Misc/Chat Greenhouses and Hoophouses as a Prep Item

[Vicki]

Harvesting... The vegetable must be fully thawed and warmed prior to harvest. If you harvest frozen plants they will be wilted. These are for plants under a single layer of 19 weight row cover. The temp listed is the temp in the greenhouse; not outside.


So how cold is too cold? Single digits leave everything wilted and black. If you had the inclination you could double or triple cover and the hardiest plants would make it thru. But these are temps of deep winter and no Joke.

The most cold hardy I found was Lettuce. It can be expected to survive 10F. Lettuce will grow on the warmer days when the nights are in the upper 20's but will take several days to recover and return to growth if the temps dip into the teens. Prolonged temps in the teens will make it have cell damage and slight texture issues. But will be fine tasting and sweet. It's at least as good as the California imports.

15F Radishes and carrots will be fine for harvest, The tops will be gone. They will not grow and should be harvested before a real warm up or they will go to seed.

20F Cabbage will be fine tasting and sweet.

25F The rest of the Brassicas, turnips, rutabagas, beets and chard, and Chinese greens.

27F All frost hardy veggies will recover daily and continue to grow. Tho several days of cold will stunt the growth.

38F Solicitous are frost sensitive crops and will be stunted but will survive. (tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, ect.)

42F Cucurbit are very cold sensitive and will suffer stunting if the temps drop this low but will survive. (squash, zucchini, pumpkin)

55F Rapid growth for all garden plants is possible in a greenhouse. Temperature in not a significant limiting factor.


One thing to realize is relative humidity has a large bearing on the low temperature inside the greenhouse. Keep things moist if possible. If cold weather is in the forecast water the plants well and cover. The added water contains a lot of latent heat. A simple hose down can raise the temp of a green house well above the danger zone.

Excellent information. Thank you! I managed to get the first layer of new film on the greenhouse today with alittle help and the second layer goes on tomorrow. I'm liking the new film alot. Good deal. There was a small hole in the one piece and I think I'm going to write them to tell them that but I taped it up and all is well. 46 degrees tonight.

 

[Vicki]

Adding a few pictures I took today before I tore the old plastic off the greenhouse to replace it. You can see the suspended metal poles in a couple of the pics over the middle bed. I used a couple of row cover loops in the ends of the metal bars to hold them apart. I can raise and lower the whole thing with the chains. I may take it down as winter sets in and do a straight row cover over the middle bed. I added four inches of compost and soil to both long beds a month or so ago. I will be adding wood chips on top of that before winter.

 

[duchess47]

That is a really nice greenhouse.

 

[Vicki]

That is a really nice greenhouse.

Thank you Dutchess, I really love it. It's built very good and I need that. Seriously $800 from craigslist. It took two days to tear it down from the previous owner's place and one day to put it up at mine. Another option to get something decent is to go to any greenhouse in your area and ask if they know anyone looking to get rid of one. I see abandoned greenhouses quite often actually. Seems people get tired of all the work or a spouse passes away and any number of other reasons. It's worth a shot.

Btw, I should mention that I was given a heads up on that craigslist ad by a TB member and I still thank him over and over.

 

[duchess47]

You definitely got more than your money's worth there. It would really be nice if I could use plastic here. I'd never plant a garden again, just grow in my greenhouse.

 

[Stanb999]

You definitely got more than your money's worth there. It would really be nice if I could use plastic here. I'd never plant a garden again, just grow in my greenhouse.

Why can't you use plastic?

 

[Stanb999]

Excellent information. Thank you! I managed to get the first layer of new film on the greenhouse today with alittle help and the second layer goes on tomorrow. I'm liking the new film alot. Good deal. There was a small hole in the one piece and I think I'm going to write them to tell them that but I taped it up and all is well. 46 degrees tonight.

I only do a single layer of plastic. I figure the extra light is more important than the slight insulation value 2 layers will give.

 

[duchess47]

Why can't you use plastic?

I live in the high desert basin. Plastic doesn't hold up here to the extremes - heat, sun, wind. Wind 20 to 30 mph with gusts to 50 and 60 are norm. To give you an idea, our building codes require 30 lb. snow load and 80 mph winds.

 

[Stanb999]

I live in the high desert basin. Plastic doesn't hold up here to the extremes - heat, sun, wind. Wind 20 to 30 mph with gusts to 50 and 60 are norm. To give you an idea, our building codes require 30 lb. snow load and 80 mph winds.

The plastic is stronger than you would expect. My Greenhouse is plastic covered and it's rated for 100 MPH sustained winds of a hurricane. You are to remove the plastic if winds are forecast to be above 100 tho. As for snow load My area is 50 LB. That picture of me shoveling was due to 35" in 24 hours... They do very well in snow until the snow gets so deep it can't slide off. Generally you just plow the snow away from the side and it's not an issue they easily deal with a 20" snow fall. The issue I had was the tractor wouldn't go thru the 8ft snow drifts...

BTW Real greenhouses are engineered structures that meet commercial building codes.

 

[Stanb999]

I wanted to add something, Folks always worry that the plastic is the weak link of a high tunnel. It's not. The plastic is much stronger than you can imagine. When it comes to storm damage the plastic is damaged after something else gave way. Generally the door ripped open or the roll up sides let loose then the plastic can bellow causing structural failures. In a snow event It's the frames that get crushed and mangled. The plastic is largely fine. If you know you will have a wind event make sure the greenhouse is fully closed to protect it from infiltration. If your going to have a large snow event be sure to make efforts to clear it. If you live in a hurricane zone or snow belt build one with the proper design and follow the manufactures installation instructions.

Here are pictures of wind damage...

Here is some snow damage.

 

[mecoastie]

Look into the book called Four Season Harvest by Elliot Coleman. He doesn't try to keep stuff *growing * through the dark winter months in Maine (when you get too far North... Vicki and I certainly are... The problem doesn't tend to be heat as much as light). But he uses cold frames inside an unheated (except by the sun) greenhouse to keep grrens snd other cold hardy crops ready to harvest all winter long.

Summerthyme

THis what we are doing. Buying a couple of kits to make some smaller portable high tunnels. The thought is to get enough greens to provide some vitamins and a bit of fresh veggies to supplememnt the root crops. Too late for this fall but will use them to get a start on the season next spring.

 

[packyderms_wife]

I wanted to add something, Folks always worry that the plastic is the weak link of a high tunnel. It's not. The plastic is much stronger than you can imagine. When it comes to storm damage the plastic is damaged after something else gave way. Generally the door ripped open or the roll up sides let loose then the plastic can bellow causing structural failures. In a snow event It's the frames that get crushed and mangled. The plastic is largely fine. If you know you will have a wind event make sure the greenhouse is fully closed to protect it from infiltration. If your going to have a large snow event be sure to make efforts to clear it. If you live in a hurricane zone or snow belt build one with the proper design and follow the manufactures installation instructions.

Here are pictures of wind damage...

Here is some snow damage.

Thank you for sharing the good, the bad, and wow that is scary looking what the hell happened to the tunnel that's upside down?

 

[Stanb999]

Thank you for sharing the good, the bad, and wow that is scary looking what the hell happened to the tunnel that's upside down?

Hurricane Sandy

 

[packyderms_wife]

Hurricane Sandy

Oh, for some odd reason I thought you were in northern Idaho.

 

[duchess47]

Hurricane Sandy

I've got two carports, my neighbor has a carport and hay barn and another neighbor a carport that looks like that (or did). No hurricane, just spring winds.

 

[Stanb999]

Oh, for some odd reason I thought you were in northern Idaho.

They arent mine thankfully. They are from the google. Im in pennsylvania, tho i did lose a poorly designed one in the blizzard last winter. Several local farms lost their commercial units too. I would likely have lost the one if i didnt shovel. The snow just came down too fast 3 to 4 inches an hour for hours. The late heavy snow delayed planting for many which was good for me in the first markets of the season. I had fresh greens, lettuces, onions and spring root crops. They had only root crops from storage.

 

[Stanb999]

I've got two carports, my neighbor has a carport and hay barn and another neighbor a carport that looks like that (or did). No hurricane, just spring winds.

The point of the post was that the plastic covers remain intact.

Building codes on the coast are insane. Your winds and snow loads arent a thing.

As far as hoophouses. Im sure your county extension has bundles of info for you. Nevada was one of the early pioneers in pvc hoop building. You should really look into it. Here is a link to some of their work. https://www.unce.unr.edu/programs/sites/rma/files/pdf/HoopHousePyramidLake.pdf

 

[duchess47]

Thank you.

 

[Thunderbird]

Great in "normal" times, not feasible for obvious reasons during an extended emergency.

 

[packyderms_wife]

Great in "normal" times, not feasible for obvious reasons during an extended emergency.

Care to expound upon this point?

 

[Vicki]

I only do a single layer of plastic. I figure the extra light is more important than the slight insulation value 2 layers will give.

Well Stan I haven't gotten it on yet as the wind has been a bit too strong to attempt it but I've had single layers and doubled over the last few years and last year was by far the best yet for retaining heat. The film was doubled and that time I made good and sure there was no air loss anywhere before I ran the fan between the films. It looked pretty awesome all winter long like a big white dome in my backyard. Wish I would of taken a picture. I also took the extra polycarbonate sheet I had and cut it to fit in the west end wall and taped the crap out of it. It worked! This film is already giving me quite a bit more light then I've had in the past so I don't think the double will slow me down much. I appreciate your knowledge regardless and will keep it in mind for the future. Thank you!

 

[Vicki]

Looking at that upside down greenhouse made me think of another thing that helped me out and I should pass that along. I had been going to a family run farm with many greenhouses forever and before I got my greenhouse I asked them if they had any extra greenhouse parts they wanted to get rid of. I was thinking of trying to build a leanto type thing off the back of my garage at the time. They said actually we do and they walked me out back where there were all these metal poles laying all over the ground from old greenhouses. They said take as many of those as you want so I took a bunch of them. At the time a friend of mine thought it best to cut them and bend them into half circles so I could use them for a row covers and that's how I got mine. Free is always good.

 

[fish hook]

hmmm there's a harbor freight in Des Moines, wonder if they keep these in stock in the stores?

The one close to me had them in stock when i bought mine.Be sure to catch them OFF sale and use their 20% off coupon,saves about another $40.00 bucks.

 

[packyderms_wife]

The one close to me had them in stock when i bought mine.Be sure to catch them OFF sale and use their 20% off coupon,saves about another $40.00 bucks.

thank you for the tip!

 

[Freeholder]

Bumping this thread for reading by those who are concerned about the Grand Solar Minimum we are starting into.

Kathleen

 

[packyderms_wife]

Bumping this thread for reading by those who are concerned about the Grand Solar Minimum we are starting into.

Kathleen

Thank you!

 

[Txkstew]

This is my last Greenhouse of 5, that I put up back in the early 1990's. 4 were 30'x96' like this one. The other is 27'x30' that I bought from one of my customers. I still have all but one of the bigger houses, but now they are all grown up with trees and brush. They are still as good and sturdy as when I shut them down in 2000. The end walls have rotted at all the post, and leaned over, but didn't hurt the pipe frames. Like I always say, all it'd take is a crew of four worker guys and week of good weather, and they could be cleared out and ready to fix up for production. I just don't have the drive to get out there and beat my head against the wall running a nursery operation like I did for most of 10 years.

This frame cost $1080 back in 1994. I hauld it 100 miles from the manufacture to my place on my 16' lowboy trailer. I couldn't drive over 45 miles per hour, because the weight was to far back on the trailer, and made the load sway back and fourth. The hoops are two piece arcs 20' long. It was a nerve wracking trip, with me having to pull over and let other cars and trucks pass. A friend of mine bought one a few years later, and checked on having it shipped by common carrier truck. They only charged him $100 freight. Well worth it for sure.

 

[Txkstew]

I'm not much on PVC hoop greenhouses, but here, two of my Brothers had an operation going on, back in 2012. They rented a big commercial lot in Pasadena Tx that happened to have an existing big greenhouse and some other buildings. One brother had been growing and selling these 5 gal tomato plants, complete with wire cages. He had been upping his production to about 3000 units, and wanted to go big selling to Grocery Chains like HEB here in Texas. These plants had red tomatoes on them in April when sold on the market. Their plan was to grow 8000 of these 5 gallon units, which they did. Only problem, HEB did not follow through with the amounts they were going to put in their store. They only sold 5000 units, and just broke even more or less. With the property lease, and hired help, the overhead ate them up. I'm just skeptical as to how long before the PVC pipes gets brittle, and fail in the hot Texas Sun.

 

[China Connection]

Seems we all have locational problems. My problem is wind and heat in the summer. Everything just about has to be covered due to birds and wildlife.


Making jams are sauces is one way of value adding and at the same time storing produce.