ILL IMM District Judge: Gun Ban For Illegal Immigrant Unconstitutional

[Intestinal Fortitude]

District Judge: Gun Ban For Illegal Immigrant Unconstitutional

U.S. District Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman decided against a federal ban on gun ownership for illegal immigrant Heriberto Carbajal-Flores.

www.breitbart.com

District Judge: Gun Ban For Illegal Immigrant Unconstitutional​

On March 8, 2024, U.S. District Judge Sharon Johnson Coleman decided against a federal ban on gun ownership for illegal immigrant Heriberto Carbajal-Flores.

The case at hand centered on Carbajal-Flores, who was “charged with possession of a firearm while illegally or unlawfully in the United States.” He had a handgun in his possession “in the Little Village neighborhood of Chicago, Illinois,” on June 1, 2020. He was charged for being a non-citizen in possession for a firearm.

Carbajal-Flores sought twice, unsuccessfully, to have his indictment removed. But in his third attempt, a decision in the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and the Supreme Court of the United States’ Bruen (2022) decision, resulted in a different outcome.

Coleman, a Barack Obama appointee, countered government arguments against Carbajal-Flores’ firearm possession by noting:

The government argues that Carbajal-Flores is a noncitizen who is unlawfully present in this country. The Court notes, however, that Carbajal-Flores has never been convicted of a felony, a violent crime, or a crime involving the use of a weapon. Even in the present case, Carbajal-Flores contends that he received and used the handgun solely for self-protection and protection of property during a time of documented civil unrest in the Spring of 2020.

Coleman ultimately concluded, “The noncitizen possession statute, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(5), violates the Second Amendment as applied to Carbajal-Flores. Thus, the Court grants Carbajal-Flores’ motion to dismiss.”

The case is United States v. Carbajal-Flores, No. 1:20-cr-00613 in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.

 

[AddisonRose]

Well hell, what's good for him should be good for the rest of us.

 

[Intestinal Fortitude]

. . .they have NO Right to be here yet they can have arms?

does "someone" want them armed?

Can they cross the border with arms?

Illegal aliens are criminals
Criminals are not allowed to legally possess firearms

Not a citizen? can’t buy a gun.
Brought it across the border? Illegal importation of fire arms.
Bought it on the street? Illegal purchase, no background check

 

[Echo 5]

This country has lost its mind.

 

[Old Greek]

This country has lost its mind.

This country is run by communists!

 

[Josie]

Obama nominee. "Nuf said.

 

[L.A.B.]

This country has lost its mind.

A very long time ago. It is just becoming very in our face evident for the purpose of pushing people to react.

Almost 30 years ago I complained about the ‘loaded’ questions on the REvised 4473’s.

I saw the illegal alien loophold, complained about it on two-So-Cal 50 KW AM radio shows. ‘The Terry Andersen Show, and another called ‘It’s not about guns, it’s about freedom.’

My complaint pointed out the potential for creating a legal militia, from a pool of illegal aliens, in the face any Congress denying a 2A to legal citizens.

Like it or not…

Believe it or not…

Within 90 days that 4473 dropped the loaded question B-$

I did not study contract law. I had to take my HS English class over again in night school to graduate.

Something happened between being a kid in a world full of rose colored glasses, and becoming a prepped man in a world of half full glasses.

If we’re going to be Americans. We’re not gonna hold back that throttle until just into the first curve, then punch it out.

WHOOO-YAH!

WHAT A RUSH!

 

[Elza]

Well hell, what's good for him should be good for the rest of us.

Don't bet on it. TPTB want them here. They only want us dead.

 

[BornFree]

Illegals have nothing more than certain basic rights. IMO they have no constitutional rights because they are not citizens and do not fall under the protection of the constitution. Now instead of just having an invasion by invaders. The courts are giving them the right to invade and carry arms.

Just crazy. Insanity.

 

[L.A.B.]

The right of the people…

The tyranny of the citizen under contract.

 

[Wyominglarry]

if a non citizen can buy and own a gun then anyone can. Felons can buy and own all the guns they want.

 

[Southside]

Time to play Cowboys and (*)
* Insert your favorite enemy here

 

[Doc1]

It amazes me that anyone still has any respect for the American "just us" system or even loyalty to the country. The US Department of Justice constantly brings canted/tilted cases to trial which either unjustly hurt citizens or act leniently towards members of the protected classes.

People have been convicted and harshly sentenced for items as innocuous as making a mistake on Federal firearms paperwork or unknowingly possessing some minor technical item. Here we have a case of an illegal alien who broke numerous firearms laws in the process of acquiring and carrying a firearms and yet, he gets the kid glove treatment!

I have often heard attorneys and different laymen refer to the US justice system as being "the best in the world." Frankly, from where I sit, I can't see it.

Best
Doc

 

[Macgyver]

On the 4473 form.

Question d, are you a fugitive from justice.
If your illegal you are a fugitive.

Question 12 c, are you an alien illegally or a unlawfully in the United States
Can't answer no to that one either.

But reading the article seems that this is revolving around possession not purchase.

 

[Lone_Hawk]

. . .they have NO Right to be here yet they can have arms?

does "someone" want them armed?

Can they cross the border with arms?

Illegal aliens are criminals
Criminals are not allowed to legally possess firearms

Not a citizen? can’t buy a gun.
Brought it across the border? Illegal importation of fire arms.
Bought it on the street? Illegal purchase, no background check

Here we have a case of an illegal alien who broke numerous firearms laws in the process of acquiring and carrying a firearms and yet, he gets the kid glove treatment!

Gentlemen, the argument will be presented that he was not convicted of any of those crimes. So, until convicted, they do not apply. They will also ignore the fact that they DO apply to a citizen, even if not convicted. But wait, there's more!

Question d, are you a fugitive from justice.
If your illegal you are a fugitive.

Question 12 c, are you an alien illegally or a unlawfully in the United States
Can't answer no to that one either.

See my comment above and then let's throw in a legal twist here. Now, you have to look at this from their view point. They will say that Bruen applies here. Actually, I'm surprised that they haven't gone there yet. Follow me on this.

From the OP:

But in his third attempt, a decision in the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and the Supreme Court of the United States’ Bruen (2022) decision, resulted in a different outcome.

They have tied Bruen to his illegal status in this ruling. If one looks at the historical record, Carbajal-Flores could have walked back and forth across the Texas/Mexican boarder without anyone saying even one word about it. He could even settle, raised a family, buy land, start a business, work for anyone he wanted. And there would have been no legal repercussions. This is the gateway drug, er, I mean ruling, to "legalize" all illegal aliens because for X number of years he could have just come in, with a firearm, and no one would say a word until he committed a crime AND was convicted for it.

Watch, that is where they are going with this.

 

[BadMedicine]

I haven't read all the replies but YES, THEY GOT IT RIGHT.

The right to self defense is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. The fact he is here illegally is the problem. No, having a gun doesn't make the crime you are doing worse, unless you are using the gun to threaten/ coerce/ hurt people, or are threatening assaulting or hurting people, with the gun as backup...

But Just having a gun does not make the misdemeanor of jaywalking worse. Or tax evasion. Or reckless driving. It is inanimate and not connected to the crime.

THE REAL CRIME... IS BEING ILLEGAL. For that he should be thrown in jail (gun taken ) or deported.

We should crack down on the ILLEGALS and ship them out. but no, our feckless, blind, bias, incompetent, overbloated, leviathan of govt has NO RIGHT telling ANYONE they cannot protect themselves. FJB. {spit}

 

[BadMedicine]

On the 4473 form.

Question d, are you a fugitive from justice.
If your illegal you are a fugitive.

Question 12 c, are you an alien illegally or a unlawfully in the United States
Can't answer no to that one either.

But reading the article seems that this is revolving around possession not purchase.

Thats to buy a gun, from an FFL. Which the fed have been successful in coopting the process of buying new guns.. AND WE LET THEM...

But none of those questions are in the Bill of Rights or the declaration of independence.... They are not law. They have actually be adjudicated as NOT LOAW, and you can actually LIE on that form LEGALLY due to the adjudications. The "Have you ever been convicted of a felony" questions ACTUALLY MEANS IN EFFECT AND ADJUDICATION ..... are you within 10 years of the end of jail or probation or conviction.. That law RESETS AUTOMATICALLY 10 years after you are 100% free from state supervision... you don't see that on the first page, do you? FY FJB. FY BHO. FY BJC

 

[Wyominglarry]

I am glad I live in a free state. I cannot imagine how scared people must feel when going out of their homes for groceries. Some illegal high on drugs with a gun and hates people just decides to start shooting.

 

[Dobbin]

. . .they have NO Right to be here yet they can have arms?

They can speak freely without restraint.

They can live where they want and travel without restraint.

They can go to the house of worship of their choice.

They can vote (depending on the district who chooses to violate Constitutional Law) and a DOJ case will not be pursued to counter this.

I.e. they have all the "rights & privileges" you have - plus a few more because they are them and not you - Serf.

Dobbin

 

[Cardinal]

if a non citizen can buy and own a gun then anyone can. Felons can buy and own all the guns they want.

That comes next, Just watch.

 

[ssbn642blue]

They can speak freely without restraint.

They can live where they want and travel without restraint.

They can go to the house of worship of their choice.

They can vote (depending on the district who chooses to violate Constitutional Law) and a DOJ case will not be pursued to counter this.

I.e. they have all the "rights & privileges" you have - plus a few more because they are them and not you - Serf.

Dobbin

Uh, not where I live. If they take that test, they will fail. And they will not continue to ... Welcome to the Pissed off American.

 

[night driver]

bad medicine has the right answer in this situation.

It's a NATURAL LAW question and the right to self-defense IS a Natural Right.

I encourage you NOT to argue this too hard because almost literally EVERYTHING you bring up will bounce back onto you.

 

[Lone_Hawk]

bad medicine has the right answer in this situation.

It's a NATURAL LAW question and the right to self-defense IS a Natural Right.

I encourage you NOT to argue this too hard because almost literally EVERYTHING you bring up will bounce back onto you.

Actually, I'm not disagreeing with the ruling in this case. If it is the law, prosecute it, or get rid of the law. We have too damn many laws on the books.

 

[Toosh]

and just think ... he probably had an attorney at taxpayer expense. How much did this case cost you and I? I reckon a bunch.

 

[dstraito]

The REAL crime is being a law maker and sponsoring this shit

 

[TFergeson]

I haven't read all the replies but YES, THEY GOT IT RIGHT.

The right to self defense is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. The fact he is here illegally is the problem. No, having a gun doesn't make the crime you are doing worse, unless you are using the gun to threaten/ coerce/ hurt people, or are threatening assaulting or hurting people, with the gun as backup...

But Just having a gun does not make the misdemeanor of jaywalking worse. Or tax evasion. Or reckless driving. It is inanimate and not connected to the crime.

THE REAL CRIME... IS BEING ILLEGAL. For that he should be thrown in jail (gun taken ) or deported.

We should crack down on the ILLEGALS and ship them out. but no, our feckless, blind, bias, incompetent, overbloated, leviathan of govt has NO RIGHT telling ANYONE they cannot protect themselves. FJB. {spit}

You got it right BM. This is a forest through the trees moment. Big picture. As soon as there is court precedent restricting the inherent right of self defense to only "citizens", watch how fast we undesirables lose our "citizenship" and therefore by court precedent, our right of self defense.

 

[ainitfunny]

Well, as long as illegals can have them they cant ban citizens from guns! ( Sarc/off )

 

[anna43]

Entering the country illegally is a felony. Felons are not allowed firearms. Doesn't matter what the felony is, felons are not allowed firearms and having them is in and of itself a felony.

 

[vector7]

. .they have NO Right to be here yet they can have arms?

does "someone" want them armed?

 

[Jeff B.]

Let’s start with this correction to how this judge (and the judiciary) sees things, the Constitution does not apply to an illegal alien, who by definition is a criminal.

 

[Matt]

This is no longer the country of your youth. The Constitution has been null and void for some time!

The legal system is broken beyond repair. At this point, the more armed folks in society, the better. The bad actors already have guns, so should everyone else!

The real villain in this is the cops.. they continue to give the corrupt legal system teeth....

 

[Hognutz]

 

[SmithJ]

Coleman ultimately concluded, “The noncitizen possession statute, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(5), violates the Second Amendment as applied to Carbajal-Flores. Thus, the Court grants Carbajal-Flores’ motion to dismiss.”

And there is the problem. The constitution as applied to an illegal alien.

 

[vector7]

Coleman ultimately concluded, “The noncitizen possession statute, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(5), violates the Second Amendment as applied to Carbajal-Flores. Thus, the Court grants Carbajal-Flores’ motion to dismiss.”

Elections have consequences.

And so do invasions.

They're not supposed to be one in the same.

But alas they've become the same through human amorality.

John Adams quote
“Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” Morality and virtue are the foundation of our republic and necessary for a society to be free.

The Communist Democrats know this. Their plan has always been to overwhelm the system to corrupt America's foundations with a broken amoral population, wholly inadequate to be trusted with any freedoms. So they can remove the portions of the Constitution that keeps them from holding permanent power and Totalitarian Rule in DC.

 

[Bps1691]

“ Coleman, a Barack Obama appointee, ”

Says it all.

The invaider was charged in chi-Congo for goodness sake.

That’s the same “state” where the demo controlled house and senate passed the bill to strip actual citizens of THEIR God given right memorialized in the constitution as the 2nd amendment. The fat elitist leftist goobernator signed it. The state leftist controlled Supreme Court ruled it was 100% fine by them.

But somehow the invader has rights to carry,,,,

 

[Publius]

Whose side is this judge on any way? We do not give illegal aliens full constitutional rights just for being here.
On top of that this judge must be living with their head stuck in the sand and unaware of what's going on today with street gangs of illegal aliens poping up in our biggest city's and law enforcement cannot keep up with it.

 

[Intestinal Fortitude]

The Communist Democrats know this. Their plan has always been to overwhelm the system to corrupt America's foundations with a broken amoral population, wholly inadequate to be trusted with any freedoms. So they can remove the portions of the Constitution that keeps them from holding permanent power and Totalitarian Rule in DC.

Cloward & Piven