Fruit Elderberry question.

[Coulter]

I have a large patch of elderberries that don't produce well because they are way to close together.

Maybe next year (if there is one) I will dig some of them up and replant.

But for now do you think it would help if I cut all those 2 feet or so around the one I'm hoping will do better?

Thanks

 

[Freeholder]

No personal experience here, but I found some websites that may help:

Growing Elderberries: A Complete Guide on How to Plant, Grow, & Harvest Elderberries

Elderberries are making a comeback as a favorite in jams, pies and in wine. Learn how to succeed at growing elderberries in your garden.

morningchores.com

How to Grow American Elderberry

Learn how to grow the American elderberry, otherwise known as black elderberry, with these helpful tips on planting, maintenance, and more.

www.thespruce.com

Ultimate Guide to Growing Elderberry in Your Home Garden

Interested in growing elderberries and elderflowers in your garden? This comprehensive guide to growing elderberry contains everything you need to know about how to grow elderberries in your own backyard, including elderberry growing conditions, elderberry

www.healthygreensavvy.com

 

[Murt]

I have found them to be very easy to propagate from cuttings--they root very well

I would suggest that you thin and fertilize and irrigate them --but I am no expert either

 

[Coulter]

I have found them to be very easy to propagate from cuttings--they root very well

I would suggest that you thin and fertilize and irrigate them --but I am no expert either

If I thin I will be disturbing the roots of the one's I want.

There are probably 500 out there - I'm just looking for a stop gap till next year.

 

[Coulter]

No personal experience here, but I found some websites that may help:

Growing Elderberries: A Complete Guide on How to Plant, Grow, & Harvest Elderberries

Elderberries are making a comeback as a favorite in jams, pies and in wine. Learn how to succeed at growing elderberries in your garden.

morningchores.com

How to Grow American Elderberry

Learn how to grow the American elderberry, otherwise known as black elderberry, with these helpful tips on planting, maintenance, and more.

www.thespruce.com

Ultimate Guide to Growing Elderberry in Your Home Garden

Interested in growing elderberries and elderflowers in your garden? This comprehensive guide to growing elderberry contains everything you need to know about how to grow elderberries in your own backyard, including elderberry growing conditions, elderberry

www.healthygreensavvy.com

Thanks - one of the above said they should be 6 to 10 feet apart - mine are 6 inches to a foot.

I'm just looking for a gut feel if my idea might help - I can't decide.

 

[Freeholder]

If you have that many plants, I suspect you are right that cutting some out that are too close together will help. They probably also need the old stems pruned, because those won't produce fruit this year and will just be in the way.

The other thing I'm wondering is whether you have more than one parent plant there, or if they are all clones of the original? If the latter, they won't pollinate as well as they should, and you might need to bring in another unrelated plant for pollination.

Kathleen

 

[Murt]

If I thin I will be disturbing the roots of the one's I want.

There are probably 500 out there - I'm just looking for a stop gap till next year.

If it were me I would try some aggressive pruning on maybe every other plant and see what happens

 

[FireDance]

If it were me I would try some aggressive pruning on maybe every other plant and see what happens

Lol. You sound like me. If something isn’t doing well I cut the crap out of it. Everyone screams “you’re killing it!” Then I literally give whatever it is a good thwaph and tell it to grow.

They always do. As the older man I used to call Skyfarmer would say, (he always looked into the sky before answering a plant question) “they’ll com’ on.”

But seriously, I do this to the sick,dying and healthy plants like a mad woman and have not had a serious problem yet despite warnings.

I will say you have to be careful SOMETIMES and not cut everything that needs to be cut at one time, but most of it’s just common sense.

Your elderberries? Don’t know a thing about them, but don’t think you would have the die back you fear by thinning. If I were very worried, I would take some and root them and then put in pots later. You probably won’t need them, but you can sell/give them away next year.

Just my .02. I’d read/watch YouTube and see what they say just because, but if you have that many plants, I can’t see the harm in trying different things. But I would maybe leave some untouched just because. (Probably not necessary though.)

Honestly? I think SummerThyme has hit it on the head.

Keep us posted. I always love a good plant mystery.

 

[dioptase]

If the plants really do need that severe a thinning, but you don't want to disturb a certain plant (or plants), then as a stopgap (until you can safely dig) I would just prune the closest ones (to the keeper) down to the ground. Beware that you don't trip over any bits left sticking up from the ground! Later (in the fall?) you can dig/thin and transplant as desired, or you can take cuttings this spring/summer and start new plants.

 

[summerthyme]

Elderberries spread by underground runners,.. if you don't dig or cut back at ground level all those sprouts/suckers, you'll end up with a massive jungle, and much of it won't produce.

I'd wade in there with some surveyors tape, and mark the best shoots that are 1-2 years old. Cut out all older stems (elderberries produce best on 2-3 year old wood), and then cut back everything that is crowding your selected plants. They will grow back! This isn't a once and done deal... they need pruning at least every other year, but in rich soil, they will go crazy very quickly.

Once you start getting it under control, it will be easier to maintain. But that first adventure can be interesting!

Summerthyme

 

[Coulter]

If you have that many plants, I suspect you are right that cutting some out that are too close together will help. They probably also need the old stems pruned, because those won't produce fruit this year and will just be in the way.

The other thing I'm wondering is whether you have more than one parent plant there, or if they are all clones of the original? If the latter, they won't pollinate as well as they should, and you might need to bring in another unrelated plant for pollination.

Kathleen

They were planted by my renter 15 years ago - he planted them with the plan in mind to sell the berries to a local winery. At the time I had 300 peach trees and he was the guy who showed me how to prune them. So I'm sure he planted pollinators. Hopefully they are part of the mess as well.

 

[Coulter]

Elderberries spread by underground runners,.. if you don't dig or cut back at ground level all those sprouts/suckers, you'll end up with a massive jungle, and much of it won't produce.

I'd wade in there with some surveyors tape, and mark the best shoots that are 1-2 years old. Cut out all older stems (elderberries produce best on 2-3 year old wood), and then cut back everything that is crowding your selected plants. They will grow back! This isn't a once and done deal... they need pruning at least every other year, but in rich soil, they will go crazy very quickly.

Once you start getting it under control, it will be easier to maintain. But that first adventure can be interesting!

Summerthyme

Thanks - as said above I didn't plant them - and had no interest in them but couldn't bring myself to kill them off. Over the years I have bush hogged them a few times. You are right about the way they spread. Two years ago I mowed them over pretty seriously. But last year they had few berries. If cutting around a few of them helps get somewhat of a small crop this year I will dig up a bunch of them in fall for transplanting in a much better location - most of the time they are an eyesore where they are. My wife complains about them all the time.

A few years ago I had several truck loads of wood chips dumped in from of them (not for their benefit but to be used elsewhere) - for them the decomposing wood chips were like gasoline on a fire.

 

[Cardinal]

They were planted by my renter 15 years ago - he planted them with the plan in mind to sell the berries to a local winery. At the time I had 300 peach trees and he was the guy who showed me how to prune them. So I'm sure he planted pollinators. Hopefully they are part of the mess as well.

Wow. Do you still have all those peach trees?

 

[Coulter]

Wow. Do you still have all those peach trees?

I said 15 years ago but it was probably closer to 20 and no all are dead but one. In Kansas they say and it's my experience as well most peach trees only live 12 - 15 years. I have heard of people in other parts of the country where peach trees live longer, but not here. They were delicious - NOTHING - like what you buy in stores. The difference is like a store bought tomato and one you grow. And like most of my ideas - it wasn't worth it and worked me to death. IMO the real problem with peaches is for ultimate taste they have to be almost over ripe on the tree and the great taste is NOT there if you pick them much before that. I made lots of mistakes with them. I planted 20 different varieties and I went for showy flowers vs not. When they were all blooming it was pretty spectacular as well.

 

[Cardinal]

I said 15 years ago but it was probably closer to 20 and no all are dead but one. In Kansas they say and it's my experience as well most peach trees only live 12 - 15 years. I have heard of people in other parts of the country where peach trees live longer, but not here. They were delicious - NOTHING - like what you buy in stores. The difference is like a store bought tomato and one you grow. And like most of my ideas - it wasn't worth it and worked me to death. IMO the real problem with peaches is for ultimate taste they have to be almost over ripe on the tree and the great taste is NOT there if you pick them much before that. I made lots of mistakes with them. I planted 20 different varieties and I went for showy flowers vs not. When they were all blooming it was pretty spectacular as well.

Yeah, I agree with the ripeness factor affecting taste. I just planted two trees. I hope to get some good fruit from them.

 

[Coulter]

Yeah, I agree with the ripeness factor affecting taste. I just planted two trees. I hope to get some good fruit from them.

Good luck - all of my 300 were standard trees not semi dwarfs. I planted 5 semi dwarfs (Lowes) 4 years ago and haven't had any luck with them so far - can't figure it out.

But most standard trees have their first crop (smaller of course) when 3 years old.

 

[Murt]

Good luck - all of my 300 were standard trees not semi dwarfs. I planted 5 semi dwarfs (Lowes) 4 years ago and haven't had any luck with them so far - can't figure it out.

But most standard trees have their first crop (smaller of course) when 3 years old.

I prefer the standard varieties on most of my fruit trees ---it is getting harder to find many varieties on standard rootstock
I have started trying to learn grafting ---it is kind of fun --my success rate is only about 60-70 percent
I have grafted fruiting pears onto bradford pear trees with good results and I grafted regular apples onto some older wild crabapple trees

 

[Cardinal]

Good luck - all of my 300 were standard trees not semi dwarfs. I planted 5 semi dwarfs (Lowes) 4 years ago and haven't had any luck with them so far - can't figure it out.

But most standard trees have their first crop (smaller of course) when 3 years old.

OK, now I gotta go check and see what kind I bought.

 

[Coulter]

I prefer the standard varieties on most of my fruit trees ---it is getting harder to find many varieties on standard rootstock
I have started trying to learn grafting ---it is kind of fun --my success rate is only about 60-70 percent
I have grafted fruiting pears onto bradford pear trees with good results and I grafted regular apples onto some older wild crabapple trees

That is just another adventure I would like to try, if I lived another 40 years. Every year I try different things in my garden - and have for over 40 years. I should have made a gardening journal, that way I wouldn't have forgotten most of them.

 

[Coulter]

OK, now I gotta go check and see what kind I bought.

Last year my trees did have peaches on them and I thought finally - but the deer's wiped them out.
Maybe raccoons as well - I shot one out of apple tree.

One thing to remember is that if it is a good year with a good crop, you have to - knock a lot of baby peaches off - unless you want golf ball sized peaches. If I recall correctly, rule of thumb is 5 leaves per peach but check on that.

I used to have a bat wrapped in foam that I used to whack the limbs - knocking off baby peaches - first time I did it - it was heart breaking. 100's peaches off a mature tree covering the ground.

 

[Murt]

That is just another adventure I would like to try, if I lived another 40 years. Every year I try different things in my garden - and have for over 40 years. I should have made a gardening journal, that way I wouldn't have forgotten most of them.

that's me---I try to do something different every year

 

[Murt]

Last year my trees did have peaches on them and I thought finally - but the deer's wiped them out.
Maybe raccoons as well - I shot one out of apple tree.

One thing to remember is that if it is a good year with a good crop, you have to - knock a lot of baby peaches off - unless you want golf ball sized peaches. If I recall correctly, rule of thumb is 5 leaves per peach but check on that.

I used to have a bat wrapped in foam that I used to whack the limbs - knocking off baby peaches - first time I did it - it was heart breaking. 100's peaches off a mature tree covering the ground.

I had a young peach tree --Carolina Belle--wonderful peach
The second year I had about 18-20 large beautiful peaches
I picked a few and they were awesome
There were about 12-15 left and I was letting them stay on the tree for 2 more days
The day that I was going to pick them I came home and they were gone---I was pissed at my neighbor UNTIL I went out to the tree and saw a pile of peach pits laying on a rock near the tree--squirrels
So I got out the 17 and had fried squirrel

 

[Cardinal]

Ok, I have two Contender peach trees, self pollinating, full height 10 to 15'.
One is planted. It is 5' now, I snipped off the tiny fruits to let it get rooted.
Will plant the other one and my fig tree tomorrow.