[GVT]what's it gonna take?

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
So, what's it gonna take for everything to finally break. Over the past three years, I have been reading here and on other boards about how everything has been building to a head. Everyone seems convinced that "it can't last much longer". And yet, I have books from the 80s, and 70s, and even 60s, where the theme is the same. Somehow everything is always teetering on the brink, and can't last more than a few years. Yet, it never comes to fruition. It just keeps mounting higher and higher. Now, I am by no means about to become a polly, and declare that because it hasn't happened it can't. Many of the issues we track here are credible enough to worry about, and have real evidence which can be easily obtained by anyone who cares to look. The question is, will it ever truly collapse on its own (past "trigger points" have so far utterly failed to produce any real sign of collapse), or, as I asked once on the old old board (yourdon ezboard), is the revolution finally at hand? We can pontificate all we want about how bad things are. Those of us like INVAR can rail against all the armchair quaterbacks that everyone "talks about the weather but no one does anything about it", and some of us engage in activism against the monolithic state to no effect due to lack of any organized effort.

That is kind of the crux of all this. We talk constantly about the "sheeple", and their overweening desire to live the "nerf life". At any sign of dissent, we climb all over ourselves with declarations that the sheeple are finally waking up. The truth is, the sheeple will never just "wake up" on their own. It will take a massive disruption of Life As We Know It to get them to do anything, and at most all we will get is loud demands from them for the government to "make the bad things go away". We have to realize that only real privation, with no hope of government salvation, is ever going to motivate the masses to take back their lives. We also have to realize that, as we are now, we have nowhere near the critical mass to even dent the masses' awareness, and will most likely never amount to anything other than the small group of (mostly) conservative life-survivalists we are. We will most likely never be able to mount any "grassroots" campaign that will become high-profile enough to gain any credibility (Ross Perot had way more resources than us, and a less-controversial viewpoint, and look where he is).

The one thing our viewpoint has going for it is the fact that things really are piling up, and have been for a long time. And the higher something is piled up, the easier it is to knock it over. If all the potential situations started snowballing out of control, the ensuing disruption would disrupt society substantially, to the point that people really would have to do something about it. I know the policy in the past with this board is that we don't openly advocate overt action, to avoid attracting the wrong kind of attention. How long do you let that kind of attitude persist before it is no longer prudence that holds back your hand? And if you allow your hand to be loosed, in what direction do you let it fly? I don't think anyone here would advocate terrorism, since the populace needs to be made to move, not to cower further in their cocoons. But, I think the time has finally come for something other than angry phone calls/emails/letters to your congressman. Sooner or later, someone has to say they won't take it anymore. Do you want to keep wondering when the hammer will fall, or do you want to be able to say: "Finally..."
 

Cascadians

Leska Emerald Adams
Little Pig
pi_pig.gif
,

We don't have to anything, at this point, except prep ourselves and be ready.
Because TPTB in their idiocy are going to take it over the edge. The Winds of War are blowing.

Instead of using science, research and innovation to shape our future, TPTB have squandered the "good years" and will produce more resources the old-fashioned way: by forcefully wresting them from others.

Of course this time with horrid twists and turns and tricks via "technology."

Once again we most definitely hope and pray we are completely wrong.

But the signs are piling higher. Towering. Tilting.
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
A&L,
I agree that TPTB will make it fall, but they will do it in such a way as to benefit from it. At this point, for the good of society, the situation needs to be free of all control long enough to do at least a "warm boot" of civilization. The old structures have persisted past their useful limits, and no longer serve their intended purposes. I don't think we can count on the current crop of profiteering leaders to let things get out of hand. They have enough power to allow things to collapse just enough to benefit them, but not so far as to allow civilization to try again. I don't want anything so drastic as to have to rediscover any technology, but I do think our society needs to have the dead wood shaken out of it violently enough that it lets the general populace become aware of what's going on. At this point, I don't see the collapse being strong enough to jolt anyone into awareness that things just collapsed. I think it will just seem like a bad few years, except it will never get better. Everything will sort of lurch along like this, with bright spots and ever-growing control, until we stagnate completely. TPTB has the strength to hold the center, but for the good of our society, the center must not hold.
 

Reliance

Membership Revoked
People have a large capacity to tolerate evil situations. If you look at the living situation in Russia, there is still farther to fall here, in comparison.
 

Plantlady

Inactive
There's always the possibility that WE the PEOPLE are standing in their way. That is, WE, as in those of us who have taken the time to learn what TPTB are about and are opposing and exposing them in many forms. It may be that complete takeover is not as simple for them as they had anticipated.

Even still, because of what we know, we have every reason to continue to prep and thwart their activities at every opportunity. Our numbers are growing and they know it.
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
I think the problem is not that TPTB (or some subset) want to take over, nor is it that we are standing in their way. I think the problem is that we have at best a mexican standoff. Neither side can make any overt moves without getting a reaction from the other side. As such, something else has to be done to break the standoff. The best way would be for the situation to change so radically that the reason for the standoff no longer exists or is valid. That is what I mean by wanting things to collapse to the point that no side has an advantage, so we can in essence start over. Such a shift, even if it started here, would spread across the globe as balances of power yawed wildly. The resulting turmoil would last some time, but eventually things would settle out, and a new equilibrium would be reached. The world society has not seen equilibrium in some time, and at the moment, there are groups planning to find ways to keep things permanently that way, to their benefit. This will not benefit society in the long run, as everything thend to try for some balance of forces. Our power as humans has allowed us to skew things substantially, and it is time that was corrected, before we become permanently distorted.
 

bigwavedave

Deceased
Little Pig wrote - some of us engage in activism against the monolithic state to no effect due to lack of any organized effort.

maybe. you have to consider also how much worse things would be if you are wrong.

what event put a bee in your bonnet today?
 

Mountain Mike

Guitar Man
LP,

How and when things fall apart, and if they will be "managed" by TPTB to their benefit, will ultimately depend upon the nature of the "event." As has been duly noted, the trigger could be from several potential sources. It could be natural or man-caused. If it were caused by people, it could be caused by TPTB, terrorists, or simply by the herd moving in the same direction as if guided by an unseen hand.

I think life as we know it could be brought down quite easily and quickly by a collapse of the electrical power grid. Modern society would literally come to a standstill. I have often wondered why terrorists have not threatened or done things to take down the grid.
 

SmartAZ

Membership Revoked
I think you are simply not looking at all the things that have failed. The US ran out of domestic oil in the 70's and steel about the same time. Banks have been failing right and left for the last two decades, although we now call the failures "mergers". The money supply has been growing at over 18% per year for many years, but prices have not increased because of some odd international situations. Japan's economy has beem flat-lined for 12 years, and south of the border nothing works right and never did.

The trick here is that in politics, nothing is true except according to religion. Votes can be bought or lost. Failures can be denied, not reported, or blamed on scapegoats. Blatantly illegal activities can be done if the officials just never acknowledge that they are illegal. The people don't care, they just want their government to take care of everything, one way or another.

And as for religion, have you noticed there is a very insistent movement to completely separate religion from all public activities? Nominally it applies to all religions equally, but in practice it applies specifically to the Christian religion. That is the one that says, "It is not in man to direct his own ways."
 

ytwok pumps

Inactive
:p Hey, would the surprise factor be of any consequence if we all had the time to acclimate ourselves???
Would the energy transfer be as great if the challenges we will face came ever so slowly?

Can you possibly believe we help sustain others at a higher density through our negative everyday thoughts (energy)???

Would you believe that everyday events in this world happen expressly for the implementation of an agenda that we our not privileged to know anything about???
 
ytwok pumps,

heh, heh, heh -- what a flash from the past your post prompted -- "candle-shaped beings," Don Juan, peyote buttons, Sonoran desert . . . wacked-out professor instructing my comparative religion class from college days . . . ring a bell?


intothegoodnight
 

ytwok pumps

Inactive
:) Intothegoodnight hi! Hope Little Pig excuses my impulsiveness to thread drift but your relevancy is tugging at me or so it seems. ;)

Let's go back for a moment to what don Juan Matus told Carlos Castaneda about the Predator and Carlos's first glimpses of same:

"'Ah, that's the universe at large, ' he said, 'incommensurable, nonlinear, outside the realm of syntax. The sorcerers of ancient Mexico were the first ones to see those fleeting shadows, so they followed them around. They saw them as you're seeing them, and they saw them as energy that flows in the universe. And they did discover something transcendental. [...] They discovered that we have a companion for life... We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don't do so. [...] You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico.

"'Why has this predator taken over in the fashion that you're describing, don Juan?' I asked. 'There must be a logical explanation.'

"'There is an explanation,' don Juan replied, 'which is the simplest explanation in the world. They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them.'

"I felt that my head was shaking violently from side to side. I could not express my profound sense of unease and discontentment, but my body moved to bring it to the surface. I shook from head to toe without any volition on my part.

"'No, no, no, no,' I heard myself saying. 'This is absurd, don Juan. What your saying is something monstrous. It simply can't be true, for sorcerers or for average men, or for anyone.'

"'Why not?' don Juan asked calmly. 'Why not? Because it infuriates you?'

"'Yes, it infuriates me,' I retorted. 'Those claims are monstrous!' [...]

"'I want to appeal to your analytical mind, ' don Juan said. 'Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.'

"'But how can they do this, don Juan?' I asked, somehow angered further by what he was saying. 'Do they whisper all that in our ears while we are asleep?'

"'No, they don't do it that way. That's idiotic!' don Juan said, smiling. 'They are infinitely more efficient and organized than that. In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.

Don Juan continues: "'I know that even though you have never suffered hunger... you have food anxiety, which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver is going to be uncovered and food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. And they ensure, in this manner, a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear.'" (Castaneda, 1998, pp. 213-220)
 

Jesse

Membership Revoked
Little Pig:

TPTB are but puppets. Yahweh will act when He is ready as He always has, and He almost always waits until the *majority* of believers no longer believe He's going to do anything anymore.

Just look at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. The people were warned to get out of the city in 66AD,(the equivalent in prophecy to getting out of Babylon) FOUR YEARS prior to it's destruction but yet Yahweh told them the destruction was "imminent." In His time it was.

Sad thing is, that toward the end of the four years *most* people had moved back into the city, doubting their GOD. THEN Yahweh 86'd Jerusalem.

I figure we are in the FOUR YEAR (not literally timewise) period right now. The LORD is going to tarry to test out His faithful. He even said as much.

Don't be taken in by the "waiting" period. No word EVER proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh that does not return fulfilled.

Jus' waiting on Jesus here, - however long that takes. ;) - Jesse.
 

Lee P. Lapin

Inactive
Little Pig,

What's it gonna take?

TIME!

Please remember that the US soldiers who hanged John Brown in December of 1859 were marching off only three years later to fight the war he thought he could provoke by taking over the arsenal Harper's Ferry.

Timing is everything in life. No one gets any credit that really counts by being premature. Major changes happen when it is time for them to happen and not an instant before. There are always forces at work in human affairs driving things in one direction or another that are out of the control of ANYONE. Moving against the tide of human affairs will get you crushed, all you can do in some cases is to stand aside until your efforts have a chance to influence outcomes.

Even the most overanxious of farmers knows better than to plant seeds in the snow. Bide your time, observe, analyze,and prepare. Bend your efforts to helping those closest to you to do the same. The time is coming when even the most shortsighted will see that they are in the midst of events which will decide their future, and that of their children and their grandchildren. When that awareness dawns every leader who can be found will be needed desperately. Don't exhaust your capital before that time comes.

"There is a tide in the affairs of all men which, when taken at the floods, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the days of their lives are spend in shallows and in misery. Upon such a full sea are we now afloat, and we must take the current as it serves us, or loose our venture. . ." Mark Antony, in Shakespeare's _Julius Caesar_

Lee

[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: Lee P. Lapin ]
 
Top