CRISIS My Experiences trying to buy metal today

[dstraito]

Caution - To those with cultural sensitivities this post may come across as racists. Personally I don't think the word RACIST means anything anymore but that is just me.

I tried to find some metal today because I recently bought a welder and I'm practicing and trying to improve my skills, create some art.

I went to three different metal places, two metal salvage and one metal fabricator. In all instances I had a hard time finding someone who spoke English. Now assumptions are not necessarily valid, just because they can't speak English doesn't mean they were illegal but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts the majority of them were illegal.

These are not huge corporations filled with greed trying to improve the profit margin for stockholders, rather these are businesses that are using illegal labor despite any penalties they might incur for doing so. Greed and profit might be one motive. Inadequate labor might be another whether it means they can't find Americans that will do these jobs or that Americans don't have a hard enough work-ethic to do them well.

I believe they operate under this model for a couple of reasons. One, if they didn't, they would not make enough profit to stay in business so the argument use American labor would effectively shut their doors. If the main goal is to provide jobs for Americans it is kind of a catch 22. Force the American companies to use legal labor and they close their doors so either way the jobs for Americans are not there.

At all three of the companies I went to, I could not communicate the fact that I was looking for scrap metals of different kinds, they simply didn't understand english. While that might not be a great customer service model, I am not in their customer profile mix meaning I'm a customer outside their regular product mix so the companies probably did not care. Still, what does that say when you go to a company and can't communicate with them what you need? What that tells me is that we have a serious problem in America that needs to be resolved.

Maybe that means we enact E-Verify so only Americans are working in American Companies. That would also means that American Consumers must be willing to pay more for the goods and services they procure, are they? I don't know.


I think it is a much bigger problem than people realize.

Just thought I'd share my experiences today. It may be time for me to learn Spanish.

 

[Jeff Allen]

Move to Indiana. That will solve the problem. ;-) I'll hook you up with tons of readily available scrap. As long as you don't snag the 1/2" plate that comes through...grrr....that be MINE :-)

J

 

[Green Co.]

Welcome to my blue collar world.

I worked construction running heavy equipment until '95. I left as a result of Reagan's amnesty program releasing millions of formerly illegal aliens into the legitimate work force, coupled with the increased flow of illegals, cause golly, there was bound to be another program...

Started my own business, trucking LTL freight then branching into the oilfield hot-shot business. That was good for about 10 years, before the illegals started doing it in mass... seems there were some states that would give a driver's license to anyone, who would then migrate to other states for work.. fuel went up (able to compensate there) illegally licensed hot shot drivers worked for less than break-even.. so I sold that business. The only way to compete was hire the illegals, at minimum wage.. but I just wasn't ready to trust them to deliver high $ equipment to the correct place.

So, with a few years remaining until SS age, I started over again, selling specialized parts to the drilling companies, and many times delivering them all over the country. So far, so good. Most rig managers don't speak spanish........

 

[VesperSparrow]

Learning to weld is on my bucket list but learning spaneesh aint...
I have though, ran into this problem from the state fair to the TomThunb to trying to get a cup of coffee....
Another thing I am seeing is racial tension...not the usual run of the mill color tension...but true blue racial tension...the kind from the old days...the kind where you know what color you are if you step outside of your rainbow type of racial tension...the really bad kind....

Just not good.



I hope you get your metals though...maybe an auto junkyard or something could help ya out better.

 

[Bad Hand]

When I enter a business and the employees don't speak English I turn and leave it is that simple No English on business.

 

[FREEBIRD]

Think of learning Spanish, or any language, as a survival skill. If you are bilingual or multilingual, it doesn't remove your choice about which language to use when, but understanding a language that is becoming more common in your area might save your bacon one day.

 

[Intergator]

Just run in there and shout "INS" and whoever is left should be able to take your order in english.....

 

[MDINMT]

When I enter a business and the employees don't speak English I turn and leave it is that simple No English on business.

Same here. Also don't use company's that have customer service in Bangladesh.

 

[ChickenLittle]

Just run in there and shout "INS" and whoever is left should be able to take your order in english.....

A guy I work with previously worked at a chicken processing plant. He said one day ICE raided the place and all of the illegal Mexicans took off running and jumped the back fence. He said one of the white guys also took off running. The next day they asked the white guy why he ran. He said if everyone else was running he wasn't going to wait around to find out why.

 

[Samson]

I think this is very good advice!

Think of learning Spanish, or any language, as a survival skill. If you are bilingual or multilingual, it doesn't remove your choice about which language to use when, but understanding a language that is becoming more common in your area might save your bacon one day.

 

[skwentnaflyer]

Think of learning Spanish, or any language, as a survival skill. If you are bilingual or multilingual, it doesn't remove your choice about which language to use when, but understanding a language that is becoming more common in your area might save your bacon one day.

It was handy for our accounts rep, he'd spent a couple years in South America but didn't advertise that he spoke Spanish. Worked great when he'd go out to collect on an overdue account---they'd drop into Spanish, he'd smile and pretend he didn't understand while they discussed what to tell him, then he would suggest, in Spanish, that perhaps they should simply pay up....it was hilarious!

 

[TerryK]

Think of learning Spanish, or any language, as a survival skill. If you are bilingual or multilingual, it doesn't remove your choice about which language to use when, but understanding a language that is becoming more common in your area might save your bacon one day.

I agree with Freebird. Most of the world speak at least a little of a second language. Didn't you ever want to know what 'those people' were really talking about. We always tend to think it's us, but you might just be surprised.

Just run in there and shout "INS" and whoever is left should be able to take your order in english.....

Short, effective and to the point.

 

[Dennis Olson]

What we're actually seeing he is proof positive that slavery is REQUIRED in 21st century America in order for our economy to survive. One just dare not call it that.

 

[TimeTraveler]

"I think it is a much bigger problem than people realize.

Just thought I'd share my experiences today. It may be time for me to learn Spanish."


Apparently the border, "crossed you in the dark of night", and your just catching up. TT

 

[Dennis Olson]

I intend to learn Mandarin, starting within a month.

 

[Mongo]

My adult son works part time in a lumber yard while going to college.
They also sell shingles.
He says the Mexicans are HARD workers and FAST workers.

He delivers sheet rock to worksites.
Says a White crew will meet his truck on site, jaw jack, goof off and take forever off loading the truck - then they take a break.
The Mexican crews on the other hand, as they are off loading it - they are hanging it.

He talks about White crews shingling a roof and Mexican crews shingling a roof - no comparison.

He told me, "If you want something done fast and good - hire Mexicans".

Seems to me they have the work ethic Whites once had but lost....

The only thing he doesn't like is they don't speak English and it's frustrating sometimes..

 

[Rescuedog]

Just run in there and shout "INS" and whoever is left should be able to take your order in english.....

Por favor, presente la carta verde...

heh

RD

 

[Flippper]

I intend to learn Mandarin, starting within a month.

Learn Korean-they can understand Chinese and Japanese, but Japanese and Chinese can't understand Korean (or so my parent's Korean exchange student told me). 3 for the price of one, who doesn't like that?

 

[dstraito]

My adult son works part time in a lumber yard while going to college.
They also sell shingles.
He says the Mexicans are HARD workers and FAST workers.

He delivers sheet rock to worksites.
Says a White crew will meet his truck on site, jaw jack, goof off and take forever off loading the truck - then they take a break.
The Mexican crews on the other hand, as they are off loading it - they are hanging it.

He talks about White crews shingling a roof and Mexican crews shingling a roof - no comparison.

He told me, "If you want something done fast and good - hire Mexicans".

Seems to me they have the work ethic Whites once had but lost....

The only thing he doesn't like is they don't speak English and it's frustrating sometimes..

You know, I appreciate a good work ethic. If it can't be found with local circles then why not with illegal workers. However, at what point does it become a problem when a company can get workers at a fraction of the hourly wages with no benefits to do the same job. Add to that that the local workers would not have the same work ethic and/or productivity and you are looking at why a business would hire illegal workers to do those jobs.

 

[dstraito]

If this is truly a point in time where Americans have lost the ability to have a great work ethic, if this is a time where Americans can't provide adequate work abilities to meet the work challenges then maybe the work should be outsourced, maybe there should be no protections on the great American Work Ethic.

Let's face it, we have lost manufacturing and innovation. We have imposed more regulations on business than most countries and those reguations WILL reduce business.

Maybe it it time for everything to collapse so we can start over because things are definitely NOT working now.

 

[Snipe Hunter]

Part of the problem is

you have very few people in government

who have or know - how to run a business

untill this is corrected

we are SOL

politicans dont have a Friggen clue

carpet baggers (lawyers ) dont have a friggen clue

you need a small business man who knows his Shit

 

[old pirate]

government has nothing to do with work ethics. The unions, at one time were needed, now they have destroyed companies and work ethics.

I work with mostly Indians, I now work many 10 to 12 hour days. Why, because they do and I want to stay employed.

 

[Bud in Fla]

It may be time for me to learn Spanish.

Just one more of the reasons we had to leave NC - couldn't speak Spanish...but we are both fluent in .45, .38, .357, 30-30, 12 ga and a few more "languages".....

 

[Spot]

Maybe they just didn't want to speak english to you . Next time just smile real wide while saying something about their mother and see if they understand that .

 

[Bud in Fla]

My adult son works part time in a lumber yard while going to college.
They also sell shingles.
He says the Mexicans are HARD workers and FAST workers.

He delivers sheet rock to worksites.
Says a White crew will meet his truck on site, jaw jack, goof off and take forever off loading the truck - then they take a break.
The Mexican crews on the other hand, as they are off loading it - they are hanging it.

He talks about White crews shingling a roof and Mexican crews shingling a roof - no comparison.

He told me, "If you want something done fast and good - hire Mexicans".

Seems to me they have the work ethic Whites once had but lost....

The only thing he doesn't like is they don't speak English and it's frustrating sometimes..

I used to work for a power company south of here and there was a lot of asbestos abatement done in the plants. The white crews were soon replaces with Mexican crews because they WORKED! Those guys hit the gate at 6am and didn't slow down till knock time at 6:30pm. Some of the wives set up temp kitchens in the parking lot and cooked breakfast & lunch, 1 guy from a crew would pick up lunch and they'd eat in about 5 minutes and back to work...good food, too! Better and cheaper than anything we could buy in the break room. The main reason they're taking over is that they do work hard. Why would anyone want to hire a person you have to beg to do a job, pay them 3 or 4 times what they're actually worth and still have to deal with half a$$ results from them?
How many here realize that Mexico City is the largest city on earth? That means they have power plants, highrise buildings, sewage treatment plants - everything that the US has. It's just not realistic to think that they couldn't replace every US non-worker with someone who is willing to do the job....and when they get enough control a lot of welfare families are going to discover they have no rights or country left.

I worked with an engineer who had just finished a job in Mexico who told us how much he loved working the simply because the workers worked!
They had a 1200 pound relief valve to set on top of the boiler one night. Simple 30 minute job. Rig it, lift it and set it... Except the crane went down about 8pm. He said they were ready to go the next morning on schedule anyway.
Rather than sit down and wait for the crane to repaired they pulled guys from every job on site and used comealongs, chain-falls and plywood skids to get the valve up the stairs while welders were building a temporary jib on top of the boiler to set the valve in place.

There's no one to blame but the policies of our government/ Kongress over the last 50 or more years and the people who voted for which ever treasonous bastard promised to give them more for sitting on their a$$es!

 

[wab54]

I used to work for a power company south of here and there was a lot of asbestos abatement done in the plants. The white crews were soon replaces with Mexican crews because they WORKED! Those guys hit the gate at 6am and didn't slow down till knock time at 6:30pm. Some of the wives set up temp kitchens in the parking lot and cooked breakfast & lunch, 1 guy from a crew would pick up lunch and they'd eat in about 5 minutes and back to work...good food, too! Better and cheaper than anything we could buy in the break room. The main reason they're taking over is that they do work hard. Why would anyone want to hire a person you have to beg to do a job, pay them 3 or 4 times what they're actually worth and still have to deal with half a$$ results from them?
How many here realize that Mexico City is the largest city on earth? That means they have power plants, highrise buildings, sewage treatment plants - everything that the US has. It's just not realistic to think that they couldn't replace every US non-worker with someone who is willing to do the job....and when they get enough control a lot of welfare families are going to discover they have no rights or country left.

I worked with an engineer who had just finished a job in Mexico who told us how much he loved working the simply because the workers worked!
They had a 1200 pound relief valve to set on top of the boiler one night. Simple 30 minute job. Rig it, lift it and set it... Except the crane went down about 8pm. He said they were ready to go the next morning on schedule anyway.
Rather than sit down and wait for the crane to repaired they pulled guys from every job on site and used comealongs, chain-falls and plywood skids to get the valve up the stairs while welders were building a temporary jib on top of the boiler to set the valve in place.

There's no one to blame but the policies of our government/ Kongress over the last 50 or more years and the people who voted for which ever treasonous bastard promised to give them more for sitting on their a$$es!

Amen bub!!!!


WAB

 

[jed turtle]

If this is truly a point in time where Americans have lost the ability to have a great work ethic, if this is a time where Americans can't provide adequate work abilities to meet the work challenges then maybe the work should be outsourced, maybe there should be no protections on the great American Work Ethic.

Let's face it, we have lost manufacturing and innovation. We have imposed more regulations on business than most countries and those reguations WILL reduce business.

Maybe it it time for everything to collapse so we can start over because things are definitely NOT working now.

that is the plan.
the US Constitution stands squarely in the way of World Government. that is a big problem for certain people who have big ideas.

 

[Jeff Allen]

Ha, I LOVE the direction this thread has taken.

A MAJORITY of American workers are in deed LAZY socialists.

Thank God I have been able to work most of my life without working someplace with required "breaks".

What a waste of my LIFE! I have been able to spend thousands of hours over the years with my family or being productive while most Americans sat on their keesters for 2 15 minute snooze fests a day, plus the 30 to 60 minutes of "lunch", which I only eat if I'm driving. Unfortunately when I'm running a team of men....I have to waste time stopping for lunch. How awful...I come to work to MAKE MONEY, and being forced to sit on my ass for 15 minutes while I could be earning a living just aggravates the hell out of me! Work aint "social hour", its earning a living for my family!

And to those of you who want to cry, "hey, that Jeff, he is such a MORON, doesn't he know the 30 minutes a day is PAID, he's such an idiot, he has given thousands to his employers, what a fool"....now, here's the test to find out if you are deep down a socialist or not. If you found yourself in agreement with what I just wrote, about me being an idiot, you are a socialist! Come on, just admit it. About 80% of Americans ARE socialists these days, and ALL socialists have a lazy streak somewhere.

But here's the rub for you socialists. You THINK you are getting paid for those two 15 minute breaks, but what is REALLY happening is you are producing less for the company and as a result your wages are lower overall. You see, the ONLY way a business can pay you is if you bring in more revenue than you cost the company. This is a concept that socialists cannot wrap their lazy little minds around.

J

 

[AlaBill]

I have a farm and pay starting manual labor rates of $10 per hour. When people apply their first question is can I be paid in cash. When I say no, you will get a check, then then say I can't take a 1099 because I would lose my unemployment. The 99 weeks of unemployment checks makes it almost impossible for me to hire anyone who has been laid off from a former job. New kids out of high school are eager, but anyone with experience would rather sit home a draw a check.

 

[dstraito]

I have a farm and pay starting manual labor rates of $10 per hour. When people apply their first question is can I be paid in cash. When I say no, you will get a check, then then say I can't take a 1099 because I would lose my unemployment. The 99 weeks of unemployment checks makes it almost impossible for me to hire anyone who has been laid off from a former job. New kids out of high school are eager, but anyone with experience would rather sit home a draw a check.

Do the new kids out of high school work hard for you or are they shocked at how hard the work actually is and quit after a short time?

I want to have hope for our future and our future is our kids. If they don't get it then we may be lost.

 

[Bad Hand]

The Kalifornia developers came here with their illegals and most of my friends lost their jobs and those that didn't their wages were cut in half. The Mexicans worked fast and the houses are showing it now. The foundations weren't compacted and the houses are settling cracks in the walls floor to ceiling, some windows and doors won't open and others won't close. One town house they built they insulated and sheet rocked the walls then they put on the sheeting on the roof. This was after there was rain snow the walls filled with ice then they put on the roof. The houses they built are a disaster that the people can't fix short of tearing the down and starting over.

I can speak and under stand Spanish and some German but I refuse to speak Spanish to these Illegals in my country. What part of illegal don't people understand?

 

[Dennis Olson]

IMO, 99% of all teenagers these days cannot understand OR PERFORM an honest day's manual labor. They came of age sitting in front of a TV set with a game controller in one hand and a cell phone in the other. All they know or want is in front of a video screen. Thank God I didn't raise my kids that way.

 

[SIRR1]

Learning to weld is on my bucket list

VS IMO the best way to get the hang of welding would be to take a class at your local community college and learn how to TIG weld (tungsten inert gas).

It is the cleanest of the welding classes and once mastered you will be able to create some beautiful welds that will out live us both.

Small home TIG weldering set ups including machine, tungsten sticks, filler rods and argon (mixed gas bottle) can be assembled for around $500 dollars.

If you plan to weld metels thicker than 1/4 inch then the price goes up because the smaller home welders don't produce enough power to heat up thicker materials for welding.

A trick the Iron Workers sometimes use is to heat the material to be TIG welded with a gas torch until it glows red hot and then TIG weld the heated material. I would not suggest trying this because it is a very easy way to get burned...

SIRR1

 

[Bud in Fla]

If you plan to weld metels thicker than 1/4 inch then the price goes up because the smaller home welders don't produce enough power to heat up thicker materials for welding.

A trick the Iron Workers sometimes use is to heat the material to be TIG welded with a gas torch until it glows red hot and then TIG weld the heated material. I would not suggest trying this because it is a very easy way to get burned...

SIRR1

I was a mutli-qualified nuclear & fossil plant pipe welder for years and I've never had to preheat anything like that - great way to get burned up! Some materials do require pre & post weld heat but most of the real common carbon & stainless steels don't. Copper Nickle pipe does take that type of preheat and it's like welding in an oven but that's the only thing I ever ran into that you had to get that hot. I was qualified stick & tig on carbon and stainless with unlimited wall thickness from 1/2" pipe up

As for thicker material, you use multiple pass stringer or weave beads. You don't try to weld the total thickness - just build it up in multiple layers. I've done the same with my 110v MIG welder in my home shop.

 

[Bud in Fla]

The Kalifornia developers came here with their illegals and most of my friends lost their jobs and those that didn't their wages were cut in half. The Mexicans worked fast and the houses are showing it now. The foundations weren't compacted and the houses are settling cracks in the walls floor to ceiling, some windows and doors won't open and others won't close. One town house they built they insulated and sheet rocked the walls then they put on the sheeting on the roof. This was after there was rain snow the walls filled with ice then they put on the roof. The houses they built are a disaster that the people can't fix short of tearing the down and starting over.

Sorry about the multiple post but I'd bet the illegals did the work to the contractors specs. Kinda like the Chinese junk we get now - most of it is built to the specs provided by the buyer. If the buyer/contractor wants something produced a cheaply as possible they usually know that they'll be long gone before the problems start. Mexico & China are both capable of producing quality products - IF the consumer/buyer/engineering specs call for it.
I'm not defending anyone - crappy work is crappy work no matter who did it! I'm just pointing out that once again, we're now receiving the results of bribs, payoffs, etc to a corrupt government system. Where were the building inspectors on those jobs? How about the contractors reputation? I'd bet nobody even remembers the contractor's name - and he's long gone with the $$$...just like they planed.

As for Dennis' opinion of today's teen and working, I think he's over estimated their abilities and ambitions - I'd have estimated 99.99% can't perform a decent days work....worse yet, they thanks to the public feel good about yourself education system, they don't even have a clue that there is a problem other that the old people's attitude!

 

[inynmn]

dstraito
If this is truly a point in time where Americans have lost the ability to have a great work ethic, if this is a time where Americans can't provide adequate work abilities to meet the work challenges then maybe the work should be outsourced, maybe there should be no protections on the great American Work Ethic.

Let's face it, we have lost manufacturing and innovation. We have imposed more regulations on business than most countries and those reguations WILL reduce business.

Maybe it it time for everything to collapse so we can start over because things are definitely NOT working now.

It's the public school curriculum coupled with the largely fraudulent-corrupt- college loan-shark cartels and the propaganda media.
Million of peasants in 3rd world countries speak 2, 3 or 4 languages. Millions in the US can not even speak or write a clear sentence in English. They struggle to read simple paragraphs.

Find it more than perplexing that in today's economy intelligent human beings refuse to work an honest days work. People of all ages hiding at work, not learning new skills, not earning their wages. There are probably 100+ unemployed that would crawl on their knees for each, a living wage job, yet this reality escapes the lazy's.

Conversely there are millions trapped in low wage jobs with zero benefits that truly earn their wages, they can't even call on sick and have no access to medicine, they are not allowed to visit a doctor because they are the non-entitled working poor - when they show up at an emergency room near death they are considered scumbags or thieves for trying to save their lives or their childrens lives.

Just wait till multi millions reach the age of retirement and discover retirement for them = death. Just wait til today's children and youth discover they are the worlds newest, poorest, most enslaved peasants and they have work their entire lives to pay for their ancestor's soul crushing debts.

They don't need or want US anymore. Next question - where are we going ?

 

[Codeno]

Think of learning Spanish, or any language, as a survival skill. If you are bilingual or multilingual, it doesn't remove your choice about which language to use when, but understanding a language that is becoming more common in your area might save your bacon one day.

Absolutely. After having lived and worked down near the border for a few years, as well as in a large metropolis with a huge Hispanic population for a time, speaking Spanish became a priority for the family as we began to raise our children. We also speak some Russian, because the extended family on my wife's side speak a number of Slavic languages. Russian is a good crossover, kind of a common denominator for them, without us having to learn each of the languages they know.

Numerous times even here in the upper midwest, I have found myself standing within earshot of a conversation that I understand without those speaking being any the wiser. Just another prep, and I agree with FREEBIRD, any second language is a plus. The world becomes smaller by the day whether we like it or not, and in Europe it has always been commonplace to speak even 3 or 4 languages, just because of their close proximity to each other.

 

[Bad Hand]

My friends who were contractors and carpenters did quality work the fly by night Kalifornicator developers/contractors hired the Mexicans because they were cheaper. If the immigration laws had been enforced the people how bought these houses wouldn't have the problems with the houses my friends would have had jobs and wouldn't have had to move.

There were teenagers hired right out of high school as laborers on some of the construction jobs and we had to teach them how to use a tape measure. They couldn't add without a calculate, they did work they just didn't know any of the basics because of the schools not teaching.

 

[Bud in Fla]

My friends who were contractors and carpenters did quality work the fly by night Kalifornicator developers/contractors hired the Mexicans because they were cheaper. If the immigration laws had been enforced the people how bought these houses wouldn't have the problems with the houses my friends would have had jobs and wouldn't have had to move.

There were teenagers hired right out of high school as laborers on some of the construction jobs and we had to teach them how to use a tape measure. They couldn't add without a calculate, they did work they just didn't know any of the basics because of the schools not teaching.

Before I was a welder I was a contractor and I did quality work. You can't compete when a fly by night contractor comes in and deliberately under cuts all the legitimate contractors while having full intentions of leaving before the problems show up - but the workers did what the contractor wanted - as cheap & quick as possible. That's how I wound up at the power company. I've seen some work done by Mexicans that was as good as any I've seen or done but mostly, they do what the contractor specs and try to stay below the radar. Back to enforcing the laws - I wish!!!! In order to attempt that you'd have to start by charging "Kongress" with treason - which ain't a bad idea if anybody knows how to do it!

I know of one case where a company was "created" to build a high dollar tract of houses around a lake in SC. They billed themselves as the greatest builders to ever drive a nail and they charged way more than the local contractors while paying the Mexicans less than minimum wage. When the houses were built, the Mexicans were gone and the contractors were gone without a trace and no where to start looking. The company had been dissolved before the paint dried. Meanwhile, 2 year old window sills were rotting out, wiring problems showed up, foundations cracked, sheet rock cracked, PVC pipes not glued/wrong glue, etc - and most of that stuff should have been caught by a building inspector if they'd done their jobs. And people who bought the houses were POed at the local contractors because they told the truth about what it'd take to fix the crap and how much it'd cost to do it.

I have met a few kids that were interested in working and learning but I'll agree - the main problem is they're not taught anything. Forty plus years ago I went to vocational school for drafting & air conditioning in high school and machine shop/Tool & Die after that. I don't know of any high schools that offer vocational training now. It seems like they try to stifle any young people who don't fit the liberal mold of sheeple. Last year the youth pastor at our church took a bunch to camp. No cell phones, no computers, no MP3 players, no TV - they didn't know what to do. They'd never actually entertained themselves before. By the end of the week they'd discovered that they didn't have to be entertained the entire time they were awake.