ECON Ford idling 8 factories for weeks in July and August due to semiconductor shortage

mecoastie

Veteran Member
Are you committed to the concept that it is just a temporary problem ?
Are you certain the supply train will come back as before in this environment ?
Are you comfortable with allowing the Asian chip manufactures returning to control chip supply again ?


Is there an alternative to chips ?
(Put Dennis back to work)

Bean counters are not always right !

I hope it is temporary because we are in trouble otherwise.

Bean counters arent always right but they are who run the world. No major company in the US is going to commit to making chips here unless they see a clear profit in it.

Then there is the logistics. Where are the raw materials going to come from? Where is the machinery to build the chips coming from? The desks for the employees? The list goes on and it all goes back to one or 2 countries. Even all the things currently manufactured here. How much of that machinery is from overseas?

Personally I would like to see it all brought to this country but I think for a lot of stuff it is too late. America has voted with their wallets for decades. Cheap stuff from China wins. And look where we are. The infrastructure required to bring it back will take decades to recover. We bulldozed our mills or turned them into apartments. We closed our mines. Most of that machinery is gone. Scrapped and shipped to China. Most important the knowledge and skill set is gone. Those miners, factory workers, and the industries that supported them are gone. Retrained, retired or dead. Couple that with the foolishness of all the environmental regulations, destruction of our energy sector and death of the blue collar industries and we are screwed.
 
Personally I would like to see it all brought to this country but I think for a lot of stuff it is too late. America has voted with their wallets for decades. Cheap stuff from China wins. And look where we are. The infrastructure required to bring it back will take decades to recover. We bulldozed our mills or turned them into apartments. We closed our mines. Most of that machinery is gone. Scrapped and shipped to China. Most important the knowledge and skill set is gone. Those miners, factory workers, and the industries that supported them are gone. Retrained, retired or dead. Couple that with the foolishness of all the environmental regulations, destruction of our energy sector and death of the blue collar industries and we are screwed.
"Cheap stuff from China" doesn't win when those imports are tariffed correctly. The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing with regards to tariffs - recall that the FF intended that federal revenues were to be generated from tariffs - not personal and corporate income taxes - which came into being at a much later date, circa 1913, along with the central banking system/Federal Reserve.


intothegoodnight
 
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packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Drove past the ford dealership this afternoon, lot is about 80% empty. They parallel parked the vehicles in lines to make it look fuller than it actually is, their inventory is so low that the now have rusted out vehicles on the front lot, those they used to hide behind the dealership.
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
"Cheap stuff from China" doesn't win when those imports are tariffed correctly. The Founding Fathers knew what they were doing with regards to tariffs - recall that the FF intended that federal revenues were to be generated from tariffs - not personal and corporate income taxes - which came along much later, circa 1913, along with the central banking system/Federal Reserve.


intothegoodnight
At this point it is water under the bridge. They werent tariffed correctly and our industries got decimated. China won. They got America hooked on the cheap stuff.
 

et2

TB Fanatic
Drove past the ford dealership this afternoon, lot is about 80% empty. They parallel parked the vehicles in lines to make it look fuller than it actually is, their inventory is so low that the now have rusted out vehicles on the front lot, those they used to hide behind the dealership.

Seen that this week at a Ford lot near us too.
 

West

Senior
At this point it is water under the bridge. They werent tariffed correctly and our industries got decimated. China won. They got America hooked on the cheap stuff.

IMO, only about 1% true.

Because 99% our industries got decimated by mandated payroll liabilities, prevailing wages and just general liability by way of frivolous lawsuits, and government getting/ruining the private healthcare system by mandate.
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Are you committed to the concept that it is just a temporary problem ?
Are you certain the supply train will come back as before in this environment ?
Are you comfortable with allowing the Asian chip manufactures returning to control chip supply again ?


Is there an alternative to chips ?
(Put Dennis back to work)

Bean counters are not always right !
Has been my experience that bean counters are only good at counting beans. That is fine as far as it goes. But turn off their spread sheets, they do not know squat about the businesses they are part of. They have no concept of the business model, customer relations, smoothness & efficiency of the operation, positive or negative consequences of their decision, etc, etc, etc. For example, I have seen a lg retail corporation pick out a new location, based only on the dollar amount of the location. Even if it is in a poor location for customers, difficult to deliver to, too small for operations, etc. When they could have picked a location just a short distance away, with none of those short comings, for just another 2 or 3 hundred a month.

When I was in the telephone industry, JIT was becoming all the rage. It was necessary that we maintain a certain amount of inventory of equipment & materials. Well, the counters wanted our local inventory reduced to zero. " You can order more when you need it ", but did not take into account how long it would take to get it. They acted like the factory was across the street. They did not take into account service outage when something "broke". Back then, in the telephone business, service was EVERYTHING ! Even though it was a monopoly at the time, they still worried about the Public Service Commission, and there was competition in the business world for intercompany switches, etc.
I tried to maintain inventory to take care of everyday useage, as well as be prepared for emergencies. Well, one of the counters was on me to get rid of stuff. So one day, we had an emergency. We had a local refinery, that was owned by a large oil company, a very BIG customer. The refinery had some construction going on, and a crane tore down some specialty cable, and tore out to special pole mounted switches. This caused the entire refinery to shut down. The bean counter came into my office, very worried, asking for the material. I told him sorry, but following his orders from two weeks ago, I had shipped that exact material out, and it was somewhere in the continental US. Yes, I could order more, but would probably take somewhere around 30 days to acquire. That would have cost the oil company millions of dollars. I told him that he could placate the oil company by telling them that his bean numbers looked good for the month, and the Pres of our company would be proud of him. He just looked like he was going to die. I knew I still had the stuff, but had to take the time to dig him a bit. He went back to his office. I called the warehouse and had them set the materials on a dock, then lined up a crew to pick up and go to the refinery to make the repairs.

When I left for the day, he was in his office, looking like he was seriously contemplating suicide, as he could see his career over, losing his pension, etc. I went in and told him it was OK. We had a conversation after which, he never, ever again bugged me about materials I kept in inventory. In fact, he never said another cross word to me.

Long story point being, he, like many bean counters, was being penny wise, and pound foolish. Never looking beyond for the unintended consequences, and preparing for same.

In terms of moving our production overseas. The useful idiots involved thought " yeah, we can save a nickel ". I think the big guys that orchestrated it knew, because short term they wanted the increase profit, but long term, they wanted to weaken the United States, and strengthen the commie countries that are playing them for fools !!

Sorry for such a long rant, but wanted to paint a fairly complete picture.

:ld:
 
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Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Has been my experience that bean counters are only good at counting beans. That is fine as far as it goes. But turn off their spread sheets, they do not know squat about the businesses they are part of. They have no concept of the business model, customer relations, smoothness & efficiency of the operation, positive or negative consequences of their decision, etc, etc, etc. For example, I have seen a lg retail corporation pick out a new location, based only on the dollar amount of the location. Even if it is in a poor location for customers, difficult to deliver to, too small for operations, etc. When they could have picked a location just a short distance away, with none of those short comings, for just another 2 or 3 hundred a month.

When I was in the telephone industry, JIT was becoming all the rage. It was necessary that we maintain a certain amount of inventory of equipment & materials. Well, the counters wanted our local inventory reduced to zero. " You can order more when you need it ", but did not take into account how long it would take to get it. They acted like the factory was across the street. They did not take into account service outage when something "broke". Back then, in the telephone business, service was EVERYTHING ! Even though it was a monopoly at the time, they still worried about the Public Service Commission, and there was competition in the business world for intercompany switches, etc.
I tried to maintain inventory to take care of everyday useage, as well as be prepared for emergencies. Well, one of the counters was on me to get rid of stuff. So one day, we had an emergency. We had a local refinery, that was owned by a large oil company, a very BIG customer. The refinery had some construction going on, and a crane tore down some specialty cable, and tore out to special pole mounted switches. This caused the entire refinery to shut down. The bean counter came into my office, very worried, asking for the material. I told him sorry, but following his orders from two weeks ago, I had shipped that exact material out, and it was somewhere in the continental US. Yes, I could order more, but would probably take somewhere around 30 days to acquire. That would have cost the oil company millions of dollars. I told him that he could placate the oil company by telling them that his bean numbers looked good for the month, and the Pres of our company would be proud of him. He just looked like he was going to die. I knew I still had the stuff, but had to take the time to dig him a bit. He went back to his office. I called the warehouse and had them set the materials on a dock, then lined up a crew to pick up and go to the refinery to make the repairs.

When I left for the day, he was in his office, looking like he was seriously contemplating suicide, as he could see his career over, losing his pension, etc. I went in and told him it was OK. We had a conversation after which, he never, ever again bugged me about materials I kept in inventory. In fact, he never said another cross word to me.

Long story point being, he, like many bean counters, was being penny wise, and pound foolish. Never looking beyond for the unintended consequences, and preparing for same.

In terms of moving our production overseas. The useful idiots involved thought " yeah, we can save a nickel ". I think the big guys that orchestrated it knew, because short term they wanted the increase profit, but long term, they wanted to weaken the United States, and strengthen the commie countries that are playing them for fools !!

Sorry for such a long rant, but wanted to paint a fairly complete picture.

:ld:

I've spent a lot of time unf***ing the brilliant ideas spawned by pencil pushing, cubicle dwelling, office fags.

Usually after telling them exactly why their self pronounced, brilliant ideas were stupid as hell...and being accurate in that projection.
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
I believe problem is deeper.

Working in Industry for 30 years I know that the issue was forewarned and there was ample time to start producing our own chips.

I'm hoping that some 25 year old MBA's have their nose rubbed in the profit loss ink for global supply and just in time inventory.

Or does it matter anymore ?


"Working in Industry for 30 years"

Was that Auto or Semiconductor industry?

It takes quite a while to get a Semiconductor chip plant up and running. Chip plants are very different factories than even precision assembly plant with 5-axis CNC, Precision powdered metal 3D printing and all that. The precision & accuracy required can very greatly depending on the types of chips. Microprocessor chips which require breathtaking precision that most here cannot even begin to imagine (billions of transistors on a thumbnail) or Analog and Mixed Signal chip plant, making amplifiers chips, OP Amps, Signal conditioning chips that require much less demanding Cleanrooms.

When I started in the industry (1995) there were over 350 chip plants (Fabs as they're called) within 10 years there was less than 10, my companies Fab closing down was a blow to Silicon Valley manufacturing. Nearly All Chip making in the USA was moved to China, Vietnam, So Korea, Malaysia back in the early to mid 2000's
 
Has been my experience that bean counters are only good at counting beans. That is fine as far as it goes. But turn off their spread sheets, they do not know squat about the businesses they are part of. They have no concept of the business model, customer relations, smoothness & efficiency of the operation, positive or negative consequences of their decision, etc, etc, etc. For example, I have seen a lg retail corporation pick out a new location, based only on the dollar amount of the location. Even if it is in a poor location for customers, difficult to deliver to, too small for operations, etc. When they could have picked a location just a short distance away, with none of those short comings, for just another 2 or 3 hundred a month.

When I was in the telephone industry, JIT was becoming all the rage. It was necessary that we maintain a certain amount of inventory of equipment & materials. Well, the counters wanted our local inventory reduced to zero. " You can order more when you need it ", but did not take into account how long it would take to get it. They acted like the factory was across the street. They did not take into account service outage when something "broke". Back then, in the telephone business, service was EVERYTHING ! Even though it was a monopoly at the time, they still worried about the Public Service Commission, and there was competition in the business world for intercompany switches, etc.
I tried to maintain inventory to take care of everyday useage, as well as be prepared for emergencies. Well, one of the counters was on me to get rid of stuff. So one day, we had an emergency. We had a local refinery, that was owned by a large oil company, a very BIG customer. The refinery had some construction going on, and a crane tore down some specialty cable, and tore out to special pole mounted switches. This caused the entire refinery to shut down. The bean counter came into my office, very worried, asking for the material. I told him sorry, but following his orders from two weeks ago, I had shipped that exact material out, and it was somewhere in the continental US. Yes, I could order more, but would probably take somewhere around 30 days to acquire. That would have cost the oil company millions of dollars. I told him that he could placate the oil company by telling them that his bean numbers looked good for the month, and the Pres of our company would be proud of him. He just looked like he was going to die. I knew I still had the stuff, but had to take the time to dig him a bit. He went back to his office. I called the warehouse and had them set the materials on a dock, then lined up a crew to pick up and go to the refinery to make the repairs.

When I left for the day, he was in his office, looking like he was seriously contemplating suicide, as he could see his career over, losing his pension, etc. I went in and told him it was OK. We had a conversation after which, he never, ever again bugged me about materials I kept in inventory. In fact, he never said another cross word to me.

Long story point being, he, like many bean counters, was being penny wise, and pound foolish. Never looking beyond for the unintended consequences, and preparing for same.

In terms of moving our production overseas. The useful idiots involved thought " yeah, we can save a nickel ". I think the big guys that orchestrated it knew, because short term they wanted the increase profit, but long term, they wanted to weaken the United States, and strengthen the commie countries that are playing them for fools !!

Sorry for such a long rant, but wanted to paint a fairly complete picture.

:ld:
Could not have said above, better.

This is PRECISELY the same issue that was occurring in IT - used to be that the individual who successfully aspired into a CTO (chief technology officer) or CIO (chief information officer - corporations will have one, or the other) slot "upstairs" more often came into that senior management position with a background of having "fought in the trenches" of IT 101, on their way to their senior IT management room slot. Having such an individual in the CxO suite with a fundamental understanding of the internal operations of IT organizations was always valuable - they would help keep the rest of the CxO bunch from creating rampant "unintended consequence" mayhem within the fast-evolving world of IT - since the rest of the CxO folks were all business-backgrounded, and typically did not really understand the rapid evolution of IT, nor how to vector to/maximize their corporate IT assets, capabilities and solutions.

Somewhere around Y2K, corporations started filling CTO/CIO slots with "business" majors, who did not have the fundamental "in-the-trenches" IT experience (shades of the military leadership during the Vietnam War).

The trouble with many CxO folks is that their position has become a mostly political function/perspective, first - "wokeness" being only the most recent example of such - the top level management, who were yesteryear's technicians and engineers, and who use common sense, tech experience and training as they navigate the technical domain/playing field, are few and far between - or, are not in enough senior corporate positions to make a difference.

What the public perceives, in many cases, is some sort of limp-wristed upper management/leadership that pays too much attention to the quarterly reports and not enough to their markets/customers.

And then, functioning as senior management, there is the very significant issue of trying to herd cats . . .


intothegoodnight
 
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Old Gringo

Senior Member
"Working in Industry for 30 years"

Was that Auto or Semiconductor industry?

It takes quite a while to get a Semiconductor chip plant up and running. Chip plants are very different factories than even precision assembly plant with 5-axis CNC, Precision powdered metal 3D printing and all that. The precision & accuracy required can very greatly depending on the types of chips. Microprocessor chips which require breathtaking precision that most here cannot even begin to imagine (billions of transistors on a thumbnail) or Analog and Mixed Signal chip plant, making amplifiers chips, OP Amps, Signal conditioning chips that require much less demanding Cleanrooms.

When I started in the industry (1995) there were over 350 chip plants (Fabs as they're called) within 10 years there was less than 10, my companies Fab closing down was a blow to Silicon Valley manufacturing. Nearly All Chip making in the USA was moved to China, Vietnam, So Korea, Malaysia back in the early to mid 2000's

I have not been involved with the chip industry. Perhaps I should read up ?

There is still a burning question

Nearly All Chip making in the USA was moved to China, Vietnam, So Korea, Malaysia back in the early to mid 2000's

Was this a good decision by an industry whose production was stalled?

I'm still standing by my opinion;

"A multi-billion dollar production facility shut down trying to save a buck.... resulting in loosing a bunch of bucks ?"

Addendum:
After reading later posts, apparently I'm preaching to the choir.
 
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I have not been involved with the chip industry. Perhaps I should read up ?

There is still a burning question

Nearly All Chip making in the USA was moved to China, Vietnam, So Korea, Malaysia back in the early to mid 2000's

Was this a good decision by an industry whose production was stalled?

I'm still standing by my opinion;

"A multi-billion dollar production facility shut down trying to save a buck.... resulting in loosing a bunch of bucks ?"

Addendum:
After reading later posts, apparently I'm preaching to the choir.
NO - it was NOT a good idea to ship chip production overseas.

There was a time when the national security state considered IC chip production as a fundamental CONUS strategic capability - can recall how there was a kerfuffle between "the Pentagon/MI" strategic war-planner types, and American chip producing corporations who wanted to maximize their ROI/stockholder value by shipping their IC chip production overseas - at the center of the argument was the Motorola 68000 CPU, and other such (for the time) sophisticated IC chip products - circa late 1980s. A bit later, maybe in the late 1990s/early 2000s, there was another such "argument" between "the Pentagon" bunch and the game console folks - apparently, one of our "enemies" of that day had bought a bunch of a certain game console, and had redeployed them to become missile targeting systems of some sort or another - the game consoles had the onboard horsepower/sophisticated chips which made them quite adept at their new assignment/use.


intothegoodnight
 
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