20Gauge
TB Fanatic
Well if you are in CA or NY, it does seem to be true
ECON Gold and Silver news
- Thread starter Doc1
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CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Just to clarify my remarks were not about selling, only that Goldline in response to another comment, would purchase back any PM's one had bought from them, at the wholesale price of course.
And buying and selling depends on what one is looking at. If, you bought at 340.00 you can sell now at wholesale and make money, which you can turn into land purchases. For example. Which is what happened in Germany during their hyperinflation period after the war.
I personally don't have enough to do any of that. I'm just hoping I have enough to buy a horse when the economy tanks.
I'm not 100% convinced either way myself. But like PMs, I budget money that isn't going to essentials and get a little here and there.
Can we take the Bitcoin discussion to another thread, please?!
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
Hfcomms
EN66iq
I'd never put more into crypto or any paper asset than what I could afford to lose. For me BTC and the other coins fluctuate so much they are more speculation than stores of value. I do have some crypto and some mining stocks and if they pay off fine but if not that is o.k. as well.
I put most of mine into physical gold and silver kept in the safe. Gold and silver may rocket at some point or they may not but what they are is stable. An ounce of gold today will be an ounce of gold tomorrow and metal in your possession can't bankrupt or be someone else liability. While I do believe the overall purchasing power of the metals will go up in the future I view them more as actually money more than I do investments.
One can wake up tomorrow morning and find that your BTC lost 40K or more and if we do have a worst case scenario I don't think a digital asset is going to go very far in a total economic and banking collapse. Tis true you can't eat gold and silver but one can't eat crypto either and that is why we prep. For me gold sees us through to the other side of collapse and provides us wealth to work with and silver can be useful during the collapse as there is always a black market. They aren't going to want paper dollars or plastic and probably won't want crypto either.
If I'm wrong with the role of metal in the future I really haven't lost anything as even if au/ag don't play a significant role in the economic 'reset' they have never bankrupted or gone to zero value in human history and the central banks (especially in the east) are soaking up as much as they can. If the crypto people are wrong they have lost their investment. If they only put in as much as they could afford to lose they might be o.k. If they bet the farm and are wrong they will be in a world of hurt.
I put most of mine into physical gold and silver kept in the safe. Gold and silver may rocket at some point or they may not but what they are is stable. An ounce of gold today will be an ounce of gold tomorrow and metal in your possession can't bankrupt or be someone else liability. While I do believe the overall purchasing power of the metals will go up in the future I view them more as actually money more than I do investments.
One can wake up tomorrow morning and find that your BTC lost 40K or more and if we do have a worst case scenario I don't think a digital asset is going to go very far in a total economic and banking collapse. Tis true you can't eat gold and silver but one can't eat crypto either and that is why we prep. For me gold sees us through to the other side of collapse and provides us wealth to work with and silver can be useful during the collapse as there is always a black market. They aren't going to want paper dollars or plastic and probably won't want crypto either.
If I'm wrong with the role of metal in the future I really haven't lost anything as even if au/ag don't play a significant role in the economic 'reset' they have never bankrupted or gone to zero value in human history and the central banks (especially in the east) are soaking up as much as they can. If the crypto people are wrong they have lost their investment. If they only put in as much as they could afford to lose they might be o.k. If they bet the farm and are wrong they will be in a world of hurt.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yes, you are absolutely correct, but the rot goes deeper and closer to home as well. Americans were slowly weened off of precious metals in the twentieth century. Prior to 1933 we had honest money made of Silver and Gold. Yes, there were paper notes, but they could be instantly redeemed for metallic (precious metal) coins at any bank. Even during that period the monetary system was a partial scam, because there was never enough metal to redeem all of the notes in circulation.
In '33, Roosevelt ended the production of Gold coins and made it illegal for US citizens to possess most of them. There were some loopholes in his executive order which allowed certain elites to own gold coins, but the general public was largely unaware of them.
The '33 confiscation was generally accepted by the people because they were more patriotic and frankly, generally more ignorant and in any case they could still exchange their paper notes for as much Silver and Copper as they wanted.
Then in 1964 the government ended the production of Silver coinage, making the value of American currency much more tenuous, but Americans could still exchange their paper for Copper...until 1982, when the government ended the production of Copper pennies and began producing "copper washed" Zinc pennies.
We were then at a point where Americans - and much of the world - were trained to accept inherently valueless pieces of paper covered in green ink as valuable! The fact is that these pieces of paper could've better held their value had the government limited the amount they produced, but you all know that's a fantasy. Government constantly produces ever-greater amount of Dollars, thus reducing the value of all heretofore produced Dollars. That is the root cause of inflation and literally steals the value of all of the Dollars you hold! What's worse is that the vast majority of "Dollars" aren't even paper, existing only as digits on a computer.
The fog is ever more rapidly lifting as greater numbers of people (here and around the world) begin seeing through that fog and are placing their assets into precious metals and other forms of tangible wealth.
You might think of the ongoing Dollar destruction as a game of musical chairs and when the music stops, those who haven't parked their wealth in non-Dollar assets won't be able to find a chair.
Best
Doc
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
And inaccessible without the internet.
Even if you hold a coin in your hand (like you should gold) you can't take it to the local 7-11 and redeem it for bread and milk. Unless you want to pay 72,000 bitcoin for it. If the store knows what the value is.
So while it holds value on paper or rather in 1's and 0's in practicality is essentially worthless. As is gold certificates.
And to an even greater degree, currency.
Even if you hold a coin in your hand (like you should gold) you can't take it to the local 7-11 and redeem it for bread and milk. Unless you want to pay 72,000 bitcoin for it. If the store knows what the value is.
So while it holds value on paper or rather in 1's and 0's in practicality is essentially worthless. As is gold certificates.
And to an even greater degree, currency.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
I personally would like to know what "enough" is. There are a LOT of things I COULD be doing with money, but just which one to go with isn't always a clear call. I mean, if you have, say, five pounds, are you good? Ten? Thirty? Where's the "good" bar for something like that?
I mean, granted, ANY amount of silver will probably put you ahead of most. Though with silver selling at Costco I'm less sure of that than I once was.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
For me personally, would be to invest in items, stocks, bonds, crypto, and lose it all, and it not make me cry.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Whatever you can't afford to lose is my stock answer. We know that the dollar in general and all paper fiat currencies are going to revert to their intrinsic value which is 'zero'. This trend is currently accelerating. The market is making new highs every day while the insiders are selling their shares like Bezos, Dimon, Zuckerberg et al.
In the old days portfolio managers recommended a 10% share in physical precious metals and the last thirty years they've recommended a 60/40 bond/equities mix and that worked for a long time. Today the whole world is in the process of bankrupting lead by the US with not only $34 trillion in on book debt but over a hundred trillion in unfunded liabilities and is literally printing the money to pay the debt and racking up an additional trillion in debt every 100 days now.
In today's environment it isn't return on principal but return of principal. For me after preps are taken care of as well as everything else I need to sustain myself for a considerable amount of time I only keep enough money in the bank to pay monthly bills and everything else except for a few mining stocks and crypto's are in my safe. They only way I would lose it is to have it stolen but somebody would have to find it first.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Not a particularly useful answer. If I've got $1,000 to spare, I can buy roughly 40 ounces of silver or a six month bucket from Patriots USA. I can't spend that same thousand twice. Each has a use case, but the odds of buying too much food are less than too much silver.
Conversely, I also have to plan for the possibility that doom won't actually hit in my lifetime, so I need to plan a retirement strategy too. I used to think I could work the rest of my life. 10 years later, I'm less sure that's true.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Essential preps always come before metal. If you need the food then do that first. Metals is primarily for spare wealth in order to preserve your purchasing power after you've gotten other things that you need.
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
5 pounds is about 80 oz. Rafi Farber has said, comparing to Weimar Germany, that depending on where you live, 78 oz could get you a house/land when fiat goes to zero and metals rule supreme. I don't know. What I do know is that less than 95% of Americans and Canadians own one single oz. I also know that BRIICS are designing (or already have) a system based on two baskets, one basket will be basic commodities (wheat, oil, iron ore, stuff) and the other basket will be gold and silver.
Our country is so absurdly in debt that I think BRIICS is going to eat our lunch.
I took a seminar from E Joseph Cossman, inventor of the Ant Farm, the Velvet Elvis and many more you would find back of comics. He said that after WWII many countries had NO money, NO gold or silver, so deals were made all over the world in BARTER. He was an old man by the time he was giving seminars on marketing, inventions, etc., but remarkably funny and quick witted. A great story teller. That $500 seminar was the best money I ever spent on a 3 day education.
There are already claims that there are ships off our shores that won't unload because the sellers of the good will no longer take dollars.
According to Rick Rule less than 1% of 1% of the investor class are in precious metals.
Imagine a world where companies and even State governments might be desperate for real things to barter with the rest of the world, including BRIICS, because no one will take US dollars anymore, including your local farmer's market.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
And again, "need." Two years? Three? That's the one big problem with prepping. Where is "done"?
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
I've got preps I've never touched and I bought some of them when silver was $7.00. I've still got some silver from when silver was $1.65.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
You are never done. This is a lifestyle and not a destination. Just like it was in the military if you have any spare time and are not improving your fighting position you are wrong. Every day you can do something to improve your situation. One might think that having six months worth of food is sufficient but what if great depression conditions last five or ten years?
You can only do what you can do but at least do what you can do. For me I started in the late 80’s both storing food and putting away silver. I cost averaged and bought a few ounces here and there and over time it builds up into something more significant. Same with food storage. Not too many years ago I polished off some old mac & cheese boxes I bought in 1994.
It is never too late to start as long as there is still food to buy in the store and paper currency is still acceptable and the same with the metals. This has gone on far longer than I thought possible but I still keep on keeping on.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
"Improve your fighting position." That would be more valid if I knew what I was fighting. Famine? Random looters? Old age? These all require different preparations and very little overlap.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Cary C., your post is essentially correct, but if I may sir, allow me to possibly refine it a bit. I only really take exception to your sentence, "So while it holds value on paper or rather in 1's and 0's in practicality is essentially worthless."
While you can't "practically" spend precious metals in a store - unless you want to spend your 90% silver coins or American Gold coins for face value (which would be insane) - you should be aware of the alternative market and cultivate it. There is an ever growing market for precious metals among average citizens and business owners.
Obviously pawn and coin shops will be happy to exchange your metal for currency, but they are generally two of the worst avenues to do this. There are exceptions who will give you fair prices, but you won't know unless you talk to them.
A growing number of businesses ranging from radiator shops to barbers to mom and pop grocers will be glad to accept your precious metals at spot value for merchandise or services. Usually these people don't put up a sign (though some do) saying they'll accept PMs, so you have to ask around at the merchants you do business with. I guarantee that you'll find at least one who will take your metals and that number is growing. Talk to the merchants, including local pawn and coin shops and feel people out. In short order you will began to establish a little network of people who are interested in precious metals. As this bull market grows legs, more and more people will start accepting PMs.
Best
Doc
Hacker
Computer Hacking Pirate
Many economists believe we need a form of money that will 'expand' as the economy expands. They're wrong, as when using PMs, they will increase in value as the economy expands. This increase can be used to foster more investment.
With PMs as our money system, the only entities who'd suffer would be government and banks. Indeed, the People's wealth would increase so long as they saved their gold/silver, because we'd see a consistent rate of deflation.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Disagree to an extent.
Nobody knows exactly to the tiniest detail what is to befall this nation on the macro scale or you as an individual on a micro scale. But basic prepping is like a broad spectrum antibiotic. Look at food storage for an example. Do you store food to prepare against economic and financial implosion of the system on one extreme or simply against potential inflation in the future on the other hand as it’s cheaper to buy it now?
General prepping covers everything from the mundane to the extreme. And even if you can’t fully prep for what is coming (nobody can as we don’t know exactly what will happen) whatever you do now will still put you far ahead of most of the rest of the population.
My basis for planning over the years is to assume that I will be pretty much on my own for an extended period of time regarding the basics that we all need (food, water, shelter, clothing, power, etc) and then work back from there. If the worst doesn’t happen then you have lost some time and effort but you can still eat the food, and many of the things you have put aside you can still use eventually.
Getting back to the subject of the thread on the metals if the worst doesn’t happen economically and financially have you really lost anything? Gold and silver have been money for thousands of years and instead of saving paper currency in the safe (although I do have some) I store metal as a savings and retirement account. And if the worst case doesn’t happen one can be like Doc selling off a roll of dimes or some half dollars here and there to supplement your retirement.
To improve your ‘fighting position’ is to do something almost every day to make things better for you and yours.
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Some of us have waited a long time for this chart to finally appear.
Few others, among the general public, have any clue what’s going to happen with PM’s as their $’s buying power erodes away to nothing much.
But, it surely won’t be a boring revelation then!
Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
Few others, among the general public, have any clue what’s going to happen with PM’s as their $’s buying power erodes away to nothing much.
But, it surely won’t be a boring revelation then!
Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
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Hfcomms
EN66iq
UNSTOPPABLE DRIVERS WILL REVEAL BEST KEPT INVESTMENT SECRET
By Egon von GreyerzFounder and Chairman
March 25, 2024
The world’s best kept investment secret is GOLD.
- Gold has gone up 7.5X this century
- Gold Compound annual return since 2000 is 9.2%
- Dow Jones Compound annual return since 2000 is 7.7% incl. reinvested dividends
The simple answer is that most investors don’t understand gold because governments suppress the virtues of gold.
GOVERNMENTS WILL ALWAYS LIE TO THEIR PEOPLE
Has anyone ever heard a Western government tell their people that gold is the best protection against their government’s total mismanagement of the economy and their currency?Has any government ever told their people that throughout history all governments, without fail, have destroyed the total value of the people’s money?
That includes every single currency in history since no currency has ever survived.
And have current governments told their people that since 1971, their currencies have declined by 97% to 99%?
So why don’t governments tell their people that in the next 50-100 years their currency will lose another 97-100%?
Obviously, no government would ever be elected if they told their people the truth that the economy and their money will continue to be mismanaged and destroyed like it has throughout history.
And why don’t governments study history where they could learn from their predecessors mistakes?
And why don’t journalists study the history of money and educate the people?
The answer is obvious, journalism is just government propaganda and there is not a serious investigative journalist around today.
INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT INDUSTRY IN DENIAL.
In addition, the whole investment management industry neither understands nor likes gold.Studying and understanding money doesn’t serve their purpose. Better to create a mystique around a mediocre industry that on average underperforms the market.
A greedy and self-serving investment management industry is not interested in gold. Gold doesn’t allow them to churn commission which is important for their survival.
This whole industry could be abolished with most investments being held in index funds and physical gold. The net performance would most probably be superior to a very and inefficient industry.
DRIVERS FOR GOLD
In the 12 minute video extract from a Palisade Radio interview below, I discuss the drivers for gold.In summary the important drivers discussed which will soon propel gold to much higher levels are:
- Global deficits & debts – US, Europe, China, Japan, Emerging markets
- War
- Social unrest
- Gold buying by BRICS countries
- Central bank gold purchases of gold due to move from Dollar reserve assets to Gold
GOLD IS THE BEST WEALTH PRESERVATION ASSET THROUGHOUT HISTORY
- Gold is not an investment. It is nature’s money and thus the only money which has survived in history.
- Governments and Central Banks are Gold’s best friend. Throughout history they have without fail destroyed the value of Fiat money whilst Gold has for thousands of years maintained its purchasing power.
- As I discuss in the interview, risk is today greater globally than any time in history.
- Physical Gold is the ultimate protection against such risk.
- Gold for WEALTH PRESERVATION purposes must be held in physical form with direct access by the investor.
- Gold must obviously be held outside a fractured financial system. No use holding your gold in the system that you are protecting against.
- NEVER, EVER hold gold in paper form or ETFs.
- Gold must be held in a safe jurisdiction outside your country of residence and especially outside the US, Canada and the EU.
- Gold and Silver are not just for the wealthy. You can buy 10 grams for $70 or one ounce of silver for $25.
- With major bubbles in virtually all asset classes including stocks, bonds and property, the allocation to physical gold and some silver should be at least 25% of your financial assets and potentially much more.
RT 13 minutes
20Gauge
TB Fanatic
I still have silver dimes I got for 10 cents..... found them in my change.....lol
West
Senior
Barbaric and heavy.
Beautiful and light to hold.
Industrial and greedy.
Wedding ring beautiful, and cherished by all.
A mark in value, a notch in the money stick.
Give me my gold, I'll give you my insurance number is 79. Backed by its weight in its most purest form. Formed by fire. And casted in coin. For all to weigh and measure its pure state and true value as is in your hand real honest coined values.
Beautiful and light to hold.
Industrial and greedy.
Wedding ring beautiful, and cherished by all.
A mark in value, a notch in the money stick.
Give me my gold, I'll give you my insurance number is 79. Backed by its weight in its most purest form. Formed by fire. And casted in coin. For all to weigh and measure its pure state and true value as is in your hand real honest coined values.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
Do not worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
Tell THAT to the ant, thou sluggard.
Since I know your question is sincere, and the thread isn't currently busy with the OP, I'll try to answer it in general, at least.
Food... always figure 2 years worth. Obviously, that doesn't mean being able to eat the diet you're accustomed to for 2 years while the world is in chaos... but as a farmer who has grown nearly all our food for over 40 years. I know you're always going to have a "bad year" for some crop....maybe more than one. Staying a year ahead on everything you can for storage (and if you think you'll have a way to keep a freezer running, you can keep fruits, veggies and jeats for at least 2 years, if they are vacuum packed and sealed)
By the end of those two years, you should have managed at leasat one crop, and move on from there.
Additional insurance against famine used to be cheap... my beans and rice were purchased at 50 cents and 19 cents a pound. Pasta was 30 cents a pound. Now... not so much. However, a packet of seeds for a couple different dry beans, and a 20 foot row can produce several pounds of beans. If you mulch heavily once they are sprouted and growing, you'll have few weeds to contend with, and less chance of getting mold in the beans if the pods rest on the mulch.
The more variety you can keep in your preps, the better off you'll be.
Our priority list:
Clean water
Sufficient food to provide needed nutrients for 2 years for each person
All the tools needed to continue to heat the house (and cook food, once the propane ran out) for at least 2 years
Sufficient boots and shoes for everyone
Adequate sturdy household necessitues.necessities.. everything from kitchenware to sheets and towels. I actually started this in my early 20s when I chose stainless steel mixing bowls over plastic or glass
Adequate sturdy clothing for all seasons. If people in your group have weight issues, you may have to plan on altering their clothes, because most people will lose weight.
A way to heat your house, and get water if you can't run a well pump
Medical supplies to cover minor to moderate problems. If things go badly South, people who suffer serious injuries or illness aren't likely to survive.
Once you've got the above covered (obviously, I left out a ton of details... garden seeds, hygiene items, personal protection), THEN youncan consider more than a nominal amount of PMs. I'd suggest *everyone* include a roll or 2 of pre-1965 dimes or quarters... to be used in a dire emergency, only (buying gas on the black market to drive someone to medical help, for example). Putting enough cash into PMs to cover the next 10 years property taxes probably will pay off in your favor.
But above all... ask the Lord what HE wants you to prepare for! Our Amish friends considered prepping close to sin... relying on your own plans and "wealth", rather than God. They also pointed out that we don't know NOW how long our lives will be. It's all God's will.
Summerthyme
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
Just watched an interesting podcast with some speculation that shutting down the port of Baltimore will have a major affect on all of N. America, and could possibly affect large shipments of PM's between the USA and Europe. Speculation of course but I thought it interesting.
I think even "Large" shipments will be easy to divert to other places.
Southside
Has No Life - Lives on TB
If you don't HOLD it, you don't OWN it.
There is a lot of DON'T HOLD IT discussed above.
I would love to know where he considers safe?
Hfcomms
EN66iq
You have to understand who von Greyerz is. He doesn’t deal with people like us that might have 2000 ounces of silver and 30 ounces of gold. His company focuses on high net worth customers and you have to have at least 500K of investible assets before he will take you on as a customer. His company owns the most secure private vault in Europe located in the Swiss alps. His customers that own tens of thousands of ounces of silver and thousands of ounces of gold would be foolish and make themselves targets if held at home.
For people like us with more modest holdings you want to hold your metal close. Not so much with his clientele.
Dang! You have 2000 ounces of silver !?!?! I need to step up my game ! LOL
Southside
Has No Life - Lives on TB
So, let's assume for a second that I am one of his "High Net Worth" individuals. What good is that vault in Switzerland going to do me, in the middle of a catastrophe? Now, if I were there......
Hfcomms
EN66iq
A strategy that people like that use is to store their assets where they feel they are safe from confiscation and/or outside their country of origin in perhaps a few different places and maybe have a few different homes around the world. Not a whole lot different than people that hold offshore bank accounts for the same reason. And as I understand it the Swiss have laws that make if very palatable and ‘safe’ for foreigners to do so.
Southside
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well, if silver achieves the "lofty" goals that have been bantered about recently, I could get a place there.
It is rather pricey.