PREP Growing greens throughout the winter months - City or farm

[goosebeans]

I just came across this video and thought it was worth sharing. It looks so easy, I'm definitely going to give it a try. I'm going to set it by a wall to take advantage of any retained heat from the sun.

If anyone else tries it, post your results here so we can compare notes.

Run time 15:02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IXn2t8GLh0

 

[Pinecone]

Great idea. I might give this a try.

 

[SuElPo]

I just bought me the last pack of lettuce seed today at a produce store. The seeds will be great, because they come from a local place in TN. I am going to experiment with them to see how to get me some lettuce through out the winter. I have already been growing since spring the herb basil in my kitchen window. Gave some in a pot to my daughter in law.

Susan

 

[Loretta Van Riet]

What a BRILLIANT idea! Will give it a try! I wonder if some spare bricks placed along the base will help retain heat?

 

[Seeker22]

What a BRILLIANT idea! Will give it a try! I wonder if some spare bricks placed along the base will help retain heat?

Paint your bricks black to retain more heat and keep it longer.

 

[WalknTrot]

It greatly depends on your winter climate and light availability. As far north as I am, I can't even grow a late summer/fall crop of broccoli or cabbage (spinach or greens either) because the day length is so shortened so very quickly.

I notice this gal has what I'd call a southern accent - but she could be in Ohio for all I know. Anyway, your latitude/day length will make a big difference in success rate.

 

[Txkstew]

That is a good idea. I think I'll buy several, and use them out in the garden without the lid for little greenhouses.

You know, we have a Garden Sub Forum here that could use a few more posters and lots of more eyeballs!

 

[Txkstew]

It greatly depends on your winter climate and light availability. As far north as I am, I can't even grow a late summer/fall crop of broccoli or cabbage (spinach or greens either) because the day length is so shortened so very quickly.

I notice this gal has what I'd call a southern accent - but she could be in Ohio for all I know. Anyway, your latitude/day length will make a big difference in success rate.

She mentions Arkansas.

 

[homecanner1]

very cool idea, will keep it in mind. She said she is in Arkansas and still getting 60 degree days.

here is a smaller shelf version using a clear plastic liter bottle

https://thegardeningcook.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/green31.jpg

 

[LeViolinist]

Thanks for posting Goosebeans! I have all the stuff needed in the garage.

 

[fairywell]

This is great and works well. I did this 3 summers ago during summer months - planted directly into several bags of soil and everything grew beautifully.

Never thought of doing this with a "greenhouse" over it during the winter months.
I am going to do this for salad greens, which have become ridiculously expensive imo. I am going to do this today.

Thanks, Great video and cute cat.

 

[Stanb999]

It greatly depends on your winter climate and light availability. As far north as I am, I can't even grow a late summer/fall crop of broccoli or cabbage (spinach or greens either) because the day length is so shortened so very quickly.

I notice this gal has what I'd call a southern accent - but she could be in Ohio for all I know. Anyway, your latitude/day length will make a big difference in success rate.

For you... look into deep winter growing. https://extension.umn.edu/growing-systems/deep-winter-greenhouses

 

[Stanb999]

For the rest... I'm a commercial market farmer and do lots of season extension in hightunnels and under row covers outdoor. Lots of season extension is possible in all but the harshest of climates. I will caution anyone who thinks a tiny sterilite container and a brick will make much difference as far as heat goes. Your best bet is to plant hardy varieties and get row cover to protect the plants from the wind and moisture loss. While each plant has a low temp threshold where damage will occur. That temp is much lower than most folks assume. Under row covers... Regular greens like kale,cabbage, collards and asian greens are good till 25f. Chard will do ok down to 20F, carrots and radishes will soil store till around 15F. Lettuce will do ok till 10F. leeks and onions can deal with 5F or so.The hard hitters, Mache' and claytonia will survive below 0F temps and grow anytime the temps rise above freezing all winter long. The key to winter growing is your not winter growing. You grow your crop in the fall and harvest all winter. Always wait for above freezing temps to harvest.

Edited to add. The row cover has insulation value. So a 19 weight cover protects about 5 degrees. So the greens noted above would be good till about 20F. If you live in the north... You can indeed put them in a high tunnel which gives 5 or 6 degrees of protection and cover with a row cover for an additional 5-6 and have most of your greens all year long. Check out this video by Elliot Coleman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm6khNRIGhE

 

[Martinhouse]

Please take this as a bit of realism, not pessimism...

I am in Arkansas like she is and I have to say that her plastic tote might last two years before the sun makes it crumble to pieces when it is moved. If left in the sun year round, it could be brittle and cracking to pieces in just one year. So one might as well punch those holes in the bottom of the tote and have a container that is easily moved to where ever the best sun exposure is over the course of the winter.

Also, planting in the container itself would allow the lid to be rotated slightly to allow excess moisture to escape. And the lid would still be level and could be weighted down with a couple of bricks at the corners, because if that pretty little kitty can squeeze under the edge of her tilted tote, he's gonna make a deposit in the dirt that she probably doesn't want in her greens, if any are even still growing once he's done digging around in there.

Ratty old mattress pads or comforter blankets can make good insulation for single digit nights, too, and make it easier than leaves to cover the entire tote and far neater to remove, especially on a patio or balcony.

Hope this doesn't label me a party pooper here, but I hate people go to the trouble and get their hopes up and then be disappointed when it doesn't work out quite as easy as expected.

 

[Martinhouse]

Stan, good you made the point that the greens might not grow over the winter, but just stay alive to be harvested and so need to be started and brought to usable size before it gets really cold.

I grew kale and broccoli all winter long in my greenhouse the last two years, but they were relatively mild winters, plus my greenhouse is attached to the south side of my house and is very protected. Last year was mild enough that the comfrey and the strawberries in my greenhouse didn't even die back to the crowns, but kept green leaves all winter and started growing again very, very early.

 

[Stanb999]

Stan, good you made the point that the greens might not grow over the winter, but just stay alive to be harvested and so need to be started and brought to usable size before it gets really cold.

I grew kale and broccoli all winter long in my greenhouse the last two years, but they were relatively mild winters, plus my greenhouse is attached to the south side of my house and is very protected. Last year was mild enough that the comfrey and the strawberries in my greenhouse didn't even die back to the crowns, but kept green leaves all winter and started growing again very, very early.

You could grow most of the year as far south as you are with a proper tunnel and protections.

 

[Laurane]

My Star Magnolia tree has new buds on it right now - it doesn't know spring from Fall evidently, and I am in southern Canada.

So anything might happen with any plant - just give it a try.....what do you have to lose?

Saw someone who had spread a couple of inches of good soil on top of a straw bale and was happily growing carrots, radishes, onions in Alaska in October. Maybe using a bale instead of the lid to put the soil on might work too.

 

[vestige]

Is this method described similar to what my Momma used to call a cold frame?

We (she) would use concrete blocks to make a square or rectangular frame, fill it with rich garden soil (we couldn't afford potting soil in those days) and cover it with one of the old windows my father kept in the storage building.

She grew lettuce most of the winter if the winter wasn't severe. Sometimes she grew kale.

 

[Meemur]

It greatly depends on your winter climate and light availability.

True! I extend my season in Des Moines with a hoop house over a raised bed. I plant cool season crops in late August, and I have peas, kale, and leaf lettuce until Thanksgiving, sometimes later.

I grow mini-tomatoes in my kitchen window all winter. This year, I might experiment with microgreens.

http://veganstreet.com/raisedbedgarden.html

 

[Meemur]

Is this method described similar to what my Momma used to call a cold frame?

Extending the season using soil in a straw bale is a little different: there's heat from the decomposing straw that helps keep the plants warm. I've seen it done in Alaska, as well, but I've never had success with it in Iowa. I think it's just too windy.

A cold frame helps hold in radiant heat from the sun, but it doesn't make heat on its own. They work better in the spring when the days are starting to warm up into the 50s or higher.

Hoop houses work really well in Iowa because they keep out the wind, ice, and snow. We have enough light in Oct and Nov for cool season crops to finish growing but one early ice storm can do in the late harvest if the plants aren't covered.

I'm also toying with the idea of building a 5' x 7' green house out of salvaged windows and scrap materials, and mounting one commercial grow light out there. That would probably extend my season through Christmas and allow me to restart it in March.

Added: I used to have an indoor garden in my basement, but my kitty kept raiding it. Now, she has her own greens growing!

 

[SouthernBreeze]

One of the joys of living in the deep south is that we can grow veggies year around, except maybe January, without any covers as long as we have a mild winter. Our spring gardens go in the ground in late February which kicks off the growing season again. Mustard and turnip greens/turnips taste sweeter after a light dusting of frost. I still have bell peppers going in one garden right now.

 

[vestige]

turnips taste sweeter after a light dusting of frost

Amen.

That also reminds me that it is approaching time for persimmons to sweeten up.

 

[SouthernBreeze]

Amen.

That also reminds me that it is approaching time for persimmons to sweeten up.

Yep, and huckleberries, too.

 

[momma_soapmaker]

This is a great idea! She's definitely an Arkansan.

My biggest concern doing this now is fire ants (aka spawn of the devil). They're still active on these warmer days, and love getting underneath objects like the lid. I might try it after it cools off a bit more. We've still got the a/c on here.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Minnesota, Wisconsin and the Dakotas have winter temps well below zero for about 2 months. Won’t be growing anything outdoors in the winter.

 

[Martinhouse]

Dennis sure is right! I'm from Minnesota and I'll say that even the kale everyone says you can dig out of the snow to cut for eating is going to be killed by the cold unless there is LOTS of snow to insulate it. And if, as Stan posted earlier, it shouldn't be cut until the weather warms above freezing, there will be some long periods when there will be no harvesting at all, maybe even weeks, some years.

 

[packyderms_wife]

This was brought up recently in the Gardening forum here at TB, check out the threads there.

 

[goosebeans]

Gee, I wasn't expecting to see so many comments. I'm glad some of you found it useful. I'm sorry, I completely forgot about the sub forum.

No, it won't work for everyone. I lived in northern NH for many years so I know for sure it won't work up there! My hubby doesn't think I'll have much success with it here, but I'm going to give it a try anyway. We are in sw Virginia. Not quite as dark as up north but at over 2000 ft abs we can get some pretty brutal winters.

The main reason it caught my attention is that I got guinea pigs - was thinking stealth protein - for my birthday and those little suckers go through a lot of greens! As fairy well noted, they are ridiculously expensive! I was even thinking of seeing if I could keep some dandelion greens and clover going for them also using this method. We'll see.

I appreciate everyone's input and further ideas! Thanks Stan999!

We've had a harbor freight greenhouse sitting in it's box for 4 years and just haven't had the time to put it up.

 

[Adino]

Middle TN here.

We overwinter spinach every year. Have 2 beds going well right now. We use tunnels and mid weight cover cloth when we have our real cold snaps.

If it is really going to be a bad cold snap I will cut them basically to the ground. They almost always come back (this is how I started to overwinter. I figured they were all going to die so I harvested. They grew back. The party went on).

You really would need a heated green house to make over winter work in the north though (from WI).

 

[Terrwyn]

I grow lettuce, swiss chard, new zealand spinach, cilantro and kale all winter long in pots. Here in the high desert we get some hard freezes but mostly frost. On frost nights we move to covered porch and on freeze nights we move to the garage. There are Russian wild kale seeds that slight frost doesn't bother.

 

[Fenwick Babbitt]

One of the joys of living in the deep south is that we can grow veggies year around, except maybe January, without any covers as long as we have a mild winter. Our spring gardens go in the ground in late February which kicks off the growing season again. Mustard and turnip greens/turnips taste sweeter after a light dusting of frost. I still have bell peppers going in one garden right now.

So Jealous, my dream is to either get deep south, or get myself a bigger piece of country property here in the midwest so I can grow year round

 

[SouthernBreeze]

So Jealous, my dream is to either get deep south, or get myself a bigger piece of country property here in the midwest so I can grow year round

Living here does have growing advantages. Our gardens start in February ending in December. From time to time, we have hard freezes where some coverage is used, but my grandfather would rake light dustings of snow off cabbages that were still perfect in mid December. Anything grown in the early spring can also be grown in the late fall here. Some shade cloth is required during the hot summer months to keep tomatoes and peppers from scorching in the high heat. Everything else thrives in the heat and humidity. This year, we had too much rain, and our gardens were a bust no matter what we tried. Our bell peppers were the only thing that did well, and they are still producing in November.

 

[spinner]

In zone 4b-5a greens must be started in August/Sept. to hold through the late fall and winter. As others have said, they must have their growing mostly completed before the light diminishes. I can keep kale, spinach, chard, collards, broccoli, leeks, beets, some lettuces, rutabagas, radishes, and mache into the early winter with some protection if they have already matured. Some things will stay even into real cold. I have kept mache all through the coldest months and had salad all winter. It actually seems to grow some through the snow. Some varieties of lettuce will almost over winter, too with some protection. I use expandable low tunnels. Mache is usually planted in late August or into Sept. I didn't get it planted this year because it has been raining non-stop and I had to use the few breaks in the rain to plant garlic. If I get a break in the weather I might try to plant some to see if it comes up in early spring.

 

[Dennis Olson]

I used shade cloth on my tomatoes the year I tried to grow them here in Austin. It didn't help. The nights weren't cool enough (77° avg at night; 100° or more during the day) to allow the blooms to set into fruit, and the ones that did set split when they started to ripen because I had to water the plants every day to keep them from dying. Those who have never lived down here don't know how hostile a climate it is for gardens.

(Cactus grows very well down here however.)

 

[LeViolinist]

I used shade cloth on my tomatoes the year I tried to grow them here in Austin. It didn't help. The nights weren't cool enough (77° avg at night; 100° or more during the day) to allow the blooms to set into fruit, and the ones that did set split when they started to ripen because I had to water the plants every day to keep them from dying. Those who have never lived down here don't know how hostile a climate it is for gardens.

(Cactus grows very well down here however.)

I gave up trying to grow tomatoes in the south. The first 5 years here, I learned NOTHING I knew about gardening in Oregon would survive this place. ....

Now 18 years into it, I grow food that thrives in hot sand. Pineapples = harvest 22 of them this year, ( from re-growing the tops of store-boughts. ) Avacados = had more than we could eat, but were able to give lots away..... Bananas = yep.... Guavas... yep.... Muscadines, Asparagus, Lemons, Pomegranates.

The fun part is keeping the squirrels away. (Haven't figured that out yet) My kiwi have vines, but haven't produced.
Broccoli does well in the winter. Rosemary grows like crazy. Started an Olive tree; we'll see on that.

So now the greens. They melt in the summer here, and I liked the idea of OP, to have a small, easy from the back door in winter salad bed.
Got it done. It's on a lanai table.

Seeds: Arugula, Perpetual Swiss Chard, Spinach, and Mesclun mix. Everything germinated within 2 days, and I like the tall tubs. If we have a freeze, will toss a garden blanket over the table.