ECON Need help deciding what to do

Mosses

Contributing Member
Hi everyone, Need help deciding what to do. I know there is a lot of people on this site that are knowledgeable on investments and I need help. Long story short. Hubby is 76 , has dementia and brain damage from stroke, he was left with 10,000 after his mom died in 04, he had to do something with it that DAY, so he handed it over to a rep. at a bank, who put it into a annuity. It did go up to 13,000 but dropped down to 7,000. I just called and its back up to 9,000. My name is also on it and it does have a death benefit if he should die.
Right now it would be 13,000 and will stay at that unless it goes up. Its in mutual funds with The Hartford. It also has a clause which he can withdraw 1,000 a month with no penalty and the death benefit would also drop. When I called, and asked what the penalty would be, was told around 1,000. We are both on
SS and a small pension so we only have our house as asset . Should we just take it out? And just keep it here or what would you all advise? Thanks mosses
 

timbo

Deceased
Tough situation here Mosses.
I would think that the banker (where the money is) might be able to give you some good advice.

For me? I would take out some and leave some. Kinda middle of the road thing.

If you can do a thousand a month with no penalty, then why not take out about half and leave the rest?

You still should look for some professional advice though. I sure ain't a professional.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
You might also see if the bank is listed at www.bankrate.com and check the rating. Information is old there, but better than nothing.

I'm not an economist, nor do I play one on TV, but I think it's prudent to keep enough cash on hand in a safe place (fire, flood-prooof safe, perhaps) for 3-6 months of living expenses, plus pay your property taxes ahead for the year, if that's an option for you.

Thus, if you don't want to make a major decision right now, you could at least have some cash under your immediate control. That would give you some insurance in the event of any bank holidays.
 

prepgirl44

Veteran Member
Hi Mosses,

I am not an investment person or anything so I cannot advise you on what to do with your annuity, but I do help elders with dementia and other chronic illnesses to stay in their homes and to plan ahead for future care needs....(I send them to a financial counselor for the investment stuff....I am just a geriatric nurse care manager.)

I just want to caution you, that since your husband has Dementia and a history of strokes, there may come a time that he might need placement in a facility...perhaps you get sick and can't provide the care he needs or he declines or has more strokes and is total care and too much for you to handle...lots of things can happen. (not saying they will, just thinking ahead here...)

If that happens, the only way to place him in a facility (unless you are filthy rich, which you have indicated you are not) is under Medicaid. Your house is exempt as an asset with Medicaid as long as you remain living in it, but Medicaid looks back 30 months at your finances, so if you take this money out (in any amount) you need to be able to document that you spent what you withdrew on living expenses or home repairs or medical, or it will make you/your spouse ineligible for Medicaid for as many months as they figure the money would have paid for your spouses care.

Hopefully, placement is not in his future or yours....I know that folks always want to stay home and their spouse wants to keep them at home, but keep in mind that something can happen (a fall, a heart attack...you never know) and you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot and be unable to get your husband the care needed, all because you didn't know about the law and withdrew money without documenting it's use.

It needs to be considered when you make your decision. You might get by with withdrawing small amounts, perhaps a few hundred at a time and call it miscellaneous living expenses if you pay most bills in cash, and they would not be able to dispute that, but much more and you are going to have them demanding paperwork on every dime to prove you didn't intend to fraud them if you find yourself in a pinch and need Medicaid to pay for a facility for your husband. (Like you actually planned fraud up to 30 months in advance of the need!)

Stupid rule, but it is what it is and I have seen lots of folks out on a limb when they most needed help because they made financial decisions 2 years earlier that unknowingly left them ineligible for help from Medicaid. Most of these folks mistakenly thought that Medicare would pay for a facility, or didn't think they would ever develop health problems that would leave them unable to care for their loved one and need facility care...basically, all these folks just never dreamed they would ever need to apply for Medicaid so they didn't take it into consideration when making financial decisions. But if you are low income, have no assets but your home and one annuity, and one of you has chronic health problems, it needs to be considered.

As a senior citizen, you should be able to get free legal advice (that includes looking at finances and possible future need for medicaid) through your local Area Agency on Aging. Doesn't hurt to call them and ask, just so you are clear on the laws in your state before you do anything.

Just one more thing to think about......(sorry!)
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Its in mutual funds with The Hartford

Mutual funds are made up of stocks from various companies. Stocks are risky. Stocks go down as well as up.

In your situation you'd seem to need the least risky investments possible. Growing the money (which involves exposing the money to potential losses) is not your main purpose at this point- keeping it is, at this point. I'd be thinking of cash or cash equivalents (CD, savings, etc).

I am not a professional investment advisor, YMMV, do your own due dilligence etc.

dd
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Prepgirl, please double check the 30 month look-back???

I was under the impression that it was 60 months-120 months (5-10 years). In my family's case they did a 5 year look-back in '98 for Dad.
 
Hi Mosses,

I am not an investment person or anything so I cannot advise you on what to do with your annuity, but I do help elders with dementia and other chronic illnesses to stay in their homes and to plan ahead for future care needs....(I send them to a financial counselor for the investment stuff....I am just a geriatric nurse care manager.)

I just want to caution you, that since your husband has Dementia and a history of strokes, there may come a time that he might need placement in a facility...perhaps you get sick and can't provide the care he needs or he declines or has more strokes and is total care and too much for you to handle...lots of things can happen. (not saying they will, just thinking ahead here...)

If that happens, the only way to place him in a facility (unless you are filthy rich, which you have indicated you are not) is under Medicaid. Your house is exempt as an asset with Medicaid as long as you remain living in it, but Medicaid looks back 30 months at your finances, so if you take this money out (in any amount) you need to be able to document that you spent what you withdrew on living expenses or home repairs or medical, or it will make you/your spouse ineligible for Medicaid for as many months as they figure the money would have paid for your spouses care.

Hopefully, placement is not in his future or yours....I know that folks always want to stay home and their spouse wants to keep them at home, but keep in mind that something can happen (a fall, a heart attack...you never know) and you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot and be unable to get your husband the care needed, all because you didn't know about the law and withdrew money without documenting it's use.

It needs to be considered when you make your decision. You might get by with withdrawing small amounts, perhaps a few hundred at a time and call it miscellaneous living expenses if you pay most bills in cash, and they would not be able to dispute that, but much more and you are going to have them demanding paperwork on every dime to prove you didn't intend to fraud them if you find yourself in a pinch and need Medicaid to pay for a facility for your husband. (Like you actually planned fraud up to 30 months in advance of the need!)

Stupid rule, but it is what it is and I have seen lots of folks out on a limb when they most needed help because they made financial decisions 2 years earlier that unknowingly left them ineligible for help from Medicaid. Most of these folks mistakenly thought that Medicare would pay for a facility, or didn't think they would ever develop health problems that would leave them unable to care for their loved one and need facility care...basically, all these folks just never dreamed they would ever need to apply for Medicaid so they didn't take it into consideration when making financial decisions. But if you are low income, have no assets but your home and one annuity, and one of you has chronic health problems, it needs to be considered.

As a senior citizen, you should be able to get free legal advice (that includes looking at finances and possible future need for medicaid) through your local Area Agency on Aging. Doesn't hurt to call them and ask, just so you are clear on the laws in your state before you do anything.

Just one more thing to think about......(sorry!)

Considering this advice, I'd look into it carefully--if you take out the money, make any and ALL home repairs/improvements needed. I have seen couples lose everything (savings, rental property, etc.) because one person needed to go into a nursing home.
 

Kendo

Senior Member
There are different types of annuities and they do different things.

It sounds like you have a variable annuity, and should be recieving montlhly payments already from it.

First, variable annuities let you receive periodic payments for the rest of your life (or the life of your spouse or any other person you designate). This feature offers protection against the possibility that, after you retire, you will outlive your assets.

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/varannty.htm

A variable annuity has two phases: an accumulation phase and a payout phase.

During the accumulation phase, you make purchase payments, which you can allocate to a number of investment options. For example, you could designate 40% of your purchase payments to a bond fund, 40% to a U.S. stock fund, and 20% to an international stock fund. The money you have allocated to each mutual fund investment option will increase or decrease over time, depending on the fund's performance. In addition, variable annuities often allow you to allocate part of your purchase payments to a fixed account. A fixed account, unlike a mutual fund, pays a fixed rate of interest. The insurance company may reset this interest rate periodically, but it will usually provide a guaranteed minimum (e.g., 3% per year).

Example: You purchase a variable annuity with an initial purchase payment of $10,000. You allocate 50% of that purchase payment ($5,000) to a bond fund, and 50% ($5,000) to a stock fund. Over the following year, the stock fund has a 10% return, and the bond fund has a 5% return. At the end of the year, your account has a value of $10,750 ($5,500 in the stock fund and $5,250 in the bond fund), minus fees and charges (discussed below).

Your most important source of information about a variable annuity's investment options is the prospectus. Request the prospectuses for the mutual fund investment options. Read them carefully before you allocate your purchase payments among the investment options offered. You should consider a variety of factors with respect to each fund option, including the fund's investment objectives and policies, management fees and other expenses that the fund charges, the risks and volatility of the fund, and whether the fund contributes to the diversification of your overall investment portfolio. The SEC's online publication, Mutual Fund Investing: Look at More Than a Fund's Past Performance, provides information about these factors. Another SEC online publication, Invest Wisely: An Introduction to Mutual Funds, provides general information about the types of mutual funds and the expenses they charge.

During the accumulation phase, you can typically transfer your money from one investment option to another without paying tax on your investment income and gains, although you may be charged by the insurance company for transfers. However, if you withdraw money from your account during the early years of the accumulation phase, you may have to pay "surrender charges," which are discussed below. In addition, you may have to pay a 10% federal tax penalty if you withdraw money before the age of 59½.

At the beginning of the payout phase, you may receive your purchase payments plus investment income and gains (if any) as a lump-sum payment, or you may choose to receive them as a stream of payments at regular intervals (generally monthly).

If you choose to receive a stream of payments, you may have a number of choices of how long the payments will last. Under most annuity contracts, you can choose to have your annuity payments last for a period that you set (such as 20 years) or for an indefinite period (such as your lifetime or the lifetime of you and your spouse or other beneficiary). During the payout phase, your annuity contract may permit you to choose between receiving payments that are fixed in amount or payments that vary based on the performance of mutual fund investment options.

The amount of each periodic payment will depend, in part, on the time period that you select for receiving payments. Be aware that some annuities do not allow you to withdraw money from your account once you have started receiving regular annuity payments.

In addition, some annuity contracts are structured as immediate annuities, which means that there is no accumulation phase and you will start receiving annuity payments right after you purchase the annuity.

The Death Benefit and Other Features

A common feature of variable annuities is the death benefit. If you die, a person you select as a beneficiary (such as your spouse or child) will receive the greater of: (i) all the money in your account, or (ii) some guaranteed minimum (such as all purchase payments minus prior withdrawals).

Example: You own a variable annuity that offers a death benefit equal to the greater of account value or total purchase payments minus withdrawals. You have made purchase payments totaling $50,000. In addition, you have withdrawn $5,000 from your account. Because of these withdrawals and investment losses, your account value is currently $40,000. If you die, your designated beneficiary will receive $45,000 (the $50,000 in purchase payments you put in minus $5,000 in withdrawals).

Some variable annuities allow you to choose a "stepped-up" death benefit. Under this feature, your guaranteed minimum death benefit may be based on a greater amount than purchase payments minus withdrawals. For example, the guaranteed minimum might be your account value as of a specified date, which may be greater than purchase payments minus withdrawals if the underlying investment options have performed well. The purpose of a stepped-up death benefit is to "lock in" your investment performance and prevent a later decline in the value of your account from eroding the amount that you expect to leave to your heirs. This feature carries a charge, however, which will reduce your account value.

Variable annuities sometimes offer other optional features, which also have extra charges. One common feature, the guaranteed minimum income benefit, guarantees a particular minimum level of annuity payments, even if you do not have enough money in your account (perhaps because of investment losses) to support that level of payments. Other features may include long-term care insurance, which pays for home health care or nursing home care if you become seriously ill.

You may want to consider the financial strength of the insurance company that sponsors any variable annuity you are considering buying. This can affect the company's ability to pay any benefits that are greater than the value of your account in mutual fund investment options, such as a death benefit, guaranteed minimum income benefit, long-term care benefit, or amounts you have allocated to a fixed account investment option.
 

colibree

Inactive
Do nothing. Getting $100/month=$12,000/year means tour bank
is vastly overpaying you by miscalculation. Let them.
C.
 

Mosses

Contributing Member
thanks

Thanks for all the info. I think I will look into him withdrawing the $1000 a month, and I'll be keeping real good records on where it goes. Prepgirl, thanks for all the other info. it helps a lot as I've been sick also. mosses
 
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