HEALTH How Much of What Your Doctor Recommends to You Is Based on Big Pharma Payouts? New Research Suggests It Could Be a Lot

Cardinal

Chickministrator
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U.S. physicians received more than $12 billion in payments from the pharmaceutical and medical device industry over a 10-year period, according to a new analysis.

A research letter published on March 28 in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that the industry made over 85 million payments to more than 820,300 (57 percent) of eligible physicians across 39 specialties from 2013 to 2022. Nearly 94 percent of the payments were related to one or more marketed medical products.


Researchers examined data in the Open Payments database to determine what payments were made across different specialties and the medical products associated with the largest total payments. Data only included payments received for consulting, nonconsulting (such as speaker or faculty fees), travel, food, entertainment, education, gifts, grants, charitable contributions, and honoraria.

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The Open Payments database is a federal transparency program that was established in 2013 out of concern that financial relationships between physicians and the industry were unduly influencing healthcare decision-making and costs.

The analysis found that payments varied considerably between specialties and among physicians of the same specialty. For example, the mean amount paid to the top 0.1 percent of physicians ranged from $194,933 for hospitalists to $4.8 million for orthopedic surgeons, while the payments to the median physicians ranged from zero to $2,339.

Orthopedic physicians received the greatest sum of payments, $1.4 billion, followed by neurologists and psychiatrists, $1.3 billion, cardiologists, $1.3 billion, and hematologists/oncologists, $825.8 million. Nearly 55 percent of pediatricians and 63 percent of infectious disease physicians received payments from the industry, while physicians practicing preventative medicine received the least sum of payments.

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“From 2013–2022, pharma paid 12 billion dollars to U.S. physicians. That’s mind-boggling. Insane. That’s how silence is bought, the minds of physicians influenced, and ultimately patient care/prescribing patterns influenced,” Dr. Manni Mohyuddin, an oncologist, hematologist, and assistant professor at the Huntsman Cancer Institute, told The Epoch Times.

Dr. Mohyuddin emphasized that the average payment received was low, but some physicians received a significant amount of money and have influence over writing guidelines, chairing committees, clinical trials, influencing opinions, and more.

Top Drugs and Devices Associated With Payments​

The top three drugs associated with the most payments were Xarelto ($176.3 million), Eliquis ($102.6 million), and Humira ($100.2 million).

Xarelto, jointly developed by Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Pharmaceuticals and Bayer, is used to prevent and treat blood clots. Janssen also created the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine, which caused rare and sometimes fatal blood clotting disorders.

Eliquis is a multibillion-dollar blood thinner manufactured by Bristol-Myers Squibb and Pfizer. The drug in 2023 was 12 percent of Pfizer’s total revenue—second only to its Comirnaty COVID-19 vaccine. Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine has also been linked to blood clotting disorders.

Humira is an immunosuppressive drug manufactured by AbbVie to treat arthritis, plaque psoriasis, ankylosing spondylitis, Crohn’s disease, and ulcerative colitis. Following the top three drugs are Type 2 diabetes medications Invokana, Jardiance, and Farxiga.

According to the analysis, the three medical devices associated with the most payments were daVinci Surgical System, $307.5 million, Mako SmartRobotics, $50.1 million, and CoreValve Evolut, $44.8 million.

‘Highly Targeted to Lucrative Procedures’​

“Our paper is a modest analysis. It does not explain the problem of financial conflicts of interest. But it is a lot of money. And it’s highly targeted to lucrative procedures,” co-author and cardiac electrophysiologist Dr. John Mandrola wrote in a post on Substack.

Dr. Mandrola believes that the strong influence of the industry can be seen in the approval of numerous medical devices by the U.S. Food and Drug Adminsitration despite “dodgy evidence.”

“Cardiology is a technical field. We use devices. Innovation requires some collaboration. Innovation has made cardiology better. But industry influence is way too strong,” he said. Dr. Mandrola believes the payments reported in their paper are not only for physician–industry collaborations, but are for marketing and goodwill, which helps establish practice patterns among physicians.

The industry is profit-driven, and if direct payments to doctors didn’t work, the industry wouldn’t spend billions doing it, he added.

Payments Can Create Conflicts of Interest​

Dr. Andrew Foy, co-author and cardiologist, told The Epoch Times in an email the analysis shows a strong relationship between physicians and industry, but there are other indicators of this relationship as well. For example, it’s not uncommon for industry ads to be featured on homepages of major medical journals or for a medical conference or meeting to bombard physicians with industry advertising.

“When I experience this at conferences, I feel like industry is not only welcome at these events but that the event is built around industry and its involvement,” Dr. Foy said. “There’s certainly no attempt to hide these relationships. The main reason being, at least in my opinion, is that many physicians, perhaps even the majority, believe the physician-industry collaboration is a net benefit to patients and society.”

Dr. Foy said he doesn’t necessarily share that view, but he doesn’t believe there is strong, objective evidence to support one side or the other as it relates to the overall benefits or harms of the relationship between physicians and industry.

“At this moment in time, the profession seems only interested in transparency. ‘As long as everyone is transparent, then everything is fine.’ As if someone cannot be transparent about their conflicts and highly biased at the same time,” he said.

Dr. Foy said he worries that conflicts of interest directly related to physician–industry payments may lead to overly enthusiastic recommendations or guidelines from medical organizations to use new products, even if they have not been sufficiently tested or where the evidence is not strong enough to recommend them over an old standard, or in some cases, nothing at all.

Additionally, Dr. Foy said a “major problem” with physician–industry payments is that they “have a way of tilting physicians sympathy toward industry” and the industry’s “medical advancements” which encourage physicians to more willingly adopt new products for the sake of “industry advancement,” even if they don’t have a direct conflict of interest with that particular product.

“In a way, they become cheerleaders for industry and more open to adopting new products simply due to this attachment,” Dr. Foy told The Epoch Times.

“I think what our paper does do is provide some numbers, which some may find shocking, and hopefully it renews interest in having conversations about physician-industry payments and conflicts of interest and perhaps facilitates more research,” he added.
 

nomifyle

TB Fanatic
The above post is a mouth full, so to speak. Having worked in the the medical field, on the administrative side, in a medical school, a large teaching hospital in the legal department and for a short amount of time in an actual doctors office and the common sense that God gave me I have a clue.

I've never taken any of them, but statins for sure were are pushed on people. A nurse, that I use to work out with, her husband was a cardiologist was convinenced everyone over a certain age needed to be on statins. Her blood work was so good that "they" would not put her on a statin, she was upset about it, felt like she was being deprived of something.

And of course we all know that a large percentage of ads are from pharmaceutial companies and these companies fund medical schools too.
 

teneo

Always looking for details I may have missed.
This is a big problem and I also worry about the big pharma influence on the "standard of care" which requires doctors to treat patients to that standard. Coincidentally of course that requires doctors to prescribe more and more medications that may not always be in the best interest of the patient.
 

PghPanther

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My family doctor was pushed out of the Blue Cross shield network because he refused to prescribe medications and or the dosage levels to patients as an effort to meet pharma sales incentives and kickbacks for doctors.
 
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zeker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The family doctor group is always full of drug reps waiting for their appt. They also regularly supply lunch for the whole staff, usually on Friday. A BBQ delivered lunch for about 40 people is pretty expensive.
as is the hookers and blow at the conventions. :whistle:

conventions with epstein-type photography sessions.

not advertised, but still, included in the pkg deals
 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Cary and I trust all of our doctors. They are all willing, and do, acknowledge that herbals and supplementals work in certain cases. They all are willing to listen to our concerns about any prescription drugs we are given and only write them if all else fails. We reach for herbal and supplemental treatments, first, if we know what they are for our ailments. Sometimes, prescription drugs are what it takes, though.
 

Annika

Senior Member
I have seen the checks from the reps and like the conventions, puts one into a pretty impressive lifestyle.
 

zeker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Great; how exactly does one ask their physician just how hard they're on the take?
I had a blood clot in the lung.

went to ER

new dr each day at ER.

young dr prescribes Eliquin

I was not yet 65 yrs old, so no seniors plane for me.

went to pharmacy onsite

$150 for 1 month supply.

took 2 pills and had to go back to ER next day

new dr in ER.

he says "dump them in the garbage on go on warfarin"(much cheaper)

following week I go back to ER.

first young dr was there that day.

he asked how the Eliquin was doing.

told him him another dr had put me on warfarin

he was pissed and wanted to know who had over ridden him.

told him that in the future he should ask his patient if they could afford the drugs he prescribed.

he was shocked that i had not applied for any drug coverage, nor did I have any.

I ended up taking the remaining Eliquin to my town clinic,

and they would give them to someone who had no drug coverage.
 

ktrapper

Veteran Member
They need repeat customers. Its a industry, a business model, and you are just another number. The profit is the most important thing to them not your health and well being.
If you don’t understand this by now you have not been paying attention.

If they were really concerned about your health they would trying to talk to you about how not to need these drugs.
 
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Signwatcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The place I go is for resident physicians. They are there 1-3 years and then move on.

I figure I can get what I want care-wise from them.

The Doctor will come talk with me and go to the higher up Doctor and they quickly review the situation.

Well, I had let my cholesterol get a bit out of hand by ingesting too much fried food over too long a time. The Higher up Dr. REALLY wants me on statins. I can't do statins. Tried Organic Red Rice Yeast extract and it weakened my muscles to the point of being an issue.

She actually came in and tried to intimidate me so I would go on it!

I informed both doctors that I would work on lowering it myself using Musta grass tea and beet root powder.

I did. The resident Dr. was impressed with the results after 3 months. But the overlord Dr. never came in to speak with me about my progress.

Interesting. Maybe if I offered her a monetary bonus she might come in and talk with me? :lol:
 

bassgirl

Veteran Member
They all do this to some extent. The Hospitals tried to curb it a long time ago by no longer letting accept actions or ball game tickets etc. But they find a way.

If it wasn't profitable to get MD's to do this there would not longer be drug reps coming into the office once a week and bringing "lunch" for the staff.

It's a weekly thing in most offices.
 

GB Appling

Contributing Member
When my mother-in-law worked in the medical field their lunch was catered EVERY business day from various drug company representatives.
 

amazon

Veteran Member
The family doctor group is always full of drug reps waiting for their appt. They also regularly supply lunch for the whole staff, usually on Friday. A BBQ delivered lunch for about 40 people is pretty expensive.
Not everywhere. Many health care systems have banned this.
 

bev

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Great; how exactly does one ask their physician just how hard they're on the take?
I have a spinal cord stimulator. Prior to getting this, I was concerned about what or how much my surgeon may have been given to use the model of stimulator that I got. I found a website that allowed me to look up my orthopedic surgeon’s name. He was not on the list. That list was about using certain devices, not about meds. Sorry I don't remember the link.
 

Delta

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I hate to read and comment on this. I am presently under orders from my urologist to take antibiotic Cefdinir 300mg as well as a "flow max" type pill. I'm only on my second dose of the Cefdinir (haven't gone for the other at all yet--but am peeing). Fact is, I'm very anxious about all the exciting side effects they tell us about. I've only had one issue with a antibiotic, long ago, and other than that no issues at all.

I used to work for a surgeon. I attended with him a number of sales-reps presentations . . . a learned that that is how doctors "keep up" with the "new information".

Bottom line: I do not trust my doctor and am making myself sick with anxiety. I did not start a prayer-request thread, but if any of you talk with God, remind him I'm trusting him as best I can and could use some help.
 
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Just Plain Mom

Alien Lizard Person
Interesting.

I mentioned once, I have a heart problem, and was told by my specialist (PH) that I needed to find a cardiologist. I finally chose one. I really like him.

He put me on Jardiance, one of the meds listed in the article. It's expensive...over $500 for three months' worth. And we are on the economy plan of life, so it wasn't easy. Doc's plan was to put me on that, then at next visit, take me off expensive med I was given 15 years ago. Jardiance didn't exist back then, he explained, and I think it will work better. OK. My insurance agent found me a plan that has an out-of-pocket maximum, which eventually will be met.

So I started the Jardiance. I needed a couple of weeks to make it to the 6-month check up, when we'd make a decision on whether it had worked. I mentioned it to my PCP and she gave me several weeks' worth, her nurse murmuring under her breath that he (the new cardio) probably got a kickback for putting me on it, and he should have given me some. (He gave me 2 weeks, to get me started.)

Next echo...after being stable for 14 years at Grade 2, I am now at Grade 1. AND I had stopped the expensive other med myself because you can't take it with Paxlovid (for covid)...and I never started it again. I feel the difference. He was pleased.

I just looked him up. He has received less than $500 in food from two drug manufacturers, neither of which makes Jardiance. Just for kicks, I looked up my specialist who originally prescribed that previous expensive medication. Almost $4000, some of it from the maker of Jardiance. Life is funny.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
If someone knows HOW to use the website linked above to see if your doctor has been getting payments and how much, please step us through it.

There are hundreds of things you can subscribe to but none of them explicitly mention “payments”.

I just put my doctor's name into that white field with "Find a Provider Profile" over it. Then press "search the data" and click the link with their name on it.
 

SlipperySlope

Veteran Member
The site is a pain to use but stick with it. After a few crashes and lockups I got some good info. I checked all of the ten Dr.'s in our local group family practice. Most of them got around 2K a year. One of them got 1.2 million in 2022 from..drum roll..Modernatx. No wonder he signed a letter in the local paper encouraging folks to get the COVID vaccine.
 

TFergeson

Non Solum Simul Stare
Now look up the bonus per COVID vax given to the doctors and hospitals (from the fedgov no less), the $ for each prescription of Remdesivir, each intubator etc. It was a money making bonanza
 

Peachy

Contributing Member
If someone knows HOW to use the website linked above to see if your doctor has been getting payments and how much, please step us through it.

There are hundreds of things you can subscribe to but none of them explicitly mention “payments”.
I clicked on "advanced search" and just typed in the dr's name and state:
 

Peachy

Contributing Member
Bottom line: I do not trust my doctor and am making myself sick with anxiety. I did not start a prayer-request thread, but if any of you talk with God, remind me I'm trusting him as best I can and could use some help.
Of course!! Prayers for calming and trust---in God not the doctor!
 

Bps1691

Veteran Member
Since there are very few doctors in a private practice today, the corporations and clinics also push on their employees what they should prescribe as well.

Our personal doctors and specialists have dramatically changed since Obamacare. All but one of our good ones have retired. Their replacements have progressively sucked as we been forced to change.

I’m on my third pulmonary specialist now. I changed to a different clinic and doctor 2 weeks ago.

The last one I couldn’t get in to see for over 2 months and what started out as a cold turned into a full exacerbation even with a trip to convenient care and getting some relief in the first month. Once the meds were done it came back in 3 days.

So far so good on the new one.

I just wonder how much big pharma pays under the table to the elected representatives and senators to protect them.

Medicine has gone to hell compared to what it was pre-Obama’s remaking into the mess it is now.
 
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bev

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Is there a similar website where we can look up our state and federal representatives to see what they’re getting for voting a certain way?
 

llknp

Senior Member
Medicine in this country is driven by big Pharma and the insurance companies. Physicians have little latitude to do anything other than what is dictated to them. Big Pharma pacifies them with little kickbacks based on drugs prescribed. Been that way for years.
 

PghPanther

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Great; how exactly does one ask their physician just how hard they're on the take?
There is a simple way to determine that..................a responsible physician when discovering an issue with your health that is the result of poor lifestyle choices will try to work with you in changes to your lifestyle to arrest and reverse that condition as a first line of defense.

If you are prediabetic and the doctors doesn't discuss the first line of defense as outlined above but rather immediately prescribes you medicine without any consideration of a natural process to halt that degenerative condition first then fire that doctor and find one who will.

When I found a family doctor many years ago I said to them before I became their patient I want you to know if you consider the following pathology with me in the future when discovering a possible health issue that being and will be stay firm to this process.......

1) Is there anything for a health condition you discover with me that is not in need of an immediate medical intervention that could be the result of poor lifestyle choices that we can arrest or even reverse that condition by implementing life style choice adjustments as my first line of defense.

2) If there is nothing that can be done in #1 and/or as a patient I am unable or unwilling to make those changes then what would be the least invasive medical prescription that will allow me to live a reasonable life verses the short and long term side effects of that medication.........this would be the second line of defense.

3) If a health condition is not susceptible to responding to #1 or #2 and needs further medical intervention (aka surgery) / medical treatment etc.....either immediately or to be considered in a slower developing issue in the future sometime then this would be my 3rd line of defense only if the prior two are exhausted in their effort.

If you can't find a general practitioner who agrees and implements the above process with you as a patient. Then fire them and find one who will.

This way you can find out their approach without accusing them of anything but stating how you feel medicine should be practiced with you as the patient.
 

mistaken1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Medicine in this country is driven by big Pharma and the insurance companies. Physicians have little latitude to do anything other than what is dictated to them. Big Pharma pacifies them with little kickbacks based on drugs prescribed. Been that way for years.

A relative makes her living suing medical corporations. A few years ago she pointed out that the insurance corporations and the medical corporations get together to set the prices that the consumers will pay, the consumers have no seat at that table.
 
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