comfort with working on engine) is remove the distributor cap, wipe inside and rotor with clean, dry, lintfree cloth, spray lightly with WD-40, reassemble, and try it. If it works okay then new rotor and cap are indicated. If there are more than 25,000 miles on the wires and especially the plugs then they should change too. Good luck, J.

 

[BaywaterRoss]

More details:

The engine revs normally without hesitation or misfire.

The problem is severe at about 35mph, and very noticeable at 55mph. Enough to make one worry a lot. Happens in OD & Drive, but seems to disappear in 1st & 2nd. It also goes away when I nail the throttle smartly... not WOT, but heavy footed.

The feel of the problem is more seat of the pants than up front. Although it could be the engine, is sure runs smoothly. One thing I'll do tomorrow during daylight is to get a can of drygas. I did put ten bucks worth of gas in it this morning on the way to the show.

Thanks again for all the great input.

 

[onderock]

BWR-

Universal Joints perhaps?

I had an old Ford LTD in 1976 when I lived in the States, and that sure caused what you're describing to me.

---onderock---

 

[dero50]

Did you, by chance, have the emergency brake on while you stopped. Even if you released it, they can stick at times. It will act like that and you'll have really bad gas mileage. It can also damage your transmission.

Don't ask how I know all this.

 

[BaywaterRoss]

BWR-

Universal Joints perhaps?

I had an old Ford LTD in 1976 when I lived in the States, and that sure caused what you're describing to me.

---onderock---

Very interesting! Could very well be. The problem does abate at high revs in 1st & 2nd... and the trans does shift smartly without any lag.

 

[onetimer]

I had the same problem at 55mph with a Toyota truck. After lots of diagnosis it was the spark plug wires, I had 1 go bad. Replaced them and truck ran normal. Your symptoms sound VERY familiar.

 

[Opus Dei]

U-joints make a "clunk" as torque is applied. Really noticeable when you let off the gas/accelerate.

It seems it's related to RPM. Still could be a vacuum issue, a plugged catalytic converter, or ignition issue. The fuel pump could be starting to go out, or be a fuel obstruction starving the motor at higher RPMs.

Change the fuel filter, and probably wouldn't hurt to do what Jerry and Roger T. said about the ignition.

 

[Green Co.]

Similar problem with a Chevy...was the electric fuel pump in the gas tank. Would put out enough fuel for a few minutes, then the fuel pressure would drop, causing the bucking, misfiring.

I changed the fuel filter first, then had to take it to the shop to get the fuel pressure tested to find the problem.

FWIW

 

[1911user]

I've had that problem before and it was the fuel pump just before it quit completely. It could be the fuel filter or an obstucted line or fuel pump. Definitely check the fuel pressure to the engine then work backwards if it is low.

 

[WFK]

Check also the ignition coil! They are made with epoxy these days and their enemy is age and heat.
FEEL the coil surface and see if you notice any deformation or bulges.
At first such failure is temperature (of coil) dependent but can then lead to sudden total failure. In my case I had to be towed out of an intersection!
The genius shop replaced the computer, then the air sensor until they found the ignition coil as real cause. (I got the defective coil because I asked for all replaced parts to be kept for me. It had a bulge off the side, which did not happen at the intersection but long before.)

Anyone who to whom I described the initial problems pointed to gas, pump, filter, plugs, ignition wires, distributor cap, etc. It was ignition after all, but in an unexpected way.

 

[Black Seal]

I hate car problems...come to chat and we will sort it all out..

 

[BaywaterRoss]

Thanks Seal man! But at 0130 this morning, I had been asleep for two hours already!

Anyhoo...

I test drove it this afternoon, and am more confident that it actually is an engine problem. Most likely the ignition or fuel system. Probably just needs routine maintenance.

It starts fine and idles smoothly in neutral & park, but does stumble/hesitate in gear. No clicking or clunking like u-joints or motor mounts.

It’ll be next weekend before I’m able to check it further, but will let you know what I find afterwards.

 

[ofuzzy1]

You can shimmy underneath and wiggle the drive shaft to check the U Joint. If it wiggles you need U Joints.

I'd vote for the sparkplug wires. Just try pushing them all back on - at both ends.

Remember when changing the wires, do ONE AT A TIME!!!!! The whole task, remove from the cap and the sparkplug and replace with a new wire, then move on. Other wise it will really make things worse.

I do suggest you use surgical gloves, it sure cuts down on the hand scrubbing time.

 

[Walrus Whisperer]

My Dad was one of the BEST mechanics anywhere. He could snoop around under any hood or engine and figure out what the problem was in no time.
He always said: If you think its the carburator or fuel related, CHECK THE DITSRIBUTER AND RELATED PARTS! 99 times out of a 100, it will be the distributer/spark plug/wires. Its worked for me for many years.

 

[Bearded Weirdo]

I'd vote with the people who suggest adding drygas to the fuel supply. But I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on t.v.

 

[Warren Bone]

Sounds like the drive shaft is about to fall out to me. That's what happens when it gets very loose...a lot of "lag" and play when it's just coasting along; is very evident when you are in a higher gear and you let off the gas...

Ever drive a straight shift vehicle, and try to drive it in too high a gear? Same sensation...clunkity clunk!

Hope he gets it fixed before he gets stranded somewhere.

Good luck.
warren.

 

[intothatgoodnight]

Have a 1990 Ford that uses a crank-shaft triggered coil pack -- went bad suddenly, with no warning -- apparently, 1990 vintage T-Bird coil packs were known to fail earlier than might be expected -- with a crank-shaft triggered coil pack, you have no distributor, cap, rotor or points. Don't know if your vintage Ford uses a traditional distributor set-up vs. coil pack -- FWIW, my spark plug wires have 130+K miles on them, with no problems.

Neighbor's car would not start last week -- she wandered over to ask my opinion -- said it had been idling rough recently, and was taking several cranks to get the motor to catch -- after poking around under the hood, I dropped a bottle of dry gas into the tank, and managed to get the car to start with the aid of a spray can of ether -- idled rough/smooth intermittently -- left it idling for 30 minutes or so -- gave her another bottle of dry gas, and told her to add it to her next gas tank refill -- took care of the problem, and car starts/runs perfectly, once again.

I vote for fuel contamination or feed/pressure problems first, followed by ignition hiccups.

Presume that you are running Ford's AOD 4-speed overdrive transmission -- FWIW, there have been some reported driving funkyness from goofed converter lockup control mechanisms that lock-unlock the converter randomly -- your problem doesn't sound like a tranny problem, from your description.

Good luck.


intothegoodnight

 

[BaywaterRoss]

Mods - if ya wanna move this to the new shade tree thingy, that's fine with me.


All better!

It just needed routine maintenance. I replaced the rotor button, distributor cap, air filter, and 5 of the 8 plugs and wires. Couldn't reach the remaining 3 with the tools I have. Of the 5 plugs I did replace, 4 were tan and worn normally. They'd opened up to .070 thousandths. Normal is .050 thousandths. The 5th one was loose in the cylinder head and severely oil fouled.

It's running smooth again though!

I'll take it to a local garage and have them replace the remaining 3 plugs and wires. (I left the old wires on as indicators of which plugs need to be replaced.)

I'm glad to have the ol' Battle Wagon back again!

 

[Pathfinder]

Good to see you happy motoring again.

 

[kjacks]

Darn! Just when I had it figgered out, you get it fixed! I was sure it was a 'tater in the tailpipe.......

 

[The Mountain]

Something else to look at, related to the post about U-joints. I had a 73 El Camino SS for a while, and it did the same exact thingas your wagon. As it turned out, the slip joint on the drive shaft had jammed, and the tiny back-and-forth motion imparted by the Ujoint was bouncing the car pretty severely. I had to get a new driveshaft for about $110, plus replace the tailshaft bearing on the tranny, but it was smooth as silk after that.


Ne'mind. Posted before finishing the thread. I'll leave the detail in as yet a third thing to look at should anyone ever have this problem again.

 

[BaywaterRoss]

Something else to look at, related to the post about U-joints. I had a 73 El Camino SS for a while, and it did the same exact thingas your wagon. As it turned out, the slip joint on the drive shaft had jammed, and the tiny back-and-forth motion imparted by the Ujoint was bouncing the car pretty severely. I had to get a new driveshaft for about $110, plus replace the tailshaft bearing on the tranny, but it was smooth as silk after that.


Ne'mind. Posted before finishing the thread. I'll leave the detail in as yet a third thing to look at should anyone ever have this problem again.

Could be that my u-joints are worn some too. I do get a "little" clunk when putting it into gear.

But I guess running on 7 cylinders can seem like a lot of things!

Thanks again for all your help folks!
--BWR