WAR FOX... SYRIA JUST STARTED MOVING OUT PARTS OF IT CHEM WEAPONS STOCKS

colonel holman

Veteran Member
www.foxnews.com/world/2012/07/13/us-concerned-as-syria-moves-chemical-stockpile/?test=latestnews

Syria has begun moving parts of its vast arsenal of chemical weapons out of storage facilities, U.S. officials said, in a development that has alarmed many in Washington, The Wall Street Journal reports.
The country's undeclared stockpiles of sarin nerve agent, mustard gas and cyanide have long worried U.S. officials and their allies in the region, who have watched anxiously amid the conflict in Syria for any change in the status or location of the weapons.
American officials are divided on the meaning of the latest moves by members of President Bashar al-Assad's regime.
Some U.S. officials fear Damascus intends to use the weapons against the rebels or civilians, potentially as part of a targeted ethnic cleansing campaign. But other officials said Mr. Assad may be trying to safeguard the material from his opponents or to complicate Western powers' efforts to track the weapons.
Some said that Mr. Assad may not intend to use the weapons, but instead may be moving them as a feint, hoping the threat of a chemical attack could drive Sunnis thought to be sympathetic to the rebels from their homes.
Whatever the motivation, the evidence that the chemical weapons are coming into play could escalate the conflict in Syria, some fear. "This could set the precedent of WMD [weapons of mass destruction] being used under our watch," one U.S. official said. "This is incredibly dangerous to our national security."
The Obama administration has begun to hold classified briefings about the new intelligence. U.S. officials are particularly worried about Syria's stocks of sarin gas, the deadly and versatile nerve agent. The officials wouldn't say where weapons have been moved


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/0...ical-stockpile/?test=latestnews#ixzz20WmQXdpm
 

Belties

Contributing Member
Sarin nerve agent, mustard gas? What do these weapons do and how are they used as weapons of mass destruction?
 

TorahTips

Membership Revoked
The program call "Rock Center" had a piece on last night about Syria. They actually had a reporter on the ground in Syria with the rebels. I don't know if it is really true (how do you really know) but the rebels seem to move around without interference at all from the Syrian army.

They say that they control the country except for the capital and the coast ports. The Syrian army is simply holding out those areas and have put all of their heavy equipment inside those areas.

If that is true then the situation is much farther down the road than I thought and it is probably closer to an end. This news would seem to support that claim. I think Assad will do bad things if he feels that he is going to lose. I don't think he will accept any kind of "peaceful" exile or anything like that.

He will use the WMDs against somebody.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Sarin is very deadly, and is persistent enough to kill hundreds easily in a very short period of time. It can be delivered by many means and in massive quantities very easily.

Mustard gas is very similar, and you can coat the ground with a battlefield area to disable and kill indiscriminately on demand.
 

CAgdma

Veteran Member
These chemical weapons are the ones that Saddam Hussein "didn't" have, that were observed by satellite to be moved into Syria as the US prepared to invade.

But everybody still blames Bush....because that Administration claimed Iraq had these WMD, went to war, couldn't find them, and we came away (again) with egg on the face of the USA.

Belties, Mustard Gas was used very effectively against people in WWII and maybe WWI, and Sarin is even more effective. Nerve Agents.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
well, that sucks,

but it's go nothing to do with us

Except for good or for ill, we have assets and personnel in the region. Also, Israel will act, or if too late, react in a way that might open a global portion of canned sunshine.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
These chemical weapons are the ones that Saddam Hussein "didn't" have, that were observed by satellite to be moved into Syria as the US prepared to invade.

But everybody still blames Bush....because that Administration claimed Iraq had these WMD, went to war, couldn't find them, and we came away (again) with egg on the face of the USA.

Yep.

Belties, Mustard Gas was used very effectively against people in WWII and maybe WWI, and Sarin is even more effective. Nerve Agents.

You have the wars backwards. Mustard was definitely used in WWI, it is what sent a certain problematic Austrian corporal to the infirmary after one battle. That's part of the reason his eyes looked so nutty - chemical burns.

I'm not sure about mustard being used in WWII, somebody probably did, I just don't recall that at the moment.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
The converse side is Syria really moving it's WMD around or is everyone just reporting that for a pretext for a strike that Obama desperately needs to revive his sagging campaign? If you were Assad would you pull out your chemical weapons knowing that it will be a trigger for military action against your regime? I don't trust this current crew in the beltway farther than I could throw them.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
The converse side is Syria really moving it's WMD around or is everyone just reporting that for a pretext for a strike that Obama desperately needs to revive his sagging campaign? If you were Assad would you pull out your chemical weapons knowing that it will be a trigger for military action against your regime? I don't trust this current crew in the beltway farther than I could throw them.

Here's the thing: It could be true, it may not be. Who really knows? But the results are what matter. The results we have to absorb. Real or Memorex, it's damn scary.
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
Yep.



You have the wars backwards. Mustard was definitely used in WWI, it is what sent a certain problematic Austrian corporal to the infirmary after one battle. That's part of the reason his eyes looked so nutty - chemical burns.

I'm not sure about mustard being used in WWII, somebody probably did, I just don't recall that at the moment.

Yep Mustard gas was used extensively in WWI but only isolated incidents in WWII as for WWIII we are yet to see , the Soviets were into gas in big way
 

Oreally

Right from the start
VX gas on Skuds too, probably.



on VX:

http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/vx/VX.htm



VX Gas

by Joe Lenthall, Magdalen College School, Oxford.

VX gas spheres in "The Rock" (Hollywood Pictures 1996)

VX gas is one of the most dangerous chemicals created. It is used in chemical warfare. In the film "The Rock", it was that green liquid that the terrorists threatened San Francisco Bay with.

VX gas was developed in the Porton Down Chemical Weapons Research Centre, Wiltshire, England in 1952 and its devastating effects were tested. The British traded the technology of VX with the United States of America for information on thermonuclear weapons.


Its chemical formula is CH3CH20-P(O)(CH3)-SCH2CH2N(C3H7)2 (Click here to view 3D structure) and is normally in its liquid state despite its name. It has a low volatility; is odourless and is an excellent adhesive. A special form has been developed that is so adhesive that it is virtually impossible to remove from the surface that it is in contact with. This leads to strategic attacks on enemy bases or airfields so that the VX remains stuck to the area and has the potential to kill any one attempting to use the base or airfield.

The "V" of VX signifies it long persistence. So it is more dangerous and toxic than its cousins of the "G" variety like GA (Tabun) and GB (Sarin), which dissipate quickly and have only short-term effects. In the liquid form of VX, it is absorbed through the eyes or the skin of the victim. It takes an hour or two to take effect and its effects result in death. The gaseous form is more deadly than the liquid form and acts almost immediately on the victim. The effects are worst when it is inhaled and death is an end to the suffering.

VX drawingThe LD50 can be as little as 10mg for humans. It operates by cutting off the nervous system. It binds to the enzyme that transmits signals to the nerves and inhibits them. Therefore the nerves become isolated and uncontrollable. The antidote, atropine, is a toxin itself but it counteracts the effect of the VX by removing it from the enzyme. It is an anti-nerve agent so does the reverse of the VX, a nerve agent. It is normally injected into the arm or thigh but for gaseous attacks the atropine must go immediately into the heart. So full body protection and gas masks are essential to avoid exposure in a VX missile attack.

VX has not been used to its fullest potential yet because it is too dangerous to use for local attacks with wind that could blow the VX back onto the base. This factor has helped to keep VX from being used to cripple local nations. If these weapons were launched against a nation then there would be the possibility of a nuclear counterattack because VX is a weapon of mass destruction that spreads from impact point killing all in its path. This would be countered by another, which in a lot of cases, would be a nuclear bomb. The only known countries to possess VX are U.S. France and Russia. England after inventing it abandoned the thought for thermonuclear warfare.
 

shinerbock

Innocent Bystander
Sarin nerve agent, mustard gas? What do these weapons do and how are they used as weapons of mass destruction?




As one thread noted, mustard gas is highly effective in open air combat and killed, maimed hundreds of thousands in WWII. Sarin gas , IIRC, is more devastating when employed in a closed environment. There was a Sarin gas attack on a Japanese subway train perhaps twenty years ago. The mustard gas blisters the skin and the eyes and can damage the lungs if inhaled. Sarin gas affects the nervous system.

sb
 

Bob1313

Membership Revoked

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
Sky News are reporting that its being moved to the Homs area ,

Both Sarin & mustard gas are nasty, Sarin was used by the Japense sect in the attack on the subways, and before that by Saddam against the Kurds and before that by Saddam against the Iranians in the Iran / Iraq war.

Mustard Gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_gas
Sarin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

I was going to mention the Kurds, read about it back in the 80's in SOF.

Saw the pics but those were likely photoshopped because Saddam *never* had that stuff you know but the Syrians *do*, of course-bet the Lefties will be calling for us to go in an save everyone from those WMD's stored over there in Iraq,,,errr, Syria....

Like I say...pull out a quarter, mark it with a 'D' on one side and an 'R' on the other and drop it in a shit-filled gumball machine and either side facing up is still giving you a shit-filled gumball.
 

Repairman-Jack

Veteran Member
Sky News are reporting that its being moved to the Homs area ,

Both Sarin & mustard gas are nasty, Sarin was used by the Japense sect in the attack on the subways, and before that by Saddam against the Kurds and before that by Saddam against the Iranians in the Iran / Iraq war.

Mustard Gas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_gas
Sarin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

Keep in mind the Sarin used in Tokyo we home grown, not "mil spec" even with it being "home grown" the failure with that attack was the delivery system

As a prep sight all members here should have if not a basic understanding of CBRNE threats or at least where to find the info.

The Emergency Response Guide imho is a must for EVERYONE here that preps as a way of life.

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/erg2012



Mustard - Blister Agent (Vesicant) - delayed effect, smells of garlic. Causes red buring skin, blisters, sore throat and dry cough, pulmonary edema, memory loss, coma, seizures. Treatment - Remove patient from area, remove comtaminated clothing. support airway, treat symptoms. Decon with copious amounts of water.

Sarin (GB) - Semi persistent, rapid onset, fruity smell. Symptoms headache, runny nose, salivation, PINPOINT PUPILS, shortness of breath/difficulty breathing, seizures. Treatment (civilian) remove from area, treat symptoms. DECON - Flush with water water water

Acronym to remember for Nerve agents is SLUDGEM

S. Salivation
L. Lacrimation (tearing eyes)
U. Urination
D. Defecation
G. Gastrointestinal Upset
E. Emesis (vomiting)
M. Miosis (constricted pupil)
 
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onetimer

Veteran Member
Intelligence has emerged suggesting the Syrian regime has moved chemical weapons to the Homs region, a source has told Sky News.

A senior British intelligence questioned about claims in the US that several streams of signal intelligence detailing the transfer of a chemical agent said they believed the account to be a "pretty accurate description" of what the UK believes is going on.

Fox News reported a senior US defence source as saying it was not clear wether the movement of the agent, possibly Sarin nerve gas, had been authorised by President Bashar al Assad or local Syrian military commanders frustrated by the ongoing uprising in Homs.

The agents, which may not yet have been weaponised, were moved from previously known stockpile locations, the report said.

Recent investigations by Sky News identified four sites where chemical agents are produced: Hama, Latakia, Al Safira, near Aleppo and at the Centre D'Etude et Recherche Scientifique laboratories in Damascus.

Storage sites were also found at Khan abu Shamat, Furqlus, Hama, Masyaf, Palmyra

The US source was quoted as saying the Pentagon is particularly worried because Sarin can be used and released in canisters so there may not be weapons per se involved.

Also Sarin does not remain in the air after an attack so a lot of people could die and the regime would have "plausible deniability" that it had used a chemical agent, the source added.

According to Middle Eastern and other intelligence sources, Syria has the biggest stockpiles of Sarin and VX nerve gas, as well as mustard gas, in the Middle East.

Sir Mark Lyall Grant, the UK Ambassador to the UN, told Sky News he was unable to confirm the reports.

But he added: "Clearly if there was an suggestion the Syrian regime might start using chemical weapons that would escalate things to a whole other level."

A single drop of Sarin the size of a pinhead can kill an adult. Some 13 commuters were killed when a religious sect released Sarin on the Tokyo metro system in 1995. A further 1,100 were injured.

Sky's US correspondent Dominic Waghorn said: "The word of caution you have to add is we've heard similar claims from Israel - concerns about Syria's chemical weapons - and we've heard similar claims being made in London as well.

"This is at a time when the West is trying to put pressure on Russia and China to rally around a concerted effort to remove Assad from power and anything that makes the situation in Syria look worse is possibly going to help that effort."

He added: "Although we know Syria does have weapons of mass destruction, unlike Iraq which was proven not to have had any after the conflict there, I think people listening to this will be sceptical of intelligence agencies talking about weapons of mass destruction."

Nations including Britain and America insisted that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction to justify the invasion in 2003. None were ever found.

The UN Security Council must now decide the future of the mission before July 20, when its initial 90-day mandate expires.

http://news.sky.com/story/959953/syria-military-moves-chemical-weapons-to-homs

Russia has proposed extending the mission for 90 days, but Britain, the United States, France and Germany countered with a draft resolution to extend the mission for just 45 days and place Annan's peace plan under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter.

Chapter 7 allows the council to authorize actions ranging from diplomatic and economic sanctions to military intervention.

But Russian Deputy UN ambassador Alexander Pankin said that Moscow was "definitely against" Chapter 7.
 

mt4design

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Keep in mind the Sarin used in Tokyo we home grown, not "mil spec" even with it being "home grown" the failure with that attack we delivery system

That's what I remember too.

IMHO, this is quickly becoming a worst case scenario with no good outcome except Assad surrendering those chemical weapons and I don't see that being his motivation for moving them.

Everyone downwind is at risk. If Israel or NATO were to strike, people would die from the attack and from the resulting chemical release.

This is degrading into a horror story of epic proportions.

Mike

ETA: Ah, I just came up with an alternate motive. Assad is surrendering his chem weapons to Iran. Iran will immediately distribute them to terror cells. They will then begin attacking targets globally...
 

homecanner1

Veteran Member
*heavy sigh*

searcher you said

Except for good or for ill, we have assets and personnel in the region. Also, Israel will act, or if too late, react in a way that might open a global portion of canned sunshine.

accept or except?

?

i agree that was a bit casual there undead...

this has potential to go cluster in a bad way, esp in wake of twitters suggesting airspaces are being flirted with

are some folks planning on storming a bastille or two?

prayers for all in decisionmaking capacities this wknd, how you react may change history
 

almost ready

Inactive
Don't know what the facts of the matter are, but the proclamation on Fox is troubling. It can only mean escalation. Otherwise, they wouldn't repeat it if the sarin gas was found on the White House Lawn. It's amazing what happens that doesn't get reported.
 

colonel holman

Veteran Member
any transfer of that stuff to hamas or hezbolla or any risk of that would trigger a highly intense violent response by Israel, even preemptively
 

dieseltrooper

Inactive
Alas-1993.jpg
 

Beelbill

Inactive
Actually, I suspect NO ONE is going to attack on revelation.

THis is one of them things where folks will wait and attack on verified initial use...
The UN and the USSA will wait (unless Emperor Obama plans to use this to his advantage), but Israel won't wait.
any transfer of that stuff to hamas or hezbolla or any risk of that would trigger a highly intense violent response by Israel, even preemptively
Absolutely!!!!!
We can't trust what our news stations say. Our news stations can't trust what or government says. Our government can't trust what our spies say. So we have no real idea what is going on. But you can bet that the Israelis know what is going on. If Syria is preparing to gas Israel, I don't think they will wait for initial use. They will blow them to allah. Never again will they passively be gassed.
 

Jazzdad

Veteran Member
I don't see Assad using chemical weapons. Perhaps moving them is to make sure the jihadi's don't git em.

If the Syrians are moving their stockpiles towards Homs, then they are moving the weapons closer to both Lebanon and Israel. Homs is only 50 miles from Tripoli and 100 miles from Northern Israel. The Israelis can only interpret this as a war mobilization.
 
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Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
www.foxnews.com/world/2012/07/13/us-concerned-as-syria-moves-chemical-stockpile/?test=latestnews

Syria has begun moving parts of its vast arsenal of chemical weapons out of storage facilities, U.S. officials said, in a development that has alarmed many in Washington, The Wall Street Journal reports.

"This could set the precedent of WMD [weapons of mass destruction] being used under our watch," one U.S. official said. "This is incredibly dangerous to our national security."

"...said one U.S. official...."

Yeah, dangerous to OBAMA's RE-ELECTION plans, if the mid-east goes up in smoke (chemical OR nuclear)....


I can't believe that with this on the world's plate, all this guy can THINK about is how it affects HIM ("OUR watch"...."OUR national security"...for I am SURE this un-named "official" is someone high up in Obama's camp)...



...no, wait.........yes I can, too...........
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
The accepted manner for disposal of chemical munitions today is in an incinerator at very high temperatures. If you're going to "take them out" and want to limit down wind exposure your options become very limited and encourage rapid escalation in the situation.
 

Tano

Contributing Member
Ok. Not sure where to put this. But just within the last 2 hours I have had at least 8 military helicopters fly low over my house heading towards Ellington Field (mil base southeast Houston). 5 flying first, then just now 3 more. I'm used to the jets flying over on their usual training days but not low flying copters and not that many. I don't know what kind they were, sorry but they were big. The first thing I thought of after I say this was the news on Syria. Lil freaked out right now.
 

CGTech

Has No Life - Lives on TB
things are escalating so fast, it almost makes one wonder if we will make it thru this weekend..
 
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