Alas Babylon
Inactive
Choked on my coffee this morning...admission that the goons used an M-16 with a 20-in. barrel instead of the special 14-in. barrel model carried by the JBTs in Waco.
Every single event/discovery/revelation about this shameful and murderous affair shows deceit, duplicity and denial by the United States government, and yet nothing is done, nay, the standoffs, takeovers, and 3am raids continue.
Here's the link...read only with a settled and empty stomach.
<a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/928360">Chronicle/AP story</a>
<h3>Test disclosure spurs questions over firearm in Davidian siege </h3>
Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- The simulation that concluded government agents did not fire their guns during the Waco siege did not test the type of assault rifle the FBI had at the scene, said an official who helped conduct the test.
The simulation last year used a standard M-16 military rifle with a 20-inch barrel, said Robert Stewart, a U.S. Postal Service inspector who helped coordinate the simulation.
The FBI does not use standard M-16s, and members of its Hostage Rescue Team who were at Waco in 1993 carried a version with just a 14-inch barrel, an FBI spokeswoman said.
Firearms experts say the longer gun has less muzzle flash.
Lawyers for the Branch Davidians who survived the fiery end of the siege in April 1993 are questioning whether the test proved that FBI agents never fired their firearms at the Davidian compound.
"I think it completely undermines the test results," attorney Michael Caddell said. Caddell said he plans to use the test as evidence if the lawsuit his clients filed against the government is restored on appeal.
Former Sen. John Danforth, who led the independent Waco review, said he did not know specifics about the test gun. He said it would not change his conclusion that the FBI did not fire upon the Davidians at the end of the siege. Eighty Davidians died.
"I don't know what weapons were tested myself," Danforth said Friday. "But all of this was part of the agreement, and all of it was pronounced fair at the end of the test."
An FBI official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the agency provided one of the shorter rifles to Danforth's office and that the ground rules for the test called for the smaller rifle to be used.
Danforth said he thought he received "something less than total cooperation" from the FBI, although he said that did not change his findings that absolved the FBI of blame for the Davidians' deaths.
John Collingwood, the FBI spokesman, cited Danforth's final report on Waco, which said problems with the FBI's performance in turning over documentary evidence were settled to Danforth's satisfaction.
Stewart said the military's M-16 rifle that testers used had a 20-inch barrel, not the 14-inch carbine that the FBI had at Waco. He provided documentary filmmaker Mike McNulty with a photograph of the gun tested.
"We tested a standard military issue M-16, not a carbine," Stewart said.
The Davidian lawyers sought the simulation on March 19, 2000, because they believed flashes of light that appeared on infrared video from the final moments of the siege could be muzzle flashes from FBI firearms.
Experts from British contractor Vector Data Systems concluded that the flashes on the April 19, 1993, tape were glints from the sun, not gunfire.
Danforth and U.S. District Judge Walter S. Smith Jr. relied in part on that information to conclude that FBI agents did not fire at the compound.
Firearms experts say the difference in barrel lengths could have affected the test. Guns with longer barrels produce smaller muzzle flashes than those with shorter barrels because hot gases released by firing have longer to dissipate and cool, they said.
"From my experience, it's intuitive that with a shorter barrel, you're going to get a longer muzzle flash," said Don Bassett, a retired FBI agent who helped create the Hostage Rescue Team.
Caddell said he insisted that the test include the smaller M-16, and said Danforth's office kept him from inspecting the weapons used in the simulation. Caddell said the test protocol called for using the shorter assault rifle.
"We were either suckered by the Office of Special Counsel or we were suckered by the FBI, or both," Caddell said.
Danforth denied any wrongdoing.
(edited to correct grammer and add text)
[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: Alas Babylon ]
[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: Alas Babylon ]
Every single event/discovery/revelation about this shameful and murderous affair shows deceit, duplicity and denial by the United States government, and yet nothing is done, nay, the standoffs, takeovers, and 3am raids continue.
Here's the link...read only with a settled and empty stomach.
<a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/928360">Chronicle/AP story</a>
<h3>Test disclosure spurs questions over firearm in Davidian siege </h3>
Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- The simulation that concluded government agents did not fire their guns during the Waco siege did not test the type of assault rifle the FBI had at the scene, said an official who helped conduct the test.
The simulation last year used a standard M-16 military rifle with a 20-inch barrel, said Robert Stewart, a U.S. Postal Service inspector who helped coordinate the simulation.
The FBI does not use standard M-16s, and members of its Hostage Rescue Team who were at Waco in 1993 carried a version with just a 14-inch barrel, an FBI spokeswoman said.
Firearms experts say the longer gun has less muzzle flash.
Lawyers for the Branch Davidians who survived the fiery end of the siege in April 1993 are questioning whether the test proved that FBI agents never fired their firearms at the Davidian compound.
"I think it completely undermines the test results," attorney Michael Caddell said. Caddell said he plans to use the test as evidence if the lawsuit his clients filed against the government is restored on appeal.
Former Sen. John Danforth, who led the independent Waco review, said he did not know specifics about the test gun. He said it would not change his conclusion that the FBI did not fire upon the Davidians at the end of the siege. Eighty Davidians died.
"I don't know what weapons were tested myself," Danforth said Friday. "But all of this was part of the agreement, and all of it was pronounced fair at the end of the test."
An FBI official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the agency provided one of the shorter rifles to Danforth's office and that the ground rules for the test called for the smaller rifle to be used.
Danforth said he thought he received "something less than total cooperation" from the FBI, although he said that did not change his findings that absolved the FBI of blame for the Davidians' deaths.
John Collingwood, the FBI spokesman, cited Danforth's final report on Waco, which said problems with the FBI's performance in turning over documentary evidence were settled to Danforth's satisfaction.
Stewart said the military's M-16 rifle that testers used had a 20-inch barrel, not the 14-inch carbine that the FBI had at Waco. He provided documentary filmmaker Mike McNulty with a photograph of the gun tested.
"We tested a standard military issue M-16, not a carbine," Stewart said.
The Davidian lawyers sought the simulation on March 19, 2000, because they believed flashes of light that appeared on infrared video from the final moments of the siege could be muzzle flashes from FBI firearms.
Experts from British contractor Vector Data Systems concluded that the flashes on the April 19, 1993, tape were glints from the sun, not gunfire.
Danforth and U.S. District Judge Walter S. Smith Jr. relied in part on that information to conclude that FBI agents did not fire at the compound.
Firearms experts say the difference in barrel lengths could have affected the test. Guns with longer barrels produce smaller muzzle flashes than those with shorter barrels because hot gases released by firing have longer to dissipate and cool, they said.
"From my experience, it's intuitive that with a shorter barrel, you're going to get a longer muzzle flash," said Don Bassett, a retired FBI agent who helped create the Hostage Rescue Team.
Caddell said he insisted that the test include the smaller M-16, and said Danforth's office kept him from inspecting the weapons used in the simulation. Caddell said the test protocol called for using the shorter assault rifle.
"We were either suckered by the Office of Special Counsel or we were suckered by the FBI, or both," Caddell said.
Danforth denied any wrongdoing.
(edited to correct grammer and add text)
[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: Alas Babylon ]
[ 06-02-2001: Message edited by: Alas Babylon ]
