BRKG Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore has collapsed

I was under the impression that they also lost propulsion at least once from the reporting I saw. That's what leads me to fuel, since it would effect both generators and main engine. It could definitely be an electrical issue though if they just lost electrical.
I was of the opinion that main engines use bunker fuel and generators use real diesel. Not really compatible.
 
What's missing is why the loss of the main engine AND the gens. Power loss shouldn't shut down the main. The only thing they have in common is the fuel.

Maybe bad fuel to mains and electrical failure of emergency gen? Maintenance done on emergency gen and valve left closed? Too much load causing e gen to trip offline? Cascading failures?

Without having been there its strictly speculation, but initial loss of main gen and main engine at the same time smells like fuel to me.
Doubt if there’s a fuel shutoff valve.
 
Just a little side note. Operated microwave truck for TV station. There is a generator like you would have in an RV. There is also the engine alternator that will keep the engine starting battery charged like normal. There are also couple of deep cycle batteries charged by the RV generator or the engine. They feed 12v loads as well as a hefty 120v invertor for the technical loads. A feature that might be borrowed from RVs, the generator feeds from the vehicle gas tank, but from a tap about 1/4 from the bottom, so your genny can’t disable the vehicle. Operators have dipped that low, the genny shuts off. They call the engineer (me) wanting help. Tell them, drop the broadcast mast and stow it. That alone takes a few minutes. Go get gas. Return to location, set up again. They never run out again.
Another cute feature the new truck had, an AC field detector on top of the mast. Too close or too high voltage above them, it would open the air valve and drop the mast for safety. At times inconvenient, as they had to relocate the truck and start again. News director asked me to turn the sensitivity down or install a bypass switch. I gave him “that look” and “No”
 

Capt. Eddie

Veteran Member
Got a point. There are also dual filter valve assemblies with changeover valves that can swap filters while running continuous. Don’t know if those have an off/off function.
Yeah, your secondary filters usually have two (or more, depending on volume of fuel use) in a cross over configuration to allow changes when the restriction guage gets in the red (or yellow if you've got a good engineer / QMED) while running. On every boat I've worked on you have isolation for each side, plus the cross over valve.

ETA: If you leave the valves misaligned and start the engine best case is the engine runs for a little while and dies from fuel starvation. Worst case you suck air around the seal and have to crack the injectors to get the engine re- primed and running again
 

bracketquant

Veteran Member
Because in the world of jamming big ships into small spots this isn't even a close squeeze.

I was on a cruise in Rome and they spun the ship prior to docking between 2 concrete walls with less than 20' on each end.
That ship did it with no tugs. But there was one hanging around if they needed it.

But cruise ships have way more advanced propulsion including multiple bowel thrusters and aziopods in rear.
With multiple bowel thrusters in rear, is there a world of gay cruises, on ships, that I'm unaware of?
 

Jeep

Veteran Member
This is going to be in court for years. The lawsuits are going to be epic with everyone suing each other. I'd bet some ambulance chasing lawyers are already tracking down the families of the six that perished.
I told my wife this very thing this morning. The lawyers are lining up for the wrongful death lawsuits.
 
Yeah, your secondary filters usually have two (or more, depending on volume of fuel use) in a cross over configuration to allow changes when the restriction guage gets in the red (or yellow if you've got a good engineer / QMED) while running. On every boat I've worked on you have isolation for each side, plus the cross over valve.

ETA: If you leave the valves misaligned and start the engine best case is the engine runs for a little while and dies from fuel starvation. Worst case you suck air around the seal and have to crack the injectors to get the engine re- primed and running again
I let my tractor run dry once. Just once.
 

Bud in Fla

Veteran Member
Yeah, your secondary filters usually have two (or more, depending on volume of fuel use) in a cross over configuration to allow changes when the restriction guage gets in the red (or yellow if you've got a good engineer / QMED) while running. On every boat I've worked on you have isolation for each side, plus the cross over valve.

ETA: If you leave the valves misaligned and start the engine best case is the engine runs for a little while and dies from fuel starvation. Worst case you suck air around the seal and have to crack the injectors to get the engine re- primed and running again

The DP (Differential Pressure/Delta P/DP) lets the engineer know it's time to switch filters so one set can be cleaned. Anyone who's ever let a tractor or diesel truck run out of fuel will know that "cracking the injectors" ain't as simple or as easy as it sounds. too.
 

Capt. Eddie

Veteran Member
Got a point. There are also dual filter valve assemblies with changeover valves that can swap filters while running continuous. Don’t know if those have an off/off function.
Actually after thinking about it, I doubt the E Gen would have a cross over for the secondaries. It's not a continuous duty engine, in other words it's just a stop gap until you get the other primary gen online or the one that tripped back online.
 

Walrus

Veteran Member
Pudding brains has now said the US will pay to fix the bridge. Why?? Seems to me the owner of the ship should fund the repairs, or is pudding pandering again?
Remember, everything from here on is about him getting re-elected. The rebuilding of the bridge will be delayed by lots of lawsuits sorting through the mess. If fed.gov ponies up and foots the bill, that's lots of guaranteed union jobs right away, and they can steal it back from the insurers later.

So pudding is pandering. Anything he does until November is pandering.

Those presidential and campaign staffs are in full "Never let a crisis go to waste" mode.
 
Last edited:

Walrus

Veteran Member
So as bad as all of this is, it could have been worse. Getting the channel will be months if the pin heads get out of the way. A new bridge will be many years, if ever. Others up thread talked about tunnels. My son is currently managing the cranes at new tunnel projects in the Norfolk area, so when those tunnels are done, that equipment can be moved to Baltimore for a possible tunnel.
Good information, Lone Hawk, thanks for passing it on. Looks like we might have a dependable inside source to balance out all our crackpot theories, especially when they start recovering alien bodies!

Anyway, there's some tunnel chatter, but from what I've read, this HAS to be a bridge unless they do some significant changes on the tunnel design. The reason is because this bridge is the only HAZMAT passage in the area which is approved for truck and big load traffic which can't go through the tunnels. I shudder to think of HAZMAT loads trapped in tunnels.

I won't get into it any further; if someone wishes to dig deeper, have at it.
 

Walrus

Veteran Member
Bad fuel??? How about all the fuel filters on Diesel engines? Especially on a ship. And those engines burn crap Quality fuel, so a good filtration system is a most! More noise to distract us.......
Well, don't be too quick to disqualify that. Cap'n Eddie gave some version of this as his most likely scenario, so even though I'm personally going to an electrical switchgear issue, we can't throw the bad fuel baby out with the dishwasher oops bathwater.

I don't think it's that simple but it could very well be. And definitely could be on a backup genset which wasn't started very often.
 
Last edited:

SageRock

Veteran Member
This brings to mind the Caldecott Tunnel fire in Oakland, California (Bay Area):

Fair use cited


The Caldecott Tunnel Fire occurred on the night of April 7, 1982 at 12.20 a.m. when a drunk driver struck the tunnel wall of the north tube of Highway 24 between Oakland and Orinda leading to a chain of events that killed seven people and injured two. Following her accident, the few cars in the tunnel began to backup behind drunk driver's disabled vehicle. Within minutes, a gasoline double tanker carrying 8,800 gallons was followed by an AC Transit bus. The tanker hit the disabled car halfway through the tunnel and the bus hit either the tanker and/or the car. The tanker began leaking gas and the driver ran safely out of the tunnel.

Within minutes 20 cars entered the tunnel, in which the gasoline was flowing down the drains. Most of the cars were able to reverse out of the tunnel, but four cars (two pickup trucks, a beer truck, and a car) were trapped behind the tanker, which was on fire. June Rutledge, founder of the Piedmont Historical Society and her son Stephen Rutledge got out of their trapped pickup truck and walked uphill in the tunnel to warn other drivers not to enter. June used one of the emergency phones in the tunnel to call for help, but was killed when a fireball flashed through the tunnel. Her son Steve was injured, but survived, as well as Paul Petroelje, the driver in a second pickup truck.

Katherine and George Lenz, the elderly couple in the trapped car were also killed, as was John Dykes, the bus driver, along with Everett Kidney and Melvin Young, the occupants of the beer truck. Janice Ferris, the drunk driver in the first stopped car died as well.

Aftermath​

One result of the accident was the banning of tanker vehicles containing flammable liquids from tunnels all over the country, or limiting them to certain hours. In the case of the Caldecott, they are only allowed from 3AM to 5AM, by Vehicle Code Section 31301.
 
Last edited:

bluelady

Veteran Member
Watching Agenda Free TV. Those in the truck are two of the six workers. They won't be able to get to the other four until debris is moved.

Someone mentioned the workers didn't have walkie-talkies so they weren't warned in time. :(

As far as the anchor being dropped or not: possibly miscommunication, possibly they meant not able to drop in time to be effective. No ship person here, but it seems to this landlubber that there were enough factors such as timing, momentum, direction of travel, current, that it would be unlikely they'd have helped much in the little bit if time they had. Capt Eddie/mecoastie have probably addressed this with actual facts :) but I'm behind on reading.
 

Walrus

Veteran Member
THey lost the main engine too? I must have missed that. .
I don't think they lost the big MAN engine. They probably meant the main generator (of which there are redundant ones), from what I'm gathering. They couldn't have reversed the prop if they'd lost the big dawg, I think?
 

jward

passin' thru
Sal Mercogliano (WGOW Shipping) ⚓☠️
@mercoglianos

MV Dali and Port of Baltimore Update - March 27, 2024

1️⃣Current Situation
2️⃣Situation in the Port of #Baltimore
3️⃣Replay of Events of March 26
4️⃣Information on MV #Dali
5️⃣Plan Going Forward

#baltimorebridge
#BaltimoreBridgeCollapse
#supplychain

MV Dali and Port of Baltimore Update - March 27, 2024
What is Going on With Shipping?
rt<15m
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoPRz7wk3WY
 

jward

passin' thru
Jean-Paul Rodrigue
@ecojpr

Main terminal facilities in the Baltimore port complex. These facilities are currently inaccessible to maritime shipping services because of the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge on March 26, 2024, when the containership MV Dali (10,000 TEU) collided with a bridge pier).

> Containers (Seagirt Marine Terminal). 1,126,000 TEU in 2023.
> Vehicles (Dundalk, Fairfield, Chesapeake). 750,00 vehicles, including 417,000 automobiles, handled in 2023.
> Coal (Console Marine Terminal, Curtis Bay). 22 million tons of coal exported in 2023.
> Domino Sugar Plant. Major producer refining 855,000 tons of sugar per year.
> Major US Coast Guard ship maintenance facility.
> Cruises (Maryland Cruise Terminal). 440,000 passengers handled in 2023.
> Breakbulk (South Locust). Mainly handling paper products.
1711580000722.jpeg
 

jward

passin' thru
gcaptain.com
London Insurers Face Billions in Baltimore Bridge Claims
Bloomberg



By Joe Easton (Bloomberg) Insurers face claims of as much as $3 billion following Tuesday’s collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, with firms on the Lloyd’s of London market most exposed, Barclays analysts said.

Insurance claims for damage to the bridge alone could reach $1.2 billion, the bank said in a note, predicting further potential liabilities of $350 million to $700 million for wrongful deaths and yet-to-be-determined amounts for business interruptions while access to the city’s port is blocked.

“While the incident still has to be investigated, we believe it has potential to become a significant insurance claim, particularly in the marine market,” wrote Ivan Bokhmat and colleagues.

The bridge collapsed Tuesday after being struck by a container ship, the Singapore-flagged Dali, sending vehicles into the water and threatening chaos at one of the most important ports on the US East Coast.

Insurance risk will be spread across firms due it being syndicated, the Barclays analysts said, noting the policy was led by AXA XL. Other major marine reinsurers include Hannover Re, Swiss Re AG, Munich Re and RenaissanceRe. The significant involvement of Lloyd’s of London may make smaller London Market reinsurers comparatively more exposed, they added.

By Joe Easton © 2024 Bloomberg L.P.

 

Bubble Head

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Wonder what the cargo they where carrying? If the refers were running I would assume food. I bring this up since the refers had tripped the generators at dock and needed repair before cleared to cast off.
 

jward

passin' thru
gcaptain.com
East Coast Ports Work To Reroute Baltimore Cargo
Reuters



By David Lawder (Reuters) – The catastrophic bridge collapse that closed the Port of Baltimore to ship traffic is unlikely to trigger a major new U.S. supply chain crisis or spike goods prices, due to ample and growing spare capacity at competing East Coast ports, some economists and logistics experts say.

With six people still missing after a container ship collision destroyed the Francis Scott Key Bridge, it remained unclear how long the span’s twisted superstructure would block the harbor’s mouth.

But port officials from New York to Georgia were busy on Tuesday fielding queries from shippers about diverting Baltimore-bound cargo from containers to vehicles and bulk material.

“We’re ready to help. We have ample capacity to absorb any surge in container traffic,” Port of Virginia spokesperson Joe Harris told Reuters.

The Norfolk-based port is seen as a major beneficiary, due to its close proximity to Baltimore, but ports in Savannah and Brunswick, Georgia, also were poised to absorb some traffic, a spokesperson for the Georgia Ports Authority said.

The situation is a marked shift from the clogged, understaffed ports and supply chain chaos of 2021 and 2022 that spiked prices and fueled inflation as Americans binged on imported goods purchases coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic.

East Coast ports have invested billions of dollars over the past decade to expand capacity and while the temporary closure at Baltimore may add time and cost for some companies, economists do not expect a significant macroeconomic impact.

“The collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Maryland is another reminder of the U.S. vulnerability to supply-chain shocks, but this event will have greater economic implications for the Baltimore economy than nationally,” Ryan Sweet, chief U.S. economist at Oxford Economics, wrote in a note.

“We don’t anticipate that the disruptions to trade or transportation will be visible in U.S. GDP, and the implications for inflation are minimal,” he added.
NO SHIPS, NO WORK

The impact on the Port of Baltimore’s more than 2,000 workers who load and unload cargo vessels could be significant if the closure lasts more than a few days.

The dockworkers are day laborers, said Scott Cowan, head of the International Longshoreman’s Association Local 333 in Baltimore, meaning they only work when there is cargo to be moved. He estimated there might be about a week’s work clearing the existing inventory at the port.

“After that,” he said, “we’re dead in the water” with a collective $2 million a day in lost wages at stake.

The port directly generates over 15,000 jobs, with an additional 140,000 jobs dependent on port activity, according to Maryland Governor Wes Moore’s office.
RoRo VEHICLE PORT

One area of concern is higher shipment costs for imported cars and trucks and for exports of farm tractors and construction equipment as Baltimore is the largest U.S. port for “roll-on, roll-off” vehicle shipments, with over 750,000 cars and light trucks handled by state-owned terminals in 2023, according to Maryland Port Administration data.

Ford Motor Co F.N and General Motors GM.N said they would reroute some affected shipments but the impact would be minimal, while Volkswagen VOWG_p.DE is unaffected because its new Sparrows Point vehicles terminal is located at a former steel mill site on the bridge’s Chesapeake Bay side.

The risk of car price spikes is further dampened by a recovery in automotive inventories to their highest level since May 2020, after being drawn down sharply during the pandemic. The industry’s inventory-to-sales ratio is near its 32-year-average of 1.96 to 1 according to Census Bureau data, and sales incentives have risen in recent months as high interest rates dampen demand.
COASTAL SHIFT

Ryan Peterson, founder and CEO of logistics platform Flexport, said that with Baltimore handling only 1.1 million twenty-foot equivalent containers last year – ranking 12th in the U.S., any impact on container rates and shipping costs from the disruption would be far less than increases caused by cargoes diverted from the Suez Canal because of attacks on Red Sea shipping by the Houthi militant group in Yemen.

But the port outage could contribute to a shift of container traffic to West Coast U.S. ports that was already underway over the past several months because of the lack Asian shippers’ access to the Suez route and reduced capacity in the Panama Canal due to low water levels. Peterson said the potential for an East Coast longshoreman strike in late September – at the height of Christmas-season imports – also has some shippers considering West Coast shipments.

“East Coast volumes are down and there is the ability for those ports to flex up to handle this,” he said of the Baltimore disruption, adding that it’s “one more reason to think to start shifting volumes to the West Coast instead of the East.”

(Reporting by David Lawder; additional reporting by Daniel Burns and David Shepardson in New York; Editing by Stephen Coates, Reuters)

 

jward

passin' thru
gcaptain.com
US Army Deploys More Than 1,100 Specialists to Baltimore
John Konrad



by John Konrad (gCaptain) The U.S. Army has activated an emergency operations center for the Corps of Engineers (USACE) in Baltimore. This action mobilizes over 1,100 specialists in the fields of engineering, construction, contracting, and operations. These specialists will aid local, state, and federal agencies in responding to the recent collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge.

“Our thoughts are with those impacted by the tragic collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge,” said Baltimore District Commander Colonel Estee Pinchasin. “Our Emergency Managers are closely monitoring the incident and coordinating with partner agencies for any potential support requests.”

The Army also said it will leverage its mandate and federal authority to clear the Federal channel as part of a comprehensive interagency recovery initiative. Collaboration with local, state, and federal partners is underway to identify the best course of action for removing the fallen bridge.

Among the key resources being deployed, certified underwater assessment capabilities stand out, including services by Structural Professional Engineers who utilize Remotely Operated Vehicles and sonar technology to inspect and evaluate underwater structures thoroughly.

In addition to underwater assessments, the USACE is providing significant structural engineering support to ensure the safety and integrity of critical infrastructure. This support encompasses the deployment of certified bridge safety inspectors, alongside urban search and rescue structural technical specialists, who are tasked with evaluating and ensuring the stability and security of structures in and around Baltimore.
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers vessel Reynolds

Addressing the challenges posed by waterway debris, the USACE has deployed the debris removal vessel REYNOLDS to patrol the waters of the Baltimore Harbor and the Patapsco River and the CATLETT, a 61-foot hydrographic and topographic survey vessel. They will focus on the identification and removal of drift and debris that pose hazards to navigation, thereby ensuring safer and cleaner waterways for Baltimore’s residents and visitors alike.

Both vessels are based in Baltimore. The USACE has not specified when it will begin deploying vessels from other regions of the country, nor if it will activate Navy salvage assets or Maritime Administration Ready Reserve ships.

The Baltimore District of the Army Corps of Engineers operates and maintains more than 290 miles of federal navigable channels within the Susquehanna River watershed, including the Fort McHenry Channel.

 

somewherepress

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Interesting video.....

View: https://twitter.com/RichardStiller4/status/1772639173058482191


Golden Advice

@RichardStiller4

8X speed really exaggerates how sharp the Dali turned just before striking the bridge.


Embedded video

0:18


9:58 AM · Mar 26, 2024
 
Top