GOV/MIL Military retirees: You betrayed us, Congress

lgsracer

Veteran Member
Military retirees: You betrayed us, Congress
By Jennifer Liberto @CNNMoney December 13, 2013: 3:39 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/12/news/economy/military-pensions-budget/

WASHINGTON (CNNMoney)
Military retirees are outraged that Congress will start voting Thursday on a budget deal that trims military pensions, calling the move "an egregious breach of faith."

The Military Coalition, some 27 military groups, wrote to leaders in Congress and President Obama late Wednesday about their "strong objection" and "grave concern" over the budget deal.

The deal cuts pension cost of living raises by 1 percentage point for military retirees who aren't disabled and not yet 62 years old. Cost of living hikes are automatic raises intended to keep up with inflation.

The problem is, most military retirees are a lot younger than private sector retirees. They enlist in their 20's and retire in their 40's. Very few stay on till they are 62 -- those who may be lucky enough to escape major injuries at war, or rose to higher echelons in the military system.

When compounded, the 1 percentage point cut could result in much more than a 20% reduction in retiree pensions over 20 years.

Related: 5 things the budget deal doesn't do

The average cut in pension payouts, including compounding interest, for a retiring Army Sergeant first class, would be about $3,700 each year, according to the Military Officers Association of America. Over 20 years, the total losses could balloon to more than $80,000.

"While portrayed as a minor change, a 20% reduction in retired pay and survivor benefit values is a massive cut in military career benefits," wrote groups, including the Air Force Sergeants Association, Iraq & Afghanistan Veterans of America and the Marine Corps League, among others in the letter.

The change is infuriating to military retirees like Army Col. Michael Barron, who retired nearly 4 years ago, after 30 years of service, which included being deployed to both Iraq wars.

"It's not fair at all. I spent a 30 year career in the military. I clearly understood what the (cost of living increases) would be," said Barron, deputy director of government relations for the Military Officers Association of America. "This is the worst kind of example of a shady, backroom deal."

The cut is forcing some to reconsider how much longer they will continue to work with the military.

Rebekah Sanderlin's husband is two years away from hitting his 20 year retirement mark with the Army and she's wondering if its worth it. He's served in Afghanistan four times, among other places, and has many injuries.

"The war has been very hard on our family," said Sanderlin, a writer. "We'd like to stay in, but it seems stupid to give more time to a government that goes back on their word."

Military groups say the cut is particularly unfair because the changes will affect those who have already put in their years of service.

"To tax the very men and women who have sacrificed and served more than others is simply a foul," the letter stated.

Related: A new normal for government retirees

Washington leaders, and House Republicans, in particular, have been worried about the cost of military retiree benefits.

In 2012, the Pentagon spent $52.4 billion on 2.3 million military retirees and survivors, a cost that is expected to rise over the next few decades, according to the Department of Defense Office of the Actuary.

House budget chief Rep. Paul Ryan's website states that military retirement "provides an exceptionally generous benefit, often providing 40 years of pension payments in return for 20 years of service," as it explains why benefits should be trimmed.

"Current levels of military compensation are incompatible with the overall demands on the defense budget," according to a House Committee on the Budget Report.

Military groups say they're open to reforms, but they'd like such changes to go through the normal legislative process that allows time to review and "assess any recommendations that could significantly impact retention and readiness."

Barron said groups like his were "blindsided" by the cuts to military pensions.
More budget cuts loom at Pentagon

The cut ends up saving the budget $6 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Congress would also make newly hired civilian federal workers contribute 1.3% more of their paychecks to pensions if the budget deal becomes law.

The Department of Defense wouldn't comment on the Military Coalition letter and pointed to a statement by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel saying the budget deal provides greater "budget certainty," while reducing the impact of massive cuts from so-called sequester.

Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly characterized the cost of living cut as 1%. In fact, it is a cut of 1 percentage point.
 

sssarawolf

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Oh but Con- gress gets their automatic big pay raise every year. Its not even voted on any more. Plus BILLIONS is sent overseas to people that hate us but love our money and then there is corporate welfare; there goes more billions down a hole.
 

dogmanan

Inactive
ARE gov. is nothing but asses how much money has been spent on afgan and Iraq in the last few years to rebuild them and they can't take care of are service people.
 

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
These asshats deserve to be hanged. Every time we get a raise, the prices rise negating the piddly amount we get. Generous pensions my ass. Not bad for officers but noncoms don't get that much.
 

dstraito

TB Fanatic
promises made, promises broken.

Seems to me the elephant in the room that no one is talking about is the vast bubble of people that are either at or near retirement age. When that bubble breaks upon the financial shores, the unfunded liabilities marker will be called. At that time there will be no way to continue making the payouts without printing money or vastly raising taxes either of which will be hugely detrimental to life as we know it.

Those baby boomers that were fortunately enough to plan and save have nice little nest eggs just right for their retirement. Just right that is until they are plundered by hyperinflation and ripe for looting by politicians wanting economic justice (defined as you have more than other people so a little redistribution is in order).

This is equivalent to the grasshoppers obtaining a majority in the insect senate and house and voting to take away what the ants worked hard all summer and fall in preparation for winter. After all, the ants have what is necessary for surviving winter, the grasshoppers don't and that is not fair, is it?
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Keep drinking the Koolaid there Congress.......and the next group you will see marching to Washington (in FULL KIT) will be the MILLIONS of veterans you have betrayed.......and we'll be bringing plenty of Tar and Feathers!!!
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
I'm glad they are cutting military pensions... why do people who have done nothing productive their entire lives (as in government employees) deserve such retirements?!

Answer: they don't--they are government tit-suckers.
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
Veterans deserve the very best healthcare this Country can provide

Just why?!
Why not let them pay like everyone else does?!

Why are they sooooo special and holy?!
 

imaginative

keep your eye on the ball
This is great news.

Tell these old guys to hurry up and get out of the way. We've got to support somalis, mohammedans, muslim brotherhooders., ghettoapes obama vacations and the like.

Nothing better than pissing off a whole bunch of armed Americans. Hopefully we can start taking this country back sooner.

The sig below needs to be re- read regularly
 

big_sarge

Membership Revoked
Shinmen...I get the feeling you are either a) trying to stir the pot, or b) a F*$%ing idiot...

Unless you live in a cave in the mountains, there are lots of .gov things that happen each and every day that you (and the rest of society) rely upon.

Yes, there is waste. Yes, there is stuff that could be cut. But there are lots of things that we need as well.
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
No we don't need them at all now.
FYI--when the "big reset" comes... what is going to emerge on the other end?

VA care?!
Noooooo!
Pensions?!
Noooooo!

Nothing is going to emerge on the other side, simply because it is bankrupting us.

The USA needs to be put into bankruptcy reorganization immediately.
Payouts on these pensions/benefits have to get 10 to 5% on the dollar.... that's it--if that.

Just because some dolt wears a uniform (bus driver, cop, military goon, etc.) doesn't mean they have cart-blanche.

Actually it is going to mean nothing at all soon... and I am all for this.
I'd rather cut the pensions to the bone, than loosing my freedoms because of government tit-suckers.
 

kemosabe

Doooooooooom !
Veterans deserve the very best healthcare this Country can provide

Just why?!
Why not let them pay like everyone else does?!

Why are they sooooo special and holy?!

Because these veterans and those veterans who in the past have sacrificed and PAID IN FULL with their lives .....are the ones who have fought for and kept it possible for you to continue having the freedoms you currently enjoy ... (such as being able to talk shit against our military veterans)..

Now if you had only substituted "govt employees" for veterans , then I could agree..

But your broad brushed strokes that paint all our mil. and veterans as "govt tit suckers" is offensive ..

I like you Shinmen and some of the discussion you bring to the table here at TB , but sometimes you let your emotions control your postings and you come off as a douche..
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
Because these veterans and those veterans who in the past have sacrificed and PAID IN FULL with their lives .....are the ones who have fought for and kept it possible for you to continue having the freedoms you currently enjoy ... (such as being able to talk shit against our military veterans)..

Now if you had only substituted "govt employees" for veterans , then I could agree


The only "veterans" to "sacraficed" to enjoy the freedoms "I enjoy" ended with the WWII veterans....
And in five years 99.9% of these people will be gone--so problem solved.

After that none of them did anything to "secure my freedoms" one tiny bit at all.
Especially these c-average idiots who allegedly sacrificed in Afghanistan and Iraq.
If these wounded clowns need to be taken care of--go and beg for coins on the street.

These people did nothing at all to secure my freedoms one bit (especially true for Afghan and Iraq alleged vets).
They're not working for us. The c-average idiots wearing the trappings of our former military (the "oath mumblers as I call them) are not our military anymore.

If they need hospital care--let George Soros pay for it out of his own pocket.
Perhaps they should petition the United Nations for benefits--because this is who they are working for now, not you and me that's for sure.

But your broad brushed strokes that paint all our mil. and veterans as "govt tit suckers" is offensive .

Then what are they?
FYI--90% of these c-average dolts only join up to be a "government employee" because they need a job and cannot find productive employment in a civilian world.
To boil it down... they spent too much time watching TV cartoons and not enough time with their nose to the grind-stone in school.

You are propelling the standard line of conservative establishment thinking here.
Soon circumstances will change your paradigm... when your beloved "military" comes to drag you out of your home--maybe you'll change your mind.
 

Mongo

Veteran Member
I am retired military and the bottom line is this:
I served and risked my life and sacrificed a great deal over two decades and in return for that service certain promises were made - and now the congress is breaking those promises after I kept mine. And yet they feather their own nests so very well.

Why ANYone would join the military at this time is beyond me
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
You are propelling the standard line of conservative establishment thinking here.
Soon circumstances will change your paradigm... when your beloved "military" comes to drag you out of your home--maybe you'll change your mind.

^^^^^^^^ This !

I think that Congress should not cut existing benefits.

However, know that all wars are wars on behalf of the bankers. These wars do not - by and large - secure our liberty; they only force other countries to continue accepting our lousy paper currency. Sadly, our military's unquestioning adherence to bankster orders will likely extend to our military waging war directly upon the American people.

Now, I would like to see our overseas empire cut - we have 900+ bases on foreign soil. I'd like to see foreign aid cut - I think it's currently at $60 Billion per year. Cutting these are much more important than cutting promises that were already made to Veterans.

That said, sooner or later, all government spending/benefits/pensions will require substantial cuts.

ETA: We should also reduce the size of our military - and we should do it now. Remember, the U.S. military cannot account for $8.5 TRILLION in expenditures.
 

sunflowerstation

Veteran Member
"Shinmen...I get the feeling you are either a) trying to stir the pot, or b) a F*$%ing idiot..."

I'd say both...IN SPADES!!

maybe someday, you'll say something to get you banned from here FOREVER.

wouldn't that be nice.

Sunny
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
"Shinmen...I get the feeling you are either a) trying to stir the pot, or b) a F*$%ing idiot..."

I'd say both...IN SPADES!!

maybe someday, you'll say something to get you banned from here FOREVER.

wouldn't that be nice.

Sunny

Actually, I really like Shinmen. He sometimes says things that I wish I'd thought of . . . :lol:
 

NC Susan

Deceased
Veterans deserve the very best healthcare this Country can provide

Just why?!
Why not let them pay like everyone else does?!

Why are they sooooo special and holy?!

one example. 'so and so' worked for Kodak making camera lens as a tool and die machinist during the build up of the VietNam war. His wages were $8 per hour, with 8 to 16 hour work days seven days a week....... Great union wages with time and a half or over time or Sunday differentials with great rewards such as buying a New Mustang every four months etc. THEN he got his Greetings and welcome to the Army for $68.00 per month
With a war on, and then the cash reenlistment bonus he stayed for 2 plus 6 and then planned to exit back to Kodak EXCEPT there were no jobs to return to after the arrival of the depressed economy thanks to Jimmy Carter....... so he became a lifer and did retire.

His civilian cousins never enlisted, never picked up a gun, never moved out of the county, or the country, never uprooted families or left beloved dogs behind to new homes....... they didnt destroy their legs running 25 miles or more per week in formation or damage their backs slugging 80 pound packs.......

there is a huge difference between the military and the civilians. and a huge pay difference between the active duty military and their well paid civilian mercenary contactor counterparts. What was promised should not be broken
 

NC Susan

Deceased
No we don't need them at all now.
FYI--when the "big reset" comes... what is going to emerge on the other end? VA care?! Noooooo! Pensions?! Noooooo!

Nothing is going to emerge on the other side, simply because it is bankrupting us. The USA needs to be put into bankruptcy reorganization immediately. Payouts on these pensions/benefits have to get 10 to 5% on the dollar.... that's it--if that.

Just because some dolt wears a uniform (bus driver, cop, military goon, etc.) doesn't mean they have cart-blanche
Actually it is going to mean nothing at all soon... and I am all for this.
I'd rather cut the pensions to the bone, than loosing my freedoms because of government tit-suckers.


actually the very programs that are bringing the USA to its knees are not the pensions, but the entitlements programs for the free-bees, wanna-bees and GibsMeDats.
when a welfare mom brings home the equivalent of $ 60thousand dollars per year in subsidies for doing nothing, other than provide creature comforts to her many babies daddies, then those are the programs that should end. Especially after five or six generations of hand outs
 

tech020

Senior Member
As a Viet-Nam era veteran, I did my time and got discharged into a crappy job market. Somehow, between recessions, I got into a field that kept me employed for near 40 years. I didn't much like "lifers" when in the service, but I did respect the job that had to be done. I would rather honor the retirement benefits for them, than the continual "pork barrel" of defense contractors building the wrong weapons for the wrong wars. If the .gov breaks its implied and express promises to veterans, they may have rough time getting new cannon fodder. The system in total is broken, along with most of .gov agencies. I sure don't know how to reset the machine that is the government. We do have an obligation to those that paid with their lives or limbs. Otherwise, we might as well give up any pretense of civilization.
 

DHR43

Since 2001
Military pensions, like corporate pensions, like municipal workers pensions, aren't sustainable. Period.

The concept of massive retiree pensions is a few decades old. The financial model is now being pushed past the limits of sustainability, and it's coming apart. These is not enough money to keep it going.

The people offering the pensions (military brass and federal government) and the people who've accepted the pensions, are both guilty of fraud. Payments to retirees as the decades rolled on was NEVER sustainable, even from the beginning. It doesn't matter if promises were made; the promises were based on non-arithmetic lies.

That's fraud, folks. Sorry.

That well's dry.
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
Why ANYone would join the military at this time is beyond me

Thank you for proving my point.
And you were probably in the military when we actually had a military--somewhat.
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
actually the very programs that are bringing the USA to its knees are not the pensions, but the entitlements programs for the free-bees, wanna-bees and GibsMeDats

Actually.... it's all of them combined.
And we were not supposed to have massive "standing army" which our forefathers warned us about.
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
It doesn't matter if promises were made; the promises were based on non-arithmetic lies.

'Ya-all better get ready to accept this paradigm.
 

Shinmen Takezo

Membership Revoked
Actually, I really like Shinmen. He sometimes says things that I wish I'd thought of . . .

Which is most of the time (and not particularly with you).
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
As a military retiree, I agree that it's shameful the government wants to try to reduce the deficit by reneging on the contract they agreed to with all those who served.
I don't think military retirees would mind it as much if raises for congress, government employees and welfare and food stamp payments were cut back at the same time, but that wasn't the case.
Even though this latest action shows how the government really values it's military, it's not as bad as the news media is making it seem.
The 1% cut is in annual cost of living raises for all those retirees, present and future, until they are 62. Once the retiree reaches 62 his or her pay will increase automatically to what it would have been if the cost of living cuts had never happened.
Most military retirees work another civilian job until they are finally eligible to retire at 62 or 66.

A few years ago the military played around with changing the whole retirement system to one in which retirement benefits would not be paid immediately upon military retirement, but would only start when the person reached 55 years of age. That system didn't go over too well. People weren't staying and the system was changed back to the way it pretty much is today.

What surprises me is that some of the people who are most belittling and bad mouthing our military are the same ones who are constantly warning us about the rising threat of the Chinese or the Norks or the Russian high tech nuclear boogie men. They are the same ones who constantly insist that we are going to get our asses kicked by an aging Russian military, or a Chinese Navy that doesn't even have one operational carrier yet, or the Norks who haven't even got a proven nuke delivery vehicle. Some of these are the same people who say we don't need a career military.

Like many here, I don't agree with or like the way our military has been used in the last several decades. The way you change that is to change the government, not discard the military.

Lastly, ST I have been trying to understand, if you have such hatred and disgust for the military, why did you ever enlist in the first place?
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
I am retired military and the bottom line is this:
I served and risked my life and sacrificed a great deal over two decades and in return for that service certain promises were made - and now the congress is breaking those promises after I kept mine. And yet they feather their own nests so very well.

Why ANYone would join the military at this time is beyond me



Are you sure it was not contractual?
 

mrrk1562

Veteran Member
actually the very programs that are bringing the USA to its knees are not the pensions, but the entitlements programs for the free-bees, wanna-bees and GibsMeDats

Actually.... it's all of them combined.
And we were not supposed to have massive "standing army" which our forefathers warned us about.
yea that is why some of us joined the marines
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
You keep your promises to the people who risked their lives for you. Period.

Not doing so is, effectively, an auto-immune disease at the national level.
 

DHR43

Since 2001
A quick illustration as to why there's no money.

I work for a company that has a 40+ year history; innovative, productive, well-run. Employees have come and gone for decades, many with 5+ years seniority. There is no pension plan, never has been. Profit-sharing, yes. Pension plan, no.

I see the quarterly financials. We make money. We pay good wages. We have good people. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY that the company could have put in place, 40 years ago, a pension plan of any decent size that could be funded for decades and have continued to pay out for decades, even to today.

NO POSSIBLE WAY. The company, the employees, the sales, the profits - totally inadequate for an on-going, viable, trust-worthy pension plan for those who used to work on our behalf AND NO LONGER DO.

To say otherwise would be lying.

The feds CANNOT pay all the pensions, even military. The fact that they made an unwise 'promise' to do so for as long as the claim lives is regardless of the arithmetic. Numbers count WAY more than the 'I risked my life for you and deserve it.'

It's fraud. Both sides. Can't continue. And won't.

Is this that hard to understand?
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
I do agree with Shinmen about one thing, what is coming is going to shake us to our core and change everything around us. This can only happen with a total economic collapse which I see on the horizon.

But to say cops and veterans don't deserve retirements and handouts when everyone else are getting theirs, is ridiculous. We haven't collapsed yet. We'll cross that road when it gets there.
I beg your pardon that someone along the way offended you so, but do you know how I many times I've put my life on the line doing my job? How many lives I have personally saved? No offense to pencil pushers, but some things you just can't put a value on. How can one measly pension not be worth the reward I worked so hard to get?
I never expected to be rich for doing the work I did, but I did believe in the promises they made when I was hired.

They need to keep their promises, until the economic collapse happens. Until then, they need to keep on, keeping on.

MM
 

imaginative

keep your eye on the ball
Rather than cut funding to illegal aliens- it was simpler and cost less votes to cut vet benefits


Senate Dems block amendment to restore veteran benefits by closing illegal immigrant welfare loophole

Senate Republicans were unable to stop military pension cuts when Senate Democrats blocked a vote on an amendment to prevent the cuts by closing a welfare loophole for illegal immigrants Tuesday evening.

The two-year budget deal brokered by Senate Budget Committee Chairwoman Patty Murray and House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, would cut military pensions by $6 billion over ten years, leaving some Senate Republicans scrambling to stop the cuts.

“Removing this unbalanced treatment of our military retirees ought to be one of the key actions we should take before this legislation moves forward. In fact, greater savings than this can be achieved by passing a legislative fix recommended by the Inspector General of the U.S. Treasury that would stop the IRS from improperly providing tax credits to illegal aliens,” Alabama Republican Jeff Sessions said Monday, announcing his co-sponsorship of Mississippi Republican Sen. Roger Wicker’s amendment to restore the military retirement benefits Monday.

Additionally, the Alabama Republican offered his own amendment to restore the cuts by targeting a child tax credit loophole that illegal immigrants have used to unlawfully obtain welfare benefits.

In 2011, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration found that “individuals who are not authorized to work in the United States” and therefore did not have a valid Social Security number were still able to obtain billions in Additional Child Tax Credits by filing returns with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.

Specifically the Internal Revenue Service watchdog found that unauthorized individuals received $4.2 billion refundable credits in Processing Year 2010.

Tuesday evening, Sessions attempted to force Majority Leader Harry Reid allow amendments the budget agreement.

Sessions hoped to attach his amendment to the deal — which would have closed the loophole by requiring a Social Security number to claim the refundable portion of the child tax credit and restore military retirement benefits.

Sessions’ motion failed on a 46 – 54 party line vote, with North Carolina Sen. Kay Hagan crossing the aisle as the lone Democrat to vote with the Republicans.

“Reid’s majority just voted to keep pension cut for vets instead of cutting welfare payments to illegal aliens,” a Sessions aide emailed.

Meanwhile, Sessions slammed Reid and Democrats for blocking amendments and ideas that would prevent the cuts to military retirement benefits, including those for disabled retirees.

“Today, Reid and his majority quashed the ability of any Senator to offers amendments to the spending deal that emerged from the House. They voted to undermine their own ability as Senators to offer amendments and do legislative work in the clear light of day,” Sessions said in a statement after his motion was voted down.

“They voted to block the Senate from working to improve this tax-and-spend deal,” he added. “Finally, by blocking my amendment, they voted to cut pensions for wounded warriors. Senators in this chamber have many valid ideas for replacing these pension cuts, including my proposal to close the tax welfare loophole for illegal filers, and all deserved a fair and open hearing. But they were denied.”

Murray argued that adding more amendments would jeopardize the carefully crafted bill and noted that, given the two-year time frame Democrats and Republicans could continue to work together to find savings in the future.

The budget deal, which has already passed in the House, is expected to pass in the Senate Wednesday.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/18/s...y-closing-illegal-immigrant-welfare-loophole/
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
“Reid’s majority just voted to keep pension cut for vets instead of cutting welfare payments to illegal aliens,”

Why in the hell are we using taxpayers money to pay for ILLEGAL ALIENS!! WTFO?!?!?!?

SOOOO our flucked up government morons are going to short change our veterans.....people that have EARNED their citizenship in favor of flipping foreign INVADERS!!

And....yet we haven't heard of CONGRESS cutting a single one of their benefits. They get elected and serve ONE TERM and RETIRE with full benefits and FULL RETIREMENT PAY!!
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
Rather than cut funding to illegal aliens- it was simpler and cost less votes to cut vet benefits


Senate Dems block amendment to restore veteran benefits by closing illegal immigrant welfare loophole

Senate Republicans were unable to stop military pension cuts when Senate Democrats blocked a vote on an amendment to prevent the cuts by closing a welfare loophole for illegal immigrants Tuesday evening. . . .

Remember that a bunch of republicans voted to end the filibuster - thereby allowing this to proceed with a mere majority vote. I suppose these same republicans will now vote against the bill; but it was their cloiture vote that will have allowed it to pass.
 

Zahra

Veteran Member
The house version of the bill spared disabled military retirees, but the senate version included cuts to disabled veteran's as well -- this is morally unconscionable and utterly reprehensible! Period!
 

Bubble Head

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Looking forward to 2014. The rumor mill is a lot of Vets are planning on running next year. I say good. If it wasn't for the Vets in this Country the lifer fat asses in DC would not even have a chair to sit on. Obeast gave 8 billion to the muzzie brotherhood this last year. We have our southern boarder being overrun with drug gangs and anchor babies. We have a welfare system that encourages more welfare. There is much to be fixed. If Congress can not live up to their promises to Vets because of monetary reasons then why are we still using Federal Reserve Notes. Does this mean they are worthless or better yet the whole system is worthless. I would say yes. A contract was signed when you enlist and reup. If you do not follow the rules of the contract you can end up in Federal Prison. If this contract is what broke the government so be it. They wrote it and in my case it was mandatory service at the time you turned 18. I have listened to all the whiners and run away reason for not fulfilling obligation to the US Government by avoiding the draft over the years and how stupid I was to join and serve. After a while you get to see that little dribble of shit running down the side of their mouth and turn them around and for all their high talk there usually is a yellow streak on the back. Just didn't want to leave that comfort zone or mama. They need to honor the contract. If they wish to change things they should change them with a new enlistment contract not go retroactive. On another point, has anyone who is military retired had their Tricare changed and if so how? This was another contract. I have heard that it was or is about to be changed. Please post if so. I salute and thank all Vets for their service.:sal: As far as Congress, the Senate, and the absent President you can kiss my ass.:mn:
 
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