ALERT Oath Keepers warn of Enemy Expatriation Act

Jeff Allen

Producer
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/01/04/michael-lemieux-ndaa-follow-up-and-further-treasonous-acts/

Fair use:

NDAA FOLLOW-UP AND FURTHER TREASONOUS ACTS
By Michael LeMieux
January 4, 2012
NewsWithViews.com
Directly on the heels of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), that arguably makes US Citizens detainable by the military, comes the coup de grace in the form of a new bill called the “Enemy Expatriation Act.”
But before I get into this bill let me preface that with a few observations.
First, our nation was founded upon the principle of individual liberty and self-determination. A belief that all men were created equal and endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights imbued within each of us at the time of our birth. We did not, and do not, derive our rights from government and therefore cannot legally have them taken from us by that government.
Second, as our Declaration of Independence states, the purpose of government is to secure the rights of its citizens, and as important, they derive their powers from the consent of the people. I ask you to think upon the following question in light of the previous statement: If the government derives its power from the people, how can the government wield power that the people do not have? If the people do not have such a power then the government, on their behalf, cannot likewise yield such power.
Third, the federal government was created by consent and compact, a Constitution. Within that Constitution the branches of government were laid out, defined, and scope assigned. Each branch of government was given certain powers to act for the betterment of the nation as representatives of a collective set of nation states that recognized the need for a single voice in foreign matters and as an arbiter between the states to ensure regular trade and commerce between the states and settle disputes.
To ensure that the federal government did not go further than the prescribed powers they enumerated the legislative powers of the government to a few distinct areas (Article 1, Section 8). But they went a step further, to emphasize the point to the federal government and to put to rest some resistance within the states, that federal government would not stay confined, they added the Tenth Amendment stating: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Now I ask of you; with the enormity of our federal government, with its massive spending, size, and laws that reaches into every aspect of every citizen’s life, is our government today one of limited power? I think the answer is a blatant no.
So how does a government, such as ours, go from limited power that literally had no direct impact on the lives of the citizens of the states to one of tyrannical proportions? You cannot make improvements to your own property without permission and paying a tribute. You have the flow of toilets and shower heads dictated to you on what you can and cannot have. We have been using incandescent light bulbs for years but now the government is forcing you to use highly toxic, mercury filled, bulbs (for our own good). And the list of expansive government powers is as long as the list of government agencies and sub-agencies within the federal government. But it did not happen overnight.
We have heard from those of this administration that they do not want crises to go to waste. This is not a new concept – every major governmental expansion has been preceded by one crises or another, manufactured or real, it does not matter. Politicians know that they can take advantage of the public, using their positions of power, during times of national crises and pass laws they know they would not be able to do otherwise.
Inch by inch, nudge by nudge, taking more and more power with each passing legislative session until one day we will (have) awake to find ourselves living under an unconstitutional tyrannical government. I do not say this lightly, I have spent most of my adult life in the service of my country and have offered up my life if need be, but I am abhorred by what I have seen her become.
This brings me to this newest legislation by “our representatives” in Congress. This is Senate bill S. 1698, entitled as the “Enemy Expatriation Act.” This bill is two pages, a novelty in the age of 1,000+ page bills, and states (relevant parts):
SEC. 2. LOSS OF NATIONALITY.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481) is amended—
(1) in subsection (a)—
(A) in each of paragraphs (1) through (6), by striking ‘‘or’’ at the end;
(B) in paragraph (7), by striking the period at the end and inserting ‘‘; or’’; and
(C) by adding at the end the following: ‘‘(8) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States.’’; and
(2) by adding at the end the following:
‘‘(c) For purposes of this section, the term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war.’’
(b) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.—Section 351(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1483(a)) is amended by striking ‘‘(6) and (7)’’ and inserting ‘‘(6), (7), and (8).”
————— End of Bill
For those not familiar with legislative bills there may not be anything that stands out from the above bill wording – and that is by design. By just reading the words above, under the title of “Immigration and Nationality Act”, we see that this affects those people who are “engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States.”
One would reasonably conclude that what they are talking about would be those terrorist spies who come to America and gain citizenship and use that access to attack us, right? I’m sure that is part of the reasoning but who else is caught up in this legislation and would be affected by it?
Well if we look at the underlying US Code that it is modifying we see that the “who” this is targeting is (8 U.S.C. 1481):
“(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—“(Emphasis added)
Just as the wording was placed in the NDAA to include US Citizens here too you have to follow the crumbs of obfuscated law back to the source. And if you have any doubt that a national, born or naturalized, is a “Citizen of the United States;” Black’s Law Dictionary, Version 7 gives the generic and specific definitions. The common term national means simply “a member of a nation.” Then under the specific “national of the United States,” and this is who our laws are written for, it states “A citizen of the United States or a noncitizen who owes permanent allegiance to the United States… Also termed U.S. national; U.S. citizen.” In the eyes of the government the terms are synonymous.
This law could have been written to be very specific by stating that any naturalized citizen engaged in these activities would fall under this law, but they did not. Are they inept, stupid, morons? Some may think so; I think they knew exactly who they were targeting.
We have seen and heard from the Department of Homeland Security of persons they consider a threat to national security and to the government of the United States. They are returning combat veterans who would have the skill of arms and combat, single issue voters such as abortion, gun rights, 10th Amendment, etc., people with Ron Paul bumper stickers or gun rights bumper stickers, or people who believe in the Constitution. These people have been portrayed by the DHS, and the FBI as potential terrorists.
Let me pose a hypothetical scenario to you: let’s say that government X over many decades or even centuries has slowly become oppressive and tyrannical toward its own people and was operating outside of the lawful powers it was given by those people. After years of voting, replacing representatives, and using the governmental systems of change the government still gets worse and worse. One day a few sporadic individuals across the nation decided to try and stop this encroachment by whatever means necessary. How would that tyrannical government portray those individuals? As a terrorist? As a belligerent? Would they try and strip them of their citizenship so they would not have the protections of law and can be dealt with as enemy of the government – though they are clearly not enemies of the people, for they are of the people.
This is exactly what they are trying to do with this legislation. But what is even more insidious is that they state that because you strive to protect your nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that because you disagree with the government (not the Constitution) that you, by your actions have committed an “act of expatriation… [and] shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily.”
We have already seen the expansion of who the government considers a terrorist threat, which by the way include some retired generals and high ranking military personnel. Now they can just nudge the law just a little bit and have American citizens deemed enemies of the federal government, strip them of their citizenship and treat them as they see fit.
If at any time in our history we needed men and women to stand for what is right, not just what is easy, and to obey your oath to the Constitution of the United States, IT IS NOW! You did not swear to support a government, a general, a President, or any other person of any position, you swore and oath to Support and Defend the Constitution. Not a piece of paper but the ideals of Liberty and Freedom, the last vestige of true freedom upon the face of this earth
Now is the time to tell Washington they are wrong, they have overstepped their Constitutional authority and must stand down.
How do we do this? Through our state governments! We must phone, visit, email, write letters, create groups of concerned citizens and demand that they stop this continual infringement on the state and the people’s powers and pass laws that will make unconstitutional federal laws enacted within their boundaries a crime to enforce and arrest any federal agent trying to do so in your state.
The federal government has enjoyed a long train of usurpation of powers through legislative trickery such as what we have seen over the past 50 years, from both sides of the isle. It is not a Republican or Democrat issue it is a Liberty and Tyranny issue. If we do not fight this now through the peaceful channels left for us we will undoubtedly fight them in the most horrific way. I have seen the horror of battle first hand and we do not want this on our shores, but there is a groundswell that sees too much of history being repeated here that will lead to nothing good if we do not stop this now and return to the rule of law and the basis of the that law is the Constitution.
© 2012 Michael LeMieux – All Rights Reserved

J
 

Jeff Allen

Producer
And the email I sent my friends:



The NDAA (the “right”, of government, to indefinitely detain CITIZENS without trial, and even if acquitted at trial, to still be able to be held for the rest of their lives) passed and was signed into law on December 31st, 2011.

Not content with that power, and the sticky unconstitutional issue of holding a citizen in violation of their fundamental rights, con-gress has decided to move on to the “enemy expatriation” act.

WHO is an “enemy”? Well, anyone taking “action” against the government of the United States. Notice it doesn’t say someone disagreeing with the Constitution…far from it….just taking “action” against the government is cause to label you an official “enemy” for the purposes of this bill. Ask yourself, how long will it be before you will be considered an “enemy” if you SPEAK OUT against what the government is doing? How long before receiving this sort of seditious email is considered a “dangerous act” in and of itself? This is a matter of time and degrees in my opinion. Considering it is FACT that the Patriot Hunter Act allows total surveillance of all communications by all Americans, you should NEVER vote for anyone who voted for that trash, which feeds right into these other items. Tyranny does not come in one fell swoop, but by time and degrees…bit by bit.

DHS and FBI are already on record stating that returning vets and folks who think the Constitution are important are potential “terrorists”. (are you starting to get the irony here? People who swore to uphold the Constitution, the Law of the Land, are held suspect by their own government, who SHOULD be using the Constitution as the rule, but obviously IS NOT)

Anyway, now after they whisk you away in the dead of night, they can legally deport you and remove your citizenship and rights as well. Hmmmm….and folks wondered why it was a bad idea to assume those guys in orange suits at Gitmo are somehow sub human and without rights. Do you see why that thinking was a bad idea now? You, or someone you know could end up in this situation if we don’t do some radical reversal!

Learn more here, complete with excerpts from the 2 page bill: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/01/04/michael-lemieux-ndaa-follow-up-and-further-treasonous-acts/

Peace,

J

PS, just keep telling yourself “it can’t happen here”. That’s what nice pasty white hard working folks just like you said just a few decades ago in Germany. Do you think the 30 million killed by Stalin realized they were “next”? Of course, if you are a good boy or girl and swear allegiance to the New Reich (after all, that silly old “constitution” just didn’t allow for the security concerns of a “modern” world), all will be well….well, until someone doesn’t like something about you and they “report” you that is. Sleep tite!
 
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ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Consider this. To WHAT nation or place do they propose to ship UNWANTED AMERICAN CITIZENS, BY BIRTH? What nation WANTS, would accept our own, natural born, American citizens?
I propose that this government actually thinks stripping it's own natural born citizens of their citizenship would not only make them a man without a country, BUT A PERSON WITHOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, subject to indefinite imprisonment without trial at Guantanamo (or some other American established island of injustice, OUTSIDE any national or international rule of law) WITHOUT the pressure of any nation demanding an accounting of what is being done there to one of it's citizens.

Another thing to consider....Is your IDENTITY something that you possess inalienbly? Can your right to assert WHO YOU ARE be subject to fees, fines, revocation, LICENSE? Try asserting who you are WITHOUT a "driver's license" or other government issued identity papers, WHICH RIDICULOUSLY, CAN EXPIRE making YOUR IDENTITY certification invalid and are a document carefully controlled by the government.
We are entering an era wherin TRUTH IS IRRELATIVE to your "defense" against irrational, oppressive laws.
 
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sssarawolf

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Consider this. To WHAT nation or place do they propose to ship UNWANTED AMERICAN CITIZENS, BY BIRTH? What nation WANTS, would accept our own, natural born, American citizens?
I propose that this government actually thinks stripping it's own natural born citizens of their citizenship would not only make them a man without a country, BUT A PERSON WITHOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, subject to indefinite imprisonment without trial at Guantanamo (or some other American established island of injustice, OUTSIDE any national or international rule of law) WITHOUT the pressure of any nation demanding an accounting of what is being done there to one of it's citizens.

Another thing to consider....Is your IDENTITY something that you possess inalienbly? Can your right to assert WHO YOU ARE be subject to fees, fines, revocation, LICENSE? Try asserting who you are WITHOUT a "driver's license" or other government issued identity papers, WHICH RIDICULOUSLY, CAN EXPIRE making YOUR IDENTITY certification invalid and are a document carefully controlled by the government.
We are entering an era wherin TRUTH IS IRRELATIVE to your "defense" against irrational, oppressive laws.

It is so heart breaking to see what our Nation has come to.
 

Dio

Veteran Member
Rise up! Call, write, speak, complain!
If we do not use the soap box..........
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"We are entering an era wherin TRUTH IS IRRELATIVE to your "defense" against irrational, oppressive laws."

We are entering the era (have entered it a while back, IMO) in which the "truth" is entirely irrelevant to TPTB. They are incapable of speaking it, they choose not to recognize it, they will argue that no such thing even exists. But then what would one expect from the followers of the Father of Lies?
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Rise up! Call, write, speak, complain!
If we do not use the soap box..........

With sincere and deep respect, that wont do any good. Been there. Done that.

TPTB have no desire to listen. They have no fear of reprisal. They have no respect for the Constitution. I doubt most in .gov have bothered to read it.

FREEBIRD nailed it.

Truth is nothing but a mere inconvenience on their path to power.

Phone calls have been made, to no avail. Marches have taken place right to the steps of the elected but deaf in power.

"They" act anyway, enacting laws which cede themselves powers they cannot legally hold. "They" enact laws which strip the people of power ONLY GOD can Himself could take from us.

If believing in the Constitution makes one an enemy of the state(ists), then what future is left for that individual?

IMHO, it is the duty and responsibility of anyone who holds freedom and liberty and the U.S. Constitution in high regard to put aside their own fear of what future they may have and seriously consider what future their children and grandchildren will have.

Forget global warming because there is a melt down coming and THAT is reality.

It is time to wake the F*CK up.

Mike
 
Here is the section with the proposed amendments highlighted in red.

The definition of "hostilities" is the key here. It would take a lot of stretching to make a Ron Paul bumper sticker (for example) a conflict subject to the laws of war.




§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

(4)

(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or

(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. ; or

(8) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States.

(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war.
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Here is the section with the proposed amendments highlighted in red.

The definition of "hostilities" is the key here. It would take a lot of stretching to make a Ron Paul bumper sticker (for example) a conflict subject to the laws of war.

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. ; or

If you believe that the government has become a tyrannical body of despots who rule over you without regard for the U.S. Constitution and you speak to another like minded individual, you are now a conspiracy.

If you believe that the view of the founders was that the 2nd Amendment was a necessary check to a government out of control, then you are an violation of their new powers.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

I'll stand with men like George and James and Patrick and Thomas – terrorists to the crown but heroes to me – and I'll consider myself in good company.

Mike
 

LONEWOLF

Deceased
When President Eisenhower warned about "The Military-Industrial Complex" and it's undue influence over the US Government and People, he was warning about the present and coming rise of Fascism in the USA. Well, it's here.
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So Obama is a fascist

Yes.

Disagree with them, and you will die out of necessity to protect the state.

-------

The following is as reported in Madison's notes on the Convention for Monday, September 17, 1787.

Mr. President

I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them: For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment, and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. Most men indeed as well as most sects in Religion, think themselves in possession of all truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is so far error. Steele a Protestant in a Dedication tells the Pope, that the only difference between our Churches in their opinions of the certainty of their doctrines is, the Church of Rome is infallible and the Church of England is never in the wrong. But though many private persons think almost as highly of their own infallibility as of that of their sect, few express it so naturally as a certain french lady, who in a dispute with her sister, said "I don't know how it happens, Sister but I meet with no body but myself, that's always in the right — Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison."

In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other. I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution. For when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me, Sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does; and I think it will astonish our enemies, who are waiting with confidence to hear that our councils are confounded like those of the Builders of Babel; and that our States are on the point of separation, only to meet hereafter for the purpose of cutting one another's throats. Thus I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best. The opinions I have had of its errors, I sacrifice to the public good. I have never whispered a syllable of them abroad. Within these walls they were born, and here they shall die. If every one of us in returning to our Constituents were to report the objections he has had to it, and endeavor to gain partizans in support of them, we might prevent its being generally received, and thereby lose all the salutary effects & great advantages resulting naturally in our favor among foreign Nations as well as among ourselves, from our real or apparent unanimity. Much of the strength & efficiency of any Government in procuring and securing happiness to the people, depends, on opinion, on the general opinion of the goodness of the Government, as well as of the wisdom and integrity of its Governors. I hope therefore that for our own sakes as a part of the people, and for the sake of posterity, we shall act heartily and unanimously in recommending this Constitution (if approved by Congress & confirmed by the Conventions) wherever our influence may extend, and turn our future thoughts & endeavors to the means of having it well administered.

On the whole, Sir, I can not help expressing a wish that every member of the Convention who may still have objections to it, would with me, on this occasion doubt a little of his own infallibility, and to make manifest our unanimity, put his name to this instrument.

Ben Franklin

--------------

People want to find passion in life.

Without freedom, passion is impossible.

Being passionate about securing freedom may well be dangerous to one's life.

Without freedom, one may find that securing life is difficult at best and impossible to live if only at the whim of our masters.

With all due respect, wake up.

Mike
 
If you believe that the government has become a tyrannical body of despots who rule over you without regard for the U.S. Constitution and you speak to another like minded individual, you are now a conspiracy.

If you believe that the view of the founders was that the 2nd Amendment was a necessary check to a government out of control, then you are an violation of their new powers.

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

I'll stand with men like George and James and Patrick and Thomas – terrorists to the crown but heroes to me – and I'll consider myself in good company.

Mike

Ohh kaaay...

Couple of points--first, thoughts and beliefs are not actions of force (or by force) and one person can not be a conspiracy.
 

Dio

Veteran Member
With sincere and deep respect, that wont do any good. Been there. Done that.

TPTB have no desire to listen. They have no fear of reprisal. They have no respect for the Constitution. I doubt most in .gov have bothered to read it.

FREEBIRD nailed it.

Truth is nothing but a mere inconvenience on their path to power.

Phone calls have been made, to no avail. Marches have taken place right to the steps of the elected but deaf in power.

"They" act anyway, enacting laws which cede themselves powers they cannot legally hold. "They" enact laws which strip the people of power ONLY GOD can Himself could take from us.

If believing in the Constitution makes one an enemy of the state(ists), then what future is left for that individual?

IMHO, it is the duty and responsibility of anyone who holds freedom and liberty and the U.S. Constitution in high regard to put aside their own fear of what future they may have and seriously consider what future their children and grandchildren will have.

Forget global warming because there is a melt down coming and THAT is reality.

It is time to wake the F*CK up.

Mike

If protesting, writing, etc does no good, it seems there is only one option for a true patriot...so MT4 where does that put us? You?
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Ohh kaaay...

Couple of points--first, thoughts and beliefs are not actions of force (or by force) and one person can not be a conspiracy.

You disregard the trend and fail to see that the "law" is based solely upon the discretion of whom ever is in power. The trend is that the U.S. Constitution is irrelevant, that the Bill of Rights is irrelevant.

The "law" is what ever "they" deem it to be.

Further, you misread my point about conspiracy.

Here is what I wrote,

If you believe that the government has become a tyrannical body of despots who rule over you without regard for the U.S. Constitution and you speak to another like minded individual, you are now a conspiracy.

"They" are already moving on freedom of speech, btw. OWS had a legitimate examples of how a system can disregard the right of the people.

Mike
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If protesting, writing, etc does no good, it seems there is only one option for a true patriot...so MT4 where does that put us? You?

I find myself treading carefully on unstable ground and preparing myself and my son for an adventure in life we would both not want to choose but we may be forced in to.

I heard first hand what life was like living under the rule of an occupying force from my father. The value of the life of the occupied is not much at all

Mike.
 

Border guard

Inactive
+1

Any man or group of people that tramples on the Constitution deserves DEATH! IMHO, OWS did it right whether you agree with them or not. Maybe the MINUTE MEN are not all dead and buried! If you give up your principles you have NOTHING!!

You disregard the trend and fail to see that the "law" is based solely upon the discretion of whom ever is in power. The trend is that the U.S. Constitution is irrelevant, that the Bill of Rights is irrelevant.

The "law" is what ever "they" deem it to be.

Further, you misread my point about conspiracy.

Here is what I wrote,



"They" are already moving on freedom of speech, btw. OWS had a legitimate examples of how a system can disregard the right of the people.

Mike
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Consider this. To WHAT nation or place do they propose to ship UNWANTED AMERICAN CITIZENS, BY BIRTH? What nation WANTS, would accept our own, natural born, American citizens?
I propose that this government actually thinks stripping it's own natural born citizens of their citizenship would not only make them a man without a country, BUT A PERSON WITHOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, subject to indefinite imprisonment without trial at Guantanamo (or some other American established island of injustice, OUTSIDE any national or international rule of law) WITHOUT the pressure of any nation demanding an accounting of what is being done there to one of it's citizens.

Another thing to consider....Is your IDENTITY something that you possess inalienbly? Can your right to assert WHO YOU ARE be subject to fees, fines, revocation, LICENSE? Try asserting who you are WITHOUT a "driver's license" or other government issued identity papers, WHICH RIDICULOUSLY, CAN EXPIRE making YOUR IDENTITY certification invalid and are a document carefully controlled by the government.
We are entering an era wherin TRUTH IS IRRELATIVE to your "defense" against irrational, oppressive laws.

That's what FEMA camps are for....without citizenship, no country in the world would accept you.

As a non-citizen, you'd have no rights, no freedoms, and no place in American society whatsoever.

Think about the Japanese in WWII...internment camps.
 

SuElPo

Veteran Member
If they can eventually come after whoever they want, when they want, then they also can do what they want with our younger folks, and send them wherever they want to be used how they want, if you know what I mean.
 

clem

Veteran Member
11hitler_youth_02.jpg
 

Watchman2

Veteran Member
A gallon of gas $3.45, A pound of Coffee, $13.95, the cost of citizenship, your life, this thread, priceless.

And to realize that other Americans that love their country, is refreshing.

Watchman2
 

NoPlugsNM

Deceased
A gallon of gas $3.45, A pound of Coffee, $13.95, the cost of citizenship, your life, this thread, priceless.

And to realize that other Americans that love their country, is refreshing.

Watchman2



ABSOLUTELY !!!!! A bazillion percent and then some . .


NP
 

bcingu

Senior Member
How to respond to this thread? I have been preparing my family for what is coming for five + years...everyday we live under the illusion of freedom is a gift to prepare and recruit further. Prepare in silence and speak your mind in public, for everyone already knows what you stand for and what you will do when the time comes. Brothers and Sisters when that day comes, may we find more like minded citizens than we thought, may we all find or become the leadership we need, and may the lord allow us to do what is necessary to either live free or die bravely.
I just came from my local VFW meeting tonight, and as usual at the end of the meeting when they ask "Is there anything for the good of the order" I stood again and spoke of the recent legislation passed by our government, I described again the DHS definition of a terrorists, and again I was pooh poohed by the older members of the organization. But as usual after the meeting a small group of (5) members gathered around me and spoke of their fears of our government.
I live in rural Kansas and until there is a more overt action taken by our government the majority of our fellow citizens will not recognize the perilis(?) times we live in. I thank God everyday for my friends and neighbors who have their eyes open, and understand our situation, and have pledged their support to the protection of me and mine "If you go we go", as well as my pledge to them for the same.
I also Thank God for the people of this forum, the information, and support I have experienced here has given me strength and sanity when I found it nowhere else. As the roman's used to say "Strength and Honor to you all" and May God bless you.
 

USDA

Veteran Member
If we the people, or some of us, are not happy with current events...that is just too bad. Because if we express our discontent, we could be jailed forever or possibly killed outright...swat teams and all. In all probability our discussing this on forms like this one...will be forbidden in the near future.

But just as all people who are sick of tyrants, even if they call themselves our elected government...we will put a noose around our necks and hang either all together or individually...or we fight with our boom sticks, blood and guts and plenty of suffering.

There are no alternatives available, voting, calling the rep, senator etc do no produce results. Like a gaseous atmosphere waiting for a match...that is what it seems to me. And at my age, I would like to be left with what comfort that I may have...but then again I do have a good pair of Chinese made walking boots, a rather cheap but satisfactory multi-tool and other assorted gear for woodsman-ship.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Here is the section with the proposed amendments highlighted in red.

The definition of "hostilities" is the key here. It would take a lot of stretching to make a Ron Paul bumper sticker (for example) a conflict subject to the laws of war.

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction. ; or

(8) engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war.

Bear in mind that "hate crimes" have now been re-defined NOT to just actual, overt, specific, harmfu, clearly-racially-motivatedl ACTIONS against others, but also have come to include the "thoughts" the accused was purported to have---in other words, if a white person strikes a black person, not only is it assault but it is automatically also a "hate" crime, because it is automatically ASSUMED that the "thought and intent" of the attacker was motivated by racial hatred.

The SAME reasoning WILL be applied to those thoughts, activities, and associations that the government deems "treasonous" or a "conspiracy"--and those terms can be defined very broadly.

Speaking of broadly defined terms, can anyone tell me what, exactly, is the definition of "the laws of war"? I'd like to know what "conflicts" the new rulers will consider coming under "the laws of war".
 

ARMY RANGER

Inactive
Rise up! Call, write, speak, complain!
If we do not use the soap box..........

Does not work calling them, they don't give a shit about anything but their own power.I have my reps and the white house on my phones speed dial and call those pricks a couple of times a week for the last 3 years about stuff,Half the time I get a voice message.They will do what they want and We The People have no voice.I have deceided that when they come for me I will die before I am locked up on some God forsaken island or internment camp!
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Required reading:

418VGMTVRPL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Wow. Just....wow.

I WANT this book. I looked on Amazon, but no copies of it were available.

I did, however, find online this excerpt.

It is quite long, folks, but it is WORTH reading:

Quote from They Thought They Were Free
from: http://educate-yourself.org/cn/thoughttheywerefree20apr05.shtml

But Then It Was Too Late



"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after1933,between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know it doesn't make people close to their government to be told that this is a people's government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing to do with knowing one is governing.
What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.


"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.


"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the universe was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was "expected to" participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one's energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time."

"Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. "One had no time to think. There was so much going on." "Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your "little men", your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about - we were decent people - and kept us so busy with continuous changes and "crises" and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the "national enemies", without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?


"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.


"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice - "Resist the beginnings" and "consider the end." But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have changed here before they went as far as they did; they didn't, but they might have. And everyone counts on that might.


"Your "little men," your Nazi friends, were not against National Socialism in principle. Men like me, who were, are the greater offenders, not because we knew better (that would be too much to say) but because we sensed better. Pastor Niemoller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing: and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something - but then it was too late."


"Yes," I said.


"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble." Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.


"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist."


"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to ·to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.


"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and the smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked ·if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in "43" had come immediately after the "German Firm" stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in "33". But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.


"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying "Jew swine," collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in ·your nation, your people ·is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.


"You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined.


"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done ( for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.


"What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or "adjust" your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Germans became this poor kind of hero, many more, I think, than the world knows or cares to know."



I said nothing. I thought of nothing to say.
 

Beth

Membership Revoked
When people in any country have had enough of tyrannical rule, they revolt, and they've always done it, which is why we all know of the French revolution, and even the American revolution, to name a couple. Clearly, not enough present-day citizens have had enough yet.
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The Greek actress and patriot Melina Mercouri tells the story of her exile by the Greek communist government. At the trial in which her citizenship was revoked, she stood and told the government officials, "I was born Greek, and I'll die Greek. You were born bastards, and you'll die bastards." She told this story standing outside the prison to which these same officials were sentenced when Greece's freedom was restored.
 
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