HEALTH Doing without health insurance due to Obama(not)care

[SageRock]

My long-standing health insurance policy for catastrophic coverage was canceled earlier this year due to the Obama(not)care requirements. I'd had this individual coverage for several years, but not quite long enough for it to be maintained as a "grandfathered" policy. It had a $10,000 deductible, and I paid $161.00 per month for the policy during the last year it was in effect. The new, compliant policies on offer to me in my county were absolutely unaffordable, with the cheapest being $550.00 per month with a $6000.00 deductible.

I made a decision to do without health care insurance. The amount of money required was simply out of the question for me, as I rarely go to the doctor and use almost no prescriptions. It was very scary for me initially, as I had made sure to maintain health insurance consistently for the last 30 years, either through a full time job, or through individual coverage when I worked freelance. There is no way that I would have voluntarily given up health insurance coverage.

However, now that I have, and several months have gone by, I find that I feel a lot freer not dealing with the insurance company. I used to get very nervous about making sure that the premium was paid as early as possible, and now it's all completely irrelevant.

I'm outside the system, and it actually feels kind of good.

If true catastrophic health insurance became available again, I might participate, but as for the current system, I just feel like leaving it alone.

I'm curious to hear about other members' experiences in this area. I've seen quite a few posters say that they are doing without health insurance. It's a very individual decision, and a lot depends on the specific circumstances that someone is facing. For me, I did pray about this for several months, asking for guidance, and the message that I consistently received was that I didn't need to do anything at all about the insurance -- that I should just let it go.

 

[Freeholder]

I've got Christian Healthcare Ministries, which is a medical share program open to Christians. There are others. My membership costs around $150/month just for me, and it's basically catastrophic coverage.

Kathleen

 

[Deena in GA]

We've been without health insurance for about two years now. It was extremely scary at first since we've always had insurance. Now I don't even think about it, unless something is said about insurance. If we can ever afford it again, I'm hoping to go with something like Kathleen is talking about. Next year hubby should be eligible for Medicare (if we can afford that).

 

[Be Well]

DH and I don't have any health insurance; I had some when my kids were young, some kind of cheapie state kind for poor families. DH got on Kaiser for a year once and it was useless. He didn't bother again (they wouldn't take me, they didn't like my health history). I will be eligible for Medicare soon but I'm not going to bother. We're very poor and cannot afford any doctoring besides the most basic. My current POV is I try to take care of our health with good diet, herbs, and exercise (well, he does, I'm working on that...) and hygiene, staying away from sick people, care to avoid accidents and the like. Other than that - in God's hands, and when it's time to leave the mortal coil, so be it.

If things change and something happens and we can afford some health insurance then I won't mind, but it would have to be some really giant change.

 

[Angel Guardian]

Haven't had insurance either can't afford it.

 

[ainitfunny]

Perhaps it should be renamed "Obamacareless?"

 

[amarilla]

SageRock,

Don't forget you are fined if you don't have health insurance. You didn't mention your income but it goes up pretty rapidly in the next few years.

I'm not saying you didn't make the right decision. I'm just reminding everyone that not paying for health insurance also has a cost enforced by the IRS.

A

 

[Giblin]

IIRC they can only collect the fine for no insurance from any IRS refunds. I'm not expecting any refund.

 

[xtreme_right]

SageRock,

Don't forget you are fined if you don't have health insurance. You didn't mention your income but it goes up pretty rapidly in the next few years.

I'm not saying you didn't make the right decision. I'm just reminding everyone that not paying for health insurance also has a cost enforced by the IRS.
A

If it's more than 8% of your income, you can be exempted. We live in a rural area and the cheapest is 11% of our income and it's catastrophic insurance too. There's paperwork you need to do but once you're accepted for the exemption, they will give you a number to put on your taxes so you're not charged the penalty. It took several months for me to get it approved.

 

[Kathy in FL]

IIRC they can only collect the fine for no insurance from any IRS refunds. I'm not expecting any refund.

That may not be strictly true. There is a loophole that may be exploited. IF they get a tax lien and judgment against you for owing a "tax" then at that point they can take you to court and/or freeze your bank account and/or seize other assets. No one is quite sure which way they will jump but I'm betting they'll go for the whole enchilada and get the judgment then head into asset seizure. They've really been doing that a great deal lately. It is also one of the reasons why the IRS was given so much power over your bank account in the Ocare law itself.

 

[rafter]

DH was diagnosed with COPD and Pulmonary Fibrosis, at the first of the year. We started just paying out of pocket since we don't have insurance. Landing in the ER right off the bat of course made a good sized bill. No way could we then buy O's insurance and pay a high deductible and pay off the ER bill, and specialist bills on just my income since he could no longer work and was waiting for SS disability to come through. So now we continue paying off the bills out of pocket and are going to be slammed with the penalty too. What a load of crap. DH has another 12 months before he can get medicare. I am going to retire at 62 in May. On unemployment till then.

 

[Melodi]

The real problems with not being insured (and I saw lots of this even 20 years ago) is the bankruptcy that will occur the first time someone in the family does get seriously ill or sick; now sometimes you can get a debt written off (I did) by simply saying "Ok, just give me such and such paperwork I'll go down to the bankruptcy court now and file." I had worked as a temp there and I knew exactly what to do, that was over a claim that should have been covered by worker's compensation but got denied (they wanted paperwork they didn't ask for at the start and was impossible for the doctor to "recreate"). I felt bad for the medical practice but I didn't have thousands and thousands of dollars either.

So, if you don't own any property they really can't do much to you; though in the past (I don't know about the current rules) they could deny you care for anything that wasn't in urgent danger of death, even in the ER. If you own property they can drag you through the courts and put liens on your home; again a bankruptcy is often the way to go because much of the time a family dwelling can be off limits especially if it is all or mostly paid for.

Still, I can totally understand suddenly not having over 500 a month and 6,000 paid out first; for health care coverage - that isn't really coverage that's extortion. Which is why I still think the US would have been better off trying for a REAL form of universal, actually tax supported care (not an insurance company fantasy backed by government decree).

 

[Faroe]

No health insurance here.
As far as the IRS goes, I don't own anything they can take.
These people deal in fear, and I'm not playing their game.

Screw 'em.

 

[WalknTrot]

My long-standing health insurance policy for catastrophic coverage was canceled earlier this year due to the Obama(not)care requirements. I'd had this individual coverage for several years, but not quite long enough for it to be maintained as a "grandfathered" policy. It had a $10,000 deductible, and I paid $161.00 per month for the policy during the last year it was in effect. The new, compliant policies on offer to me in my county were absolutely unaffordable, with the cheapest being $550.00 per month with a $6000.00 deductible.

I made a decision to do without health care insurance.

Aren't you eligible for the Obamacare subsidy?

 

[SageRock]

SageRock,

Don't forget you are fined if you don't have health insurance. You didn't mention your income but it goes up pretty rapidly in the next few years.

I'm not saying you didn't make the right decision. I'm just reminding everyone that not paying for health insurance also has a cost enforced by the IRS.

A

Yes, that's true. As it happens, I have no income this year. For some reason, I felt unmotivated to work in order to pay for other people to have healthcare insurance coverage when mine had been forcibly taken from me. (I know, I probably would qualify for an exception this year due to the cancellation.) There were other reasons, too, but so far this year I've just been reducing expenses as much as possible and living on my savings. I might go back to work next year; perhaps the new Congress will eliminate the health insurance tax for those not covered.

One coverage I was able to add (and this is actually true insurance) was healthcare coverage through my auto insurance policy to cover me in the remote case of injury through an auto accident. It's pretty inexpensive and was fairly easy to add. That's because it's true underwriting -- they know my vehicle and my driving history, and it's for a fixed maximum amount, selected by me.

 

[SageRock]

No health insurance here.
As far as the IRS goes, I don't own anything they can take.
These people deal in fear, and I'm not playing their game.

Screw 'em.

My sentiments exactly. They deal in fear, and it's "no sale" here.

 

[SageRock]

Aren't you eligible for the Obamacare subsidy?

No, I worked hard last year, and I made too much money to qualify for the subsidy. I don't want to get involved with these people. I think it's like a tar baby, and I don't want to create that connection.

 

[SageRock]

I've got Christian Healthcare Ministries, which is a medical share program open to Christians. There are others. My membership costs around $150/month just for me, and it's basically catastrophic coverage.

Kathleen

Thanks for the info. I might check on that possibility.

 

[packyderms_wife]

I have cadillac health care through hubbies work, we pay about $650 a month for coverage, 2K deductible but they always find a way to not cover stuff.

 

[UselessEater2]

DH and I don't have any health insurance; I had some when my kids were young, some kind of cheapie state kind for poor families. DH got on Kaiser for a year once and it was useless. He didn't bother again (they wouldn't take me, they didn't like my health history). I will be eligible for Medicare soon but I'm not going to bother. We're very poor and cannot afford any doctoring besides the most basic. My current POV is I try to take care of our health with good diet, herbs, and exercise (well, he does, I'm working on that...) and hygiene, staying away from sick people, care to avoid accidents and the like. Other than that - in God's hands, and when it's time to leave the mortal coil, so be it.

If things change and something happens and we can afford some health insurance then I won't mind, but it would have to be some really giant change.

Not a Wise Decision…

If you are eligible for Medicare (not Medicaid) and you don’t have employer funded health insurance, you’re a fool to not sign up. The cost for Part B in 2015 is $104.90 which is deducted from your monthly Social Security check. Part D Medicare covers most prescription drugs and you sign up for these through a Medicare Advantage Plan. The additional cost of the Part D varies by State and plan. I have Blue Cross here in Indiana and the monthly cost for 2015 is $56.00.

Yes, these are 80/20 plans, put I’ve found after numerous surgeries, hospital stays, etc. that my portion wasn’t that high. As a matter of fact, all the hospitals have worked with me on paying off my balances at no interest. I've been on Medicare since 2006 due to sever physical disabilities.

The following is from the Medicare web site…no link, but you can Google it…

What does Medicare Part A cover?
What's covered?
Medicare covers services (like lab tests, surgeries, and doctor visits) and supplies (like wheelchairs and walkers) considered medically necessary to treat a disease or condition.

If you're in a Medicare Advantage Plan or other Medicare plan, you may have different rules, but your plan must give you at least the same coverage as Original Medicare. Some services may only be covered in certain settings or for patients with certain conditions.

What does Medicare Part B cover?
What's covered?
Medicare covers services (like lab tests, surgeries, and doctor visits) and supplies (like wheelchairs and walkers) considered medically necessary to treat a disease or condition.

Part B covers 2 types of services

• Medically necessary services: Services or supplies that are needed to diagnose or treat your medical condition and that meet accepted standards of medical practice.
• Preventive services: Health care to prevent illness (like the flu) or detect it at an early stage, when treatment is most likely to work best.
You pay nothing for most preventive services if you get the services from a health care provider who accepts assignment.

 

[Medical Maven]

That may not be strictly true. There is a loophole that may be exploited. IF they get a tax lien and judgment against you for owing a "tax" then at that point they can take you to court and/or freeze your bank account and/or seize other assets. No one is quite sure which way they will jump but I'm betting they'll go for the whole enchilada and get the judgment then head into asset seizure. They've really been doing that a great deal lately. It is also one of the reasons why the IRS was given so much power over your bank account in the Ocare law itself.

Looks like it is "strictly true" to me. I have seen the same information from other sources. Don't let the IRS scare you. If you have planned it so you are not getting a refund, you can say F YOU to OBUMMER, PELOSI, and REID.

When It Comes to Health-Care Reform, the IRS Rules
Mark Koba | @MarkKobaCNBC
Monday, 6 May 2013 | 10:13 AM ET
CNBC.com
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100711119


Get ready for the Internal Revenue Service to play a dominant role in health care. When Obamacare takes full effect next year, the agency will enforce most of the laws involved in the reform—even deciding who gets included in the health-care mandate.

"The impact of the IRS on health-care reform is huge," said Paul Hamburger, a partner and employee benefits lawyer at Proskauer.

"Other agencies like Social Security will be checking for mistakes, but the IRS is the key enforcer," Hamburger said. "It's also going to help manage who might get health care."

In its 5-4 ruling last year, the Supreme Court upheld the law's mandate that Americans have health insurance, saying that Congress can enforce the mandate under its taxing authority and through the IRS.

As a result, the agency has to administer 47 tax provisions under Obamacare. They include the right to levy a penalty against businesses and individuals who don't provide or acquire insurance. Noting that the IRS will collect the penalties, the decision labeled them a tax.

The IRS also has to determine how to distribute annual subsidies to 18 million people who make less than $45,000 a year and thus qualify for subsidies in buying health coverage, as well as how to deliver tax credits to small businesses that buy coverage for workers.

In addition, the agency will collect taxes on medical devices and a Medicare surtax on people making more than $200,000 a year, as well as conducting compliance audits of tax-exempt hospitals.

The financial burden for all this IRS enforcement is expected to total $881 million for fiscal years 2010 through 2013, according to the Treasury Department.

But former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman told Congress last year that he would need another $13.1 billion for the job in 2014. It's uncertain as to whether the funds will be forthcoming from Congress, which has cut the IRS's budget in each of the past two years.

One step the IRS has taken on health-care exchanges is drawing another round of lawsuits that accuse it of forcing more people into the system.



Each state has been offered the chance to set up its own health-care exchange to allow residents to buy insurance at lower cost and with some financial assistance. If states choose not to set up an exchange, the federal government will run them.

Twenty-six states have said they will not set up their own exchange; seven others have opted to help organize them but not fund them. Because the exchanges are federally funded, residents in those 33 states would not be eligible for federal subsidies. But the IRS stated last year that they would be eligible for health-care premium subsidies.

Individual and small business owners coordinated by the Competitive Enterprise Institute filed suit against the decision in federal court in Washington last week. It contends that the ruling would force more businesses and people (who would probably be exempt from the mandate without the subsidies) into buying health insurance and subsequent penalties if they failed to purchase it.

The agency has not responded to the lawsuit.

"The IRS has a lot on its hands when it comes to Obamacare," Hamburger said. "There will be some rough spots ahead. There really hasn't been anything like this in decades in terms of sweeping reform legislation."



It's not clear if the IRS is to blame for one rough spot that has been encountered.

Saying that it can't meet the 2014 deadline, the Obama administration is delaying parts of the program intended to provide affordable coverage to small businesses and their workers. Instead of a marketplace with choices in the 33 states with federally run exchanges, small businesses will be limited to a more costly single plan until 2015.

What the IRS can actually enforce also seems a difficult question.

The law severely limits the agency's ability to collect penalties. It can ask for the money, but there are no civil or criminal penalties for refusing to pay it. The IRS cannot seize bank accounts or dock wages to collect it. No interest accumulates for unpaid penalties.The law allows the IRS to withhold tax refunds to collect the penalty but only if someone overpaid taxes.

And the IRS is still working on procedures for taxpayers to prove they have insurance.
Some of Obamcare is in effect. Parents can keep their children on their health insurance plans until age 26. The 2.3 percent tax on those making more than $200,000 to help pay for Medicare expansion is also on the books.

Upcoming provisions include that insurers cannot refuse coverage for preexisting illnesses, as well the individual and business mandates.

An estimated 27 million people will be eligible for health care by 2017, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That kind of number is going to put the IRS on the firing line, Hamburger said.


"They are preparing for it, but it's going to be tough to say the least," Hamburger said. "To know for sure if the IRS will be ready to handle in 2014 is hard to guess. But health-care reform is not going away, so they better be as ready as possible."

 

[Freeholder]

This is probably off-topic (at least slightly) but I was talking to a lady the other day who owns a medical billing business. She has had to downsize her office and let at least one employee go due in part (major part) to Obamacare. She said that hospitals are getting paid way more than private doctors or clinics for the same procedures, sometimes two and three times as much (and of course a hospital does it's own billing, so no business for the medical billing business). She said the end result of this will be that private doctors and clinics will mostly go out of business, leaving the hospitals as the only health care available for most people. This should make it easier for the government to eventually have total control over all healthcare, which is, of course, their goal.

Just something to think about while we are the topic of medical stuff.

Kathleen

 

[Kathy in FL]

MM, while this is being reported until I see an actual case where the IRS is prevented from getting a judgment and then acting on it I'm putting in my caution/danger file. That isn't to say that I'm "afraid" of the IRS but I do have a hefty concern about their bull in a china shop practices. They already close and seize bank accounts now based on nothing more than "suspicion and/or unexplained activity." You have to go to court to get the funds returned/released and it is a long, drawn out, expensive process. We were told by several tax accountants that when the IRS can't do something under one definition they often practice the "suspicious activity" routine/excuse.

Since there is no penalty against the IRS, it is no big deal for them to simply circumvent the specifics of the law and get the non-insurance covered person another way. We know a lady in our community to whom this is happening to. She owns a small restaurant that does not accept checks and/or credit ... very small hole in the wall type place. She only hires part time workers and does not offer them bennies despite the pressure she was under to do so. She fired one person because they wouldn't shut up about demanding she provide health insurance. She also had to stop carrying the insurance policy she had carried through the business for her family because it violated some something or other about Ocare. Apparently the person she fired reported her shortly thereafter as she suddenly started getting a lot of calls. Next thing she knows her bank account has been seized for "suspicious activity" and she is getting very little cooperation from the IRS who are the ones who seized the funds and had the account closed. Now no other bank will touch her. The account was corporate not sole proprietor and was in excess of ten years old.

So, I basically don't believe anything that the IRS and/or the people that put the supposed "protections" into the law. I'm not scared of the IRS, but I'm not stupid either. If they want what you have they will find a loophole or some other jargon to create chaos in your life. My motto is always be prepared. Take that however you want to.

Please also note that it says that it "severely limits" ... it does not say that it is completely prevented from happening depending upon circumstances. Symantics count.

 

[Irish]

We lived for 10 years with no insurance. At that time a a policy was over $500/mo for the family and I figured that we only spent $1000 or less a year on medical, so it was a no brainer to save $5000/year. Over the 10 years DH finally got on medicare from his disability, so that covered the time he was in the hospital for kidney stones. Kids stayed healthy - a few office calls. I had a fall and went to the hospital and they negotiated it down to a few hundred we could pay. The doctor had a plan for uninsured (office call was less) and that worked for us. Over all, we saved a huge amount of money by NOT being insured.

I have said this before here. Right now DH has us covered under his work, BUT if it gets too expensive, we will drop it and DH has the VA and I "could" go on medicare (I will be 65 this summer). I will NOT pay for Ocare.

 

[Medical Maven]

Kathy,

I have thought of the repercussions, (audits, etc.), but until people expect the law to be the law and act that way, TPTB will keep stealing a march on our inalienable rights.

The law was written that way for a reason. It was written that way in order to get it passed. I fully expect them to uphold the letter of the law, and if they do not, I will deal with that when it happens.

Finally, Freedom is not Free. We all will have to take some arrows one way or another in order to get this country back. The IRS does not have the resources to overcome even partial Civil Disobedience in regards to this one small matter.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Remember Sage, the purpost of Obamacare was not to actually provide health insurance. The purpose was actually wealth transfer from the producers of this country to the GIBSMEDATS. Further, it was a total government-funded subsidy for Big Insurance.

 

[Dennis Olson]

until I see an actual case where the IRS is prevented from getting a judgment and then acting on it


I have read recently where the IRS *CAN* "take" your tax refund to cover the fine. And I'm quite certain they'd do this in a hot second.

 

[Medical Maven]

Remember Sage, the purpost of Obamacare was not to actually provide health insurance. The purpose was actually wealth transfer from the producers of this country to the GIBSMEDATS. Further, it was a total government-fundent subsidy for Big Insurance.

It was an illegitimate Jam Through, done by hook and crook, (mostly crook). If any act ever deserved the most extreme disdain that could be applied, this would be the one.

 

[Kathy in FL]

Kathy,

I have thought of the repercussions, (audits, etc.), but until people expect the law to be the law and act that way, TPTB will keep stealing a march on our inalienable rights.

The law was written that way for a reason. It was written that way in order to get it passed. I fully expect them to uphold the letter of the law, and if they do not, I will deal with that when it happens.

Finally, Freedom is not Free. We all will have to take some arrows one way or another in order to get this country back. The IRS does not have the resources to overcome even partial Civil Disobedience in regards to this one small matter.

I agree. I also think that the fed gov thinks it is above the law and will act however they feel is appropriate and call it a good and reasonable reaction to those that are already breaking the law by not having insurance. My reason for carrying insurance has nothing to do with Obama and the mandate and everything to do with the fact that hubby and I are taking precautions against being bankrupted by a health issue ... we currently cover four of our kids aged 22 down to 10 as well as hubby and I who are 50 and 48 respectively. Our family has some significant "mal" health history on both sides. For us it is commonsense since we can afford it ... just like with auto insurance, life insurance, property insurance, and our physical preps. Other people may be in a different situation.

So since I am prep-minded I refuse to be blind to the probability of the fed gov (IRS as the enforcer) circumventing the law to address law breakers (those who do not carrying insurance as mandated).

 

[Medical Maven]

I agree. I also think that the fed gov thinks it is above the law and will act however they feel is appropriate and call it a good and reasonable reaction to those that are already breaking the law by not having insurance. My reason for carrying insurance has nothing to do with Obama and the mandate and everything to do with the fact that hubby and I are taking precautions against being bankrupted by a health issue ... we currently cover four of our kids aged 22 down to 10 as well as hubby and I who are 50 and 48 respectively. Our family has some significant "mal" health history on both sides. For us it is commonsense since we can afford it ... just like with auto insurance, life insurance, property insurance, and our physical preps. Other people may be in a different situation.

So since I am prep-minded I refuse to be blind to the probability of the fed gov (IRS as the enforcer) circumventing the law to address law breakers (those who do not carrying insurance as mandated).

I agree that every situation is different. Some are better placed to fight the good fight on this issue as well as on the Second Amendment which could someday be repealed (for all intents and purposes) by a Progressive Supreme Court. And then the "mandated law" would have you handing in your firearms at the point of a gun, if necessary. This out-of-control government has to be reined in. We have waited too long. It is time for those who can make a stand to DO IT.

The "ten per cent" CAN win.

 

[medic38572]

Sage rock,
Can I give you one example of why having something is better then nothing. Me being the manly man we all are with relative health problems. HTN and non insulin diabetes I to never went to the Dr's office except to get a script for my med's decided to have an all out HTN crisis with severe chest pain and stroke level BP. I spent a week in MICU had a cardiac catheterization renal catheterization renal scans heart scans to make sure proper function. Was on six blood pressure med's that didn't help much except over the period of a week they dropped the BP from 230/130 to 150/100 this was including the IV drug Carden. Which normally helps many in this situation. Nothing that they could find hinted to any reason why my BP had decided to try and kill me. All my labs were fairly normal nothing showed any damage. To this day I am on six BP meds per day. Up from the 1 I initially started with. My BP is fairly steady now at 150 / 70's or 80's.

What I am saying is that until I was 45 I normally declined health care insurance unless it came with the job. I always had a reason not to want it but it boiled down to money and how expensive it was. I was lucky that it was cheap enough for me when I had this incident. Because when the bills came and were shown for one week I owed almost around 70000. For 5 days. I was thinking to myself how thankful I was to have taken the insurance out. How screwed I would have been if I hadn't! I skated by with no bad issues or complications for myself and or family not having insurance but in the end I had it when I needed it the most. Just something to think about. The older you get the harder it will be.

 

[Be Well]

Remember Sage, the purpost of Obamacare was not to actually provide health insurance. The purpose was actually wealth transfer from the producers of this country to the GIBSMEDATS. Further, it was a total government-fundent subsidy for Big Insurance.

And a way to totally control peoples' personal lives, children, take guns away, and ultimately, euthanize the "unwanted".

 

[Be Well]

Kathy,

I have thought of the repercussions, (audits, etc.), but until people expect the law to be the law and act that way, TPTB will keep stealing a march on our inalienable rights.

The law was written that way for a reason. It was written that way in order to get it passed. I fully expect them to uphold the letter of the law, and if they do not, I will deal with that when it happens.

Finally, Freedom is not Free. We all will have to take some arrows one way or another in order to get this country back. The IRS does not have the resources to overcome even partial Civil Disobedience in regards to this one small matter.

And not just the IRS doesn't have the resources. The march towards tyranny cannot continue if, as you said, even 10% of the population become "refuseniks".

 

[SageRock]

Remember Sage, the purpost of Obamacare was not to actually provide health insurance. The purpose was actually wealth transfer from the producers of this country to the GIBSMEDATS. Further, it was a total government-fundent subsidy for Big Insurance.

Yes, that's definitely true. Other "features" of the law are to mandate electronic medical records (to be sent to the feds at HHS, as part of our "privacy"), and the elimination of the ability of private individuals to order their own routine medical tests. It used to be that you could walk into a lab and order a panel of routine tests for yourself. There were also self-test kits in the drugstores. Now they're basically gone. Everything has to go through the medical "Borg" and be electronically recorded. It's veterinary care for domesticated animals, not medical care for thinking, reasoning human beings.

They want to control everything and know everything about us. They're not God, and even God grants free will.

All of this is contrary to Natural Law and will eventually fail, of that I'm sure. The only unknown is the degree of chaos that will occur between now and then.

 

[TimeTraveler]

I simply post the following as a FYI. I'm sure many already know this.

There is another concern about going without healthcare insurance. If you have assets the Government can "see", you will loose them. If you have a house, newer cars or any bank account, one trip to the emergency room of any Hospital will wipe you out and force you into bankruptcy.

 

[Richard]

I was just wondering, I expect you've been into it, when I worked at Unum (UK) they had a critical illness policy, if you got one of the illnesses listed they paid out a lump sum, can you get that in the US with O Care.

If you had a car accident would the auto insurance cover medical bills.

Can you get accident insurance to cover injury etc.

 

[Josie]

Hubby and I HAD a decent health insurance policy. It covered what we needed pretty well and the price tag fit our budget. Then came O care and our policy was deemed not good enough. It didn't have maternity or birth control. I've had a total hysterectomy and last I checked my husband can't get pregnant, so what would we need those for? They don't offer anything like what we did have. The closest policy we could find was waaay beyond our capability to pay for. So now, we are stuck with a catastrophic policy that won't even kick in until one of us acquires $12K in medical debt ($24K for a couple)! So basically, we are paying through the nose for NOTHING!!!

Doctor friend of mine has told me that there has been a HUGE increase in uninsured in his practice. He also said that if a patient comes in and wants to make a deal (cash for service) he will usually take it and the fee is discounted because he doesn't pay someone to deal with insurance companies.

My 33 year old son has opted out of the insurance game. He said he would have to get a second job to pay the premiums! He is generally very healthy, has it worked out so that he gets very little in income tax refunds and only owns his fifteen year old car (the love of his life). Cheaper by far for him to take the penalty. My gut is telling me that this is the road many young and healthy are taking. And this was the group that they were planning on carrying the load as far as paying for this mess.

 

[Richard]

not sure if this is the place to raise this point, at the start of O care I predicted that it would mean an increase in the percentage of GDP that would be payable towards healthcare as a whole to fund the additional uninsured persons on top of the 16 or 17% already paid. I think Kris reckoned that although there would be a redistribution of cost, there would not be an increase overall in the cost of healthcare provision for the USA as a whole.
Now that O Care has been implemented and all I see are massive increases in insurance costs for most self employed people and tax subsidies to others, are there any stats on the total cost of healthcare to the country.