USA Israeli Nuclear Arsenal Prohibits US Foreign Aid Under Symington Amendment

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Our country is in peril, tent cities popping up everywhere, unemployment rampant constantly under attack by illegal immigrants taking our jobs, under financial attack so much that people's retirement funds are literally disappearing and yet Zionists want to give billions of taxpayer dollars to another country, a country that lies about it's nuclear capabilities and refused to sign non-proliferation treaties because then it would have to officially fess up to having nukes.

I'm not singling out everyone's precious Israeli warmongers, I think we need to cut off foreign aid to EVERYBODY starting with Israel. That money should be helping our own country, PERIOD.

I look at it much as we looked at the advance of Nazism in Europe. Was that our problem, if ALL of Europe and half of Asia and Africa had been conquered by Hitler?
Eventually you would have to face them. Sooner or later.
Many people see Israel as a foothold or beach head against the advance of Islam. Israel should be the LAST nation you cut off. Start with aid to Pakistan and some of the African sinkholes if you want to start cutting aid.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
This may be of interest for those who sincerely want to know why it is in America's interests to stand by Israel. Posting this does not necessarily reflect my agreement with or endorsement of any of these but merely reflects the reality of the statement that supporting Israel has been in America's self-interest.

Strategic Reasons for Continuing U.S. Support
There is a broad bipartisan consensus among policymakers that Israel has advanced U.S. interest in the Middle East and beyond.

*Israel has successfully prevented victories by radical nationalist movements in Lebanon and Jordan, as well as in Palestine.

*Israel has kept Syria, for many years an ally of the Soviet Union, in check.

*Israel's air force is predominant throughout the region.

*Israel's frequent wars have provided battlefield testing for American arms, often against Soviet weapons.

*It has served as a conduit for U.S. arms to regimes and movements too unpopular in the United States for openly granting direct military assistance, such as apartheid South Africa, the Islamic Republic in Iran, the military junta in Guatemala, and the Nicaraguan Contras. Israeli military advisers have assisted the Contras, the Salvadoran junta, and foreign occupation forces in Namibia and Western Sahara.

*Israel's intelligence service has assisted the U.S. in intelligence gathering and covert operations.

*Israel has missiles capable of reaching as far as the former Soviet Union, it possesses a nuclear arsenal of hundreds of weapons, and it has cooperated with the U.S. military-industrial complex with research and development for new jet fighters and anti-missile defense systems.
http://www.fpif.org/papers/usisrael.html
 

Dex

Constitutional Patriot
"By Way of Deception, We Wage War."

-The motto of the Mossad Israeli spy agency.
 

Walker10

Veteran Member
Of course the Israelis are a friend of the USA and, for most of the past century, vice versa held true. Israel is fighting Islamic imperialism, aggression and terror and so are the nations of the West, including America.

Murdering our citizens and saliors (USS Liberty)...operating one of the largest, maybe the largest intelligence gathering operations devoted to stealing our military/industrial secrets...trying to lasso us into fighting their battles for them...need I go on? You have a strange definition of 'friend.'

To the contrary, I think that the USA and much of the world hopes to rope Israel into looking after their Iran problem for them, then through their secret sighs of relief, plan to self-righteously condemn Israel for doing their dirty work for them.
Iran is less of a problem than the Zionists would have you believe. simply supporting the Iranian resistence or flat out recognizing the resistance as the legitimate government of Iran would quickly put an end to the Iranian threat. Bear in mind that the overwhelming numbers of Iranians who are pro-western and would welcome that kind of aid in overthrowing the mullahs. This is also the most desirable outcome from the US perspective, win and gain the respect of the Iranian people and repair relations. But that doesn't fit into the Israeli narrative. In that narrative, they must present the Iranians as a mortal threat that has to be beaten militarily...and that outcome would be the worst for the US.
 

Ender

Inactive
That is secondary. There may be Americans scattered throughout the world but there is ONE nation of America.

This is absolutely NOT secondary.

Americans are a nationality- not a race, creed, or religion. Most Christians who support Israel, because of biblical references, are confusing the two.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
"By Way of Deception, We Wage War."

-The motto of the Mossad Israeli spy agency.

"Allah's Apostle said, 'War is deceit." ... abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception. ...Qur'an 4:142

"All war is based on deception." -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Mossad's former motto: be-tachbūlōt ta`aseh lekhā milchāmāh (Hebrew: בתחבולות תעשה לך מלחמה‎ is a quote from the Bible (Proverbs 24:6): "For by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory". (Hebrew "tachbulot" - wise guidance - is more commonly translated as "cunning"/"trick" or even "deception").

The motto was changed recently, (1973), as part of the Mossad's public 'coming out' to another Proverbs passage: be-'éyn tachbūlōt yippol `ām; ū-teshū`āh be-rov yō'éts (Hebrew: באין תחבולות יפול עם, ותשועה ברוב יועץ‎) (Proverbs 11:14). This is translated by NRSV (New Revised Standard Version of the Bible) as: "Where there is no guidance, a nation falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety."

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

wardogs
 

Ozarkian

Veteran Member
Oh my God Walker10 get a brain!!!!!!! You are so anti Israel you make me wanna puke, and you don't have a clue about what the Bible says. :shk:
 

Ender

Inactive
Oh my God Walker10 get a brain!!!!!!! You are so anti Israel you make me wanna puke, and you don't have a clue about what the Bible says.

Very intelligent post, guaranteed to win friends and influence people.

Why don't you supply the clue?
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
Mossad's former motto: be-tachbūlōt ta`aseh lekhā milchāmāh (Hebrew: בתחבולות תעשה לך מלחמה‎ is a quote from the Bible (Proverbs 24:6): "For by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory". (Hebrew "tachbulot" - wise guidance - is more commonly translated as "cunning"/"trick" or even "deception").

The motto was changed recently, (1973), as part of the Mossad's public 'coming out' .

wardogs

Usually the most common translation is the correct one.
They had to change it because people found out what it meant.
"cunning"/"trick" or even "deception - Ummm Like the unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
Slap that sticker on the CIA, or the Yard, or any other agency. Big deal. That's how 'stuff' gets done.
Nice try but not even close.
Motto - FBI - "Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity."
Motto - CIA- "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

Not even in the same ball park!
 
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Walker10

Veteran Member
Oh my God Walker10 get a brain!!!!!!! You are so anti Israel you make me wanna puke, and you don't have a clue about what the Bible says. :shk:
Please, stop making yourself look silly.

I'm not anti-Israel, I'm pro-American (re-read any of my posts on this subject and that is abundantly clear). I just don't believe like the Zionists do, that the US exists for the sole purpose of insuring Israel's existence. I could care less what happens in the Middle East. All sides have made their beds and now they have to lie in them...Israel too. And don't give me the crap that Israel is somehow our 'good' friend, etc. There is overwhelming proof to any objective individual that exactly the opposite it is true. They are a country, like any other country, that seeks to preserve itself first and foremost, even at the expense of it's 'good' friend the US and that is EXACTLY how they behave in the world.

As far as the Bible goes, as I said to Sarah Lynn, the mistake, the HISTORICAL mistake that the Zionists make, is in ASSUMING that the Bible refers to the time period in which they live. And, HISTORICALLY, everyone who thought that and operated under that ASSUMPTION, has been proven wrong.

And they are wrong now also, re-read post #30 for some examples of why that is so.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Iran is less of a problem than the Zionists would have you believe. simply supporting the Iranian resistence or flat out recognizing the resistance as the legitimate government of Iran would quickly put an end to the Iranian threat. Bear in mind that the overwhelming numbers of Iranians who are pro-western and would welcome that kind of aid in overthrowing the mullahs. This is also the most desirable outcome from the US perspective, win and gain the respect of the Iranian people and repair relations. But that doesn't fit into the Israeli narrative. In that narrative, they must present the Iranians as a mortal threat that has to be beaten militarily...and that outcome would be the worst for the US.

Is that all you have, the tired old re-tread of the Liberty? Please, let's get into the same century here. Israel and the USA have worked together as allies, and have treaties as allies to the present. The USA continues to call nations such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan "friends" who have done far, FAR worse to America and they continue to fund terrorism against America.


If you think that merely recognizing the Iranian "resistance" would put an end to the imperialistic and aggressive ambitions of Islam, you simply haven't been listening.
It is the radical imperialistic agenda of Islam which does not fit into the narrative of ANY decent people ANYWHERE.
Your pointing of the finger at Israel is simply false and misrepresents the facts. America's issues with Iran pre-date any Israeli involvement and go back to Jimmy Carter and the Ayatollahs. Israel has no culpability in that.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Usually the most common translation is the correct one.
They had to change it because people found out what it meant.
"cunning"/"trick" or even "deception - Ummm Like the unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty.


I'm shocked that a spy agency would use stealthy/double agent/deceptive tactics, simply shocked I tell you!!

The Liberty wasn't unprovoked-they were apparently relaying Israeli troop movements to other parties of interest-but of course you'd hardly care about a few thousand dead Jews.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
This is absolutely NOT secondary.

Americans are a nationality- not a race, creed, or religion. Most Christians who support Israel, because of biblical references, are confusing the two.


Israelis consider themselves to be a nationality too.
Their nation is Israel.
Not all Israelis are religious and not all are "racially" Jewish.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
Iran is less of a problem than the Zionists would have you believe. simply supporting the Iranian resistence or flat out recognizing the resistance as the legitimate government of Iran would quickly put an end to the Iranian threat. Bear in mind that the overwhelming numbers of Iranians who are pro-western and would welcome that kind of aid in overthrowing the mullahs. This is also the most desirable outcome from the US perspective, win and gain the respect of the Iranian people and repair relations. But that doesn't fit into the Israeli narrative. In that narrative, they must present the Iranians as a mortal threat that has to be beaten militarily...and that outcome would be the worst for the US.

Wow, talk about some double standards....I thought that our "supporting Iranian resistance" was the core of our problems with Iran?
It was a covert operation that deposed the "democratically-elected Government" of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq that started all these problems, right? Damn, we just can't get anything right...

Viewed through the lens of the Cold War, (Mosaddeq was a Socialist/Communist who was dealing with the Russians and had nationalized the British and American oil companies), the Eisenhower administration’s decision to support the Shah seems justified, and a similar action by Jimmy Carter might have stopped the Islamic Revolution in 1979 if he had kept his word.

Bush tried again to do just what you are suggesting even though any "resistance movement" in Iran was virtually non-existent, the "resistance" lived outside the country and what indigenous movement there was were brutally hunted and murdered by the “Islamic Republican” government.

Still, he tried. Right up until that treasonous scumbag Seymour Hersh published this article in the New Yorker...

The Coming Wars
What the Pentagon can now do in secret.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/01/24/050124fa_fact

In it he exposed the operation, putting many, many lives in danger and causing the torture and deaths of people we will never even know about.

Of course, the Bush haters picked it up and ran with it just for political gain.

Even now, just writing a blog will get you killed...

Mysterious death of a blogger in Evin
Mar 18th, 2009 | By Editor | Category: News
http://www.iranian-americans.com/2009/03/885.html

It may help to really understand what kind of people we are dealing with here.
Aside from the religious fanaticism, these are evil folks. With the Iranian election coming up let's look at the candidates and their "qualifications"....

Ex-President of Islamic Iran, Khatami, like many of Khomeini's selections for high office. has now withdrawn his candidacy to run for President.

Yes, "selection", because it is never an election but rather an installation of a person selected by the powers that be. And those powers are now clashing over who that might be.

Current president Ahmadinejad, a proponent of wiping Israel off the world map, (yes Ender, he has said that, despite the mewlings of Juan Cole...), still has a following among some who feel he is for the little guy (accidental pun appropriate). But the fact he passed many millions of dollars to his brother through corrupt no-bid contracts stacks against him. As does the missing income of billions of windfall profits from the rise in oil prices. Nobody can pinpoint where this money went and how it was spent. Nor will Ahmadinejad provide any clues as to what he did with this very large "off budget" income.

Supreme Ruler Khamenei put Islamically fervent (but otherwise a screwball) Ahmadinejad into the presidency (via a mock election in 2005) at the bidding of a 12th Imam Hojatieh ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi nicknamed the "crocodile" to take some of the pressure off himself from the growing conservative Islamic opposition that had built up during the "softer" Khatami presidency terms.

Softer is a relative term since Khatami sent hit squads around the world to assassinate anti-mullah opposition leaders or activists and can be considered "gentler" the way a certain shark may be less intent on attacking humans compared to the Great White Sharks.

Like all the others in the Mullah leadership - he is a killer with little compunction at expending human life to forward his plans. He "talked the talk of reform" but never walked the walk...as the many public hangings from cranes can attest...

In all fairness he was given an offer he could not refuse that turned him from a slightly less fanatical Islamist into a totally ineffective leader.

In case you missed the articles, Supreme Leader Khomeini turned him around by threatening to have every female of any age gang raped in the Supreme Leader's office in front of Khatami.

They had all been brought there en masse, as well as some 40 extra bodyguards. to perform the deed.

The Supreme Ruler said: (paraphrase) "you can either work with us and continue fooling the west into thinking we have a democracy or live the rest of your life with the view of all your females, - wife, mother, sister and their children relatives enjoyed forcefully time and again by the extra men I have commanded here to enforce my suggestion. And explain to them why you let this disgrace and pain happen, when you could have stopped it."

Khatami folded and became a yes-man, losing his younger, mostly student, constituency, who felt betrayed, without knowing why, by his inaction and failure to carry out reforms he had promised.

Meanwhile, Supreme Ruler has had in mind to elevate the father of his son's wife, Ali Haddaad Aadel, to the president position but is running into resistance. He might yet succeed, which will consolidate his power structure but will be dooming for the Iranian population struggling for more freedom.

A new - or rather repeat - player has wandered onto the scene. His name? Mir Hossein Moussavi, latest candidate for the mullah regime presidency.

Before the post of Prime Minister disappeared in islamic iran, Moussavi handled the position for Khomeini and later for the current Supreme Leader Khamenei (don't confuse the two similar names, who held/hold the top dog position).

Moussavi has fanatical religious tendencies but does NOT wear a cleric's robes. In fact, often seen in a well taiiored suit. Despite his strong religious beliefs, he has a reputation for being efficient more worldy wise than the "foot-in-mouth" Ahmadi-Nejad. The Western Press loves him...he's so...moderate.

His ruthless Khomeini stint as Prime Minister was labelled the "dark days" and his similar post for Khamenei was cut short when the current Supreme Leader suddenly discharged him - out of some fear of Moussavi's management abilities and possible threat to his boss' status.

Khatami's withdrawal stems partially from some threats thrown at him ostensibly by Moussavi that if he persisted with his candidacy, he would end up dead like Benazeer Bhutto in Pakistan.

However, the most pertinent reason was not the threat but the lack of votes he would get from those whose support he had lost in his previous presidencies. The increasingly large disenchanted populace who want change (not the disasterous Obama type) but who no longer count on Khatami to produce any.

The mystery lies with why Khatami has added an endorsement of Moussavi alongside withdrawing, calling him a reformist. Not clearly a historical trait of the harsh former Prime Minister.

What comes out in the wash over the next three months will set the trend for the Mullah regime profile and near future policies after their sham elections - that is if Israel fails to ignore the pro-islamic Obama administration admonitions and takes necessary action against the Islamic regime.

That's the Iranian political situation.

Add in, that fully 1/3, (read that again so it sinks in), ONE THIRD of Iran's population is addicted to Afghan "brown sugar" heroin, (the highest addiction rate per capita in the world), and that as a consequence, AIDS has become rampant. The Mullahs of course responded predictably. They imprisoned or executed doctors who worked on the AIDS epidemic if they dared to speak publicly about the problem. It is so bad presently that the government has actually initiated programs for free needles and Methadone centers in an effort to stem the tide. Absolutely unheard of in an Islamic theocracy.

It may be that the Wilayat al-Faqih, or "Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists" (the 12th Imam Clerics who rule Iran), are covering their butts while waiting for the Mahdi...(just in case, you know?) Recent financial disclosures have revealed that many of the top clerics have funneled billions of dollars out of the country into private offshore accounts...

Our irritating habit of freezing Iranian accounts or that Israel may actually DO something about their weapons program has caused some sleepless nights...

Some Foreign bank accounts of islamic iranian leaders
http://noiri.blogspot.com/2009/04/some-foreign-bank-accounts-of-islamic.html

"...1) Ali Khamenei
- Sparkasse Bank (Frankfurt/Germany) Acct.# 234075617: DM 112.1 Millions
- Corner Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct. # 217824: US$ 97 Millions
- Banque Cantonale (Lausanne/CH) Acct. # 71713: US$ 73.2 Millions

Note; about a couple of years ago, the Supreme Ruler, alarmed at his fortune possibly being frozen, transfered about TWO BILLION dollars to Banks in Brunei, Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia. The above are his petty cash accounts not worth the bother.

BTW before the 1979 revolution Ali Khamenei survived in a one room dwelling in the poorest part of town by begging for alms at Mashhad cemeteries during burials and the occasional charity food package from the shrine of Imam Reza,


2) Ali Akbar Hashemi Rasfandjani
- Union Bank Suisse (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 223870390: SF 532.5 Millions
- Societe Generale (Zurich/CH) Acct.# 30064183: DM 477.2 Millions
- Sparkasse (Ciborg/Germany) Acct. # 2957132: DM 238.2 Millions

Here too these are just the tip of the iceberg as he has several BILLION dollars in offshore accounts. And humongous land developent projects in Canada.

BEFORE the revolution Rafsandjani's "fortune" consisted of owning a pistachio orchard!

3) Mohammad Ali Tasskhiri
- Societe Generale (Geneve/Ch) Acct.# 500032654: DM 280.7 Millions
- Midland Bank (London/UK) Acct.# 832-150270: BP 12.2 Millions
- Dressdner bank (Dusserdolf/Germany) Acct.# 8354783: DM 48.3 Millions

4 ) Mohammad Golpayegani
- Credit Bank Suisse (Geneve/CH) Acct.# CEO7680: SF 85.7 Millions

5) Bijan Namdar Zangene
- Union Bank Suisse (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 314380320: US$ 141.7 Millions

6) Habibollah Asgar Oladi
- Corner Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct. # 3983BHK: US$ 180 Millions

7) Ahmad Jannati
- Midland Bank (London/UK) Acct.# 92114016: BP 54.2 Millions

8) Abdollah Nategh Nouri
- Union Banque Suisse (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 2102120321ND: USD 123.9 Millions
- Deutsh bank (Hamburg/Germany) Acct.# 03223486: DM 64.1 Millions

9) Mohsen Rafighdoost:
- Union Banque Suisse (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 2183130687: USD 122.7 Millions

10) Mohsen Hashemi Bahremani
- Deutsh bank (Munchen 3/Germany) Acct.# 1732736: DM 370.7 Millions
- Credit Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 928530FC: USD 178.2 Millions

11) Abbas Vaez-Tabassi
- Corner Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct.# FAH7272: SF 97.2 Millions
- Sparkasse (Hamburg/Germany) Acct #. DFH72251660: USD 216.7 Millions

12) Hossein Shariatmadari
- Midland Bank (London/UK) Acct.# 34414011: BP 37.8 Millions

13) Mohsen Rezai
- Union Banque Suisse (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 442760430: USD 78.2 Millions
- Credit Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct.# FAH7967: SF 52.7 Millions

14) Massood Movahedian
- Commerz Bank (Koln/Germany) Acct.# 3528817: DM 287.8 Millions

15) Kamal Kharrazi
- Corner Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct.# AMF4567: USD 18.2 Millions

16) Ali-Reza Mo-ayeri
- Societe Generale (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 50024814: USD12.6 Millions

17) Hossein Kordi
- Corner Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct.#14710025: USD 14.7 Millions

18) Abbas-Ali Forooghi
- Corner Bank (Geneve/CH) Acct.# 12930034: USD 10.7 Millions

19) Mohammad Hashemi Bahremani
- Deutsh Bank (Munich 3/Germany) Acct.# 1734726: DM 177.2 Millions..."


Of course, these are the folks Obama wants to "engage" in "talks".

Sternly worded letters and "a carrot and stick" approach will sureley turn them from their nuclear ambitions...

After all, they are such reasonable folks, just "misunderstood", or as Juan Cole and Ender insist, we "mistranslate" their intentions....:shk:

wardogs
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
"Allah's Apostle said, 'War is deceit." ... abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception. ...Qur'an 4:142

"All war is based on deception." -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Mossad's former motto: be-tachbūlōt ta`aseh lekhā milchāmāh (Hebrew: בתחבולות תעשה לך מלחמה‎ is a quote from the Bible (Proverbs 24:6): "For by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory". (Hebrew "tachbulot" - wise guidance - is more commonly translated as "cunning"/"trick" or even "deception").

The motto was changed recently, (1973), as part of the Mossad's public 'coming out' to another Proverbs passage: be-'éyn tachbūlōt yippol `ām; ū-teshū`āh be-rov yō'éts (Hebrew: באין תחבולות יפול עם, ותשועה ברוב יועץ‎) (Proverbs 11:14). This is translated by NRSV (New Revised Standard Version of the Bible) as: "Where there is no guidance, a nation falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety."

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

wardogs

Oh, don't expect facts to persuade those whose minds are already made up.
They KNOW. Israel is evil. EVERY TIME.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
The Liberty wasn't unprovoked-they were apparently relaying Israeli troop movements to other parties of interest.

Run that by me again!
Are you serious? So you are really justifying an Israeli attack on a US Naval Ship?
I think you should go research this more before you say another word.
SarahLynn you really showed where you loyalties are with this statement.
Is that all you have, the tired old re-tread of the Liberty? Please, let's get into the same century here.
Unfreaking believable.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
Usually the most common translation is the correct one.
They had to change it because people found out what it meant.
"cunning"/"trick" or even "deception - Ummm Like the unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty.

You mean it was a SECRET?? It was on their stationary and seal, like all other agencies do. :lkick::lkick:

It is a verse from the BIBLE, and an axiom for warfare in virtually every culture.

Let's discuss Iran's intelligence agency, VEVAK. Since you never bring up anything other than those evil JOOOOS, let's compare...

The new big boss is a thug called Ejdehi, who was one of the hands-on torturers and murderers of the 1988 eradication of 30,000 political prisoners inside Iran's dungeons. His ruthless, sadistic, mindless infliction of pain and death earned him a reputation of a true follower of Islam and his top position today.

When Ayatollah Boroujerdi rose up in opposition to the regime during the past year, Ejdehi told Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei not to worry and that he would present the dissident Ayatollah's head to him on a platter by morning.

Other than keeping the respected cleric alive (instead of beheading him) to torture him for months on end before a more recent death sentence closes the chapter on him and dozens of his supporters, now also facing the hangman's noose, he had the man kicked and beaten on his way to a bus after he was arrested, to add insult to injury...

And ransacked and pillaged everything in the senior cleric's home.

Though some of the names mentioned below have been replaced by others of a similar ilk, the overview is still good.

What they do not realize is that the West and some of the opposition groups have penetrated the veil and know much more detail than the VEVAK big shots would like others to know.

As an example of the cracks in their system, the US was able to obtain an abstract of a file of one of their infiltrators into the West.

Disinformation? No. it damned one of their own key people beyond repair.

He has not been arrested by the West but is being carefully and quietly monitored. What this otherwise secret person does is now giving away lots of pointers and information.

Berlin, May 06 – Iran’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS) is ranked by experts as one of the largest and most active intelligence agencies in the Middle East, having masterminded 450 acts of terrorism throughout the world since the 1980s, yet it has been shrouded in so much mystery that apart from the occasional revelations by the Iranian Resistance, little has ever been made public about its operations and functions.

Its secret budget and unchecked power have turned it into one of the key pillars of the Iranian theocracy.

The MOIS is also one of the most secretive agencies in the world and its command structure is directly answerable to the Iranian regime’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

The current Minister of Intelligence and Security, Hojatoleslam Ali Younesi, was appointed the Head of the Revolutionary Court of Tehran and later Head of the Politico-Ideological Bureau of Islamic Revolutionary GuardsCorps (IRGC) soon after the 1979 revolution that toppled the Shah.

In 1982 Younesi was appointed Religious Judge of the Military Revolutionary Tribunals. He was one of the founders of the MOIS. In 1986 he was appointed representative of the Supreme Leader to oversee the reconstruction of the Intelligence Directorate of the army upon the order of Ayatollah Khomeini.

In 1987 he became the Representative of the Acting Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces at the Intelligence Directorate of the army, and was appointed a religious judge.

The summer of 1988 marked a turning-point in Younesi’s rise within the clerical regime’s hierarchy. As one of the religious judges charged with implementing Ayatollah Khomeini’s fatwa to execute all “non-repentant”political prisoners, Younesi distinguished himself by presiding over one of the most ruthless tribunals, dispatching prisoners to their deaths summarily after trials that barely lasted more than five minutes.

Younesi’s performance in 1988 led to his promotion to one of the top slots in the Iranian regime’s judicial system and he became the head of the Judicial Organisation of the Armed Forces.

When in 1999 another Shiite cleric, Dorri Najafabadi, needed to be replaced as Minister of Intelligence and Security in the wake of the disclosure of MOIS agents’ murder of dozens of intellectuals and dissidents, Younesi was given the job.

The MOIS is a ministry only in name, for it operates under the direct supervision of the Supreme Leader. It is not accountable to either the cabinet or the parliament, has a secret budget, and stands above the law.Over the past two decades, it has grown into a huge machinery of political repression.

The Iranian regime’s use of terrorism as an adjunct to foreign policy has developed into an organised and professional activity over the last 25-years masterminded by the MOIS.

It has been used as a lever to gain advantages from Western countries or to exert more pressure on surviving opponents of the regime.

Many of Iran’s diplomats have a record of previous service with the MOIS, the IRGC, and other security agencies. The MOIS works in coordination with the Foreign Ministry in operations carried outa broad, making particular use of Iranian embassies worldwide as hubs for gatheringi ntelligence and diplomatic passes for agents involved in terrorista ctivities.

Internally, agents of the MOIS are rigorously tested before they are given security clearance and trusted enough to take part in operations which could potentially implicate the highest levels of the regime’s leadership to state corruption should someone decide to expose the agency.

Of the members, who themselves were hand picked from other security agencies inside the country, are first required to take part in the killing and torturing of dissidents, to ensure their loyalty to the regime and its Supreme Leader.

Throughout the years, on a number of occasions, the MOIS has gone through “internal purges”, whereby agents showing weakness conveniently“ disappeared” or “committed suicide”.

From 1997 to 1998, after a series of gruesome murders of Iranian dissidents by MOIS “liquidators” became public,the then-deputy Intelligence Minister Saeed Emami was jailed on conspicuous charges, and later “committed suicide” in prison.

The regime thus prevented any leak of sensitive information about the MOIS operations, as this would have compromised the entire leadership of the Islamic Republic. Such internal purges and murders within the MOIS sparked a feud at the highest levels of the agency, which landed top officials from the losing side in prison.
_____
Iran: Profile of VEVAK’s Master Terrorist - Mohammad-Reza Iravani (a.k.a.Amir-Hossein Taghavi)
http://www.iranfocus.com/en/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=2227

May 27 Iran’s sophisticated intelligence operations abroad are led by a shadowy figure at the helm of VEVAK

By Nader Shakiba

http://www.iranfocus.com/uploads/img4297a32d7ad2f.jpg

Berlin,Germany, May 27 (Iran Terror Website)

Hojjatol-Islam Ali Younessi, the Shiite cleric who runs Iran’s dreaded secret police, the Ministry of Intelligence and Security (known more commonly by its Persian acronym, VEVAK), did not try to conceal his anger and minced no words.

Appearing on Iran’s state-run television on the evening of March 25, he warned Iran’s main opposition group, the Mujahedin-e Khalq (MeK) with severe consequences for their continuing “mischief-making”.

“I have instructed my deputy today to lose no time in informing international organizations of the crimes of the [MeK], so that it would be documented that they have committed grave crimes,” the mid-ranking mullahsaid.

Younesi’s comments came on a night when Tehran and other major cities acrossthe country were in turmoil as throngs of young people heeded opposition calls to turn the traditional Persian fire festival into a night of anti-government protests.

The VEVAK chief (of that time) did not name his deputy and veryfew people outside the cloisters of power in Tehran are even aware of the identity of this shadowy man. But the Minister of Intelligence and Security was referring to Mohammad-Reza Iravani, the deputy chief of VEVAK.

Assassin, diplomat, agent-runner, senior bureaucrat, serial killer; these are just a handful of the many roles that Mohammad Reza Iravani has played in his twenty-six years of service in the security services of Iran’sclerical regime.

Known inside Iran’s officialdom by his pseudonym, Amir-Hossein Taghavi, he has a track record that makes him a cross between a Cold War spy master and a Mafia godfather. In one of the many grisly murders he has ordered or committed, he and his fellow VEVAK officers stabbed to death Darioush Forouhar, an Iranian dissident, and his wife Parvaneh in their home in Tehran in November 1998. Forouhar, 72, received 11 knifeblows; his wife’s body took 24 stabs.

Acting on Younesi’s instructions, Iravani has been coordinating a new disinformation campaign, targeting the MeK. He scored a propaganda coup on May 18, when Human Rights Watch put out a 28-page report on alleged humanrights violations by the MeK. Of the 12 “witnesses” Human Rights Watch cited in the report, every single one was familiar to Iravani. All were VEVAKagents operating in the Netherlands and Germany.

The latest disinformation coup, much like Iravani’s earlier successes in assassinations and infiltration of dissident groups, is sure to smooth his path to higher positions in the theocratic state.

Iravani has shown his political skills in high-level negotiations with French and German officials, in talks with representatives of the Irish Republican Army on joint operations, in sensitive discussions on Iraq with senior British officials, and in hammering out security deals with neighboring Arab officials.

But his steady and rapid rise to the highest echelons of power in clergy-ruled Iran has been marked with untold violence and bloodshed every step of the way.

When Sir Jeremy Greenstock, a senior British diplomat, visited Tehran in January 2004 to talk to Iranian officials on the situation in neighboring Iraq, he did not know that the bearded man who led the Iranian team in the talks was a top assassin and terrorist of VEVAK.

Iravani’s talks with Greenstock focused on the issues of some 4,000 members of the opposition MeK based in Iraq.

From hitman to VEVAK’s top gun

But there is more to Iravani than negotiating skills. Before he rose to senior positions in VEVAK, and even afterwards, Iravani did the dirty work of Iranian intelligence. He was one of the first to be recruited into the new Ministry of Intelligence and Security after it was founded in 1984 underthe direction of Ayatollah Mohammad Mohammadi Rayshahri.

Up until that time,the mullahs who ascended to power in 1979 relied on a motley mixture of two dozen autonomous intelligence and security agencies to hunt down their political opponents at home and conduct espionage abroad.

The Ministry of Intelligence and Security soon became a mammoth organizationwith a huge budget and thousands of full-time staff and tens of thousands of paid informers and agents.

In his first years in VEVAK, Iravani was a member of “special hit squads”.These teams were made up of professional assassins, highly proficient in the use of weapons and martial arts, who were assigned to capture or kill intended targets of VEVAK. Often, the targets were political activists,members of opposition groups, and dissidents.

Iravani soon distinguished himself among the VEVAK hitmen as a sanguinary killer and effective interrogator. Few political prisoners could withstand the particularly brutal torture methods that Iravani used.

Iravani was actively involved in the 1988 massacre of thousands of political prisoners. In July 1988, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa,ordering the execution of all political prisoners who would not “repent” and be willing “to die for Islam”. The text of the chilling fatwa was revealed years later in the Memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, Khomeini’s anointed successor at the time of the massacre, who later fell from grace. (Alan note: for showing disgust with this genocidal order).

No one knows exactly how many prisoners were sent to firing squads in the summer and autumn of 1988, but the killings left a deep scar on the national psyche of Iranians. In the words of Professor Maurice Copithorne, the last United Nations human rights rapporteur for Iran, the massacre constituted “one of the darkest chapters in the history of the Islamic Republic”.

VEVAK’s murder machine

By 1990, Iravani had risen high enough in the VEVAK hierarchy to become a director. He headed the General Directorate for Europe in the Ministry of Intelligence and Security for some time, before taking over as the chief of the General Directorate of Special Operations (GDSO).

At the time of Iravani’s promotion to the GDSO in the fall of 1992, GDSO was VEVAK’s most prestigious directorate.

It had an unlimited budget and was given priority over all other departments and directorates for personnel and facilities. Its director was in constant contact with the Minister of Intelligence and his deputy.

The President himself, (at that time) Hashemi Rafsanjani,was regularly personally informed of GDSO’s activities.

By that time, Ali Fallahian, a village mullah from the southwestern provinceof Khuzistan before the 1979 revolution, had become VEVAK chief.

Some VEVAK officials killed out of necessity, knowing that the clerical regime would not survive without an iron grip on society.

Fallahian was different. He enjoyed killing and took immense joy at torturing others. An indescribably brutal man even by the standards of VEVAK, Fallahian tortured and killed thousands of political activists, intellectuals, and even ordinary citizens during his fourteen years as the chief or deputy chief of VEVAK.

His motivations for these killings were often as much political as economic or even personal. He ordered the murder of businessmen who refused to bribe him.

A crude womanizer, he murdered some of the women with whom he had an affair to leave no witness behind.

One of these victims was Fatemeh Qaem-Maqami, an air hostess in Aseman Airways.

Fallahian met her on a flight to Mashad and forced the married woman to have an affair with him. According to the confessions of a former VEVAK official that was published in Iran, a few months later, Fallahian decided that Qaem-Maqami knew too much.

He ordered his deputy, Saeed Emami, to “liquidate” her. Emami arranged a meeting with the hapless woman and sent a VEVAK assassin, Saeed Haqqani, to kill her by shooting three bullets into her head and chest.

On the surface, Saeed Emami and Ali Fallahian were a world apart. While Fallahian was a rugged, rustic mullah with a diabolical taste forinflicting pain and suffering on others and an uncontrolled libido that claimed the lives of many women, Emami was an urbane, soft-spoken man who had spent much time abroad and, unlike his master, was well-versed in diplomatic niceties.

With their protégé, Iravani, this odd duo formed a dreaded triumvirate that ran VEVAK for much of the 1990s. Protected by then-President Hashemi Rafsanjani, this murderous clique left behind a long trail of murder, assassination, torture and corruption.

(Alan note: and there are some who call Fafsanjani andhis successor Khatami as "moderates". Compared to what? To dark savagery without any place in our modern world?)

Those years are remembered by Iranians as the time of the worst excesses of the clerical regime. Inside the country, VEVAK agents led directly by Emami and Iravani murdered more than 120 dissidents in what became known as“the serial killings”.

The killings were carried out in a brutal manner –victims were often mutilated - to shock and subdue a restless society that often seemed to be on verge of revolt against the ruling theocracy.

Assassination and Disinformation

But it was in the chain of assassinations abroad that GDSO came into its own. With the considerable resources of the Iranian government in Europe at their disposal, GDSO hitmen struck repeatedly in Geneva, Vienna, Istanbul, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Stockholm, and Nicosia, gunning down Iranian dissidents in cold blood.

A Berlin court ruled in April 1997, after a three-year trial,that the assassinations were carried out on orders issued by a secret committee made up of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, then-President Hashemi Rafsanjani, then-Foreign Minister Ali-Akbar Velayati, and then-VEVAK chief Fallahian.

VEVAK’s brief in the 1990s was to decimate the Iranian opposition in exile, focusing particularly on the MeK and the political coalition to which it belonged, the National Council of Resistance of Iran.

Assassination of opposition figures was part of the strategy, but a larger component of this strategy was a vast disinformation campaign that began after the first GulfWar in 1991.

The plan, approved by the Supreme National Security Council and given to VEVAK to implement, was a sophisticated campaign to recruit former membersof the MeK and accuse the group of a range of abuses and criminal activities. These included human rights violations, complicity withSaddam Hussein’s regime in the suppression of Kurds and Shiites, and concealment of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction in MeK camps.

(Alan's note: Iran knew the weapons of mass destruction were there despite efforts by Democrats and left-wingers to deny their existence).

The clerical leaders’ hope was that by discrediting the principal Iranian opposition group through such a disinformation strategy, they would enhance their regime’s political stability and convince the outside world that there was no alternative to clerical rule in Iran.

The strategists in Tehran thought that once the MeK lost its legitimacy in the eyes of its supporters, it would lose its stature and become more vulnerable to VEVAK attacks.

GDSO was given operational responsibility for the plan.

Working closely with his boss, Saeed Emami, Iravani spent months in Europe in the early1990s to recruit former MeK members for the new plan. By the mid-1990s, VEVAK had used many threats and incentives to recruit a dozen former MeK members and supporters living in Europe.

Hundreds more refused to cooperate withVEVAK.

(Alan note: more recently the VEVAK campaign focused on gaining control of Iranian overseas news media such a multitude of radio and TV stations that sprung up like mushrooms and either co-ercing those in charge by threatening their families still back home or buying them off or a a combination of both.

Payment to these station owners or operators took the form of carpets not cash or when the amounts were too big, including them in real esate deals where they acquired ownership or partnership without contributing any investment.

The recent intent to ban the import of Persian carpets or rugs into the USA may make "off the book" payments more difficult for the Islamic regime.

Reports indicate that almost every mass media operator has been compromised in one way of antoehr or bought off. One Iranian TV station in the USA has not been able to explain an intercepted letter from Supreme Leader Khamenei ordering a payment of about $2,500,000 to that station for "loyal services during the previous year").

The new recruits’ handlers were mainly VEVAK officers working under diplomatic cover in the Iranian embassies in Bonn and the Hague. But Emami and Iravani kept a close tab on everything from Tehran. They would often arrange to meet new recruits in Southeast Asia – Singapore and Kuala Lumpur being VEVAK’s favorite venues – to evade detection by Iranian exiles orWestern security services.

One VEVAK defector, Jamshid Tafreshi, later revealed how Iranian intelligence conducted its recruitment and running of agents in Europe and North America.

VEVAK officers paid for his return trips to Singapore, where he would meet and be indoctrinated by Emami and Iravani, who used pseudonyms to disguise their identities.

According to defectors, VEVAK’s top officials used their trips abroad, particularly to Southeast Asia, to indulge in sexual exploits. Ironically,the same officials often framed political dissidents in Iran for such “crimes” as possession of pornographic materials to put them in jail.

Emami and Iravani would guide the ex-MeK recruits to give interviews and lectures on a range of allegations against the MeK.

Tafreshi was once asked to deliver a speech to a meeting in Cologne and he was given a paper prepared by VEVAK to read out. The paper alleged that Saddam Hussein concealed his secret weapons of mass destruction in MeK facilities in Iraq and accused the MeK of being a stooge of his regime.

Once Tafreshi delivered the speech prepared for him by VEVAK, Iranian intelligence instructed the state-run media to give wide coverage to the report, which then filtered back through to the West.

Iravani’s top recruit in those years was Karim Haqi, a former MeK member who had been brought to Europe by the group after he decided to leave the MeK. Haqi became a key agent of VEVAK in Europe and his handler reported directlyt o Iravani.

Extreme measures

By 1994, the Supreme National Security Council was putting pressure on VEVAK to step up its anti-MeK activities. Maryam Rajavi, a prominent exile, had been leading a successful political campaign against Tehran after her nomination as provisional president by the Paris-based National Council of Resistance of Iran.

To tarnish Rajavi’s image and remove her threat, DGSO resorted to some extreme measures. On the military side, VEVAK and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps worked jointly on a “super mortar” project that could lob 400 pounds of high explosives at a target several miles away. Aftersuccessful tests, a 320mm super mortar and its missile were camouflaged as food cargo and placed on board an Iranian cargo ship bound for Hamburg.

A DGSO crack assassination team had been trained to receive the cargo in Hamburg, transfer it to France, and use the mortar to devastate Maryam Rajavi’s villa north of Paris.

The elaborate plan hit a snag when Belgian police uncovered the super mortar and the explosives during an inspection as the ship anchored in the port of Antwerp on its way to Hamburg. The blow was a serious setback for VEVAK.

(Alan note: while the MEK is still listed as a tgerrorist organization by the USA administration, France recently removed them from that category and returned all the MEK funds which France had confiscated as part of the naming of the MEK as a terrorist group).

In May 1995, Iravani made a hasty trip to Bonn to talk to German officials after VEVAK learnt that Maryam Rajavi was to speak at a public rally of Iranian exiles in Dortmund, scheduled for June 16.

Under Fallahian’s instruction, Iravani’s real mission was to organize an attempt on Rajavi’s life during her visit to Germany.

He used VEVAK’s European headquarters on the third floor of the Iranian embassy in Bonn tocoordinate the attack. Unknown to him, German counter-intelligence had a mole in the embassy and discovered the plot to assassinate Maryam Rajavi.She was barred from attending the rally and Bonn quietly expelled two VEVAK officers working under diplomatic cover. The story was leaked to the New York Times.

French deal frees assassins

In December 1993, Iravani was part of a high-level delegation that made an unscheduled visit to Paris. Mohammad Hejazi, a cleric who runs Khamenei’s Special Office for Security, and Alireza Moayyeri, a former Revolutionary Guards commander who was later appointed as ambassador to France and then became Rafsanjani’s political advisor, were other members of the delegation.

They conducted urgent negotiations with French officials over the fate oft wo VEVAK officers who had been arrested in France. The clerical regime’sleaders had instructed the delegation to have the two men returned to Iran at whatever cost.

Both men were members of the DGSO team that assassinated NCRI official Kazem Rajavi in Geneva in 1990. The French government ignored urgent extradition requests from the Swiss government and returned the two men to Iran, after striking a deal with Tehran’s envoys.

Had the two men been handed over to Bern and put on trial, the Iranian regime would have suffered a blow no less than the one it received in the Berlin trial of assassins of four Iranian Kurds.

Once the crisis over VEVAK’s arrested officers was over, Iravani used his visit to Paris to meet secretly with representatives of the Irish Republican Army. He offered to provide them with advanced communications equipment, Semtex plastic explosives, eight Stinger missiles, 400 handguns, 100 Uzi submachine guns, a large quantity of ammunition, and a large sum of money if they would assassinate three Iranian opposition figures in Europe.

The two sides did not reach an agreement and the deal fell through.

VEVAK’s Special Ops inside Iran

Throughout those years, DGSO’s domestic branch was as active as the directorate’s external arm. In June 1994, Tehran blamed the MeK for a bomb blast in the shrine of Imam Reza that killed and wounded several pilgrims.

Despite strong denials by the MeK, the Iranian regime made extensive efforts to have the MeK condemned by other governments for the bomb attack.

Yearslater, former VEVAK officials revealed that the bombing had been stage-managed by DGSO as part of the campaign to push Western governments to take action against the MeK.

Another spectacular operation by DGSO in Iran was the murder of two Anglican bishops and a priest. An elaborate plan was used to pretend that theMeK had murdered the church leaders.

VEVAK forced three girls, all MeKsupporters who had been in prison for some time, to confess before television cameras that they carried out the murders.

But independent investigations,including one by the UN rapporteur on religious freedom, found the charges to be unsubstantiated.

Years later, former VEVAK officials again unveiled the killings as the gruesome work of VEVAK carried out by DGSO under the direction of Emami and Iravani.

Iravani’s work as director of DGSO was not limited to anti-MeK disinformation or assassinations, although this took much of his time. His DGSO played a central role in the grisly murder of dozens of dissidents in Iran during those years.

VEVAK defector Jamshid Tafreshi has described how Iravani and his men murdered Hamid Hajizadeh, a poet and teacher, at his home in the southern city of Kerman.

Hajizadeh was stabbed 38 times.

The VEVAK team also stabbed his 10-year-old son to death before they left.The crime was so horrendous that the local police inspector, who arrived at the scene of the crime after VEVAK assassins had left, burst into tears...
************************************************

Sorry, I don't know what VEVAK uses for a motto...something snappy from the Qur'an I'd bet.

wardogs
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
You mean it was a SECRET?? It was on their stationary and seal, like all other agencies do.
wardogs

Nobody really gave a crap. Little was know about Mossad at the time.
As more and more become available about them, more people found out about their inside joke.

BTW WD, with all your handy dandy spur of of the moment archives on Israeli innocents, not a word on the Liberty?
Love the way you skipped over that one. I know you simply misplace the file on that.
Or maybe you agree with Sarah that Israel was justified in killing all those US sailors?
 

denfoote

Inactive
The Word of the LORD!!!

Enough to open a can of whoop a$$ on the rest of the Arab world if necessary.

What I still don't understand is that the Arab population continues to poke at Israel like they can actually win against them not realizing the Jewish nation could flick them like a flea and they would go poof in a heart beat nuclear nanosecond.

It's like if I had a rubber band gun and was sitting here shooting one of you over and over, knowing full well that you had a bazooka in your hand and could use it at any time to take me out.

These people have serious mental issues in my opinion.

Oh YEAH, that too, BIG TIME!!!

Read Ezekiel 38 and 39 VERY CAREFULLY and think Hiroshima and Nagasaki!!!

Ezekiel 38 (King James Version)

Ezekiel 38:1-6

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

This is pretty much all of the Middle East and the former Soviet Union!!!


Ezekiel 38 (King James Version)

Ezekiel 38:18-23

18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


Read what is done with the bodies in the aftermath!!!

Ezekiel 39 (King James Version)

Ezekiel 39:6-16

6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

CAN YOU SAY "RADIOACTIVE BODIES"???


Syria also gets smacked!!! :smkd:

Isaiah 17 (King James Version)

Isaiah 17:1,2

1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.


Jeremiah 49 (King James Version)

Jeremiah 49:23-27

23 Concerning Damascus. Hamath is confounded, and Arpad: for they have heard evil tidings: they are fainthearted; there is sorrow on the sea; it cannot be quiet.

24 Damascus is waxed feeble, and turneth herself to flee, and fear hath seized on her: anguish and sorrows have taken her, as a woman in travail.

25 How is the city of praise not left, the city of my joy!

26 Therefore her young men shall fall in her streets, and all the men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD of hosts.

27 And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus, and it shall consume the palaces of Benhadad.


Amos 1 (King James Version)

Amos 1:3-5

3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have threshed Gilead with threshing instruments of iron:

4 But I will send a fire into the house of Hazael, which shall devour the palaces of Benhadad.

5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.


Your precious Gaza, home of the murderous Animalstinians gets it but good!!!


Amos 1 (King James Version)

Amos 1:6-8

6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom:

7 But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which shall devour the palaces thereof:

8 And I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod, and him that holdeth the sceptre from Ashkelon, and I will turn mine hand against Ekron: and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord GOD.

Israel will live despite the prognostications of the anti Semites!!!

Rage on Israel haters!!!

God is coming for you and HE'S PISSED OFF!!!
 

wehrwulf

Contributing Member
I hear the IDF is always looking for volunteers.

Run, run to your nearest travel agent so as to prevent the demise of of the USA!

Rahm Ehmanuel can give you the details as he did his time for the country he pledges his allegenice to.

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none." ~ Thomas Jefferson
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
So I say, Let Him, you yourself say "God neither wants or needs our help".
I say lets give God want he wants.
So there.....

Eventually, we will...




Zech 14:2 - " For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. "

and then this will happen...

Zech 12:2 - " And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. "

So... Just remember what you wished for.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Run that by me again!
Are you serious? So you are really justifying an Israeli attack on a US Naval Ship?
I think you should go research this more before you say another word.
SarahLynn you really showed where you loyalties are with this statement.
Is that all you have, the tired old re-tread of the Liberty? Please, let's get into the same century here.
Unfreaking believable.

I think you need to rethink just WHO is unfreaking believable.
As I said, you justify ANY and ALL hatred against Israel-I've seen the pro-Hamas souces you cite. You posted this silly article griping about Israel-a proven friend and ally- receiving 2 billion dollars in assistance from the USA but you had no comment about the USA giving DOUBLE that amount to Pakistan-a proven US hater and filled with Islamic radicals who have brought the world to the brink of nuclear war several times now.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
Nobody really gave a crap. Little was know about Mossad at the time.
As more and more become available about them, more people found out about their inside joke.

BTW WD, with all your handy dandy spur of of the moment archives on Israeli innocents, not a word on the Liberty?
Love the way you skipped over that one. I know you simply misplace the file on that.
Or maybe you agree with Sarah that Israel was justified in killing all those US sailors?

I've posted on the Liberty many times in the past. Whenever you are shown to be wrong on whatever particular Anti Israel screed you are fomenting at the moment, you bring up a tragedy from 40 years ago. This thread had nothing to do with the Liberty until you, when shown to be the ill-informed bigot that you are, brought it (predictably) up.

The truth is, no one knows why the attack on the Liberty occurred. There are many theories as to why Israel attacked a US intelligence vessel, just as there are many theories about why she was rushed into position in a war zone to begin with.

What is known is what happened. What ISN'T known is why.

There was a disparity between the official history of this event and the accounts of the surviving crewmen of the Liberty. The disparity forces a more comprehensive explanation of the events. Investigation of the deliberateness of the attack and the response of the United States government, as well as the cultural and political context of the middle to late 1960s, is revealing. This factual and contextual evidence demonstrates that the attack was in fact intentional and subsequently covered-up by the United States government. Why was it covered up? Was there more to the reason that she was where she was and her mission? The standard screed from you and others like you, that we were protecting Israel, just doesn't stand up...there is no logic to it.

Just as Israel's insistence that it was "accidental" doesn't stand up either.

We know the details of what happened. The best source I have found is from a book written by a surviving officer of the USS Liberty, James M. Ennes, which depicts the attack and surrounding events from the perspective of the Liberty crew. In addition, another excellent source is the work of John Bourne who has also published scholarship on the Liberty incident. His work, which originated as a PhD dissertation at New York University, entitled, The USS Liberty: Dissenting History vs. Official History, is not a primary account of the attack, and thus presents the incident from a more objective point of view.

I don't rely on the speculation of those with an agenda, either pro or con like Daniel Pipes or the Israeli or US governments.

The Liberty incident needs to be understood from a period prior to the intense Six Days War. The USS Liberty chronicle begins with her orders to proceed at best speed to the eastern Mediterranean, approximately thirteen miles from the Egyptian border off the Gaza Strip. The Liberty's new assignment, and the imminent danger of this latest station, did not surprise many members of the Liberty's crew. Liberty survivor Jim Ennes explained the apprehension of the crew: border clashes were routine; both sides were becoming increasingly belligerent as chances for peaceful settlement faded.

Because the Liberty's only means of protection from an attack were four .50 caliber machine guns, its position in international waters and its affiliation with the US Navy (in other words, the raised flag), the crewmember's apprehension was understandable. The recognizable surveillance mode of the ship may also be pointed to as a safeguard for the vessel, or just the opposite, making it a target. the Liberty contained a lots of electronic equipment most of which was in plain view. However a surveillance ship might not be considered benign when located in the vicinity of a war zone. Survivor Richard S. Sturman, who had been a Petty Officer on the Liberty, explained that the Liberty's positions as an intelligence gathering vessel goes without saying. It is clear that the Liberty was a spy ship ideally stationed to document communications of both Israeli and Egyptian forces.

Was that a factor? My opinion is that it must have been. Israel had no other reason for an unprovoked attack on a US vessel.

I've heard all kinds of theories. Though the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was intentional, little evidence supports the idea that the attack was planned in advance with any kind of executive organization. Had the attack been planned, it seems unlikely that the Israeli government would have positively identified the vessel as the USS Liberty just a few hours before the assault began. Yet such identification was made on the day of the attack by 800 hours Liberty time. Furthermore, the Israeli government would likely come up with a better scapegoat for the attack had they had the time to construct a plausible defense.

Some believe it resulted from information the Liberty had collected regarding who had begun the war. (A theory that soon was put aside when information on Egypt's actions in Suez came to light). Other observers, such as University of Southern California Political Science Professor Richard Dekmejian, believe the collapse of the Arabs was so rapid, that the Israelis decided midway into the battle to go all the way. And the Americans didn't want them to and therefore it made sense for them to blind the USS Liberty. Still others believe that the Liberty was intentionally attacked to cover up a massacre of Egyptian prisoners of war. (Also later proven untrue as those prisoners were later released). It seems there are several reasons why the Israeli government might have been uncomfortable with the existence or location of the USS Liberty. The political climate of the time was one of confusion, as is generally the case in the height of war.

Conversely, there is much to wonder about with the actions of our own government. Why did we work so hard to cover up not just Israel's actions, but the purpose of Liberty's mission? Why was the rescue effort so disjointed and amateurish?

The most extraordinary event of the Liberty saga (to me, anyway) is what Jim Ennes calls the "bungled rescue". According to the ship log and a chief petty officer of the USS America, two of the F-4 Phantom jets deployed were of a specific breed known as ready jets. The term "ready" indicates that a jet has been assigned an elite pilot, is prepared for any scenario, and is equipped with many weapons including nuclear weapons. There is no official recognition that the jets launched to protect the Liberty actually carried nuclear weapons or were authorized to use such weapons. As Ennes explained, there is evidence that ready aircraft, which normally carry nuclear weapons, were launched toward Liberty at all, and that the Pentagon reacted with anger bordering on hysteria. When word of the rescue flights reached Washington the jets were ordered to turn around immediately. Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral David L. McDonald patched through to the Six Fleet and roared, "You get those ****ing airplanes back on deck, and you get them back now." The jets pilots did as they were told.

Over an hour later, a second rescue effort was organized. Of the over 150 planes aboard carriers Saratoga and America, none were prepared and available for the undertaking of aiding the Liberty. Thus the Liberty continued the impossible task of self-defense while the men of the Sixth Fleet overtook the extensive endeavor of replacing bomb racks, gun pods and air-to-air missiles. Over an hour later, four A-4 Skyhawks were launched from USS America. Four of the same, along with four F-4B Phantoms were launched from the USS Saratoga. At 1614 hours, the American embassy in Israel released the apology message of the Israeli government. Immediately after receiving the apology, Admiral Martin of the Sixth Fleet recalled all twelve of the rescue planes! Why?

While we know the facts of the event itself, what we don't know and maybe never will is what was behind the scenes...on BOTH sides.

I don't excuse Israel's actions, nor do I hold the US completely blameless. It was wartime, we were in an ...unusual position, and there is too much information being kept hidden by both sides to make an accurate assessment.

Every country that engages in war has shameful incidents on their conscience. We do, Israel does, as do all who have ever waged a war.

When the Israel bashers who so self righteously decry the Liberty incident spend even one iota of their invective on the TRUE enemies of both the US and Israel, maybe their phony outrage can be seen for more than the thinly veiled sham that it is.

wardogs
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Whenever you are shown to be wrong on whatever particular Anti Israel screed you are fomenting at the moment, you bring up a tragedy from 40 years ago. This thread had nothing to do with the Liberty until you, when shown to be the ill-informed bigot that you are, brought it (predictably) up.

While we know the facts of the event itself, what we don't know and maybe never will is what was behind the scenes...on BOTH sides.

I don't excuse Israel's actions, nor do I hold the US completely blameless. It was wartime, we were in an ...unusual position, and there is too much information being kept hidden by both sides to make an accurate assessment.

Every country that engages in war has shameful incidents on their conscience. We do, Israel does, as do all who have ever waged a war.

When the Israel bashers who so self righteously decry the Liberty incident spend even one iota of their invective on the TRUE enemies of both the US and Israel, maybe their phony outrage can be seen for more than the thinly veiled sham that it is.

A reasoned, insightful well-deserved zzzing.
Kudos sir.
 

Ozarkian

Veteran Member
Very intelligent post, guaranteed to win friends and influence people.

Why don't you supply the clue?

I'm not here to win friends or influence people! I' here to counter idiots like you and Desperado with truth instead of the propaganda spew you put out.

Ain't gonna happen with the saved dude!
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
I've posted on the Liberty
wardogs
This is my thread and I can pretty much take it in any direction I want too.
So first, If you are going to continue to post at least post the entire article and give the link:

USS LIBERTY ESSAY
http://www.ussliberty.org/macdonald.htm
And Then Sold for Scrap: The Enigmas of the USS Liberty
by Katie MacDonald
Middlebury College, Middlebury, Vermont.

--------------------

And Then Sold for Scrap: The Enigmas of the USS Liberty

--------------------

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow

T.S. Elliot, The Hollow Men, 1925

--------------------

A Senior Essay by Katie MacDonald

On June 8, 1967 on a hot clear afternoon, Israeli air forces, combined later with naval forces, initiated an attack on an American intelligence vessel -- the USS Liberty.[1] The air-sea attack took 34 lives and injured 171 crewmen.[2] The Israeli government explained the attack was an error due to misidentification of the ship. The American government has officially accepted the Israeli apology, yet continues to conceal many facts of the incident from the American public. There was a disparity between the official history of this event and the accounts of the surviving crewmen of the Liberty. The disparity forces a more comprehensive explanation of the events. Investigation of the deliberateness of the attack and the response of the United States government, as well as the cultural and political context of the middle to late 1960s, is revealing. This factual and contextual evidence demonstrates that the attack was in fact intentional and subsequently covered-up by the United States government.

The Liberty attack is significant in that the potential international ramifications of the event were paramount. The Liberty affair also reveals the evasiveness of the truth in the face of government efforts to erase, and societal resistance to recognize an event. The government cover up was only possible because the public was enthralled in other political and social events of the 1960s -- namely, the Vietnam War and racial tension within the U.S. A favorable opinion of Israel among Americans also affected American perceptions of the Liberty attack. The Liberty incident is best understood as a shadow in American history. Forgotten by contemporaries, it remains a shaded and unhealthy element of both American foreign relations and American governmental order.

Many claim the assault on the Liberty was an unprovoked attack. However, to make such an assertion one must consider the political context of the event. Historically, there has been enthusiasm among Arab countries to drive Israel out of the area. By 1967, Arab states felt they were in a position to overcome the small state of Israel, and induced a conflict by instituting blockades on waters vital to Israel's livelihood.[3] This battle officially began on June 5, 1967 and became widely known as the Six Days War. Once the war actually started, Israel used successful tactics to very quickly destroy the air forces of its adversaries. Israel's remarkable and overwhelming victory shaped the future of the modern Middle East.

The attack on the USS Liberty remains an element of a dissenting history of America. Information about this affair is constantly increasing in availability as more facets of media address the event. Awareness of the Liberty saga grew dramatically with the publication of Assault on the Liberty, a book written by a surviving officer of the USS Liberty, James M. Ennes. Because of the unique nature of this book, this essay will rely heavily on Ennes' work, which depicts the attack and surrounding events from the perspective of the Liberty crew. In addition, this essay draws from the work of John Bourne who has also published scholarship on the Liberty incident. His work, which originated as a PhD dissertation at New York University, entitled, The USS Liberty: Dissenting History vs. Official History, is not a primary account of the attack, and thus presents the incident from a more objective point of view.

The Liberty incident must be understood from a period prior to the intense Six Days War. The USS Liberty chronicle begins with her orders to proceed at "'best speed'" to the eastern Mediterranean, approximately thirteen miles from the Egyptian border known as the Gaza Strip.[4] The Liberty's new assignment, and the imminent danger of this latest station, did not surprise many members of the Liberty's crew. Liberty survivor Jim Ennes explained the apprehension of the crew: "border clashes were routine; both sides were becoming increasingly belligerent as chances for peaceful settlement faded."[5]

The Liberty's only means of protection from an attack were four .50 caliber machine guns, its position in international waters and its affiliation with the US Navy -- in other words, the raised flag.[6] Thus, crewmembers' apprehension was understandable. The recognizable "'surveillance mode'" of the ship may also be pointed to as a safeguard for the vessel -- the Liberty contained a plethora of electronic equipment most of which was in plain view.[7] However a "surveillance" ship might not be considered benign when located in the vicinity of a war zone. Survivor Richard S. Sturman, who had been a Petty Officer on the Liberty, explained, "explained that the Liberty's positions as an "intelligence gathering [vessel] goes without saying."[8] It is clear that the Liberty was a spy ship ideally stationed to document communications of both Israeli and Egyptian forces.[9]

Communication problems with superiors based in the U.S. are undoubtedly the most frustrating element of the Liberty attack. Prevention, it seems, was possible, yet unattained. Commander in Chief of U.S. Naval Forces in Europe informed the Liberty that its "operating area may be modified for safety reasons."[10] In conjunction with this information, the Commander in Chief notified the Liberty that position reports had not been received over the last four days.[11] This was the first message of six that would fall into a swamp of a communication system and never be received."[12]

On the morning of the attack, at 3:12 a.m. the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Washington sent a message to the Liberty ordering it to be "NOT CLOSER THAN 100 NM TO ISRAEL, SYRIA, EGYPT AND 25 NM TO CYPRUS."[13] This message was misdirected to the Philippians, and then correctly routed to the Liberty via the Naval Station in Morocco. But ultimately the message was misdirected and sent back to its origin at the Pentagon, where it was misfiled.[14] The third message, sent at 6:55a.m. Liberty time, was intended to confirm the order for the Liberty to maintain distance from the Gaza strip. In error, the Liberty was not included as one of the recipients of the message.[15] A similar confirmation message was again sent at 8:25 a.m. Liberty time. After some mishandling, the message was broadcast to the Liberty via the naval communication station in Asmara just an hour and 10 minutes before the attack. However the broadcast was unintelligible.[16] The fifth message reiterated that the Liberty was to maintain 100 miles distance from the coast. The message was on its way to delivery when it was, like all the others, misdirected, this time to Greece.[17] Ennes explained, the messages were "following a labyrinthine path through the communication system, which passed it about almost aimlessly, like a leaf afloat in a pond."[18] A sixth message, this time of top-secret status, was also composed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. However there was no relay station to the USS Liberty that was cleared for top-secret status.[19] Thus the relay stations left the message idle, whereupon it became obsolete. In total, six messages were sent to the USS Liberty indicating that greater distance from the coast was imperative to their safety, yet not a single message was received. A few hours later, the Israeli attack on the Liberty began.

These actions and communications leading up to the attack are among the few events that are agreed upon by both the U.S. Government and the Liberty crewmembers. In assessing the other elements of the Liberty saga, one must consider the differing accounts of groups and individuals involved in the attack. Consideration of this disparity is crucial to understanding two significant elements of the Liberty attack. One element is the response of the American government regarding the need for a rescue effort once the attack commenced. But first, one must consider whether or not the attack was deliberate. Liberty survivor Richard S. Sturman explained his perception of the attack. He stated, "They knew we were Americans and they commenced the attack anyway."[20] Indeed, the large flag the Liberty flew, the timing of the attack, and the delay in Israeli assistance after the identity of the ship was obvious, all point to an intentional attack by Israeli forces. In addition, the flawed excuse that the USS Liberty was misidentified as the El Qusier, supports the notion that the attack though deliberate, was not thoroughly planned or premeditated.

The issue of the ship's ensign has been a much-disputed element of the June 8th attack. The official Israeli position is that the Liberty flew no flag during the attack, though some accounts explain that the flag was very small.[21] As with many military events involving significant casualties, a naval investigation was conducted of the June 8, 1967 attack. During this Court of Inquiry, the Liberty's captain, Commander William McGonagle, stated that a flag that clearly identified the ship as American, flew before the torpedo attack. He testified:

I noticed that our Ensign had been shot away during the air attack, and ordered [Signalman Russel David] to hoist a second Ensign from yardarm. During the air attack, our normal Ensign was flying, before the torpedo attack a holiday size ensign was hoisted.[22]

In a report eventually entitled, "Further Information on Yesterday's Incident with the American Ship" the Israeli government stated that the "ship was not flying flag when sighted and moved at high speed west ward toward the enemy coast."[23] The specific and collective memory of the Liberty crewmen would indicate that a flag was indeed flying. It seems unlikely that so many individuals of the Liberty vessel would recount a fabricated story about a holiday-sized flag. The Liberty's logbook also held speed and direction of wind readings for each hour, and these readings indicate that the wind was traveling at least eight knots for the majority of the morning. This, in turn, indicates that the flag was displayed clearly, rather than hanging limply.[24] Furthermore, the Liberty was positively identified as an American ship by the Israeli forces just six hours before the attack.[25] Both the United States and Israeli governments agree upon this fact. It seems odd that a naval ship of comparable proportions in a similar location would not be connected with the previously identified USS Liberty.

Confirming the length of the attack is a useful indicator of whether the assault on the Liberty was accidental. Obviously, a brief assault would support the notion of an accidental attack on the vessel. Since the weather that day was clear, visibility issues are not a factor in the disputes.[26] According to the Liberty crewmen, the Israeli air forces began their attack at 1400 hours (Liberty time). Ennes explained the Liberty was "pounded with a deadly barrage of aircraft cannon and rocket fire."[27] This air attack lasted for twenty-five minutes, after which there was a short lull when crewmen could observe the torpedo boats closing in.[28] According to journalist Delinnda C. Hanley, the twenty-five minute air attack seems "longer than a simple case of friendly fire."[29] All parties agree that the first torpedo struck the Liberty at 1435.[30] This naval strike continued for 40 minutes according to the Liberty men, during which time four additional torpedoes were fired at the Liberty, all of them missing the target.[31] The naval strike finally ceased at 1515.[32] Israeli accounts state the air attack lasted for no more than six minutes, while the torpedo attack did not continue after the first torpedo made impact at 1435.[33] In contrast with the Israeli reports, the accounts of the Liberty crewmen are consistent with respect to the approximate timing of the attack. Historian John Bourne also makes the point that it seems unlikely that the Israeli contention of such a brief attack could account for the fact that, in addition to the 34 deaths, 171 men were wounded and 820 shell and rocket holes crippled the Liberty.[34]

After the air and naval attack, at 1614 hours, Israeli forces reported to a U.S. diplomat stationed in Israeli, Naval Attache Ernest Castle, that they had erroneously attacked an American vessel.[35] Though all versions of the timing of the attack leave room for questions, the general account of Israeli forces leaves a ninety minute gap between when the fighting ended and when the "mistake" was reported by Israeli authorities. There has been no explanation offered by an Israeli party to account for this substantial delay.[36] The accounts of the timing of the attack from Liberty crewmembers leave only an hour gap between the cease of fire and the official Israeli report that an accidental attack had occurred.[37] Though any sizable delay in reporting such a significant error of attack seems dubious, the account of the Liberty men seems slightly more plausible.

In addition to the sheer length of the attack, the fighting continued after the Israeli forces were close enough to see either the Liberty's oversized flag or the markings in English on the side of the boat, including the clearly inscribed title of the vessel. According to Israeli Embassy Spokesman Mark Regev, once the Israeli sailors identified the Liberty as American, they "immediately ceased hostile operations and offered assistance."[38] Liberty crewman claim that armed Israeli helicopters approached the Liberty but did not offer assistance. In addition, according to the Liberty men, most of the life rafts were damaged during the air strike or because of flying fragments after the torpedo hit. However three lifeboats were intact.[39] Crewmember Thomas Smith reported to his life-raft station, inflated the three rafts, dropped them overboard, and awaited further orders. In the distance the torpedo boats observed and then gunned the lifeboats, rendering them useless. Ennes explained the actions of the torpedo boats, "she opened fire on the empty life rafts, deflating two and cutting the line on the third, which floated away like a child's balloon in the surface of the water."[40] Liberty men say the life rafts were gunned at approximately 1515 at which point the torpedo boats left the scene. Israeli forces claim that lifeboats were not intentionally gunned, some accounts even state it was a life raft marked "U.S. Navy" that finally established the identity of the Liberty.[41] According to Israeli Embassy Spokesman Mark Regev, "Israeli sailors would not have deliberately targeted the life boats, that's not the way we do things."[42] Despite Israeli statements, Liberty crew believe they witnessed the targeting of their lifeboats. At a point when torpedo boats were close enough to read the markings on the Liberty vessel, Israeli forces apparently targeted lifeboats instead of offering assistance. It seems it was the intention of the Israeli forces to finish what they started.

Though the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was intentional, little evidence supports the idea that the attack was planned in advance with any kind of executive organization. Had the attack been planned, it seems unlikely that the Israeli government would have positively identified the vessel as the USS Liberty just a few hours before the assault began. Yet such identification was made on the day of the attack by 800 hours Liberty time.[43] Furthermore, the Israeli government would likely come up with a better scapegoat for the attack had they had the time to construct a plausible defense. In a preliminary report about the attack entitled, "Further Information on Yesterday's Incident with the American Ship" Israel explained, "Liberty resembles the Egyptian supply ship, EL QUSEIR."[44] However the two ships are in fact very different and it seems almost impossible that trained professionals of the Israeli Navy could have made such rudimentary errors. In a document entitled "Opinion of Counsel to the Court of Inquiry," The Counsel to the Court of Inquiry responded to this preliminary Israeli report on the incident. The Counsel's response reads:

EL QUSEIR is less than half the size and lacks the elaborate antenna array and distinctive hull markings of Liberty. The location of superstructure island, a primary recognition feature of merchant type ships, is widely different. By this criteria as a justification for the attack, any ship resembling EL QUSEIR was in jeopardy.[45]

The actions of the Israeli government in the aftermath of the attack are further evidence of an intentional attack. Israel held only a limited investigation of the events of June 8, 1967. The Israeli court of inquiry exonerated the participants of the attack as well as the Israeli government itself. Historian James Bamford explained that none of the Israeli servicemen who participated in the attack were ever "court-martialed, reduced in rank, or even reprimanded."[46] Even more telling is the fact that the boat which fired the torpedo that devastated the Liberty, Motor Torpedo Boat 203, has actually been honored.[47] Bamford explained the wheel and bell of the ship have been exhibited "prominently" at the Israeli naval museum, "among the maritime artifacts of which the Israeli navy was most proud."[48] The contrast with the fate of the Liberty -- which was sold for scrap without benefit of any governmental honoring of artifacts -- is striking.[49]

The flying flag, the duration of the attack, the delayed assistance of Israeli forces, machine gunning the life rafts, and the offered excuse that the Liberty was misidentified as the El Quseir all support the idea of an attack that was not planned in advance, but was nevertheless intentional. The purpose behind the Israeli attack might never be known. Some believe it resulted from information the Liberty had collected regarding who had begun the war.[50] Other observers, such as University of Southern California Political Science Professor Richard Dekmejian, believe, "the collapse of the Arabs was so rapid, that the Israelis decided midway into the battle to go all the way. And the Americans didn't want them to and therefore it made sense for them to blind the USS Liberty."[51] Still others believe that the Liberty was intentionally attacked to "cover up a massacre of Egyptian prisoners of war."[52] It seems there are several reasons why the Israeli government might have been uncomfortable with the existence or location of the USS Liberty. The political climate of the time was one of confusion, as is generally the case in the height of war. The Israeli government may have winked to junior Israeli officers that attacking the Liberty would not have been frowned upon. It may be that those involved believed that, if the Liberty sank, the attackers would never be identified and Egypt could even be blamed. Or perhaps military officers inferred from the uneasiness of government officials that such an attack would be beneficial to the Israeli cause. Whichever the case may be, the fact that the Israeli servicemen involved in the attack were honored rather than reprimanded supports the notion of under-the-table approval of the Liberty attack.

The next extraordinary event of the Liberty saga is what Jim Ennes calls the "bungled rescue."[53] According to the Liberty men, the first response to the crew's radio calls for help came at 1505 hours, an hour and five minutes after the attack began.[54] The message fom the commander of the Sixth Fleet read: "YOUR FLASH TRAFFIC RECEIVED. SENDING AIRCRAFT TO COVER YOU. SURFACE UNITS ON THE WAY. KEEP SITREPS COMING."[55] The first four rescue flights came from the USS America. According to the ship log and a chief petty officer of the USS America, two of the F-4 Phantom jets deployed were of a specific breed known as "ready" jets. The term "ready" indicates that a jet has been assigned an elite pilot, is prepared for any scenario, and is equipped with many weapons including nuclear weapons.[56] There is no official recognition that the jets launched to protect the Liberty actually carried nuclear weapons or were authorized to use such weapons.[57] As Ennes explained, there is evidence that "ready aircraft, which normally carry nuclear weapons, were launched toward Liberty, and that the Pentagon reacted with anger bordering on hysteria."[58] When word of the rescue flights reached Washington the jets were ordered to turn around immediately. Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral David L. McDonald patched through to the Six Fleet and roared, "You get those ****ing airplanes back on deck, and you get them back now."[59] The jets pilots did as they were told.

Over an hour later, a second rescue effort was organized. Of the over 150 planes aboard carriers Saratoga and America, none were prepared and available for the undertaking of aiding the Liberty. Thus the Liberty continued the impossible task of self-defense while the men of the Sixth Fleet overtook the extensive endeavor of replacing bomb racks, gun pods and air-to-air missiles.[60] Over an hour later, four A-4 Skyhawks were launched from USS America. Four of the same, along with four F-4B Phantoms were launched from the USS Saratoga.[61] At 1614 hours, the American embassy in Israel released the apology message of the Israeli government.[62] Immediately after receiving the apology, Admiral Martin of the Sixth Fleet recalled all twelve of the rescue planes.[63]

In summary, the first rescue flight was recalled, possibly after the Joint Chiefs of Staff learned of the nuclear weapons aboard the jets. The second and later flights were recalled after the White House and the Commander of the Sixth Fleet heard the report that the Israeli attack had occurred in error. The bungled rescue is shocking when one considers that the Sixth Fleet was only 400 miles away from the Liberty vessel, and many of the jets deployed could travel up to 900 miles an hour.[64] As Ennes notes, there is no explanation for "the complete failure of the United States Navy to send help to an American ship within easy range."[65]

By 1530 hours it appeared to the Liberty men that the attack was over. The wounded were collected and brought to the main battle dressing station, and the rest of the crew attempted to repair the damage created from torpedo and rocket fire. With the Liberty listing at a dangerous degree, men used plywood and mattresses to keep flooding to a minimum in the chamber surrounding the forty by thirty foot torpedo hole.[66]

At 1725 hours, the now obsolete message for the Liberty to maintain distance from the Gaza coast was sent from the Naval Communications Station in Asmara.[67] Over six hours late, the message could be neither received nor decoded, as equipment and crew were not functional.[68] Still unaware of their unnecessary vulnerability, the fragile vessel forged ahead to a meeting point with American forces.

On the morning of June 9, a helicopter from the USS America began transferring the wounded to a destroyer. By June 13 the USS America had arrived in Malta to transfer the seriously injured to the hospital. The Liberty vessel would arrive the following day for repairs.[69] In July, the Liberty returned home to Norfolk where she was denied funds to restore her intelligence capabilities and subsequently decommissioned.[70] Historian James Bamford explained that by 1973 the vessel was sold and "welders' torches at last did what the Israeli attack hadn't."[71] The Liberty was broken down and then sold for scrap.

The cover up effort regarding the Liberty affair began almost immediately. The Liberty Assault was a public relations disaster for a number of reasons. The most basic of these problems was explaining why Israel, an ally, would attack an American ship. Perhaps even more disturbing was the U.S. Government's visible abandonment of an American ship under attack. Even seemingly simple questions, such as the Liberty's mission, the U.S. Government found it difficult to address. The Liberty was a spy ship, on a somewhat dubious assignment of collecting information about the Israeli and Egyptian involvement in the Six Day War.[72] The first report on the attack available to the press falsely explained the ship's mission in a paragraph that preceded, and was nearly twice the size of, the paragraph actually identifying Israel as the nation responsible for the attacks. The Liberty was described as a "technical research ship" on an assignment to relay "information concerning the evacuation of American dependents and other American citizens from the countries of the Middle East."[73] Lying about the Liberty's assignment was the first of many measures taken by the U.S. Government to minimize the attention given to this significant event in history.

The U.S. Government's acceptance of the Israeli explanation that the incident was a "tragic accident" was the next indicator that the American government wished to make the Liberty incident a non-issue. The first report on the Liberty released to the press on the day of the assault described the attack as an accident.[74] Historian John Bourne noted that by June 9, one day after the attack, President Johnson instructed members of the Department of State to convince congressmen that the attack was in fact accidental.[75] This is significant because an investigation of the attack had not yet occurred, and a formal investigation would not begin until June 14 when the Court of Inquiry under Vice Admiral John S. McCain began proceedings.[76]

Twenty-nine members of the press were aboard the USS America on another assignment before the attack of the Liberty ensued. After some open statements from Liberty crewmen to the press, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara put a media lid on the Liberty incident until the official Court of Inquiry report was released.[77] Stories filed by these reporters were steered not to their respective newsrooms, but rather to the Pentagon. One reporter even attempted to conceal his story as a personal letter, but the designed mail system delivered the correspondence to the Pentagon.[78]

According to Ennes, sailors were constantly told to give no comments to the press. Rear Admiral Isaac C. Kidd, who had come aboard the Liberty on June 11, instructed the crew, directly and through other officers, to "'Refer all questions to the commanding officers or executive officer or to Admiral Kidd. Answer no questions. If somehow you are backed into a corner, then you may say that it was an accident and that Israel has apologized. You may say nothing else.'"[79]

The themes of shallow investigations and silencing of the crew continued with the Court of Inquiry proceedings. This naval investigation formally began on June 14.[80] The court findings relied heavily upon the testimony of the captain of the Liberty Commander McGonagle, whose account at various points oddly contradicted the recollections of the rest of the Liberty crew. McGonagle testified, "It is estimated that the total air attack was completed in approximately five to six minutes."[81] This is a clear contradiction with the accounts of other crewmembers. McGonagle's testimony was dotted with statements that according to the rest of the Liberty crew are entirely inaccurate. McGonagle claimed there was no order given to abandon ship; he also asserted that immediately after the torpedo struck, the attacking boats offered assistance.[82] It is difficult to understand the disparity between McGonagle's testimony and the accounts of the rest of the Liberty crew. Ennes offered an explanation, "He testified under tremendous strain, he was ill, grief-stricken and apparently worried that he might be charged with some as-yet-unidentified offense."[83] Despite these circumstances the court aligned itself with McGonagle's testimony. As Bourne explained, "The Naval Court was a rigged hearing, allowing no testimony which did not suit the Court's purposes."[84]

The Court of Inquiry completed its investigation on June 15 after interviewing just twelve additional officers and crewmen of the Liberty. The consensus among those interviewed was that the Court avoided questions that might lead to evidence of a deliberate attack or that would contradict McGonagle's testimony.[85] Instead, questions were asked regarding the performance of both captain and his crew with respect to drills and the readiness of the ship.[86] Survivor Richard Sturman commented on the failure of the Naval Court: "They [navel investigators] did not live up to their own mandates by established by the U.S. government." He continued, "They did not include a lot of pertinent information. That in itself was a white wash." [87]

In addition to biased investigations and media lids, the Liberty vessel itself was given a new face. In Malta, the ship was patched up, the boat was reconstructed where the torpedo had hit, patches covered all marks of machine gun and rocket fire, the exterior was resurfaced, and the ship's goods and supplies were sold.[88] One surviving Liberty officer, Lieutenant Lloyd Painter explained, "They sent us home like nothing had happened."[89]

Once home, Liberty crewmembers found the concealment and mistreatment continued. The Liberty crew was broken up, given new assignments or decommissioned. Combat pay was in some cases denied and close supervision was employed to uphold the media lid.[90] Some members of the Sixth Fleet were faced with a similar fate as that crew was divided and given new posts.[91] Just over a year after the attack Captain William McGonagle was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. This was an apparent victory in so much as the Liberty attack and the fine efforts of her crew were finally being acknowledged. However, the context of the award ceremony would indicate otherwise. Ennes explained that the award ceremony was scheduled on short notice. The award, customarily presented by the president, was given by the Secretary of the Navy. The location was at the Washington Navy Yard, rather than the White House.[92] The attempts of the American government to conceal all matters concerning the Liberty affair from the public, in hindsight, are overt.

The idea of an intentional attack is further supported by the process of monetary payments awarded to Liberty survivors and the U.S. government for damages incurred to person and property. Death claims were paid in full in June of 1968. Damages averaged $100,000 per death and reached a total of $3,323,500. The award of this sum was relatively swift with each claim met with little contention.[93] Receiving claims of damages deserved because of injury was a more laborious process. Petty Officer Sturman explained, "they nickel-ed and dime-ed our government to pieces." Sturman asserts that damages were awarded only after Congress increased the monetary support for Israel. He continued, "here is the money now you can pay us back."[94] The sums claimed for personal injury were reviewed by many lawyers and were only awarded after a pull and tug with Israel involving other issues.[95] The total sum awarded was $3,566, 457, which met 100 % of every claim.[96] Israel continued the theme of languidly negotiating monetary damages when it came to damages incurred on the Liberty vessel itself. However, in an abrupt and noteworthy reversal, damages were awarded swiftly once the low profile of negotiation was threatened. The United States government originally spent $30 million reconfiguring the Liberty to allow it the technical capabilities required for a spy ship.[97] Despite this large sum, the U.S. claim only asked for $7,644,146 for the loss related to the ship.[98] However, at the time Assault on the Liberty was first published, no such damages had been awarded. Ennes explained the Israeli argument, "Payments for the dead were awarded for 'humanitarian' reasons, the Israelis said; damage to the ship was caused by American blunder and would not be paid for."[99] However, the damages were suddenly awarded after Senator Adlai Stevenson III made efforts to conduct an official inquiry in 1980. Israel had agreed to three installments of $2 million each, totaling $6 million.[100] The complete reversal of Israel's position is curious and supports the notion that the Israeli attack was deliberate, and therefore, at least from the perspective of the American government, must remain omitted from American history.

Beyond the treatment of the Liberty crew, the close scrutiny of the press remains the most significant element of the Liberty cover-up. Initially articles on the subject assumed the attack was in fact an accident. Based on the statements of the State Department, there was no reason for members of the press to think otherwise. On June 9, 1967, The New York Times published a front-page article about the attack entitled "Israel, in Error, Attacks U.S. Navy Ship."[101] News writer William Beecher included limited information on the details of the attack parallel to statements released by the U.S. Department, of Defense. The subject line of the article read: "10 Navy Men Die and 100 are Hurt."[102] Beecher does not mention the possibility of an intentional attack. Beecher quotes various senators to support the notion of an accidental attack. Senator Jacob K. Javits' statement indicates the eagerness of many to believe the attack was accidental. Javits was relieved to know that neither Arab nor Soviet forces were responsible for the attack. He stated, "With Israel, we know it was a mistake."[103] This New York Times article is an example of many articles that surfaced in the days immediately following the attack.[104]

The first signal to the American public that the Israeli attack was anything other than accidental came when the press began to interview sailors aboard the USS America. By June 10, The New York Times published another article describing the events of June 8. No longer a page one topic, the article entitled, "Sailors Describe Attack on Vessel," appeared on page twenty-seven of the Sunday edition. Reporter Neil Sheenan maintains that the attack was an accident, but provides a more extensive account including some details that hint at the dubious nature of the attack. For example Sheenan quotes a sailor who explained that the Liberty flew its flag and that torpedo boats circled the ship within 100 yards before the torpedo attack.[105]

Though most articles on the Liberty issue in June 1967 and thereafter maintained that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, in the weeks that followed the attack there were some important articles that explored the idea of a deliberate attack.[106] These later articles began to overtly broach the notion of a purposeful attack. Newsweek published a short article entitled "Sinking the Liberty: Accident or design?" The segment was less than two hundred words and appeared on page twenty-one of the June 19 edition. Without naming names, the editors explain that many officials in Washington are dissatisfied with the explanation that an American ship in international waters was accidentally attacked. The article reads, "One top level theory holds that some in the Israeli armed forces ordered the Liberty sunk because he suspected it had taken down messages showing that Israel started the fighting."[107]

Another important article that questioned the circumstances of the Liberty attack was published in the Shreveport Times on July 18. This editorial contended that the U.S. government might be covering up a deliberate Israeli attack. The article reads, "Almost as shocking as the attack itself has been the manner in which Washington -- especially the Defense Department -- has seemed to try to absolve Israel from any guilt right from the start."[108] The editorial argued further that the Israeli invasion of Syria the day after the Liberty attack may be significant. It reads, "There was no normal way for the U.S. or the U.N. to learn of the military buildup at the Syrian border; except that the Liberty now was only 15 miles offshore from Egypt and Israel and only 90 miles from Tel Aviv."[109]

Despite these articles that dug deeper into the issue of why the attack occurred, within a few weeks even publications that had at one point shouted conspiracy were ready to drop the issue. Newsweek, responsible for the important "Periscope" column entitled "Sinking the Liberty: Accident or Design?," by July 3 went on to publish an article describing the attack as an error.[110] This position was reaffirmed several weeks later with "The U.S.S. Liberty: Tragedy of Errors." Like the article on July 3, this Newsweek article explained that government officials, particularly Defense Secretary McNamara, are "satisfied that the strafing the U.S. ship Liberty by pilots during the Mideast war was unintentional."[111]

A Liberty survivor, Petty Officer Joseph C. Lentini, noted the sparse media coverage of the Liberty attack. He stated, "We were on the front page, then we were on the third page, then we were on the eighth page, and then we were on the back page, and it was almost that fast." Joseph Lentini continued, "In this country, it was a non-issue very quickly."[112] John Bourne commented further on the odd role of the press. He stated, "The Liberty issue is unique in this sense; there is no other political issue where fervent protest is followed by complete and permanent silence."[113] Borne attributes this silence in part to limited information available on the issue due to the efforts of the government to cover-up the incident.

The cultural context of the Liberty attack is crucial to understanding the aftermath of this affair. Public opinion plays an important role in how the media reports an event. In the 1960s several events affected the mindset of the public on the issue of the Liberty. The most vivid of these public opinion phenomena are American attitudes towards Israel, the Vietnam War, and the racial tension of the 1960s.

Americans had very favorable perceptions of Israel in 1967. Israel was the underdog in its conflict with Arab states. Because of Israel's status as a long-time ally with the U.S., and its position as the least powerful nation of the emerging war, Israel's swift victory was awe inspiring to the American public. Journalist Robert Alter wrote in October 1967:

We proverbially admire the underdog, but especially when
he proves in the outcome to be spectacularly successful,
and the perfect match of sure conception and swift
execution in the Israeli campaign against the poised
armies of three surrounding nations captured imaginations
everywhere.[114]

The Six Days War began just four days before the Liberty attack. But because of the overwhelming triumph, the perception of Israelis as victors had already been instilled in the minds of the American public. The notion that Israel would deliberately harm a U.S. ship could not be incorporated into the popular conception of Israeli success. News reporters are influenced to some extent by what the American public wants to read, but as Americans themselves, reporters are also affected by the same cultural circumstances as the rest of the public. John Bourne explained, "Public approval of the Israelis was almost universal, and there was a kind of vicarious satisfaction in their achievements."[115]

The success of Israeli forces, which is described as a "legend" by some, came about through air force tactics.[116] Israeli forces were better prepared for the conflict and had secretly trained for such an event for years.[117] By the end of the first air strike wave against the Arabs, it was clear that this war would be different. Historian Michael Oren explained, "The Israelis were stunned." He continued, "No one had ever imagined that a single squadron could neutralize an entire air base."[118] The one hundred and fifty-two hour conflict continued in much the same vain as that first air strike. Egyptians lost over ten thousand men; Jordan lost over seven hundred soldiers; Syria lost four hundred and fifty men, while Israel lost less than seven hundred citizens.[119] An article in the June 12 edition of Der Spiegel summarized the transformation created by the war. It read, "the Israelis have conquered... With a single exemplary display of tough soldierly skill... they have entered into the hearts of the people in whose name once all Jews were to be exterminated."[120]

The popular applause for Israel and Israelis in 1967 is apparent in the print journalism of the period. A Newsweek article published July 11, 1967, pointed out that Israel often elicited overwhelming support from the U.S. while efforts to help other nations in need of aid have rarely rallied such support. The editors, in an article entitled "Doves, Hawks and Morality," commented on the strong views of Israel's supporters:

They did not wait to reason out exactly why the U.S.
Government should be willing to fight for Israel in these
suddenly developed conditions nor exactly how they were
going to reconcile eagerness for military measures against
the Arabs with the negative view not a few of them have
taken toward military measures against the communists in
Southeast Asia.[121]

Indeed the most ardent and extreme support for Israel came in the 1960s from the American Left and the Jewish-American population. This phenomenon is perhaps best illustrated by the statement by one professor at Brandeis University in 1971: "'In dealing with those who oppose Israel, we are not reasonable and we are not rational. Nor should we be.'"[122]

Commentary, a Jewish-American journal, explains and justifies ardent support for Israel from the perspective of Jewish-Americans. Robert Alter explained, "Without the Land of Israel -- land in the plain meaning of the word -- there is neither hope nor promise for a Jewish future in any place, at any time."[123]

With the overwhelming popularity of Israel in the minds of the American public, and particularly among the vocal Left, the Liberty attack could not be understood in the United States. John Bourne explained, "The contrary view of Israel as a nation which might deliberately harm the United States simply did not fit in this overall picture."[124] Understanding American attitudes towards the Israelis reveals that the ignorance of this issue was not only a result of government manipulation, but also an outcome of the willingness of the American public to overlook the issue.

The popularity of the Israelis was based not only on their success in warfare, but also in the unproductiveness of the U.S. in its warring endeavors. Bourne explained, "The Israelis were the heroes of the hour to an American public weary of endless war in Vietnam and transfixed by the swift and dramatic Israeli victory."[125] The conflict in Vietnam was the longest war in American history. Vietnam was an ambiguous war in that there was neither a concrete reason for the fighting nor was there a tangible beginning to the war. Historians Maurice Isserman and Michael Kazin explained, "The most consistent explanation for why Americans needed to fight in Vietnam was the defense of the 'credibility' of the United States -- in itself a murky ambiguous goal."[126] At the beginning of the war, America entered Vietnam as the heroic veterans of World War II.[127] However as the war dragged on, the opaque goals of American involvement created much dissent among the American public regarding American involvement. In September of 1967 U.S. News and World Report commented, "More and more there is questioning of just what the U.S. is accomplishing in Vietnam, and growing irritation and frustration over the stalemate."[128] Later in this article entitled, "An Uneasy America -- Why?," U.S. News and World Report included the results of a nationwide survey on the state of American politics. American involvement in Vietnam was frequently commented on. One Massachusetts resident stated, "'I thought the war was justified, but now I'm not so sure that what we want for them is what they want for themselves. We can't impose democracy on a country that never had it and doesn't want it.'"[129] The opinions of Americans who justified American involvement in Vietnam were also included. One man from Michigan stated, "It's disgusting -- American fellows dying over there without an all-out effort on our part to win. I favor escalation and more South Vietnamese participation."[130]

Vietnam was a political issue about which nearly every American had an opinion. U.S. News and World Report explained in 1967, "The war in Vietnam is the No. 1 topic on people's minds."[131] Given this American interest, the subject of the War in Vietnam was given more media attention than any other issue during the mid 1960s. More than a political event, Vietnam had dramatic effects on American society, making it one of the most significant cultural events of the 1960s. Historians Isserman and Kazin articulated the influence of the Vietnam War on American civilization. They wrote, "Americans would get used to thinking of each other as divided into polarized enemy camps: pro-war and antiwar, hawks and doves, and on from there to ever more scurrilous epithets."[132]

Around the time of the Liberty attack, 892 Americans died in the Vietnam conflict during the period of May 1967 to June 1967.[133] As the death toll rose in Vietnam, domestic violence became a greater issue. Anti-war protest grew larger and more militant as the War continued. Historian Thomas Powers noted that during this period "people felt that history was accelerating, time was running out, great issues were reaching a point of final decision."[134] The American palate was full. The Liberty attack, responsible for the loss of only 34 lives, could not be conceived of as one of the "great issues" of the time. Though in actuality, if Americans had had the energy to consider the broader ramifications of an unprovoked Israeli attack on America, repercussions for American-Israeli relations might have been paramount.

In 1967 U.S. News and World Report stated, "Growing uneasiness and bafflement are the words that sum up the mood of America."[135] Issues surrounding the war in Vietnam were not the only concerns of Americans during the period of the Liberty attack. Racial tension during this period was pronounced, thus creating an uneasy America. By 1967, the United States was undergoing what some have dubbed "The Civil War of the 1960s."[136] Isserman and Kazin explained that during the 1960s America was divided into competing faction that "differed sharply and, at times, violently about how to build a society of individuals at peace with themselves and with the rest of the world."[137]

Race riots were dotted all over the United States in the mid 1960s. Every major city recognized their position as a tinderbox. In 1967, there were two major race riots that served to further divert the attention of Americans from the seemingly marginal attack on the Liberty. On July 13, 1967, just over a month after the Liberty attack, an immense riot broke out in Newark. This conflict began with the arrest of a young black man for drunken driving.[138] To on-lookers, it seemed the police officer, a white male, used more force than necessary. Anger developed among the crowd. Efforts of the police to end the violence only served to instigate the riot. By the time order was restored 23 had died and 725 were injured.[139]

In Detroit on July 23, not two weeks after the incident in Newark, another massive riot took place. The incident began when police arrested the owners of an illegal African American liquor establishment.[140] Bystanders gathered and began burning neighboring white-owned stores. Eventually the disorder was so widespread that some black owned stores were raided and burned. The two-day riot eventually took the lives of 43 people, injured 1,199, and was responsible for the arrest of 7,200 people.[141] The riots in Newark and Detroit were among 23 other major riots and 30 less severe riots that same summer.[142] According to an NBC Nightly News report made on March 1,1998 "From 1964 through 1968, more than 250 American cities erupted in violence. They were the worst riots in US history, nearly 300 people died, 8,000 were injured, property damage went into the hundreds of millions of dollars."[143] Though the Liberty attack was a significant event, it was an isolated event causing 34 American deaths, a relatively small number in comparison to the deaths from rioting during this period.

Though Vietnam was at the forefront of American thoughts, much attention was also given to this worsening of racial relations within the U.S. borders. The Kerner Commission articulated the tension of 1967. It stated that the United States was fast becoming, "two societies, one black and one white -- separate and unequal."[144] Martin Luther King Jr. noted in 1967 the irony of black men fighting for the civil liberties of unknown men abroad when those same rights are not enjoyed at home.[145]

In the midst of social movements that would redefine America, the Liberty had no following. America was becoming more than ever before, a nation of factions. The foreign relations issues intrinsically connected to an Israeli attack on an American naval ship were lost among a country saturated with anti-war propaganda. The silent majority that may have approved of the war in Vietnam was certainly not about to take up a controversial campaign against Israel. The Liberty was unrelated to the racial tension within the U.S. There is no mention of the racial composition of the Liberty crewmen killed in the attack on June 8, 1967. Race was not an issue in this attack because there was a diverse group of Americans from different racial backgrounds who were lost. If the majority of crewmembers killed were of African American lineage, the U.S. government abandonment would likely have been regarded as another example of blacks denied their rights even in the context of defending their country. As it was, the Liberty men had no constituency, their anguish and loss was unrelated to that of factions within larger America and thus they were forgotten.

The attack on the USS Liberty was unnecessary and preventable. The disorder of the U.S. military communication system is at one level responsible for the attack. The Liberty was stationed in international waters, but very near to a war zone. It was irresponsible of the military to leave the Liberty in such a vulnerable position. But in assigning blame for the Liberty attack, Israeli forces must not be excused. The Liberty, though engaged in clandestine endeavors, was acting in accordance with international law. Israeli forces deliberately attacked the vessel. This was a clearly marked vessel that flew a flag. The attack continued for over an hour. There was a delay in Israeli assistance after the identity of the ship was obvious. The Israeli intent is clear. The ambiguous motivation for an Israeli attack and the unlikelihood of an attack that was planned and approved by every facet of the Israeli government must not discount the reality of the attack. However, the fact that the attack occurred does automatically include the event in American history. After consideration of the cultural context of the Liberty attack, it seems that reality is defined not by what is, but by what is perceived. The Liberty attack was an embarrassment to the American government on a number of levels. It was irresponsible and dubious for the Liberty to be assigned to the Gaza coast. It was embarrassing for America to be attacked by a nation the U.S. worked so hard to support. Most embarrassing were the incompetent efforts to recall the Liberty from the war zone followed by the recalled rescue flights and subsequent abandonment of a wounded American naval vessel. As a result, American perception of the Liberty affair was skewed by the cover-up efforts of the U.S. government. However, American perceptions are not solely dependant on allowances of the government. Americans live in a nation where the public has substantial liberties and capabilities to gain knowledge. The press is a significant tool available to the American community. Like so many authoritative institutions, the U.S. government has, at times, attempted to conceal information from larger America. However, Americans must recognize their unique position to control their own knowledge. In the case of the Liberty, the U.S. government worked to nullify the affair. But the success of this cover up was made possible by three elements of American consciousness. First, Americans were blind in that most could not recognize an event contrary to their beliefs concerning Israel. Second, there was the saturating effect Vietnam had with respect to Americans' appetite for international conflict. The third significant element of American consciousness during the 1960s was the inability of Americans to look beyond their national identity fractured by racial tension to consider an event that is an affront to American foreign policy on the subject of Israel. The Liberty incident is thus a shadow in American history, forgotten because of the unusual accordance of American government and American public to disregard. Its occurrence reveals the subjective nature of American reality and the vulnerability of tension filled America to omit events with significant international ramifications.

American treatment of this incident reveals the towering strength of a nation that can send its men, such as those on the Liberty, in harm's way and then know that it has so many men it can afford to forget these few -- although such a nation is forgetting, to borrow a phrase historian John Lukacs used in 1965, "the transitory malleability of this comfort." The Liberty is a shadow of American history that may become illuminated at any time. American democracy is threatened with every negligent act of its government. The position of the Liberty in American history is perhaps best described by the author J.R.R. Tolkien's statement that "The future is impenetrable, especially to the wise; for what is really important is always hid from contemporaries, and the seeds of what is to be are quietly germinating in some dark corner."


and from:http://www.gtr5.com/

On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic.

For detailed and authoritative accounts of the power and influence of the pro-Israel lobby, please see The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy by Mearsheimer and Walt and The Pro-Israel Lobby by Edward Herman.

The Betrayal of American Veterans
.
Americans who volunteer for military service effectively write a blank check, payable to the United States of America for an amount "up to and including my life." The United States, in turn, promises to spend these checks responsibly. That bargain implicitly includes a promise by the United States to protect them and to seek retribution against anyone who harms them. In the case of USS Liberty, the United States has failed to keep its end of the bargain.
 

Ender

Inactive
I'm not here to win friends or influence people! I' here to counter idiots like you and Desperado with truth instead of the propaganda spew you put out.

Ain't gonna happen with the saved dude!

How Christian of you.

BTW- you haven't heard any propaganda from me.

When the Israel bashers who so self righteously decry the Liberty incident spend even one iota of their invective on the TRUE enemies of both the US and Israel, maybe their phony outrage can be seen for more than the thinly veiled sham that it is.

Do you really mean this WD?

Do you really believe that when Israel acts against the US we should just forget it? Not only that but we should instead turn our outrage against a country which has not attacked anyone in the past 150 years or so?
 

Ozarkian

Veteran Member
Ender, I am surprised at you soemtimes because I have always really respected you and your stance on things. Then you spout crap like here and it's like where is he now. :whistle:

I respect your right to what you believe, respect mine.
 

Ender

Inactive
Ender, I am surprised at you soemtimes because I have always really respected you and your stance on things. Then you spout crap like here and it's like where is he now.

I respect your right to what you believe, respect mine.

Thank you Ozarkian; I appreciate that.

I would really like to see people able to have a civil conversation on the subject of Israel without all the name-calling and bashing.

I understand it is a passionate subject for some, but it is maddening to try and have decent dialog about what is happening in the ME.

I respect Israel's right to exist but I don't view them as innocent victims. I do not see Iran as innocent either- however, I believe that there is a lot of propaganda trying to push the public into a panic so that another first strike will be applauded instead of stopped or condemned.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
I posted the pertinent facts. I didn't even know it had a link, it was from a critique of James Ennese's book, which I have found to be one of the best sources of what actually happened aboard the ship. It was from one of many of my correspondences with folks in Israel that I deal with. (My infamous FILES!!!):shkr:

Even after reading the full text, it doesn't change the facts. Which are:

No one knows for sure why we were in the area to begin with, or the Liberty's true mission.

Why Israel thought it necessary to "blind" our surveillance ship, or if in fact, if that was their intention.

Why our government put a "no talk" order on the crew.

Why they delayed the rescue for hours.

Why Israel, even though they apologized, did not reprimand or sanction those involved. It suggests they had a reason (at least to them) for the incident.

Why we (as was illustrated by the ignominious end that the Liberty suffered)
tried so hard to downplay the incident.

Yes, you can take the thread wherever you want, sort of like taking your ball and going home....

Just spare me the false outrage. you don't fool anyone. The Liberty always makes good theater for a rant against Israel, but the truth is you don't know why it happened any more than I do. Even those on board don't know.

And that's the point.

As for the OP, it started with a false premise and expounded on it as so many of your screeds do.

wardogs
 

Wardogs

Deceased
How Christian of you.

BTW- you haven't heard any propaganda from me.



Do you really mean this WD?

Do you really believe that when Israel acts against the US we should just forget it? Not only that but we should instead turn our outrage against a country which has not attacked anyone in the past 150 years or so?

I never said we should forget it. it should be burned into our memory as another incident in the folly that is the "right to return" and the endless, mindless push to destroy Israel being perptrated by Muslim states using "Palestinians" as their pawns. It has caused nothing but chaos since Israel's birth.

A birth by the way that is no different than the birth of the countries that are the most virulent. All came out of the division of lands won in war and divided up by France, England and Turkey.

Iran hasn't attacked anyone in 150 years? No propaganda there right?

It's true if you ignore over three decades of attacks by proxy on Israel by Hamas and Hezbollah. Or eight years of attacks on US troops in Iraq by Qods forces, the last being just last week.

A car bomb and a rocket strike at the U.S. embassy in Yemen last September as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack. Zawahiri thanked Iran for supplying training, logistics and safe haven for the terrorists.

Or the dozens of attacks on American civilians and servicemen abroad by Iranian funded terrorists including the Khobar Towers, Marine Barracks in Beirut, Amman, Jordan. Damascus, Syria. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks. Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001. Arrested and sent to Gitmo in '06, they now await trial in CIVILIAN COURTS!!!

Or the training and funding of Iraqi insurgents in Iran for the last eight years....on and on.

No, you don't spread propaganda...

wardogs
 

Ender

Inactive
Well WD, one man's propaganda seems to be another man's Food for Thought.

Before going to war with Iran, it might be a good idea to know the history of relations between the two countries. Here's what I know:

1. Before 1953 there was a general feeling of Iranian goodwill towards America, in part because the U.S. paid much higher oil royalties to Saudi Arabia than British Petroleum paid to Iran [Kinzer 2003].

2. In 1953 the Eisenhower administration sent Kermit Roosevelt to Iran with a lot of cash and instructions to overthrow their democratically elected government. The government was overthrown and replaced by the Shah, previously the constitutional monarch [Kinzer 2003].

3. Between 1953 and 1979 the U.S. supported the Shah, who ran a typically repressive dictatorship.

4. In 1979 the Shah was overthrown and a group of students supported by the post-revolutionary Islamic regime captured and held roughly 60 U.S. diplomats hostage for a year and a half [wikipedia].

5. In 1980, Iraq invaded Iran [wikipedia] starting an eight year war that killed hundreds of thousands of Iranians, many with poison gas. The U.S. supported Iraq by
1. supplying satellite imagery of Iran troop concentrations
2. supplying materials for poison gas production
3. sinking Iranian ships [Daniel 2001, page 216]
4. bombarding Iranian coastal facilities [Daniel 2001, page 216]

6. The U.S. also shot down an Iranian civilian Boeing 747 killing 290 people [answers.com]. The U.S. said it was an accident and issued a note of regret.

7. Iran was among the first Muslim nations to denounce the 9/11 attack.

8. Iran cooperated with the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

9. Shortly thereafter, President Bush labeled Iran a member of the 'axis of evil'.

10. For the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Iran offered to help if any American pilots were forced down in Iran territory.

11. The U.S. has accused Iran of developing an atomic bomb, and Iran does have a significant nuclear development program which they claim is for peaceful purposes only. America has threatened to bomb Iranian nuclear sites.

12. Recently, the U.S. administration has accused Iran of supporting the Iraq insurgency, claiming that some attacks are too sophisticated for the Iraqis to pull off. Little evidence has been made public.

13. Recently, the U.S. has arrested several Iranians in Iraq over the objection of the Iraqi national and Kurdish regional government, who had invited those arrested. Some were released and others are still in custody.

14. The U.S. has been accused of supporting Iranian groups in Iraq that call for the overthrow of the Iranian government and launch attacks within Iran. alternet.org
 

Wardogs

Deceased
It's only a False Premise to the Israeli apologists.
Why you believe Israel is above our laws is beyond me.

They are not above our laws. they don't fall into the categories as outlined in those laws. When they do, they are open to waiver just as Pakistan, India and N Korea. Somehow, it's only Israel you and the OP object to. in fact it was the US through Nixon that advised Israel on maintaining "nuclear ambiguity".

'...By 1969, U.S. Defense Secretary Melvin Laird believed that Israel might have a nuclear weapon that year. Later that year, U.S. President Richard Nixon in a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir pressed Israel to "make no visible introduction of nuclear weapons or undertake a nuclear test program", so maintaining a policy of nuclear ambiguity..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

Myself, I have much more of a problem giving aid to N Korea and Pakistan than I do Israel. You don't...I wonder why that is.

Don't fall back on that BS about aid to anybody. You only complain when it's Israel. You don't fool anyone.

I see the same arguments on Stormfront.

wardogs
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
They are not above our laws. they don't fall into the categories as outlined in those laws. When they do, they are open to waiver just as Pakistan, India and N Korea. Somehow, it's only Israel you and the OP object to. in fact it was the US through Nixon that advised Israel on maintaining "nuclear ambiguity".

'...By 1969, U.S. Defense Secretary Melvin Laird believed that Israel might have a nuclear weapon that year. Later that year, U.S. President Richard Nixon in a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir pressed Israel to "make no visible introduction of nuclear weapons or undertake a nuclear test program", so maintaining a policy of nuclear ambiguity..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

Myself, I have much more of a problem giving aid to N Korea and Pakistan than I do Israel. You don't...I wonder why that is.

Don't fall back on that BS about aid to anybody. You only complain when it's Israel. You don't fool anyone.

I see the same arguments on Stormfront.

wardogs

Getting advice from Nixon and Laird, not a bright move to begin with!
I have always said the US should not be giving any foreign aid, check my posts. I don't see the US as the World's Welfare Agency just like I dont see the US as the World's Police. we should take care of our own first and foremost. I complain about Israel since they have been the biggest offender and they tend to bite the hand that feeds them.
Monitoring Stormfront too, you must be a busy boy.
 

Wardogs

Deceased
Wow Ender, sounds like history as reported by the NYT...

As always, we are the bad guys, we are the oppressors of those poor Iranians who never did anything to us.

Iran IS building a bomb. To doubt it is to abandon any type of rational thinking. Not only do we know it, so does every Arab state in the region-thus the scramble to institute their own nuclear programs. They have known of Israel's nuclear capability for decades, or more accurately known she had one, if not the extent. Yet, as I pointed out in a previous post on another thread...

"...It's been an open secret for years that Israel possesses nuclear capability. It's an interesting comment on the genuine - as opposed to rhetorical - threat that Israel is deemed to pose that it's only now, when Iran is on the verge of joining the nuclear club, that other Middle Eastern and Arab countries get concerned about developing their own programs. That says a lot about where real concern lies..."

Yes, we have had "blowback" on many of our foreign policies, not just in Iran. We do what seems to be the best option at the time.

Despite what the rabbi you quoted had to say about Mossadegh, he was not "beloved of the people", nor was he "democratically elected", at least not in the usual sense. He was a pick of the Shah, and the election was closer to a referendum than an election like here. Eisenhower once commented that he "was the stupidest man he had ever known".

It was the height of the Cold War. Iran was in turmoil. Britain and Iran had been in conflict over sharing wealth from Iranian oil, which led to Britain boycotting Iranian oil. Iran's prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh was a nationalist hostile toward the British, barely neutral in the Cold War and very chummy and tolerant of communists. Iran was broke, and Mossadegh had requested financial assistance from the United States, with little success.

The monarchy that the British had returned to Iran had been driven from the country. Mossadegh had allied himself with communists, students and people in the streets. The British Secret Intelligence Service had a plan to overthrow Mossadegh, and they had asked for help from their friends in the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). The Eisenhower administration approved, with Secratary of State Dulles gleeful at the prospect of getting rid of what he called "that madman Mossadegh." In August 1953, the U.S. helped overthrow Mossadegh and return the king to power. We did so by supporting the already burgeoning insurgency. Britain without a doubt fomented much of the troubles and we , since Britain had been kicked out, assisted. Much like Walker says we should do now...

Now Iran's oil facilities would be operated by an international consortium of British, American, French, and Dutch oil companies, with the profits shared between Iran and the consortium. The Russians were disturbed and protested, and soon they would see Iran join one of Dulles' alliances, the Baghdad Pact.

Dulles, meanwhile, was addressing the issue of communist expansion. In January 1954, he alarmed people in the Soviet Union and Western Europe by announcing that the Eisenhower administration was going to rely on a "massive retaliatory power," including its nuclear capability, rather than allow itself to be drawn into limited conflicts similar to the war in Korea. The way to deter aggression, he said, was for "the free community" to be willing to "respond vigorously and at places and with means of its own choosing." Very much like Bush adopted as his response to Muslim radicalism.

A 16-year period under Reza Shah was marked by horrendous human rights violations, especially toward the end when the Mullahs were causing dissent and fomenting revolt for their own purposes. Mullahs have been growing their socio-political power since the compelling growth of the Shia sect of Islam in Iran by the Safavids in 16th century. In the 1960s, Ayatollah Khomeini opposed the Shah’s land reform and right of voting to women; hence, he organized an Islamic movement opposed to Shah’s “un-Islamic reforms.”

Contrary to some priests in Latin America, Mullahs in Iran could never reconcile with collectivism, socialism and materialism of the left, although they happily accepted money and support from the Communists. From the Safavid Dynasty to the Shah (except under 16-year Reza Shah‘s reign), the Iranian clergy or Mullahs have always created a common bond with the monarchy. This alliance was later used by colonial powers to keep the status quo.

Neither Tudeh party, a pro-USSR party, nor Marxist-Leninist OIPFG, could introduce Marx’s view, that "Religion is the opiate of the masses”, into their social analysis; instead, they considered “anti-imperialist” Muslim movements as their strategic allies. It is no wonder then that, after the Iranian revolution, the leftist Tudeh Party and the Majority (non-pro-Soviet)—despite their previous rivalry and deepening friction—came together to unconditionally support “anti-imperialist” Khomeini and his Islamist movement, until these “profane atheists”, like other leftists, succumbed under Khomeini’s Islamic sword in 1982. When their usefulness was done, they were hunted down and tortured and killed. SAVAK had nothing on the Mullahs...

I guarantee you that today, especially among the younger Iranians, (and they, because of war and purges, are the majority...50% of Iranians are under 30, and an even more crucial demographic group are between the ages of 15 and 29 and comprises more than one-third of the nation’s population)... long for the days of the Shah over the harshness of sharia. In fact the main resistance movement outside of Iran centers around the Royalist movement and Empress Farah Pahlavi, widow of the late-Shah and the last vestige of freedom and rule of law to many Iranians.

As to the rest of your post, There is much more than "ample evidence" of Iranian forces in Iraq and training insurgents in Iran. We just shot down an Iranian drone and captured four Quods officers within the past couple weeks.

Now Iranian weapons are showing up in Afghanistan as well...

Iran links update:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003438.html

"Yesterday, Joint Chiefs chairman, Gen. Pete Pace, told us Iranian weapons have been recently found in Afghanistan, sent there to supply the Taliban. That’s the first official admission that the weapons from the Shiite-dominated government are winding up in the hands of Sunni-aligned Taliban insurgents.

It’s also helpful to note this exchange between CNN’s Barbara Starr and Multinational Corps-Iraq commander, Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno on Friday…

Q General Odierno, Barbara Starr from CNN. You spoke about Iran again. Are you able yet to tell us that there is direct evidence that it is the Iranian government or the leadership of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps or Al-Qods that is directly ordering this interference in Iraq? Are you learning anything from the Al-Qods member -- people you still have in custody? Are you able to carry your evidence any further than just they're out there and they’re causing interference?

GEN. ODIERNO: I would just say right now -- I'm only willing to say that it's clear that the Qods Force is involved in what's going on here by supplying training, money and weapons. We're still working other aspects of it, but I'm not willing to comment on anything along those lines.

I would say, though, it is clear that they continue to interfere, the Qods Force continues to attempt to interfere in Iraqi -- in operations inside of Iraq. We continue to intercept weapons. We know there's money that's flowing in from Iran to certain insurgent groups in Iraq, and we will continue to work through this.

And in fact we're working now to determine whether they are in fact not only providing support to Shi'a groups but also Sunni insurgent groups. We don't have any specific proof of that yet, but there's been some indications that that could in fact be the case.

Q Very briefly, why would the Iranians be supporting Sunni groups?

GEN. ODIERNO: I think it's mainly because they want to continue to create chaos in Iraq. They do not want this government potentially to succeed. But additionally, I think they want to try to tie down coalition forces here. And it's clear that they are attempting to affect what's going on inside of Iraq on a daily basis, and we have to be very aware of that, and we will continue to be aware of that and work it.

Makes you think about the timeless idiom: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."


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Wardogs

Deceased
Getting advice from Nixon and Laird, not a bright move to begin with!
I have always said the US should not be giving any foreign aid, check my posts. I don't see the US as the World's Welfare Agency just like I dont see the US as the World's Police. we should take care of our own first and foremost. I complain about Israel since they have been the biggest offender and they tend to bite the hand that feeds them.
Monitoring Stormfront too, you must be a busy boy.

"Taking care of our own" to most thinking folks means making sure that trade and access to natural resources and goods necessary to our nation and industries are freely and readily available. Especially when it was our technology that made them so. If not for American and British oil companies and engineers, the Muslims would still be living in goatskin tents and humping their camels. The same goes for Israel, She took a desert and made it bloom, built cities and developed technologies and a society that are unknown by her neighbors.

I'm all for not giving aid to those who hate us and are bent on our destruction.

We don't live in Jefferson's time. He could not have envisioned a world where the farthest point on the planet was 30 minutes away for a missile or 16 hours for a man traveling. It took months of arduous journey to reach our own West Coast.

For all of Jefferson's warnings of entanglements, he spent a good deal of time "entangled" in foreign courts as an Ambassador and backed sending a fledgling US Navy across the globe to protect trade when it was threatened by Muslim pirates.

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